Tips of English?

[3kushn]

With all the years of hearing advice and taking lessons I've only heard the term Tips of English when told how much to spin the Cue Ball. Well what is 1 tip or 2 tips or 3? All I ever hear is just move the tip out from Center further. How much? Sure there's the practice balls with the circles and all that, but what good is it if we don't know exactly what the CB will do given a certain tip placement?

Sorry if you guys teach this. A lesson from Little Joe a while back started me down this road so this is my adaptation from him and other sources.

The term I like to use is Diamonds of English. Where do I place the tip to achieve a 1 Diamond spread, 2 Diamonds spread, or 3 diamonds across the short rail?

Here's what I practice (and also teach) till it works perfect, then my English is dialed in. This discussion can go one with other types of spin and situations but just want to illustrate one example. One Rail Kick.

Any suggestions? More importantly any pitfalls to teaching this? Should I just keep it to myself? Mind you I'm not a "trained" instructor just a student.

One Diamond (Tip) English

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1PWBI1kWBI2kbqI1kboX1kceW4uAAH@

Two Diamonds of English

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1PWJH1kWJH1kWJG1kWJH2kbRH1kdij1kdij4uAAQ@


Three Diamonds of English - This one is tough.
(Can anyone go farther? No cheating:wink: - Level cue)

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1PWJH1kWJH2kasI2kcgI4kcrB4kdYC4uCEM@

[Neil]

You make a good point that one tip of english means different things to different people. For me, with my stroke, it is 1/2 of the ferrule width. For someone with a different size shaft, it would not be the same. I do use one tip english = one diamond difference off the rail. You are probably right that it really should be called on diamond of english. But then you might have somebody trying to cue the cb from a diamond over.:eek:

Students should be taught to recognize just how much english will result in 1,2,and 3 diamonds difference. This gives you the 'base' for any other english you apply.

And, I don't believe it is possible to get 4 diamonds of english with a level stroke when shot like in your diagrams. Although, somebody probably has done it.

[3kushn]

Cue Ball Control is the source of much frustration. The answers I hear are, more or less spin, more or less speed, more or less high or low and combinations of these. Nothing specific, since like you say every player is different with different strokes and abilities. So this idea gives every player their personal and specific offsets.

I see three additional advantages to this. 1. A player will know exactly the CB path, given they take a line parallel to a rail. 2. It will enhance their focus and concentration on the CB and the contact point, rather than just thinking left, right, high, low. 3. By eliminating one of the variables, we can look elsewhere to analyze a result.

Personally I clock a very high percentage of shots playing 3C. Using the clock system I use, all I need to be able to do is count upto 6 and divide that number by 2. I can usually do that. Certainly a lot easier that subtracting 3 2/3 from 8 7/16 or whatever.

If learned you can put a CB through a needle.

Oh and by the way I'd like to see somone do 4 diamonds. I'd say that would be super human. Most have a really hard time with 3, me included. It has to be hit pretty well.

[Scott Lee]

Tom...The only problem I see, in using the example you have here, is this. I can get the CB to go to the same place as you, without moving any farther off center...but by moving up and down the vertical axis, at "1 tip off center". Follow, center, and draw will dramatically change how the CB comes off the rail, with the same amount of sidespin applied. Stroke speed also plays a huge role here.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

With all the years of hearing advice and taking lessons I've only heard the term Tips of English when told how much to spin the Cue Ball. Well what is 1 tip or 2 tips or 3? All I ever hear is just move the tip out from Center further. How much? Sure there's the practice balls with the circles and all that, but what good is it if we don't know exactly what the CB will do given a certain tip placement?

Sorry if you guys teach this. A lesson from Little Joe a while back started me down this road so this is my adaptation from him and other sources.

The term I like to use is Diamonds of English. Where do I place the tip to achieve a 1 Diamond spread, 2 Diamonds spread, or 3 diamonds across the short rail?

Here's what I practice (and also teach) till it works perfect, then my English is dialed in. This discussion can go one with other types of spin and situations but just want to illustrate one example. One Rail Kick.

Any suggestions? More importantly any pitfalls to teaching this? Should I just keep it to myself? Mind you I'm not a "trained" instructor just a student.

One Diamond (Tip) English

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1PWBI1kWBI2kbqI1kboX1kceW4uAAH@

Two Diamonds of English

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1PWJH1kWJH1kWJG1kWJH2kbRH1kdij1kdij4uAAQ@


Three Diamonds of English - This one is tough.
(Can anyone go farther? No cheating:wink: - Level cue)

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1PWJH1kWJH2kasI2kcgI4kcrB4kdYC4uCEM@

[3kushn]

Scott

I agree entirely that there are many variations to accomplishing the same thing. The point is what exactly are those variations and how exactly do I accomplish them. The only way to figure that out is for each individual to do the work to figure this out.

Below is an example which also has many ways to make but when cued with 1 diamond English on the Horizontal its the nuts. Simply stating "just a little right" makes the shot very difficult. I personally like using the Horizontal because it seems I get straighter lines. Some say that's the hard way and should be hit with 1 o'clock on the inner circle. I suppose I haven't done enough work on that cueing. Again that's the point. "A little high right" doesn't give me enough information. The missing info is up to me to figure out and will take some work. After the work is done I then have exact cueing points.

Anyway this is just one simple system I use and eliminates the need for a lot of other systems and their more complicated numbers variations and math.

Here's the math for this. 2 (OB Placement) divided by 2 (Long Rail divisor) = 1 (Diamonds of English)

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3HBUe2IalS4PHXR3cBUe3cYfi4kHXR4kAWi2kaME1uAII@

[lee brett]

if you learn to drive the cueball properly then the amount of screw (english), will be on how much power u want by ur cueaction in ur drawing back of the cue

[3kushn]

if you learn to drive the cueball properly then the amount of screw (english), will be on how much power u want by ur cueaction in ur drawing back of the cue
So as I improve my back stroke, I'll achieve more English? And there are different back strokes for different applications? I can deal with more English, I just have to stay calibrated as thing improve. But different back strokes?

If this is what you're saying, you've just complicated my simple solution and explains why some can't get similar results.

Back to the drawing board I guess.