14.1 question

[asn130]

since i don't play the game, i don't know.

Is it legal to call a safety & shoot a ball in the pocket? If so, does it spot?

thanks

[mullyman]

Yes, you can call safety and pocket the ball and you are correct, the ball does spot up.
MULLY

[Bob Jewett]

... Is it legal to call a safety & shoot a ball in the pocket? If so, does it spot?

thanks
As Mully pointed out, this is a legal play and sometimes a good way to play safe. In the 14.1 league I play in, it is used too often, I think. Usually it is used when there is a full 14-ball rack, and often in those situations, it is better to play the ball for a point and then play an into-the-rack safe, but you have to know those safes.

[mullyman]

I agree with Bob that it's better to get the point out of the shot and then play safe but here is one situation where you may want to make the ball and have it spotted. I've come up short on my side pocket break shot. I could pocket that ball and fly around the table for the break but I don't like letting the cue ball go loose like that. It could easily scratch in the other side pocket or come off the side rail, hit the rack and scratch in the corner.....not to mention totally missing the rack and scratching in the other corner. With a shot like this I prefer to make the ball and rest the cue ball on the end rail and let my opponent play safe from there.
MULLY
click on page 2 for the end result

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AYxB4BCpA3CCYA4DCpe4EFbe3FChe4GBjO4HAMA4IAEe3JF Se4KEMO3LBKO3MDvO4NBal3OBJl4PJWl4UYxB1UeGA4kJWl4kW UB1kbWG1kRtk@4AALV4BCpA3CCYA4DCpe4EFbe3FChe4GBjO4H AMA4IAEe3JFSe4KEMO3LBKO3MDvO4NBal3OBJl1PRtk@

[Mike the Bike]

Sometimes it helps to move a ball from a break shot to a behind the rack hidden ball.

[Bob Jewett]

I agree with Bob that it's better to get the point out of the shot and then play safe but here is one situation where you may want to make the ball and have it spotted. I've come up short on my side pocket break shot. I could pocket that ball and fly around the table for the break but I don't like letting the cue ball go loose like that. It could easily scratch in the other side pocket or come off the side rail, hit the rack and scratch in the corner.....not to mention totally missing the rack and scratching in the other corner. With a shot like this I prefer to make the ball and rest the cue ball on the end rail and let my opponent play safe from there.
MULLY
click on page 2 for the end result

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AYxB4BCpA3CCYA4DCpe4EFbe3FChe4GBjO4HAMA4IAEe3JF Se4KEMO3LBKO3MDvO4NBal3OBJl4PJWl4UYxB1UeGA4kJWl4kW UB1kbWG1kRtk@4AALV4BCpA3CCYA4DCpe4EFbe3FChe4GBjO4H AMA4IAEe3JFSe4KEMO3LBKO3MDvO4NBal3OBJl1PRtk@
Well, except you leave the standard response to this shot which is to play the cue ball one cushion off the foot rail to the four ball. At least try to leave the cue ball on the center line of the table so that a two-cushion shot is required for the foul safe or your opponent can try for the Crane/Mosconi skim-the-side safe.

[mullyman]

Well, except you leave the standard response to this shot which is to play the cue ball one cushion off the foot rail to the four ball. At least try to leave the cue ball on the center line of the table so that a two-cushion shot is required for the foul safe or your opponent can try for the Crane/Mosconi skim-the-side safe.

HAHAHAHA!!!! It's funny you say this, Bob. I first played straight pool in America many years ago and learned a lot of those safeties from watching the better players. I use that "into the 4 ball" shot all the time. Funny thing is that over here people just don't have the concept of playing straight pool and I've yet to see anyone pull that shot off over here. The guys I play with have seen me do it and they've attempted it but hit the pack at an angle and glanced off and left me a shot so no one really plays that against me here. hehehehe!!! I really need to be cautious if I ever go to the US because I'm building some pretty sad habits, leaving safeties like that for example, over here.
MULLY

[Bob Jewett]

HAHAHAHA!!!! It's funny you say this, Bob. I first played straight pool in America many years ago and learned a lot of those safeties from watching the better players. I use that "into the 4 ball" shot all the time. Funny thing is that over here people just don't have the concept of playing straight pool and I've yet to see anyone pull that shot off over here. The guys I play with have seen me do it and they've attempted it but hit the pack at an angle and glanced off and left me a shot so no one really plays that against me here. hehehehe!!! I really need to be cautious if I ever go to the US because I'm building some pretty sad habits, leaving safeties like that for example, over here.
MULLY
Which brings up another point. If they haven't figured out the right response to a bad safe, you should continue playing that safe. Against some players in the league I play in, I know that certain bad plays on my part will lead to low-percentage shots on their part, so I shoot the bad shot. Until they surprise me by playing the right response, I'm set.

[dmgwalsh]

Well, except you leave the standard response to this shot which is to play the cue ball one cushion off the foot rail to the four ball. At least try to leave the cue ball on the center line of the table so that a two-cushion shot is required for the foul safe or your opponent can try for the Crane/Mosconi skim-the-side safe.


I sometimes play that into the 4 type shot even when the cue ball is left closer to the middle of the table. I'll use a lot of high right for example and the cue ball will jump over a bit, but I sometimes slide off the back and sell out.

However, it is probably not real important to save the point on that into the 4 ball type safety. As long as some balls are dispersed from the rack, you are probably ok.

[thyme3421]

Which brings up another point. If they haven't figured out the right response to a bad safe, you should continue playing that safe. Against some players in the league I play in, I know that certain bad plays on my part will lead to low-percentage shots on their part, so I shoot the bad shot. Until they surprise me by playing the right response, I'm set.


That's my 2nd favorite part of playing this game.... the psychology of it all

[Bob Jewett]

... However, it is probably not real important to save the point on that into the 4 ball type safety. As long as some balls are dispersed from the rack, you are probably ok.
I don't think I ever saw any of the top players in the 70s and 80s try to get a ball to a cushion on the shot to the back of the rack. They always shot just hard enough to disturb the rack so there would be some shot if their opponent left them on the head rail.

[dmgwalsh]

I don't think I ever saw any of the top players in the 70s and 80s try to get a ball to a cushion on the shot to the back of the rack. They always shot just hard enough to disturb the rack so there would be some shot if their opponent left them on the head rail.

So, what do you do, Bob?

I remember hearing Danny D in commentary at DCC this year bemoaning the fact that someone was trying for the legal safety at that juncture.

But sometimes, it seems so easy to shoot it and get the legal safe.

Sometimes I try for the safety and sometimes I don't and I think there is no rhyme or reason to when I do either.

[Bob Jewett]

So, what do you do, Bob? ...
I try to shoot it too softly to sell out. I'm happy to give up a point in that situation. Or, I'll try the Mosconi/Crane two-rails-to-skim-the-side shot knowing that if I miss the rack completely, my opponent may well try to play a safe on a corner ball.