Statement from BSCP

[Jerry Forsyth]

AZBilliards has just received this statement from the BSCP concerning the current situation in the Philippines:



REPORT ON THE PHILPPINE BILLIARDS SITUATION



by June Diokno

Spokesman and Program Director

Billiards & Snooker Congress of the Philippines

21 July 2004



The Billiards and Snooker Congress of the Philippines (BSCP) wishes to place on record this summary report on the billiards situation in the Philippines for the guidance and information of national clubs and international billiards organizations, the media and the public.

The BSCP was established in 1987 following the EDSA revolution of 1986. It is the member for the Philippines of the Asian Pocket Billiards Union (APBU), and as such is part of the international pool governance system under the World Pocket-Billiards Association (WPA). It is the member for billiards of the Philippine Olympic Committee (POC), through which it is part of the Olympic system. It is also the Philippine member of the Asian Confederation for Billiard Sports (ACBS), the Asian representative in the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS).
There are 4.5 million Filipinos who play billiards regularly according to an official survey conducted by the Social Weather Stations in 2006. As the national sports association, the BSCP comprises and represents the many stakeholders of billiard sports in the Philippines: players, promoters, billiards firms, parlors, clubs, associations, player managers, referees, billiards aficionados, media representatives, and billiard fans all over the country.
The BSCP is registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). Its policy-making body is the five-man Board of Directors. The executive function is exercised by a set of officers led by a President, Vice-President, Secretary-General, Treasurer, etc.


The current billiards situation in the country arose because of the brazen attempt of a group - the Billiards Managers and Players Association of the Philippines (BMPAP) -- to take over billiards in the Philippines on the absurd notion that they could do so with a handful of known players in hand. That challenge has been rebuffed in the POC, in the APBU, and in the Philippine billiards community as a whole. Nevertheless, the group has continued to try and disrupt the work of the BSCP through misinformation, wild and unfounded allegations, and events designed to compete with the BSCP calendar. And they have foisted their campaign of misinformation not just inside the country, but on the international front.

To distinguish between fact and falsehood in the present billiards situation, we are therefore issuing this official statement of facts and issues for the information and guidance of members and colleagues in the national and international billiards communities.

1. The Billiards Managers Association of the Philippines (BMAP) has claimed that the BSCP and its leadership have misappropriated public funds for its activities, starting with the allegation in January this year that the BSCP had received and misused P10 million given by the Philippine Sports Commission (PSC). This is an outright falsehood. After a thorough accounting of funds allocated for billiards by the PSC, its chairman William Ramirez issued an official statement that the government body never gave the BSCP the alleged P10 million fund or any other funds. All monies given for billiards (amounting to P1.2 million) went directly to players and referees. Not a single cent went to our association. (See attached Inquirer report.) Despite this clear rejection of its allegation, the BMPAP continues to retail this charge to the unsuspecting.

2. The BMPAP has claimed that government sponsorship and support of the 2006 and 2007 World Pool Championships in Manila represents a form of malversation of public funds by Raya Sports as promoter and BSCP as partner organization. This is false and ignorant. The support obtained for the WPCs was fully above board and was integral to the program from the beginning. No less than President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo provided backing and support for the events. Government corporations are some of the biggest advertisers and supporters of sports events in the country. The Department of Tourism has a $50 million budget specifically for the promotion of Philippine tourism abroad. For every peso given in support of the WPCs, Government got way, way more in terms of media values and national goodwill. Indeed, the Philippines became the virtual pool capital of the world by virtue of these efforts.

3. The BMPAP has claimed that in the selection of Filipino players for international competition, the BSCP does not play fair with all players and does not conduct a proper selection process. This is false and a total misrepresentation of the facts. In choosing players for international competition, the BSCP follows a strict process of evaluation and qualification. Besides regularly conducting tournaments, it institutes special qualifying tournaments to select the most suitable representatives for foreign competition.
What happened this year was that a number of players - under contract with the BMPAP managers - severed their relationship with the BSCP with its manifesto of February 2008, and thereby took themselves out of the selection process. The BMPAP boasted that henceforth it would conduct its own selection of players for the WPA events and the Guinness 9Ball Tour. It wrote the WPA, APBU and ESPN to inform them that it was now in charge of billiards in the Philippines. And it even got a government agency, the Games and Amusement Board (GAB), to write international bodies, claiming powers over Philippine sports that it does not have. When these overtures for international recognition were rebuffed, they turned around and started claiming that their players were not being fairly included and treated in the BSCP selection process.

The BSCP's position on this issue is clear. To be included in the selection process, the BMPAP players have to be reintegrated into the BSCP system. As a minimum requirement for this, players who publicly denounced the BSCP leadership for alleged corruption and abuses should individually either retract their charges or file their complaints before the Philippine Olympic Committee (POC). They cannot have it both ways: enjoying the patronage of the BSCP while denouncing it with all kinds of allegations.
The BSCP has no quarrel with the players of the BMPAP. We believe the players are just being used by their managers for their dark purposes. This is why we have refrained so far from applying full sanctions against them. But until they profess full allegiance to the BSCP and respect for its rules and policies, they will not be included in the selection process for international competition.

4. The BMPAP has misrepresented before the international pool community through online forums what happened at the Senate sports committee hearing on May 28, 2008. The hearing was called because of a petition of the BSCP for a determination of whether or not the Games and Amusement Board has the authority to regulate billiards and other sports in the Philippines. Among other things, the following issues were brought to light:
a. GAB's interference in billiards is contrary to the Olympic principle of non-government interference in sports. It has no standing in the international sports community.

b. GAB is arrogating powers that do not exist in the law (presidential decree 471) it is invoking, which does not mention sports, only games.

c. GAB's ruling that all tournaments offering P2,000 or more in prize money must secure a GAB permit is ridiculous and would subject even school competition to its supervision. Its companion ruling that all players playing in such tournaments must get a GAB license is even more absurd and constitutes interference with the rights of players.

d. GAB has singled out billiards for its licensing and permits ruling. Other sports and their athletes have been spared from its strictures.

e. GAB, in the words of hearing chairman Sen. Gregorio Honasan, is placing the Philippines in a ?time warp? by enforcing licensing of athletes while the rest of the world is now living in the era of open sports.
These issues were fully discussed at the hearing and reported by the Philippine media. In describing the hearing in the pool forums, however, BMPAP sought to depict it as a hearing about government support for the 2006 and 2007 WPCs because they got one senator to ask one irrelevant question for them. The inquiry will continue, but meanwhile it is significant that GAB has already desisted from intervening with BSCP events and from demanding that players get a license from it.



5. We want to state for the record that the BSCP and its partner organizations have been instrumental in helping many Filipino players achieve international recognition by providing them with the opportunity to play in major tournaments at home and abroad. Among them are players who are in the fold of the BMPAP. Until the BSCP started its proactive program in 2005, the only Filipino players known to the world were Efren Reyes, Francisco Bustamante and Alex Pagulayan. No other Filipino players were known because of Puyat's policy of exclusion and control over international invitations.

...CONTINUED ON NEXT POST

[Jerry Forsyth]

Once the BSCP launched its program of promoting international tournaments in the Philippines and helping Filipino players to compete abroad, there was literally an explosion of Filipino players getting recognition internationally. Dennis Orcullo got his first international triumph at the World Pool League in Poland via an invitation gotten for him by BSCP. Antonio Gabica won his Asian Gold Medal for pool because BSCP fielded him in competition. Ronato Alcano got his big break via the 2006 world Pool Championship in Manila. Marlon Manalo got his start through the BSCP system of nurturing talent. Lee Van Corteza got recognition through the many opportunities given him by the BSCP. The list goes on.

In its handling of players, the BSCP does not take any commission from the winnings and bonuses of players who play in its program. This is in stark contrast to the practice of BMPAP managers who take 40% of every peso their players under contract earn. Likewise, the BSCP and its partner organizations have no outstanding financial obligations to players. In BSCP organized and sanctioned tournaments, winning players are paid within days after the conclusion of the event.

The BSCP has not confined its attention and support to just the top players. As an integral part of its program, the BSCP holds regularly women and juniors championships, divisional championships for various levels of players, and training programs for players. It does not forget its mission of service to all stakeholders of the sport, and its responsibility to build a secure future for Philippine pool.

6. The BMPAP was founded on the idea of establishing a professional pool team league in the Philippines. They held a big press conference to announce it, and projected the month of July for the start of competition. The pro team league induced many players to sign up because of the promise that all will earn regular salaries from their respective teams instead of having to win in competition. Aging players liked the idea of retiring into such a welfare system. The plan has not gotten off the ground, however. It is now July 2008 and there has been no mention anymore of the team league. No private firm has signed up. Meanwhile, players who enlisted are now asking about their promised bonanza. They feel they have been duped.

7. Boycotting tournaments and competition managed by the BSCP has been a long-standing tactic of Aristeo Puyat, one of the three BMPAP founding managers. He has employed it in the Asian Games and Southeast Asian Games by refusing to allow Efren Reyes and Francisco Bustamante to play for the country unless he can dictate on the composition of teams and the fielding of players. He has used it against rival promoters for years, believing that if his contract players do not play the tournaments will not get sponsorship and fan support. He has not allowed Reyes and Bustamante to play in the BSCP national championship for several years now. This year, he and the BMPAP have employed the boycott against the Philippine Pool Tour of the BSCP, despite the attractive prizes and international competition. And now, they have talked about a boycott of the 2008 WPA World Ten Ball Championship.

While the boycott tactic may have worked for Puyat in the past, it has been unsuccessful in the face of the proactive agenda of the BSCP and several new promoters during the past three years. Bigger and more exciting events are now taking place all over the Philippines regularly. Boycotting players are not missed by the fans. BSCP's position on a boycott is that no player is bigger than the sport. A boycott is the player's loss, not the promoter's.

8. With the collapse of its pro team league scheme, the BMPAP has shifted its focus to holding its politically sponsored tournaments to rival BSCP-organized and sanctioned tournaments. It has hitched its wagon to the presidential ambitions of Sen. Manny Villar, who is eager to use pool as a means to project his candidacy and enhance his popularity. Together they have come up with the Villar Cup - a series of tournaments to be staged in various parts of the country.
We in the BSCP wish the Villar Cup well, but it is clear that the BMPAP does not wish us the same. The BMPAP has mounted its tournaments on exactly the same dates as the tournaments being staged by the BSCP and its partner organizations. When the BSCP Philippine Pool Tour was launched in Mandaluyong City on May 6 to 11 (Mandaluyong Mayor's Cup), the Villar Cup was unveiled on exactly the same dates in Alabang, Muntinlupa. When the second PPT leg was staged in Puerto Princesa City (Puerto Princesa Mayor's Cup) on June 20-22, the Villar Cup materialized in Cebu City. Its object apparently is to show that they are an association at par with BSCP and to prevent their players from participating in the PPT.
All this BSCP can live with. Our association is comfortable with the support it is getting for its programs and events from the private and public sectors, and from billiards clubs and fans all over the country. Every PPT event enjoys the support of city governments of hosts. It meets high international standards for both equipment and technical management have commercial sponsors. Its field of players include some of the best players in the world. And they are fully televised nationally and internationally by the country's biggest network. The same cannot be said of the BMPAP events, which have yet to see one single foreign player see action in any of them.

9. As a matter of policy, the BSCP does not sanction tournaments that are organized and run by billiards managers. We believe there is an inherent conflict of interest between the billiards manager's interest in his players winning and his obligation as promoter to be fair to all participants. The instances when billiards managers-promoters have not played fair with players are legion. The BSCP has received numerous complaints from players about practices of favoritism in seedings and bracketing which have rendered difficult for independent players to win in manager-organized tournaments.

This conflict of interest question is present in the Villar Cup being organized by BMPAP because it is run by the three BMPAP managers (Aristeo Puyat, Perry Mariano and Jonathan Sy). The managers' players are being granted undue advantages through outright entry into the last 16 or last 32 rounds of tournaments, while independent players have to fight through a process of elimination. It is no wonder that only the managers' players win these events, and many independent players shy away from joining them.

Finally, with respect to the appeal of WPA president Ian Anderson for the BSCP and BMPAP to put aside their differences in order to ensure the staging and success of the World Ten Ball Championship in September and the World 9-Ball Championship in November, the BSCP board and officers wishes to convey to Mr. Anderson and the WPA their readiness to cooperate. We are ready and willing to discuss with the other side ways and means to forge a consensus and set aside differences.

[juegabillar]

This two-part article is a "must-read" for all of us concerned with the current situation in the Phillipines. I sincerly hope something can be "worked-out" to remedy the current situation.

[arian dacongan]

so the alex case is their example of strict fairness...

alex case is just the beginning of their concerted effort to put into submission with mal-intention the pro-pool players in the phil.

it is the only one i will mention because it's the one that mostly AZB folks knows about...

..one that does not know what's going on in phil. pool "internally" would probobly buy these lies and misinfromation...

and talking about conflict of interest..are you out of your minds yen and cohorts...one only need to know a little bit of yen/bscp dealings to know and see the biggest conflict of interest is within bscp(yen and cohorts) and raya...

bottomline is... the Phil. pro pool players are fed-up with yen and cohorts and they will never be able to be subdued by yen and cohorts to accomplish their ambition of dictating and corrupting phil. pool scene...

that's the bottomline...no matter how much lies and beutiful their words are...

if i am any business entity or a sponsor or a player.. i will not have anything to do with yen /cohorts as they have no integrity...

players knows that...

[arian dacongan]

no one will believe yen and cohorts about puyat...mr puyat's interest are well known and there was never a doubt about his intention,,,no mal-intention intended,,players and knowledgable pool folks know that...

yen and cohorts continue to believe in these tactics of lies and misinformations... are you all stupid there or what???..you know it's not going to work and you continue to use same corrupt tactics...

like what jam has been saying,,bscp has keep on shooting it's foot....bscp will eventually shoot itself to death...

[AuntyDan]

This two-part article is a "must-read" for all of us concerned with the current situation in the Phillipines. I sincerly hope something can be "worked-out" to remedy the current situation.

I tried to read this, I really did, but it's making my eyes bleed. Can someone who knows something about this and doesn't have a personal axe to grind please give us a summary in 20 words or less?

Jerry - When you post this, are you posting it just as a matter of interest (like a press release) or making some statement of support from AZB, as you have an official capacity here? If it is the latter I suggest you put this at the top of the post so it is clear to everyone.

[JoeyInCali]

I tried to read this, I really did, but it's making my eyes bleed. Can someone who knows something about this and doesn't have a badly-translated axe to grind please give us a summary in 20 words or less?
"... smoke and mirrors..."

[AuntyDan]

"... smoke and mirrors..."

Thanks Joey, that's only three words, which definately helps. But who's trying to deceive who here? Or is everyone involved just out to get the most for themselves and no-one else needs to care what happens?

[JoeyInCali]

Thanks Joey, that's only three words, which definately helps. But who's trying to deceive who here? Or is everyone involved just out to get the most for themselves and no-one else needs to care what happens?
Let's put it this way, Puyat Sports have been sponsoring Efren and other Pinoy pros for a long time. Mr. Puyat was not in it for money. He was in it to support Efren and the sport.
When Efren won the world 9-ball, he offered to give Mr Puyat all the money he won from that b/c Mr. Puyat's construction business had a horrible year that year.
BScP claims they do not take any money from the players' purses. If anyone believes that, ok.

[arian dacongan]

thanks joey..

that's what i'm talking about,,,

all these statements from yen and cohorts are all lies and misinfromation...

[miko]

Let's put it this way, Puyat Sports have been sponsoring Efren and other Pinoy pros for a long time. Mr. Puyat was not in it for money. He was in it to support Efren and the sport.
When Efren won the world 9-ball, he offered to give Mr Puyat all the money he won from that b/c Mr. Puyat's construction business had a horrible year that year.
BScP claims they do not take any money from the players' purses. If anyone believes that, ok.

From what I remember, not until recently, Puyat only supported Efren and Django. Alex was included in Puyat's stable only after he won the wpc. I haven't heard of Puyat developing young, up and coming talents in pool. I can't say he trully supported the sport.

[JoeyInCali]

From what I remember, not until recently, Puyat only supported Efren and Django. Alex was included in Puyat's stable only after he won the wpc. I haven't heard of Puyat developing young, up and coming talents in pool. I can't say he trully supported the sport.
Luat and Andam?
He supported the Philippine team against the world.
Coronado Lanes holding tournaments?

[pro9dg]

What an absolute load of garbage and so transparent.
Nobody twists the players arms to sign with BMPAP companies. I have spoken with almost every top Filipino player on this issue and they have very strong views. They have voted with their feet.
Surely, the WPA will not be fooled by this smokescreen.
Most players outside the Philippines will not be able to afford to attend both events. In the circumstances, I hope that they don't choose the soft option.
They should show some solidarity with theiir Filipino player colleagues and back the Matchroom supported World 9 Ball Championship only.

[phoebe choy]

I don't know all the "details" and I don't care too anyway....

But funny how that whole post of mumble-jumble mentioned NOTHING regarding the Alex situation and how he was wronged?????

Seems as if it was a Puyat-bashing if you ask me. I heard that the Yen guy and Puyat have a long history of bad-blood between them so this so called "statement" from the BSCP sounds like a bunch of words...no REAL strength behind any of their allegations or reasonings.

Oh yeah....and funny how at the end of the "statement" they make themselves to be angels and wanting to cooperate and settle things....maybe only now a fire has been lit under their phony asses since Alex is taking them to court!!!!

Go Alex.....do your thing.....they maliciously tried to tarnish your rep, those f-d up text messages, and taking you out of tournaments, and accusing you of cheating and lying.....God I wish I were there.....Alex is the most honorable "player" I know.....I hope you rape um for every penny you can.

BSCP's claim that the "world" ONLY knew of Efren, Busti, and Alex is so fricken hilarious.....and they also try to make you believe that the acheivements of Orcullo, Lee Van, Alcano, etc. are all because of BSCP efforts alone.....PUUUUHLLLEEEEZ!!!!! Players acheivements are their own....how dare they try and take the credit for that from the players.

I am a little disturbed by Jerry and his seemingly "support" for Yen and the BSCP when it is obvious that named Filipino players have been unjustly treated. Naming Efren, Busti and Alex is good enough for me....these three have only brought good things for the game of pool, AND the country of the Philippines.....add the other names and I'm sorry BSCP but you have burned the wrong group of players.

I always support the players first and foremost....so it is just outrageous to hear the tyranny of the BSCP posted on this site....it actually sickens me and makes me feel sad to be half filipino.

[JB Cases]

I don't have a dog in this hunt. But this statement strikes me as taking credit for something that they don't have the right to take credit for.

"Ronato Alcano got his big break via the 2006 world Pool Championship in Manila. Marlon Manalo got his start through the BSCP system of nurturing talent. Lee Van Corteza got recognition through the many opportunities given him by the BSCP"

Ronnie Alcano got into the World Championships via a qualifier. He was not given a slot by the BSCP. He earned his standing on the world stage through his own play and the support of his backers. Ronnie Alcano spent a lot of time in the USA playing on the Joss Tour and honed his skills there. I doubt very highly that the BSCP was paying for or paving the way for Ronnie's time in the USA playing on the Joss Tour. I doubt bery highly that they had anything at all to do with Ronnie's visas or anything to do with his pool career until AFTER he won the WPC.

I don't know Marlon Manalo's story but in interviews he never mentioned that he was "nurtured" by any organization. I got the impression from Manalo's interviews that he learned the game through his father's pool room and was essentially a lone wolf in the Phillipine pool scene. He went to America on his own to compete without any financial support ( and presumably without any visa assistance) from the BSCP. I don't know that this is nurturing.

What happend to Alex Pagulayan? Is this an example of nurturing billiards talent? The man was slotted to play in the Guiness Tour representing the Phillipines and he was dumped for charges that the REST OF THE WORLD agrees were completely bogus.

Is this a case where the BSCP giveth and the BSCP taketh away?

[JAM]

The BCA seemingly, from what I have read, took the ranking authority from the UPA in the United States.

Somebody in the Philippines, maybe the GAB (Games and Amusements Board), needs to review the "authority" given to the BSCP.

Thereafter, the WPA should look to whichever organization the Government of the Republic of Philippines deems as their representative pool governing body, whether it be BSCP or the other one. I'm getting confused with all the acronyms, but at this juncture, it seems there are two organizational entities in conflict.

That said,

LONG LIVE ALEX PAGULAYAN!
SUPPORT FILIPINO POOL PLAYERS!
SUPPORT ALEX PAGULAYAN!

JAM

[miko]

Luat and Andam?
He supported the Philippine team against the world.
Coronado Lanes holding tournaments?

Are Luat and Andam still under Puyat now? I know they were under Puyat when they were still winning tournaments.

[miko]

Seems like BSCP is trying to take a lot of credit from the accomplishments of the Pinoy pool players where in fact most of the names they mentioned has already made a name for themselves before BSCP was actively staging tournaments in the Philippines.

Glad Alex is back on the Guinness Tour!

[JB Cases]

The BCA seemingly, from what I have read, took the ranking authority from the UPA in the United States.

This is a different issue. The BCA only has the authority to nominate players for WPA events. As such it was using the UPA rankings to do so and decided not to use them for their declared reasons. The BCA is the continental member of the WPA and not the UPA. The UPA can still ranks it's players how it sees fit to do so. The BCA can extend invitations and award spots to WPA tournaments based on whatever criteria it has to adhere to according to the WPA.

Somebody in the Philippines, maybe the GAB (Games and Amusements Board), needs to review the "authority" given to the BSCP.

Thereafter, the WPA should look to whichever organization the Government of the Republic of Philippines deems as their representative pool governing body, whether it be BSCP or the other one. I'm getting confused with all the acronyms, but at this juncture, it seems there are two organizational entities in conflict.

First of all the government has no business in this. If the law in the Phillipines addresses amateur and professional sports then I suppose that whichever groups arise to represent those groups need to adhere to the law or lobby to change it.

The WPA as an entity does not recongnize the BSCP as a member. At least I don't think so. It recognizes only continental members such as the BCA, the EPBF (European Pocket Billiards Federation), and the APBU (Asian Pocket Billiards Union). It is up to the APBU to sort out which organization in the Phillipines that it will accept nominations from for allotted spots in WPA events.




I think that the situation in the Philippines is unique. Nowhere else in the world are there "stables" of professional players. Although the Philippines is producing world class talent it is not the epicenter of pool in the world.

People need to stop seeing this as if it's an earth shattering event. Whatever happens in the Philippine pool scene is unlikely to affect much in the real world of pool outside of the Philippines.

No other investors are anxiously watching what happens before they start their own European and North American "stables". The world press isn't camping out at BSCP headquarters to get a comment from Yen Makabenta.

Only here we are making a big deal of it.

I don't really have much of an opinion one way or the other. I am not sure how any of this benefits the players though as it seems as if they are pawns in this power struggle.

Are the billiard managers really going to let the players decide their own fate if they gain control of the professional scene? Since when do the horses run the farm? Having said that I have NO IDEA what the bylaws f the BMAPP (or whatever it is) are. I have no idea how they will handle the very issues they are protesting against.

One thing I am sure of - "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

[arian dacongan]

mr. puyat has been and aleays been the greatest supporters of pool players in the phil..esp. with reyes and busty..he is a gentleman and a very honorable man in all his dealings.

yen is the opposite....very calculating,coniving,maliciuous and soo corrupt

mr puyat at some point was offered by reyes his purse(mentioned by i beieved joey, but mr puyat refused,,so reyes offered to carry his name as a patch on his shirt- even that mr puyat had refused for a long time,,,now reyes does-just out of gratitude to his lifetime friend ,mentor and financier..

reyes and busty and alex and others conquered the world by mr. puyats help without mr. puyat making a cent from them...perry mariano is one also that lost a lot of money in sup[port of the pinoy pro players...

they are the ones that have nurtured these players...and beyong nurturing

bscp had never nurtured any player..it's the opposite..they tried to and did screw players from the getgo....

i will talk to marlon about this claim by yen and cohorts of nurturing him...marlon was indeed "alone" in all his achievements as mentioned by phoebe choy previously..

yen and cohorts don't understand that lies is not going to fly specially with the phil. pro players...

[JAM]

I think that the situation in the Philippines is unique. Nowhere else in the world are there "stables" of professional players. Although the Philippines is producing world class talent it is not the epicenter of pool in the world.

People need to stop seeing this as if it's an earth shattering event. Whatever happens in the Philippine pool scene is unlikely to affect much in the real world of pool outside of the Philippines.

No other investors are anxiously watching what happens before they start their own European and North American "stables". The world press isn't camping out at BSCP headquarters to get a comment from Yen Makabenta.

Only here we are making a big deal of it.

I don't really have much of an opinion one way or the other. I am not sure how any of this benefits the players though as it seems as if they are pawns in this power struggle.

Are the billiard managers really going to let the players decide their own fate if they gain control of the professional scene? Since when do the horses run the farm? Having said that I have NO IDEA what the bylaws f the BMAPP (or whatever it is) are. I have no idea how they will handle the very issues they are protesting against.

One thing I am sure of - "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

I always enjoy reading your posts.

You have this uncanny ability to tell it like it, ESPECIALLY when the truth needs to be told. I will not elaborate, but only to say you are absolutely right in your observations about a variety of topics. It's a shame that some will not handle the truth when confronted with it and give you the hand. And I'll just leave it at that! ;)

BTW, John, I saw you on TV at the GenerationPool men's pro event on ESPN sitting in the VIP seats railside! You must have had a blast! :p

JAM

[Hail Mary Shot]

"Ronato Alcano got his big break via the 2006 world Pool Championship in Manila. Marlon Manalo got his start through the BSCP system of nurturing talent. Lee Van Corteza got recognition through the many opportunities given him by the BSCP"


this is one twisted statement comin from the BSCP. does that mean without the 2006 WPC in Manila, Alcano couldn't have won the championship? If I could remember correctly, Alcano was only a late substitution on the 128 man field event. Alcano qualified by sheer luck, and the BSCP didn't bestow him a slot. without that one person backing out of the event, Alcano would've not been able to play. did the BSCP have to do something with that? certainly not. I guess, if only the 2007 8ball world tourney where Alcano won happened in Manila, I believe the BSCP would had used it as well.

regarding Marlon, he's been playing snooker regularly on his own in Mandaluyong before he switched to pool. the BSCP has no influence to that whatsoever but rather by Manalo's own decision to join pool. Manalo joined tourneys even before the BSCP locked their eyes on hosting the WPC event.

lastly, LVC was among those young guns playing along with Orcullo as early as the 2000 millenium. he played several tourneys not later than 2005and a few broadcasted events including the SMB 9B tours and invitational exhibition games (certainly not BSCP events) . I can't see why the BSCP takes credit for such exposure if LVC already got the exposure due to his preliminary stage encounters prior to some BSCP events.

what I understand is that the BSCP wants to take credit for all those players' accomplishments while the only job that they did was to issue IDs.

[Darth-Pinoy]

Thanks Joey, that's only three words, which definately helps. But who's trying to deceive who here? Or is everyone involved just out to get the most for themselves and no-one else needs to care what happens?

I have no axe to grind here. And I can give you some facts that I know first-hand.

1) The BSCP case against Alex is definitely a boo-boo. They shouldn't have done that to Alex for it was simply out of line. Why would you punish somebody who didn't even get, or has never gotten, a single complaint from anyone in or any other tournament? Everybody loved Alex and his antics in event in question.

2) 95% of all top Filipino pros do belong with the BMPAP. However, not all share the same sentiments. Most of them simply want to play and earn thier living. So why are they there? Because their managers says so, and they are afraid that if they do otherwise, their benefactors would no more release a cent to them. Understandable......but inconvenient.

3) BSCP can be too strict and insensitive to the players. Players, being human as well, have certain needs and nuances that need some attention and consideration. The officers of BSCP do not pay attention to those. It's like; "You play. That's all you gotta do. And play good! You don't wanna play? Fine...we'll let the next guy play.". That shouldn't be how it is. You really wanna nurture a player, you gotta be aware of his life. What is he going through now? How will he play or how will things affect his game?

***

(Random conversations with several players. Translated from Filipino)

4) From lower-class BMPAP players themselves : "I wish I could also play in the BSCP tours. I heard they also had lotsa nice prizes up for grabs there. And the competition isn't that tough coz most of the tough guys are here! I think I can do well there too. But Boss XXX won't let me and the other guys go. Damn!"

From an upper-class BMPAP player: "Wow! I'm glad this rift between the two camps started. It's the best thing that ever happened to us! The Boss suddenly treats us a lot better now coz they're afraid to lose us to the other side. We're paid on time with better rates than ever! I hope they never patch things up." And when that pool league comes in....that'll definitely be the sh*t!

5) From an upper-class BCSP player: "This doesn't feel right. My career's going nowhere. And I think I'm not playing right. I need something...but I can't seem to know exactly what. To make things worse they (BSCP leaders) aren't listening to me. I hafta do something about this soon. But I swear I'm not going over the fence and join the BMPAP. I'd rather do something else."

6) Some upper-class BMPAP players did say something about their managers taking 40% off their winnings. But also added this statement: "Yeah they do take 40%, but I don't really mind. Hey...with what they have given me and my family...what they spent on me since way back....what I'm able to win just ain't cutting it! To be honest, I'm glad they're only taking 40%...when it should really be more. Yeah I did win a few, but I'm also aware of how long they've been backing me up and I believe I've cost them a lot more than what I have been able to win back. Of course I will always remember my debts. Not just the money, but also of gratitude. That's another reason why I can't leave boss for no matter what."


***

7) There used to be a time here when somebody announced a tournament, anybody who wanted can have the chance to join it. Now, the first question one will ask about a tour is "Whose is it? BSCP or BMPAP? I need to know which one coz I can't join the other."

8) The BSCP is poised to host a WPC without the top-caliber Filipino players. The BMPAP is ready to host its own WPC with ONLY the top-caliber Filipino players! Nobody else might/will be there.

Coz if the BMPAP players do go on with their boycott, the WPA will most probably see it as hostile action and let it be known to all its international affiliated players and sub-organizations not to join the BMPAP tournaments. (I'm not sure about this one. This is just a personal hunch.)


9) The BSCP did not nurture Ronnie Alcano and did not give him any special treament during the WPC06. Ronnie did most of it witht the help of his backer, Perry Mariano. Same with Lee Van's success with the national championships. (Jonathan Sy, LV's manager)

10) About Marlon Manalo, if the BSCP is referring to the times when he was mostly playing snooker and not yet concentrated on pool, then it might be a "Yes" they were closely nurturing him. It was a time when a younger Marlon showed prowess in snooker. Coz he ain't really satisfied with them lately. And he ain't alone.


....??? Let me stop here for now. Some other info I haven't confirmed and yet some I have confirmed but just too incriminating to post here. And that's to say it for both of them!


For me, I couldn't care less for either organization. Both have really bad skeletons in their closets. But then, both have also done some good to contribute to Philippine pool. But most of all, the players themselves are divided. Some used to be friends and now are treating each other with cold indifference.

The upper-class pros seem to be the only group of players who have favorable conditions. While the lower-class, semi-pros and amateurs who also make a living off pool seem to be having it worse coz they aren't able to maximize their chances of earning.

The atmosphere has changed here to say the least. And it's not for the better.

My advocacy is for those standing on the sidelines to simply shut-up and let the two factions settle it among themselves. Let us not throw more fodder into the flame.

Both claim to be right, the other wrong. Both claim to have the financial, political and administrative capacity to back their claims...I say...then let them do it as they say! Time will ultimately be their judge. We should atleast bear witness and let it flow. The more we interfere, the longer this is gonna get. I believe nobody wants that.'


@Hail Mary Shot - the player you're talking about (got lucky coz someone at the WPC06 pulled out) wasn't Ronnie. It was Jharome Pena who finished top-12th in the qualifiers and sneaked in via points earned coz two seeds didn't come to the WPC at that time. The other guy (11th) I think was Israel Rota or was it Rudy Morta? I forget.

[arian dacongan]

I have no axe to grind here. And I can give you some facts that I know first-hand.

1) The BSCP case against Alex is definitely a boo-boo. They shouldn't have done that to Alex for it was simply out of line. Why would you punish somebody who didn't even get, or has never gotten, a single complaint from anyone in or any other tournament? Everybody loved Alex and his antics in event in question.

2) 95% of all top Filipino pros do belong with the BMPAP. However, not all share the same sentiments. Most of them simply want to play and earn thier living. So why are they there? Because their managers says so, and they are afraid that if they do otherwise, their benefactors would no more release a cent to them. Understandable......but inconvenient.

3) BSCP can be too strict and insensitive to the players. Players, being human as well, have certain needs and nuances that need some attention and consideration. The officers of BSCP do not pay attention to those. It's like; "You play. That's all you gotta do. And play good! You don't wanna play? Fine...we'll let the next guy play.". That shouldn't be how it is. You really wanna nurture a player, you gotta be aware of his life. What is he going through now? How will he play or how will things affect his game?

***

(Random conversations with several players. Translated from Filipino)

4) From lower-class BMPAP players themselves : "I wish I could also play in the BSCP tours. I heard they also had lotsa nice prizes up for grabs there. And the competition isn't that tough coz most of the tough guys are here! I think I can do well there too. But Boss XXX won't let me and the other guys go. Damn!"

From an upper-class BMPAP player: "Wow! I'm glad this rift between the two camps started. It's the best thing that ever happened to us! The Boss suddenly treats us a lot better now coz they're afraid to lose us to the other side. We're paid on time with better rates than ever! I hope they never patch things up." And when that pool league comes in....that'll definitely be the sh*t!

5) From an upper-class BCSP player: "This doesn't feel right. My career's going nowhere. And I think I'm not playing right. I need something...but I can't seem to know exactly what. To make things worse they (BSCP leaders) aren't listening to me. I hafta do something about this soon. But I swear I'm not going over the fence and join the BMPAP. I'd rather do something else."

6) Some upper-class BMPAP players did say something about their managers taking 40% off their winnings. But also added this statement: "Yeah they do take 40%, but I don't really mind. Hey...with what they have given me and my family...what they spent on me since way back....what I'm able to win just ain't cutting it! To be honest, I'm glad they're only taking 40%...when it should really be more. Yeah I did win a few, but I'm also aware of how long they've been backing me up and I believe I've cost them a lot more than what I have been able to win back. Of course I will always remember my debts. Not just the money, but also of gratitude. That's another reason why I can't leave boss for no matter what."


***

7) There used to be a time here when somebody announced a tournament, anybody who wanted can have the chance to join it. Now, the first question one will ask about a tour is "Whose is it? BSCP or BMPAP? I need to know which one coz I can't join the other."

8) The BSCP is poised to host a WPC without the top-caliber Filipino players. The BMPAP is ready to host its own WPC with ONLY the top-caliber Filipino players! Nobody else might/will be there.

Coz if the BMPAP players do go on with their boycott, the WPA will most probably see it as hostile action and let it be known to all its international affiliated players and sub-organizations not to join the BMPAP tournaments. (I'm not sure about this one. This is just a personal hunch.)


9) The BSCP did not nurture Ronnie Alcano and did not give him any special treament during the WPC06. Ronnie did most of it witht the help of his backer, Perry Mariano. Same with Lee Van's success with the national championships. (Jonathan Sy, LV's manager)

10) About Marlon Manalo, if the BSCP is referring to the times when he was mostly playing snooker and not yet concentrated on pool, then it might be a "Yes" they were closely nurturing him. It was a time when a younger Marlon showed prowess in snooker. Coz he ain't really satisfied with them lately. And he ain't alone.


....??? Let me stop here for now. Some other info I haven't confirmed and yet some I have confirmed but just too incriminating to post here. And that's to say it for both of them!


For me, I couldn't care less for either organization. Both have really bad skeletons in their closets. But then, both have also done some good to contribute to Philippine pool. But most of all, the players themselves are divided. Some used to be friends and now are treating each other with cold indifference.

The upper-class pros seem to be the only group of players who have favorable conditions. While the lower-class, semi-pros and amateurs who also make a living off pool seem to be having it worse coz they aren't able to maximize their chances of earning.

The atmosphere has changed here to say the least. And it's not for the better.

My advocacy is for those standing on the sidelines to simply shut-up and let the two factions settle it among themselves. Let us not throw more fodder into the flame.

Both claim to be right, the other wrong. Both claim to have the financial, political and administrative capacity to back their claims...I say...then let them do it as they say! Time will ultimately be their judge. We should atleast bear witness and let it flow. The more we interfere, the longer this is gonna get. I believe nobody wants that.'


@Hail Mary Shot - the player you're talking about (got lucky coz someone at the WPC06 pulled out) wasn't Ronnie. It was Jharome Pena who finished top-12th in the qualifiers and sneaked in via points earned coz two seeds didn't come to the WPC at that time. The other guy (11th) I think was Israel Rota or was it Rudy Morta? I forget.

darth..i absolutely agree with you on your posts: that is the inconvenient truth.

but also.these players esp. the lower rated ones.need to understand the principle here that the managers are fighting for...some of thses players are really shortsighted- all they wanna do is play regardless of who's tournamnet ist is,,i absolutely agree..and i understand the "poverty" issue or the socio economic issue involved here...they have to play and make money...

what i hope they see also is if they let themselves be subdued by yen and cohorts then thses vultures will have their way anyway they want it...

now that's like being in bondage but being fed like a dog....the pillars like reyes knows very well the issue here,,they are fighting for these players future above all....these managers are not really like yen and cohorts...

if they make a stand once and for all,,then eventually it will be good to for them and the fair competition will benefit them,,,

[arian dacongan]

also darth,,this forum is not an interference to the settlement of this problem...this is discussion of opinions...that is the part i do not understand with you,,,you want people to hush,,,and that's why i said on my previous therad that i'm glad you are not in any governmental position like a president or something because you will hush people and then you have created a greater crisis of stifling freedom of press/speech..

this is just discussions and so don't tell people to hush...jmho

[hardknox222]

To be honest, it is very difficult to determine what side to believe. This rebuttal from the BSCP makes sense to me but on the other hand, the facts that BMPAP had posted before also made sense. The only thing that is clear to me is EITHER one group is lying or both groups are lying. They cannot both be truths because each groups' claims are exact opposites of the other. I am so confused and so sad that this is happening to the Filipino players. :( Can't you guys just get along?

[jay helfert]

I have no axe to grind here. And I can give you some facts that I know first-hand.

1) The BSCP case against Alex is definitely a boo-boo. They shouldn't have done that to Alex for it was simply out of line. Why would you punish somebody who didn't even get, or has never gotten, a single complaint from anyone in or any other tournament? Everybody loved Alex and his antics in event in question.

2) 95% of all top Filipino pros do belong with the BMPAP. However, not all share the same sentiments. Most of them simply want to play and earn thier living. So why are they there? Because their managers says so, and they are afraid that if they do otherwise, their benefactors would no more release a cent to them. Understandable......but inconvenient.

3) BSCP can be too strict and insensitive to the players. Players, being human as well, have certain needs and nuances that need some attention and consideration. The officers of BSCP do not pay attention to those. It's like; "You play. That's all you gotta do. And play good! You don't wanna play? Fine...we'll let the next guy play.". That shouldn't be how it is. You really wanna nurture a player, you gotta be aware of his life. What is he going through now? How will he play or how will things affect his game?

***

(Random conversations with several players. Translated from Filipino)

4) From lower-class BMPAP players themselves : "I wish I could also play in the BSCP tours. I heard they also had lotsa nice prizes up for grabs there. And the competition isn't that tough coz most of the tough guys are here! I think I can do well there too. But Boss XXX won't let me and the other guys go. Damn!"

From an upper-class BMPAP player: "Wow! I'm glad this rift between the two camps started. It's the best thing that ever happened to us! The Boss suddenly treats us a lot better now coz they're afraid to lose us to the other side. We're paid on time with better rates than ever! I hope they never patch things up." And when that pool league comes in....that'll definitely be the sh*t!

5) From an upper-class BCSP player: "This doesn't feel right. My career's going nowhere. And I think I'm not playing right. I need something...but I can't seem to know exactly what. To make things worse they (BSCP leaders) aren't listening to me. I hafta do something about this soon. But I swear I'm not going over the fence and join the BMPAP. I'd rather do something else."

6) Some upper-class BMPAP players did say something about their managers taking 40% off their winnings. But also added this statement: "Yeah they do take 40%, but I don't really mind. Hey...with what they have given me and my family...what they spent on me since way back....what I'm able to win just ain't cutting it! To be honest, I'm glad they're only taking 40%...when it should really be more. Yeah I did win a few, but I'm also aware of how long they've been backing me up and I believe I've cost them a lot more than what I have been able to win back. Of course I will always remember my debts. Not just the money, but also of gratitude. That's another reason why I can't leave boss for no matter what."


***

7) There used to be a time here when somebody announced a tournament, anybody who wanted can have the chance to join it. Now, the first question one will ask about a tour is "Whose is it? BSCP or BMPAP? I need to know which one coz I can't join the other."

8) The BSCP is poised to host a WPC without the top-caliber Filipino players. The BMPAP is ready to host its own WPC with ONLY the top-caliber Filipino players! Nobody else might/will be there.

Coz if the BMPAP players do go on with their boycott, the WPA will most probably see it as hostile action and let it be known to all its international affiliated players and sub-organizations not to join the BMPAP tournaments. (I'm not sure about this one. This is just a personal hunch.)


9) The BSCP did not nurture Ronnie Alcano and did not give him any special treament during the WPC06. Ronnie did most of it witht the help of his backer, Perry Mariano. Same with Lee Van's success with the national championships. (Jonathan Sy, LV's manager)

10) About Marlon Manalo, if the BSCP is referring to the times when he was mostly playing snooker and not yet concentrated on pool, then it might be a "Yes" they were closely nurturing him. It was a time when a younger Marlon showed prowess in snooker. Coz he ain't really satisfied with them lately. And he ain't alone.


....??? Let me stop here for now. Some other info I haven't confirmed and yet some I have confirmed but just too incriminating to post here. And that's to say it for both of them!


For me, I couldn't care less for either organization. Both have really bad skeletons in their closets. But then, both have also done some good to contribute to Philippine pool. But most of all, the players themselves are divided. Some used to be friends and now are treating each other with cold indifference.

The upper-class pros seem to be the only group of players who have favorable conditions. While the lower-class, semi-pros and amateurs who also make a living off pool seem to be having it worse coz they aren't able to maximize their chances of earning.

The atmosphere has changed here to say the least. And it's not for the better.

My advocacy is for those standing on the sidelines to simply shut-up and let the two factions settle it among themselves. Let us not throw more fodder into the flame.

Both claim to be right, the other wrong. Both claim to have the financial, political and administrative capacity to back their claims...I say...then let them do it as they say! Time will ultimately be their judge. We should atleast bear witness and let it flow. The more we interfere, the longer this is gonna get. I believe nobody wants that.'


@Hail Mary Shot - the player you're talking about (got lucky coz someone at the WPC06 pulled out) wasn't Ronnie. It was Jharome Pena who finished top-12th in the qualifiers and sneaked in via points earned coz two seeds didn't come to the WPC at that time. The other guy (11th) I think was Israel Rota or was it Rudy Morta? I forget.

Thanks for this post. It may be the most honest interpretation of what is happening currently in the PI. Because of my personal conflict of interests, I choose not to get involved. For me it is sad also, because I have grown fond of the Philippines, the friendly people, the wonderful climate for pool and the value our dollar still has over there.

It reminds me in some ways of the hostility created when the BCA sold their pool leagues and a splinter group was formed that started a new pool league. All the accusations hurled back and forth, and the difficulty amateur players faced in deciding what league to play in. Somehow some way, it all finally worked out. There remain two leagues at odds with each other, but both have found their rightful place in the pool firmament.

Perhaps time will heal this rift in the PI and both organizations can find a way to thrive and progress. I sure do hope so. I'm not getting any younger. :)

[JoeyInCali]

Are Luat and Andam still under Puyat now? I know they were under Puyat when they were still winning tournaments.
Andam has not gone outside of the islands for a while due to health reasons.
Luat is no longer sponsored by Puyat afaik.

[Hail Mary Shot]

I have no axe to grind here. And I can give you some facts that I know first-hand.

1) The BSCP case against Alex is definitely a boo-boo. They shouldn't have done that to Alex for it was simply out of line. Why would you punish somebody who didn't even get, or has never gotten, a single complaint from anyone in or any other tournament? Everybody loved Alex and his antics in event in question.

2) 95% of all top Filipino pros do belong with the BMPAP. However, not all share the same sentiments. Most of them simply want to play and earn thier living. So why are they there? Because their managers says so, and they are afraid that if they do otherwise, their benefactors would no more release a cent to them. Understandable......but inconvenient.

3) BSCP can be too strict and insensitive to the players. Players, being human as well, have certain needs and nuances that need some attention and consideration. The officers of BSCP do not pay attention to those. It's like; "You play. That's all you gotta do. And play good! You don't wanna play? Fine...we'll let the next guy play.". That shouldn't be how it is. You really wanna nurture a player, you gotta be aware of his life. What is he going through now? How will he play or how will things affect his game?

***

(Random conversations with several players. Translated from Filipino)

4) From lower-class BMPAP players themselves : "I wish I could also play in the BSCP tours. I heard they also had lotsa nice prizes up for grabs there. And the competition isn't that tough coz most of the tough guys are here! I think I can do well there too. But Boss XXX won't let me and the other guys go. Damn!"

From an upper-class BMPAP player: "Wow! I'm glad this rift between the two camps started. It's the best thing that ever happened to us! The Boss suddenly treats us a lot better now coz they're afraid to lose us to the other side. We're paid on time with better rates than ever! I hope they never patch things up." And when that pool league comes in....that'll definitely be the sh*t!

5) From an upper-class BCSP player: "This doesn't feel right. My career's going nowhere. And I think I'm not playing right. I need something...but I can't seem to know exactly what. To make things worse they (BSCP leaders) aren't listening to me. I hafta do something about this soon. But I swear I'm not going over the fence and join the BMPAP. I'd rather do something else."

6) Some upper-class BMPAP players did say something about their managers taking 40% off their winnings. But also added this statement: "Yeah they do take 40%, but I don't really mind. Hey...with what they have given me and my family...what they spent on me since way back....what I'm able to win just ain't cutting it! To be honest, I'm glad they're only taking 40%...when it should really be more. Yeah I did win a few, but I'm also aware of how long they've been backing me up and I believe I've cost them a lot more than what I have been able to win back. Of course I will always remember my debts. Not just the money, but also of gratitude. That's another reason why I can't leave boss for no matter what."


***

7) There used to be a time here when somebody announced a tournament, anybody who wanted can have the chance to join it. Now, the first question one will ask about a tour is "Whose is it? BSCP or BMPAP? I need to know which one coz I can't join the other."

8) The BSCP is poised to host a WPC without the top-caliber Filipino players. The BMPAP is ready to host its own WPC with ONLY the top-caliber Filipino players! Nobody else might/will be there.

Coz if the BMPAP players do go on with their boycott, the WPA will most probably see it as hostile action and let it be known to all its international affiliated players and sub-organizations not to join the BMPAP tournaments. (I'm not sure about this one. This is just a personal hunch.)


9) The BSCP did not nurture Ronnie Alcano and did not give him any special treament during the WPC06. Ronnie did most of it witht the help of his backer, Perry Mariano. Same with Lee Van's success with the national championships. (Jonathan Sy, LV's manager)

10) About Marlon Manalo, if the BSCP is referring to the times when he was mostly playing snooker and not yet concentrated on pool, then it might be a "Yes" they were closely nurturing him. It was a time when a younger Marlon showed prowess in snooker. Coz he ain't really satisfied with them lately. And he ain't alone.


....??? Let me stop here for now. Some other info I haven't confirmed and yet some I have confirmed but just too incriminating to post here. And that's to say it for both of them!


For me, I couldn't care less for either organization. Both have really bad skeletons in their closets. But then, both have also done some good to contribute to Philippine pool. But most of all, the players themselves are divided. Some used to be friends and now are treating each other with cold indifference.

The upper-class pros seem to be the only group of players who have favorable conditions. While the lower-class, semi-pros and amateurs who also make a living off pool seem to be having it worse coz they aren't able to maximize their chances of earning.

The atmosphere has changed here to say the least. And it's not for the better.

My advocacy is for those standing on the sidelines to simply shut-up and let the two factions settle it among themselves. Let us not throw more fodder into the flame.

Both claim to be right, the other wrong. Both claim to have the financial, political and administrative capacity to back their claims...I say...then let them do it as they say! Time will ultimately be their judge. We should atleast bear witness and let it flow. The more we interfere, the longer this is gonna get. I believe nobody wants that.'


@Hail Mary Shot - the player you're talking about (got lucky coz someone at the WPC06 pulled out) wasn't Ronnie. It was Jharome Pena who finished top-12th in the qualifiers and sneaked in via points earned coz two seeds didn't come to the WPC at that time. The other guy (11th) I think was Israel Rota or was it Rudy Morta? I forget.


thanks for the clarification DP. but may I ask somethin, what can you say about the turmoil during a February qualifier, where a BSCP official tried to change the rules in the middle of an almost concluded event? this happened after the BSCP and BMPAP had come to terms weeks earlier. I am familiar with politics and how politicians and lawyers try to divert legal matters by putting up late, unsigned and unpublished stipulations. those acts alone cause chaos and deemed illegal (breach of contract). what is the BSCPs answer to this? players busted their asses inorder to qualify and be seeded just to be informed later on that they (BSCP) will only take one player and reserve the other remaining 3 slots automatically to their own players who got eliminated or didn't attend in the qualifier? I'm sure anybody would get mad at this (most specially the players who joined the qualifier and won matches to qualify) since it is evident that the BSCP wasted the players' time and had given them nothing but false hope.

will they say again that they (BSCP) are the law and have the right to change their minds anytime as they wish? does this show arrogance and tyranny? what happened to diplomacy? what happened to the rules that were signed beforehand? was that all but BS? all those things written on paper are virtually useless if the BSCP itself doesn't abide by it. instead, they tried to enforce their own laws.


the BSCP buried itself with the Alex P. incident. if the BSCP was that sincere to impartiality and fairness, they should admitted that they were wrong and had apologized by now. the clock is still ticking and no form of apology coming from the BSCP. such lack of sensitivity indeed shows arrogance and stubborness to compromise. why should an organization like that gets respected if they cant even respect the players or apologize to them if they clearly wronged the person?

[sputnik]

To sum things up:

It is the COMMAND RESPONSIBILITYof BSCP to have allowed the situation of Philippine billiards to come to this. Whatever the nature or motivation the payers and managers had, they should have solved it with reason, explanation, and diplomacy to prevent a splinter.

Article IV Section J of the Constitution and By-Laws on National Sports Associations (BSCP for Pool) of the Philippine Olympic Committee (http://www.olympic.ph/natlsportsassoc.html)
states :

"To formulate qualification standards and license and accredit referees, umpires and arbiters and other game officials in the respective sports; decide, subject to appeal to the POC, all question on the amateur status and disciple of athletes as well as members of NSAs and all disputes between their members.

Reading through the link tells us about the real mandate of BSCP. THE BY-LAWS AND CONSTITUTION OF POC DO NOT LIE.

Whatever claims BSCP and BMPAP have are mostly for survival in business competition. Many of the statements are baloney anyways and all of us know that. BSCP has chosen to do business in its partnership with Raya Sports to step out of its mandate and go into business. This disguise is insulting our intelligence. I don't think Makabenta and company even have salaries working for BSCP. What is his motivation for sticking it out with BSCP with a court case and all the absence in sacrifices that is due the Filipino pool player?

Raya Sports has to use BSCP accreditation!!!

Again, I boldly predict: If and when the World 10-Ball of Raya will be successful, all these people behind BSCP will drop this NSA like a hot potato because they will have no use for its accreditation. What will these people do with BSCP when its (headache) mandate is to handle only amateur players and tournaments and to select players for national teams? Without taking advantage of WPA accreditation, it is actually a limiting and compromising position to be in as a producer of local and international tournaments. Upgrading WPA accreditation to an affiliate tournament organizer like Matchroom Sports' WPC is definitely a more prestigious accreditation that will not need BSCP anymore.

The WPA statement needs to recognize this distinction between pro and amateur in how they accredit organizations. If, in a country, a single association handles both amateur and professional, then there will be no problem. WPA also has to recognize the flaw of how accreditation can unjustly be used in a member country. They have no audit in that. This Philippine problem is a signal for WPA to give things a second hard look and do something about potential conflict of this nature in other countries. The statement asking factions to settle their differences is too weak a course of action to take because it is obvious that reforms are in order.

What compounds problems is that in reality, almost all the tournaments in our sport are professional in nature. We are not even a member sport in the Olympics! To side with the current policies and rules of WPA (this "siding" with an amateur organization) is probably traditional, but it will definitely not solve this Philipine problem, as in many other countries.

[JAM]

Four slots in World 10-Ball up for grabs in BSCP tilt

Four slots in the inaugural World Ten-Ball tournament on September will be up for grabs in the 3rd Billiards and Snooker Congress of the Philippines (BSCP) National Pool Championship.

Eliminations for the event will be held at the Star Billiards Center in Quezon City while the finals shall take place from August 26-31 at the Rizal Memorial Stadium in Malate, Manila.

Antonio "Ga-Ga" Gabica and Taiwanese Wu Chia-Ching already won slots in the World Ten-Ball tournament after successful stints in the Philippine Pool Tour legs in Mandaluyong and Puerto Princesa, respectively.

Gabica will see action with Marlon Manalo, the 2005 World Pool Championship 3rd placer; Jeffrey de Luna, the 2007 Manny Pacquiao International 9-Ball champion; and the young Jericho Ba?ares, the reigning Philippine Junior Champion as they chase the P400,000 winner's purse.

Prize money down to the 32nd placer will be given. The event is open to all Filipino players.

Other notable players who will be vying for the national title are: Leonardo Andam, Fidel Punzalan, Leonardo Didal, Edgar Acaba, Mario Tolentino, Elvis Calasang, Luis Saberdo, James Al Ortega, Alex Nobleza, Raymond Faraon and 14-year-old Jonas Magpantay, among others.

Alex "The Lion" Pagulayan won the first BSCP National Pool Championships in 2006, followed by Lee Vann "The Slayer" Corteza the succeeding year.

Is this a qualifier for the WPA-sanctioned WPC 10-ball championship?

Is that why it is limited to Filipino players only? :confused:

I wish the U.S. would have an American-only tournament. I cannot think of one time when any tournament in the United States was restricted to Americans only. :frown:

Or, in the alternative, MAYBE the BSCP is trying to let the Filipino people know that they are inviting ALL Filipinos to compete, including the ones that are on the other side of the political pool fence right now.

[sputnik]

Didn't we just read in their statement in this thread Argument #3:

"The BSCP's position on this issue is clear. To be included in the selection process, the BMPAP players have to be reintegrated into the BSCP system. As a minimum requirement for this, players who publicly denounced the BSCP leadership for alleged corruption and abuses should individually either retract their charges or file their complaints before the Philippine Olympic Committee (POC). "

After insulting the players of BMPAP short of saying that they are stupid enough to be used by BMPAP, they come up with this "invitation" to their 10-Ball tournament. After stealing glory from the BMPAP players' accomplishments by claiming credit for their success, BSCP will again propell them to further greatness by letting them join the World 10-ball tournament! Then they dangle their prize money to try to get public apology.

Ronnie Alcano had tears in his eyes when he testified in the Senate that BSCP shouted at him and drove him out the door during their qualifiers at Star Paper. This is a world champion who said that everywhere he goes, fans come to him for autographs. But in BSCP, he was rudely driven away the compound and soon after, he was attacked with evil text messaging regarding his personal life.

They expect Ronnie to salivate over their prize money?!!!

This just goes to show that BSCP has WPA accreditation but they do not have the credibility (without the BMPAP world champions). They need the champions but they just cannot control their arrogance. That statement demanding players to practically kneel to them in apology is really just quite very BSCP.

Sponsors will surely look for the likes of Efen Bata Reyes, Django Bustamante, Alex Pagulayan, Ronnie Alcano, Dennis Orcullo, Roberto Gomez, Joven Bustamante, Lee Van Corteza, etc.

Hey but who knows... BMPAP might just join their 10-ball tournament if they publicly apologize for all the horrible text messages (obviously from their camp), unfairness, cruelty (to Ronnie and Alex) to start with.

[BlowFish]

September is so close and someone is running out of time. Fingers will be pointed regardless of the outcome of WTBC and/or WPC (happening in Manila). This is not only about BSCP/RAYA and BMPAP. This is bigger than just about Philippine Pool. A lot are at stake. This is just a smokescreen as to what it really is.

[Hail Mary Shot]

Hey but who knows... BMPAP might just join their 10-ball tournament if they publicly apologize for all the horrible text messages (obviously from their camp), unfairness, cruelty (to Ronnie and Alex) to start with.

that would be a first in Philippine politics. :D

[pro9dg]

Who is sponsoring this event? Surely, companies cannot be queueing up to plough money into this bogus tournament?
Only the BMPAP players can give it credibility. European and Asian names don't fill arenas.
International players should ensure that the WPA have locked down the prize money before spending their own cash.

[JAM]

Who is sponsoring this event? Surely, companies cannot be queueing up to plough money into this bogus tournament?
Only the BMPAP players can give it credibility. European and Asian names don't fill arenas.
International players should ensure that the WPA have locked down the prize money before spending their own cash.

Please enlighten our dear readers, pro9dg.

Pray tell, who is sponsoring this event? Inquiring minds may want to know! :smile:

JAM

[bandido]

So what is the root of all this? Like the good Senator Nene Pimentel said " it's that five letter word, M-O-N-E-Y!

Putch Puyat, Jonathan Sy or Perry Mariano? I don't think that any possible earning from pool is even a full percent of what they make from their long existing personnal businesses.

What about Yen Makabenta? Why does he put everything on the line? Is it because RAYA Sports and Events is his ONLY source of income?

Now you guys tell me, specially the ones that are aware that nobody makes big bucks in this sport, who really means well for the sport? The one who makes it as his bread and butter or the ones who don't want anybody telling them how to love the sport and give back to it?

[sputnik]

Who is sponsoring this event? Surely, companies cannot be queueing up to plough money into this bogus tournament?
Only the BMPAP players can give it credibility. European and Asian names don't fill arenas.
International players should ensure that the WPA have locked down the prize money before spending their own cash.

BSCP should be okay because they eliminated Matchroom from the picture to come up with their 10-ball stuff. They don't have to buy the event anymore which is actually a good thing for the Philippines. It will also be good for Matchroom in a sense because they will not get paid late anymore.

I just do not know if they still can get support from the government because the least they could have done in gratitude was to instantly clear and explain the P10M from PAGCOR. I think they still have their current sponsors.

But yes, WPA should look into that purse and make sure that it is guaranteed in an international level. Locally, the now infamous Games and Amusement Board will see to it that there is indeed prize money. (Now, tell me, how can the GAB be bad for all professional sports?!!!)

[JAM]

...Now you guys tell me, specially the ones that are aware that nobody makes big bucks in this sport, who really means well for the sport? The one who makes it as his bread and butter or the ones who don't want anybody telling them how to love the sport and give back to it?

Bandido, you know me well enough to know that I will always have the players' well-being and interests in my thoughts and opinions. :)

That said, sometimes the players know which side of the bread is getting buttered. :wink:

The situation in Philippines is quite unique, having the government involved. It is a concept that is difficult to fathom, considering the government here in my country couldn't and wouldn't give a hill of beans for pocket billiard sports. :frown:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

LONG LIVE ALEX PAGULAYAN.
SUPPORT FILIPINO PLAYERS.
DO THE RIGHT THING AND SUPPORT ALEX!

JAM

[bandido]

DO NOT OVERLOOK THIS! Yen just needs to hold on up to this point. He makes it, World 10 Ball Ch., he can then drop the BSCP and all the associated restrictions of an NSA. He becomes the Barry Hearn of Asia and RAYA becomes the Matchroom of Asia.
To sum things up:


Whatever claims BSCP and BMPAP have are mostly for survival in business competition. Many of the statements are baloney anyways and all of us know that. BSCP has chosen to do business in its partnership with Raya Sports to step out of its mandate and go into business. This disguise is insulting our intelligence. I don't think Makabenta and company even have salaries working for BSCP. What is his motivation for sticking it out with BSCP with a court case and all the absence in sacrifices that is due the Filipino pool player?

Raya Sports has to use BSCP accreditation!!!

Again, I boldly predict: If and when the World 10-Ball of Raya will be successful, all these people behind BSCP will drop this NSA like a hot potato because they will have no use for its accreditation. What will these people do with BSCP when its (headache) mandate is to handle only amateur players and tournaments and to select players for national teams? Without taking advantage of WPA accreditation, it is actually a limiting and compromising position to be in as a producer of local and international tournaments. Upgrading WPA accreditation to an affiliate tournament organizer like Matchroom Sports' WPC is definitely a more prestigious accreditation that will not need BSCP anymore.


[/B]

Yen and company needs to control the Filipino Players in order to gain the above reputation!!! After that they drop all promises of financial support to players in their PBDF that they pirated from BMPAP Managers and they drop the lame duck NSA BSCP.

One BIG problem Yen!! No corporation here in the Philippines will pour in Sponsorship money into your event without our top Filipino Players!! That is the hard truth and that IS the reason why you have to use the BSCP.

[bandido]

There is nothing wrong with Yen wanting to be known as the Barry Hearn of Asia nor RAYA being the Matchroom of Asia. Actually that could have been something that a Nation can be proud of. That would have been a great destination had it not been for the journey.


Yen's mudflap message " Ride my bus or be roadkill"!

Clear enough folks?

[miko]

To be honest, it is very difficult to determine what side to believe. This rebuttal from the BSCP makes sense to me but on the other hand, the facts that BMPAP had posted before also made sense. The only thing that is clear to me is EITHER one group is lying or both groups are lying. They cannot both be truths because each groups' claims are exact opposites of the other. I am so confused and so sad that this is happening to the Filipino players. :( Can't you guys just get along?

As the saying goes. There's two sides to every story.. and the truth.. :D

[arian dacongan]

As the saying goes. There's two sides to every story.. and the truth.. :D


and palyers knows the truth!!!

they'd rather not join bscp thanto be put into subjection by the vultures..

[Island Drive]

As the saying goes. There's two sides to every story.. and the truth.. :D

Conflict forces truth.....

[Darth-Pinoy]

thanks for the clarification DP. but may I ask somethin, what can you say about the turmoil during a February qualifier, where a BSCP official tried to change the rules in the middle of an almost concluded event? this happened after the BSCP and BMPAP had come to terms weeks earlier. I am familiar with politics and how politicians and lawyers try to divert legal matters by putting up late, unsigned and unpublished stipulations. those acts alone cause chaos and deemed illegal (breach of contract). what is the BSCPs answer to this? players busted their asses inorder to qualify and be seeded just to be informed later on that they (BSCP) will only take one player and reserve the other remaining 3 slots automatically to their own players who got eliminated or didn't attend in the qualifier? I'm sure anybody would get mad at this (most specially the players who joined the qualifier and won matches to qualify) since it is evident that the BSCP wasted the players' time and had given them nothing but false hope.

will they say again that they (BSCP) are the law and have the right to change their minds anytime as they wish? does this show arrogance and tyranny? what happened to diplomacy? what happened to the rules that were signed beforehand? was that all but BS? all those things written on paper are virtually useless if the BSCP itself doesn't abide by it. instead, they tried to enforce their own laws.


the BSCP buried itself with the Alex P. incident. if the BSCP was that sincere to impartiality and fairness, they should admitted that they were wrong and had apologized by now. the clock is still ticking and no form of apology coming from the BSCP. such lack of sensitivity indeed shows arrogance and stubborness to compromise. why should an organization like that gets respected if they cant even respect the players or apologize to them if they clearly wronged the person?

To be honest....I don't know what to think about that incident.

I wasn't there and I keep hearing a lot of versions of that story. There is the BSCP version, the BMPAP version and a lot of other versions in between. I find it difficult to discern which is truth from fallacy with everything I've heard.

I've known the BSCP guys I've heard it from can be difficult sometimes to deal with. But then, the guys I heard the BMPAP versions from I have also known to exaggerate a few stories before. Both I considered incredible sources. Add to that a few people to tell it to me as if they were actually there...but weren't.

But I can say this, how you put it above (and is almost the same with the BMPAP version) is indeed very irregular to say the least. Such a qualifier shouldn't have been held that way as to create frustrations and false expectations from the players. I agree the players work their butts off just to compete for a spot. And to have them suffer a sudden change like that wasn't supposed to be the behavior of such an organization.

BSCP officials said that it had to be done because of an oversight of one of them. The BMPAP players felt cheated and couldn't accept any explanation. The then acting qualifier director lost his patience and mean words were spoken. At that point, eyes rolled, backs were turned and that was that.

I myself didn't like how it sounded. If it did happen exactly the way you said it above, and if it happened to me, I may have done the same thing as the BMPAP players.

But I was also aware that tensions were already high during that time. Given that atmosphere, animosity was thick and patience was thin. The situation was already volatile and all it needed was a spark. And apparently, that's exactly what it got....one little spark!


Or atleast so they say...

[sputnik]

To be honest....I don't know what to think about that incident.

I wasn't there and I keep hearing a lot of versions of that story. There is the BSCP version, the BMPAP version and a lot of other versions in between. I find it difficult to discern which is truth from fallacy with everything I've heard.

I've known the BSCP guys I've heard it from can be difficult sometimes to deal with. But then, the guys I heard the BMPAP versions from I have also known to exaggerate a few stories before. Both I considered incredible sources. Add to that a few people to tell it to me as if they were actually there...but weren't.

But I can say this, how you put it above (and is almost the same with the BMPAP version) is indeed very irregular to say the least. Such a qualifier shouldn't have been held that way as to create frustrations and false expectations from the players. I agree the players work their butts off just to compete for a spot. And to have them suffer a sudden change like that wasn't supposed to be the behavior of such an organization.

BSCP officials said that it had to be done because of an oversight of one of them. The BMPAP players felt cheated and couldn't accept any explanation. The then acting qualifier director lost his patience and mean words were spoken. At that point, eyes rolled, backs were turned and that was that.

I myself didn't like how it sounded. If it did happen exactly the way you said it above, and if it happened to me, I may have done the same thing as the BMPAP players.

But I was also aware that tensions were already high during that time. Given that atmosphere, animosity was thick and patience was thin. The situation was already volatile and all it needed was a spark. And apparently, that's exactly what it got....one little spark!


Or atleast so they say...

If Edwin can post the Senate transcript of Alcano's account on the incident here, we will have a first person account of the story. I think it will take only a page.

Edwin?

We can extend a little understanding to those whose patience was on the edge, but the situation being volatile or not, you do not treat a champion like that. It is very revealing of the arrogance and lack of consideration to players by BSCP. It is really no wonder why the players decided to stay as far away as they can from BSCP -- even the post-dated checks (in small amounts) of tournament winnings show how the players are not given importance. BSCP doesn't seem to care if players go around pool halls looking for someone to rediscount their checks.

[gopi-1]

[size=4] The event is open to all Filipino players.



Is that why it is limited to Filipino players only? :confused:

I wish the U.S. would have an American-only tournament. I cannot think of one time when any tournament in the United States was restricted to Americans only. :frown:


You misinterpreted it wrong Jennie, it says it's open to all Filipino players, there's no "only" there...

[bandido]

If Edwin can post the Senate transcript of Alcano's account on the incident here, we will have a first person account of the story. I think it will take only a page.

Edwin?

We can extend a little understanding to those whose patience was on the edge, but the situation being volatile or not, you do not treat a champion like that. It is very revealing of the arrogance and lack of consideration to players by BSCP. It is really no wonder why the players decided to stay as far away as they can from BSCP -- even the post-dated checks (in small amounts) of tournament winnings show how the players are not given importance. BSCP doesn't seem to care if players go around pool halls looking for someone to rediscount their checks.

Sorry guy, no dsl yet in my little island paradise that I just moved to. Am still posting in an internet cafe in the city as of the moment but will soon grant your request when I return to Manila this week.

Edwin<<will soon have wifi while on a cot by a white sand beach

[bandido]

To be honest....I don't know what to think about that incident.

...

You don't really need to get details of that incident but just the knowledge that it existed and the reason for why it happened is because of "the need to CONTROL".

Why the need to CONTROL? See my posts in this thread #37, 40 and 41 then you'll understand the root of all this. Yen and company's goal was fine but how they tried to get to it was the BIG mistake.

Baka akala nila sila lang ang kumakain ng kanin?

[bandido]

You misinterpreted it wrong Jennie, it says it's open to all Filipino players, there's no "only" there...

But it is for Filipinos' (BSCP members only - *see BSCP requirement in their press release) only because of it being the Philippine National Pool Championships.

[bandido]

Thanks for this post. It may be the most honest interpretation of what is happening currently in the PI. Because of my personal conflict of interests, I choose not to get involved. For me it is sad also, because I have grown fond of the Philippines, the friendly people, the wonderful climate for pool and the value our dollar still has over there.

It reminds me in some ways of the hostility created when the BCA sold their pool leagues and a splinter group was formed that started a new pool league. All the accusations hurled back and forth, and the difficulty amateur players faced in deciding what league to play in. Somehow some way, it all finally worked out. There remain two leagues at odds with each other, but both have found their rightful place in the pool firmament.

Perhaps time will heal this rift in the PI and both organizations can find a way to thrive and progress. I sure do hope so. I'm not getting any younger. :)

'twas made clear back in Feb Jay. Amateur is under the NSA or BSCP and the Professionals are under the GAB-accredited BMPAP.

[bandido]

thanks for the clarification DP. but may I ask somethin, what can you say about the turmoil during a February qualifier, where a BSCP official tried to change the rules in the middle of an almost concluded event? this happened after the BSCP and BMPAP had come to terms weeks earlier. I am familiar with politics and how politicians and lawyers try to divert legal matters by putting up late, unsigned and unpublished stipulations. those acts alone cause chaos and deemed illegal (breach of contract). what is the BSCPs answer to this? players busted their asses inorder to qualify and be seeded just to be informed later on that they (BSCP) will only take one player and reserve the other remaining 3 slots automatically to their own players who got eliminated or didn't attend in the qualifier? I'm sure anybody would get mad at this (most specially the players who joined the qualifier and won matches to qualify) since it is evident that the BSCP wasted the players' time and had given them nothing but false hope.

will they say again that they (BSCP) are the law and have the right to change their minds anytime as they wish? does this show arrogance and tyranny? what happened to diplomacy? what happened to the rules that were signed beforehand? was that all but BS? all those things written on paper are virtually useless if the BSCP itself doesn't abide by it. instead, they tried to enforce their own laws.


the BSCP buried itself with the Alex P. incident. if the BSCP was that sincere to impartiality and fairness, they should admitted that they were wrong and had apologized by now. the clock is still ticking and no form of apology coming from the BSCP. such lack of sensitivity indeed shows arrogance and stubborness to compromise. why should an organization like that gets respected if they cant even respect the players or apologize to them if they clearly wronged the person?

It's not anymore going to be just a public apology. This is now also going to cost them some jail time as the libel suit has been filed.

[arian dacongan]

i hope the "mounting pressure" from the lower rated pro players will not make bmpap give up their just cause of making sure phil. pro pool players will not become subjects of yen and cohorts...

i hope those players can see the scenario-- bscp(yen and cohorts) taken over the the phil. pool scene...dictating and driving them like dogs without giving them true dignity and nurturing...

[bandido]

To be honest....I don't know what to think about that incident.

I wasn't there and I keep hearing a lot of versions of that story. There is the BSCP version, the BMPAP version and a lot of other versions in between. I find it difficult to discern which is truth from fallacy with everything I've heard.

I've known the BSCP guys I've heard it from can be difficult sometimes to deal with. But then, the guys I heard the BMPAP versions from I have also known to exaggerate a few stories before. Both I considered incredible sources. Add to that a few people to tell it to me as if they were actually there...but weren't.

But I can say this, how you put it above (and is almost the same with the BMPAP version) is indeed very irregular to say the least. Such a qualifier shouldn't have been held that way as to create frustrations and false expectations from the players. I agree the players work their butts off just to compete for a spot. And to have them suffer a sudden change like that wasn't supposed to be the behavior of such an organization.

BSCP officials said that it had to be done because of an oversight of one of them. The BMPAP players felt cheated and couldn't accept any explanation. The then acting qualifier director lost his patience and mean words were spoken. At that point, eyes rolled, backs were turned and that was that.

I myself didn't like how it sounded. If it did happen exactly the way you said it above, and if it happened to me, I may have done the same thing as the BMPAP players.

But I was also aware that tensions were already high during that time. Given that atmosphere, animosity was thick and patience was thin. The situation was already volatile and all it needed was a spark. And apparently, that's exactly what it got....one little spark!


Or atleast so they say...
What oversight? Is it that BSCP didn't expect their players to finish second to BMPAP players in the round robin(4players per group) stage of the qualifiers. With that round robin result, they were afraid that none of their players will survive the elimination round so they took back one of the 2 slots in contention. This action then guarantees that one of their players get a slot and in so doing guarantees that BSCP gets some of their money back. What money? They enticed players to join BSCP/PBDF with promises of financial assistance such as a monthly stipend. But what these players didn't realize when they signed-up is that they, the players, are going to repay these stipends from their winnings.

That is the big difference between BMPAP Managers and the BSCP/RAYA's PBDF. BMPAP players don't need to pay back the salaries that they recieve while BSCP/RAYA's PBDF players monthly stipend accumulates as a loan that the players need to pay back from their winnings. Antonio Gabica has won in events produced by BSCP/RAYA and in tournaments like Guinness and WPA events where he automatically got seeded but as of today owes the BSCP/RAYA's PBDF over Php250,000.00. Ask any BMPAP player how much they owe their managers (except for advances on personal conveniences like automobiles or houses).....the answer NADA!

Which player then has the more peaceful mindset to focus on giving their all when playing? The BMPAP player that's who!

[bandido]

i hope the "mounting pressure" from the lower rated pro players will not make bmpap give up their just cause of making sure phil. pro pool players will not become subjects of yen and cohorts...

i hope those players can see the scenario-- bscp(yen and cohorts) taken over the the phil. pool scene...dictating and driving them like dogs without giving them true dignity and nurturing...

No pressure at all Arian. These so-called lower ranked players are starting to see the light. They have started changing their attitude and started running their lives as it should be, as professional athletes. The recent tournament results and media appearances show improvement. I see that they now understand what the BMPAP is all about and how they can benefit from it. Evidence? Just check out the tournament news here in the AzB home Page reports. There you'll see a lot of new names beating our top-rank players. So is the BMPAP about the players? You betcha!

[bandido]

Please enlighten our dear readers, pro9dg.

Pray tell, who is sponsoring this event? Inquiring minds may want to know! :smile:

JAM

Here's an answer to your question directly from where its happening Jam. I personally don't know where the funding for the W10BC is coming from.

Producing a pool event is just like producing a movie. It needs the stars to draw the viewers and without the hope for a high number of viewership then what return (exposure-wise) can the funding sponsors expect? RAYA cannot anymore flaunt nor guarantee to possible sponsors that the top Filipino Pool Players will play in their events specially after we issued an Advisory about the need for a "letter of intent to participate" from BMPAP players as a guarantee for corporate sponsors that these players will participate in a proposed event. If RAYA needs top-ranked Filipino Poolplayers then they need to get a written agreement/permission from the BMPAP because these players are BMPAP Talents. Movie Producers approach Talent Agencies that manages the Actors/Actresses that they need for their production. Pool Event production is the same as how it works in movie production Mr. RAYA!

RAYA is a pool event promoter or equivalent to a movie producer. Normally, talents beg this big producers to include them in their production. Basically, the talents are at these producers mercy. Well, it's a different situation now. The players (talents) are a part of the producer/promoter outfit, BMPAP. They, the players are now producers/talent managers too.

I see RAYA press releases about foreign players coming but still no announcement of who their sponsors are. This is truly odd as part of the media values in exchange for sponsorship is the sponsor's name being mentioned in press releases.
Secondly, there still isn't any statement from the Games and Amusement Board that Prize Money has been placed in Escrow and that is a GAB Event Permit REQUIREMENT. So how then can any player here have the urge to join such event? We're so fed up with these post-dated checks.

So, who are the sponsors for the World 10-Ball Championship?

[gopi-1]

What oversight? Is it that BSCP didn't expect their players to finish second to BMPAP players in the round robin(4players per group) stage of the qualifiers. With that round robin result, they were afraid that none of their players will survive the elimination round so they took back one of the 2 slots in contention. This action then guarantees that one of their players get a slot and in so doing guarantees that BSCP gets some of their money back. What money? They enticed players to join BSCP/PBDF with promises of financial assistance such as a monthly stipend. But what these players didn't realize when they signed-up is that they, the players, are going to repay these stipends from their winnings.

That is the big difference between BMPAP Managers and the BSCP/RAYA's PBDF. BMPAP players don't need to pay back the salaries that they recieve while BSCP/RAYA's PBDF players monthly stipend accumulates as a loan that the players need to pay back from their winnings. Antonio Gabica has won in events produced by BSCP/RAYA and in tournaments like Guinness and WPA events where he automatically got seeded but as of today owes the BSCP/RAYA's PBDF over Php250,000.00. Ask any BMPAP player how much they owe their managers (except for advances on personal conveniences like automobiles or houses).....the answer NADA!

Which player then has the more peaceful mindset to focus on giving their all when playing? The BMPAP player that's who!



250,000 pesos??? Start your paperworks Edwin, Gaga's bailing out! http://emoticons4u.com/happy/1202.gif

[sputnik]

In all fairness, if that is the agreement that Gaga had gotten into without deception, then it can be said that Gaga is simply spending more than his winnings.

At the same token, there is nothing wrong with managers taking commission off earnings. Do you think Manny Pacquiao would be this rich without his manager? It happens in all pro sports.

What I want to know is how the airfares and hotels of BSCP players are being paid.

[bandido]

Quoting from the PBDF section in the BSCP website:
Philippine Billiard Development Foundation

objectives:

1.NO COMMISSION CLAUSE. No 40% commission will be deducted from the players winnings, gifts, endorsement fees & etc. All expenses defrayed by PBDF in aid of their quest to compete locally & internationally will be returned to the foundation no more, no less.

This means that all monthly stipend advanced, airfare, hotel accomodation expenses, food allowances, visa fees and entry fees are to be returned by the financially-assisted player to the Philippine Billiard Development FOUNDATION.

[Peter@CEP]

No Comment !!


http://www.rayasports.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=477&Itemid=135


http://www.rayasports.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=478&Itemid=135

[bandido]

No Comment !!


http://www.rayasports.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=477&Itemid=135


http://www.rayasports.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=478&Itemid=135

Wow! Still no sponsors and BCA is putting their neck on the block!

[arian dacongan]

BSCP (yen and cohorts) are mighty quite lately..they must be ccoking up some dang again to serve to people who will be willing to buy their lies and stinks....

..to the people and entities in bed with yen and cohorts...how does it taste to be served up with dang with honey as icing... just wondering...

there is still time to do the right thing and renounce yen and cohorts(bscp,raya, ....)... :thumbup:

[bandido]

Quoting from the PBDF section in the BSCP website:
Philippine Billiard Development Foundation

objectives:

1.NO COMMISSION CLAUSE. No 40% commission will be deducted from the players winnings, gifts, endorsement fees & etc. All expenses defrayed by PBDF in aid of their quest to compete locally & internationally will be returned to the foundation no more, no less.

This means that all monthly stipend advanced, airfare, hotel accomodation expenses, food allowances, visa fees and entry fees are to be returned by the financially-assisted player to the Philippine Billiard Development FOUNDATION.

In addition to the above, I recently found out that this supposed foundation that they put together to assist players is NOT registered with the SEC according to the SEC online search. Not surprising as one needs 1 Million pesos in available funds deposited in the foundation's account to get a FOUNDATION classified entity registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Is this so called Philippine Billiards Development Foundation another one of their deceptions?

[sputnik]

This is really confusing now. BSCP controls accreditation, Raya Sports handles the marketing and organization, and PDBF handles the money (Foundations have a distinct advantage in Philippine taxation)?

I am starting to wonder if this is a design done over coffee. It lacks accounting and legal expertise, or probably it has them with secrecy as a requirement.