eye dominance?

[mm4pool]

i have searched the older threads and have not come across an answer, so here goes. i play right handed and sometimes really struggle with my aim, other times i just walk up, see the line shoot and make everything. a buddy suggested that i might be left eye dominant. at times when i get out of shape with position and have had to shoot left handed the people watching have stated that i line up more natural looking when shooting leftie. any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mike:confused:

[Dead Crab]

Well, here is one possible solution.

http://www.azbilliards.com/gallery/showplayergallery.php?playernum=682

Ralf Souquet is obviously left-eye dominant and puts his left eye over the cue by turning his head. Other players might shift their head to get a cross-dominant eye over the cue.

What you need to do is determine what your head-eye position should be so that you see your cue perfectly lined up with the shot. This may or may not involve having it right over the cue.

I never found a position that was consistent, as my eye dominance shifts like crazy, so I close one eye (my dominant one). But that should be your solution of last resort.

Or, you can pop $80 for the Perfect Aim DVD, which may or may not be the answer for you.

[randyg]

Head position is more important than eye dominance!!!!!!SPF=randyg

[bullshooter69]

i have searched the older threads and have not come across an answer, so here goes. i play right handed and sometimes really struggle with my aim, other times i just walk up, see the line shoot and make everything. a buddy suggested that i might be left eye dominant. at times when i get out of shape with position and have had to shoot left handed the people watching have stated that i line up more natural looking when shooting leftie. any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mike:confused:

http://www.archeryweb.com/archery/eyedom.htm

[pooltchr]

i have searched the older threads and have not come across an answer, so here goes. i play right handed and sometimes really struggle with my aim, other times i just walk up, see the line shoot and make everything. a buddy suggested that i might be left eye dominant. at times when i get out of shape with position and have had to shoot left handed the people watching have stated that i line up more natural looking when shooting leftie. any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mike:confused:

I wouldn't waste a lot if time worrying about which eye is doniment. Focus on positioning your head over the cue in whatever position it needs to be to allow you to sight down the cue in such a way that what you see as a straight line is actually a straight line.
Like Randy said, head position will determine how you see the line. After all, you use both eyes to see.
I had the unfortunate issue of having to wear an eye patch for about 3 months. If you are going to only use one eye, then it might be a factor, but when you use both eyes, the ideal position will place the cue somewhere between both eyes.
Steve

[mm4pool]

thanks for all the feed back guys, i will try your suggestions and try to find someone to monitor my head position when shooting.:)

[DogsPlayingPool]

Hey Bullshooter,

That gal in your avatar sure has nice posture considering.

[Scott Lee]

As both randyg and pooltcher said, it's much more important to find out where the cue is lined up (generally somewhere under your head), when you PERCEIVE a straight line. Perception is different for all of us, which is why the instructional suggestions, that you MUST line up with the cue under your dominant eye...or you MUST line up with the cue centered under your chin...don't work for everybody. Find out where you "see a straight line"...make a note of where, under your face, the cue is lined up...and work on your fundamentals and preshot routine, so that you have the skill to deliver the cue, accurately, into the straight line that you see!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I wouldn't waste a lot if time worrying about which eye is doniment. Focus on positioning your head over the cue in whatever position it needs to be to allow you to sight down the cue in such a way that what you see as a straight line is actually a straight line.
Like Randy said, head position will determine how you see the line. After all, you use both eyes to see.
I had the unfortunate issue of having to wear an eye patch for about 3 months. If you are going to only use one eye, then it might be a factor, but when you use both eyes, the ideal position will place the cue somewhere between both eyes.
Steve

[Rich93]

I wouldn't waste a lot if time worrying about which eye is doniment. Focus on positioning your head over the cue in whatever position it needs to be to allow you to sight down the cue in such a way that what you see as a straight line is actually a straight line.
Like Randy said, head position will determine how you see the line. After all, you use both eyes to see.
I had the unfortunate issue of having to wear an eye patch for about 3 months. If you are going to only use one eye, then it might be a factor, but when you use both eyes, the ideal position will place the cue somewhere between both eyes.
Steve

I think it's dangerous to generalize like this (what I've bolded). I'm very right eye dominant, and I don't see a straight line to the object ball unless the cue is under my right eye. If I try to position the cue between my eyes, I am sighting to the right of the cue. Don't try to copy other players in this respect - the only person who can tell what your eyes see is you. What they see could be very different.

[pooltchr]

I understand what you are saying, but I stand by that comment. Stating that the ideal position is somewhere between the eyes still allows a variation of 3 or 4 inches. That would include positioning the cue under one eye or the other, or anywhere between. I do agree that individuals will see the straight line differently, but I have yet to see anyone who could accurately aim the cue when it is outside of that range. And from my experience working with students, those who see it best with the cue at the extreme edge of that range are a small minority. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that it would be quite rare. The brain receives information from both eyes, not just one.

Steve

[subdude1974]

I wouldn't waste a lot if time worrying about which eye is doniment. Focus on positioning your head over the cue in whatever position it needs to be to allow you to sight down the cue in such a way that what you see as a straight line is actually a straight line.
Like Randy said, head position will determine how you see the line. After all, you use both eyes to see.
I had the unfortunate issue of having to wear an eye patch for about 3 months. If you are going to only use one eye, then it might be a factor, but when you use both eyes, the ideal position will place the cue somewhere between both eyes.
Steve
As a former golf professional, playing and teaching, I will have to partially disagree with this. You dont use both eyes to see. There are a few people in the world that actually see with both eyes. Not saying you dont have vision out of both, but your brain only sees with one. That being your dominant eye. The non-dominant eye is used mainly for depth perseption and peripheral vision. You need to have your dominant eye looking down the shaft. If not, you will be the slightest amount off. Might not be much, but you will be off a little. There are some easy ways to find out which eye is dominant. I am sure someone has provided a good way of doing so.

For those of you that may doubt this, try this. Go to Walgreens, CVS or another drugstore and buy an eyepatch. Put it on and get into your car and drive. You wont go 10ft. before you say to yourself this is f'ed up. Why? 0 Depth perception. Anyway, good luck to you on your quest for knowledge.

Also, if it doesnt matter, then why put one eye behind the barrel of the gun? It is the exact same thing. The best way to see an exact line to any object is to put you eye on that line.
Sub

[LWW]

I hope this helps.

The following method is one of the easiest ways to checking eye dominance for both adults and even very young children:

http://www.archeryweb.com/archery/images/eyedom.gif

Extend both hands forward of your body and place the hands together making a small triangle (approximately 1/2 to 3/4 inch per side) between your thumbs and the first knuckle.

With both eyes open, look through the triangle and center something such as a doorknob or the bullseye of a target in the triangle.

Close your left eye. If the object remains in view, you are right eye dominant. If your hands appear to move off the object and move to the left, then you are left eye dominant.

To validate the first test, look through the triangle and center the object again with both eyes open.
Close your right eye. If the object remains in view, you are left eye dominant. If your hands appear to move off the object and move to the right, then you are right eye dominant.

One more alternative method is to assume the same position with your hands forming the triangle around the object and have both eyes open. Now, slowly bring your hands toward your face while continuing to look at the object with both eyes open. When your hands touch your face, the triangle opening should be in front of your dominant eye.

http://www.archeryweb.com/archery/eyedom.htm

LWW

[subdude1974]

This is the method I thought about explaining but I didnt feel like typing that much. But it is very effective.

[measureman]

I am left eye dominate just look at my picture. Left eye over the shaft.
Years ago i tried shooting with my right eye over the shaft and could not make 2 in a row.

[randyg]

Once again, you don't have to put your cue under your dominant eye. You have to put it were you see a straight line!....SPF=randyg

[Scott Lee]

subdude...While you may be a former professional golfer/teacher, it would appear that your information is outdated. Your statement implies that everyone has a dominant eye. That is simply not true, and has been documented many times. As Randyg said, it's far more important to line up the cue, where you PERCEIVE a straight line. Even more important, is being able to deliver the cue, accurately, into the perceived straight line.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

As a former golf professional, playing and teaching, I will have to partially disagree with this. You dont use both eyes to see. There are a few people in the world that actually see with both eyes. Not saying you dont have vision out of both, but your brain only sees with one. That being your dominant eye. The non-dominant eye is used mainly for depth perseption and peripheral vision. You need to have your dominant eye looking down the shaft. If not, you will be the slightest amount off. Might not be much, but you will be off a little. There are some easy ways to find out which eye is dominant. I am sure someone has provided a good way of doing so.

For those of you that may doubt this, try this. Go to Walgreens, CVS or another drugstore and buy an eyepatch. Put it on and get into your car and drive. You wont go 10ft. before you say to yourself this is f'ed up. Why? 0 Depth perception. Anyway, good luck to you on your quest for knowledge.

Also, if it doesnt matter, then why put one eye behind the barrel of the gun? It is the exact same thing. The best way to see an exact line to any object is to put you eye on that line.
Sub

[randyg]

That's true. There is a select portion of people who do not have a dominant eye. Guess they can never play pool.....:-)
randyg

[randyg]

As a former golf professional, playing and teaching, I will have to partially disagree with this. You dont use both eyes to see. There are a few people in the world that actually see with both eyes. Not saying you dont have vision out of both, but your brain only sees with one. That being your dominant eye. The non-dominant eye is used mainly for depth perseption and peripheral vision. You need to have your dominant eye looking down the shaft. If not, you will be the slightest amount off.

Don't tell Moe Norman that. If you do, he may not be the "greatest" ball striker of all time.

Might not be much, but you will be off a little. There are some easy ways to find out which eye is dominant. I am sure someone has provided a good way of doing so.

For those of you that may doubt this, try this. Go to Walgreens, CVS or another drugstore and buy an eyepatch. Put it on and get into your car and drive. You wont go 10ft. before you say to yourself this is f'ed up. Why? 0 Depth perception. Anyway, good luck to you on your quest for knowledge.

Also, if it doesnt matter, then why put one eye behind the barrel of the gun?

Because that's where the rear sight is.


It is the exact same thing. The best way to see an exact line to any object is to put you eye on that line.

Then there must not be "binocular vision".


Sub

I'm always up for a good debate....SPF=randyg

[LWW]

This is the method I thought about explaining but I didnt feel like typing that much. But it is very effective.

Thanks.

That is the best test I've ever found.

Being a target shooter as well as amateur photographer I have found many of the skills adaptable across the three.

Here's one commonly taught in target shooting and photography, but I don't think I've ever seen mentioned for pool.

Extend the arm of the same side as your dominant eye at a point several feet, or further, away from you.

Now watch as your finger bobs slightly as you breath. Your body is using the lens/gun/cue/arm as a lever and even the slight movement of your lungs is causing a large effect at the end of the "lever" you are using.

Yo correct this simply hold one's breath, no huge gasp of air is needed ... just consciously stop for a full second or two, as the trigger/shutter/stroke is fired.

LWW

[LWW]

subdude...While you may be a former professional golfer/teacher, it would appear that your information is outdated. Your statement implies that everyone has a dominant eye. That is simply not true, and has been documented many times. As Randyg said, it's far more important to line up the cue, where you PERCEIVE a straight line. Even more important, is being able to deliver the cue, accurately, into the perceived straight line.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Everyone DOES have a dominant eye.

Where it gets confusing is that in some people it is a slight dominance, and in others it is a huge difference.

Much study has been done on this in art and photography, and here's the gist of how and why it works.

Early man, being the first creature to develop aimed weapons for hunting such as spears and arrows, had a much higher survival rate among males who had a dominant eye.

The advantage of this genetic trait was that the dominant eye would focus clearly on a target, in that case dinner ... for this discussion a spot on a ball ... while the other eye would flit about and fill the brain in on any movement ... such as something seeing you as dinner ... that the dominant eye might need to shift to.

The brain actually only "SEES" a small section of any scene ... the center of concentration which is kept up to date in real time ... and the brain fills in the rest from info supplied by the non dominant eye.

That explains the phenomenon of how something can appear to sneak up on you unseen in an area which you are quite familiar with. You are concentrating on the center of attention and the brain fills in the rest of the picture with past data.

In art/photography this is expressed in the rule of thirds. IOW if you draw across any picture an imaginary tic tac toe board of a 3X3 grid and place the center of attention at one of 4 intersection points the brain will perceive it comfortably as the dominant eye locks on and the non dominant eye rolls around and surveys the rest. Place the center of attention dead center or off to an extreme edge and the brain is more confused and sees the scene as too busy.

I'm far from a pro level pool player, but the more we understand how each body part functions in the process the more likely we are to master the total.

LWW

[randyg]

I just went back and looked at my source info again. A small (?) portion of human beings do not have dominant eyes!!!!!! SPF=randyg

[LWW]

I will correct myself and say that I won't swear it doesn't exist ... but yes we agree that it would be a tiny population of people.

It is simply a genetic trait that doesn't lend itself to longevity.

LWW

[TheBook]

Try the Perfect Aim DVD. Gene addresses this.

http://www.perfectaimbilliards.com/

[Scott Lee]

LWW...Glad to see that you can back off, and admit that there are no "absolutes"...particularly with eye dominance. Here's another scientfic fact...a person can train themselves to CHANGE their dominant eye, from one to the other. Again, it doesn't matter if you have a dominant eye or not. It doesn't play a role in shooting pool. The only important factor is where your cue lines up (presumably under your head somewhere), where you PERCEIVE a straight line. That may be under your dominant eye, centered under your chin...or somewhere else.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I will correct myself and say that I won't swear it doesn't exist ... but yes we agree that it would be a tiny population of people.

It is simply a genetic trait that doesn't lend itself to longevity.

LWW

[genomachino]

i have searched the older threads and have not come across an answer, so here goes. i play right handed and sometimes really struggle with my aim, other times i just walk up, see the line shoot and make everything. a buddy suggested that i might be left eye dominant. at times when i get out of shape with position and have had to shoot left handed the people watching have stated that i line up more natural looking when shooting leftie. any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mike:confused:

Hi Mike,
It makes no difference if you shot righty or lefty. Your eyes will naturally be in the right position . You are stuck with your dominent eye and there is nothing that I know that can change it except if you lose an eye or have damage.

On different shots you don't get the eyes in that natural position as good and those are the ones you miss or have trouble with. On the days where you are making everything you are getting the eyes in the right position that day.

Perfect Aim teaches you how to get there all the time. It's the players that have learned Perfect Aim that are selling all the videos. Word of mouth is the best but sometimes not the fastest.

Have a great day Geno.......................

[poolplayer2093]

i have searched the older threads and have not come across an answer, so here goes. i play right handed and sometimes really struggle with my aim, other times i just walk up, see the line shoot and make everything. a buddy suggested that i might be left eye dominant. at times when i get out of shape with position and have had to shoot left handed the people watching have stated that i line up more natural looking when shooting leftie. any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mike:confused:

i've got a suggestion. don't waste your time thinking about stuff like that. just focus on making more balls than excuses and you'll do better than thinking about nonsense

[Neil]

LWW...Glad to see that you can back off, and admit that there are no "absolutes"...particularly with eye dominance. Here's another scientfic fact...a person can train themselves to CHANGE their dominant eye, from one to the other. Again, it doesn't matter if you have a dominant eye or not. It doesn't play a role in shooting pool. The only important factor is where your cue lines up (presumably under your head somewhere), where you PERCEIVE a straight line. That may be under your dominant eye, centered under your chin...or somewhere else.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I totally agree with this. Look at my avatar. My cue is under my left eye. Yet, I am very much right eye dominant.

[okinawa77]

There are also some people whose eye dominance changes from right to left. I am ambiodextrous, and mostly right eye dominant because I use my right hand the most. My cue is under my left nostril, as Scott Lee knows from my lesson. When I was using my left hand a lot for gun target practice, my eye dominance changed to my left eye, but it didn't affect my pool game. My eye doctor asked me if I had a head injury recently because he thought I may have gotten brain damage. He said that was the only way he knew of, that a person's eye dominance can change. So, I guess it makes sense that if I am using my left eye for sighting a lot, then my eye dominance will change. I just think it's interesting that I hold a handgun differently with my left hand, as opposed to my right hand...and I shoot mostly open bridge left handed, while closed bridge right handed.

A funny story..awhile back I was warming up before an APA 8 Ball match. I'm an SL7 and the team captain introduced me to a potential new teammate. I broke and ran the first rack. So, my team captain tells me, I have to shoot left handed. I then break and run 2 racks, left handed. I never did see that guy again. I really wasn't trying to B&R, I was just shooting balls around. I guess I just hit a gear for a few games.

[shankster8]

Hi Mike,
It makes no difference if you shot righty or lefty. Your eyes will naturally be in the right position . You are stuck with your dominent eye and there is nothing that I know that can change it except if you lose an eye or have damage.

On different shots you don't get the eyes in that natural position as good and those are the ones you miss or have trouble with. On the days where you are making everything you are getting the eyes in the right position that day.

Perfect Aim teaches you how to get there all the time. It's the players that have learned Perfect Aim that are selling all the videos. Word of mouth is the best but sometimes not the fastest.

Have a great day Geno.......................

Gene, your "system" requires that the cue be centered between the eyes (say within about 1/8 inch) if we are to be in what you call "Perfect Aim". Yes or NO. I don't expect to get an answer to this simple yes/no question, so, for the benefit of the forum, let's just say that, if this question goes unanswered, we should consider that a "Yes". If the answer is "No" I am sure you will be happy to reply.

I am fascinated by the fact that instructors like Randy, Steve, Scott etc. apparently haven't yet figured out that the cue must be centered to 'get the eyes in the right position'.

[pool101]

I have found that if I line up on a shot (especially a long cut shot), get down in positionwhere I feel I am in line,then close my non dominate eye and double ck my aim it tends to be off slightly, make the correction, open the non dominate eye verify I a

[pool101]

I have found what helps on a long cut shot is to follow your normal routine,
get in line,
bend over the shot,
stroke a few times until you feel right,
pause with tip at the cue ball,
Close your non dominate eye,
check your aim line,
this is where I will make a slight adjustment if needed,
open both eyes and verify that "you Believe" you are aimed on the right line.
then
stroke,
stroke,
back stroke, Pause..
Shoot through the cueball with a confident stroke.
If you fail to make the ball, set the shot up again (Using a trainer or paper donut in order to get the same shot) shot it until you get a consistent (over or under) cut.
Then make an adjustment in how you are aiming.
Of course I like my trainer for this as it gives you an aiming point that is always the same spot.
Mark
www.teachmepool.com

[pool101]

Sorry I fat fingered the last post.
I have found what helps on a long cut shot is to follow your normal routine,
get in line,
bend over the shot,
stroke a few times until you feel right,
pause with tip at the cue ball,
Close your non dominate eye,
check your aim line,
this is where I will make a slight adjustment if needed,
open both eyes and verify that "you Believe" you are aimed on the right line.
then
stroke,
stroke,
back stroke, Pause..
Shoot through the cueball with a confident stroke.
If you fail to make the ball, set the shot up again (Using a trainer or paper donut in order to get the same shot) shot it until you get a consistent (over or under) cut.
Then make an adjustment in how you are aiming.
Of course I like my trainer for this as it gives you an aiming point that is always the same spot.
Mark
www.teachmepool.com

[Dead Crab]

********************
Close your non dominate eye,
check your aim line,
******************

Bingo.

My theory:
If the image shifts when you close your ND eye, you either:
a) take a head position like Ralf Souquet where your non-dominant eye doesn't get a chance to screw you up
b)close one eye to eliminate the problem altogether
c) remain a fair-to-middlin' player who compensates for lousy aim by developing skills in other areas.

The closing of one eye when down on a shot would also likely identify those likely to benefit from the "Perfect Aim" method, as well as save $80 for those who do not possess the specific situational eye dominance issue that it claims to compensate for.

[LWW]

[QUOTE=LWW;1982690]

"Early man, being the first creature to develop aimed weapons for hunting such as spears and arrows, had a much higher survival rate among males who had a dominant eye."


[QUOTE=LWW;1982690]

How did scientists come up with this conclusion? (Imagining a neanderthal clubbing another over the head with one eye closed)

I'm going to have to agree with the instructors and the guys that think dominant eye is nonsense. I know a guy that's legally blind and if you throw a hummingbird on the pool table, he'd be able to skin it with the cue ball tables length. j/k. For a guy that's legally blind, he plays jam up.

A club isn't a aimed weapon such as a spear or an arrow.

The research that I read was derived using machinery to measure eye movement as a person viewed a scene.

The dominant eye will lock on the center of attention and the non dominant eye will move rapidly around the scene filling in the brain on minor details or movements.

I'm far from an instructor, but common sense dictates that lining up in a correct line will result in higher accuracy than lining up in what is not a correct line whether it is perceived to be correct or not.

Not to put words in their mouths, but I think what they are trying to explain is to line up in a manner where the perceived correct line and actual correct line will most likely be the same line.

LWW

[pooltchr]

I think what they are trying to explain is to line up in a manner where the perceived correct line and actual correct line will most likely be the same line.

LWW

Exactly! Wherever that may be is what we need to determine. It will be different for each individual.

Steve

[LWW]

Ahhhh ... consensus.

I myself am heavily eye dominant in the right eye.

I'm sure the more dominant one eye is the more critical it becomes to rely on that eye solely.

I don't often shoot with my left eye closed ... but I should.

I know that if I shoot with both eyes open I get a slightly different perception of what a straight line is compared to closing my left eye and using my right eye only. Due to parallax, the longer the shot the more alike the 2 perceived lines are.

OTOH if I close my right eye and rely solely on my left eye it appears that the angle of the shot has changed completely.

I suggest that everyone experiment with this to notice the differences.

To use something from photography ... people believe the camera never lies when in fact the camera almost always lies when it's in the hands of a skilled photographer. The difference between photography and snapshots is understanding how the camera lies and getting it to lie as desired.

Your eyes also lie to you in many circumstances as the brain cannot process every detail in a room constantly. To compensate the dominant eye concentrates on the point of focus and the non dominant gives the brain somewhat out of real time updates on the minutiae of the scene.

Parallax also explains why we sometimes miss very short shots when attention is distracted. It is physically impossible to have both eyes equidistant from the subject ... hence a slight lapse of concentration which has the brain process the combined data (As compared to dominant eye data.) creates a slight change in what is perceived to be a straight line in comparison with what is a straight line.

LWW

[pooltchr]

Relying on one eye is not the answer. Early this year I had some nerve damage to one eye, and had to wear an eye patch for a few months. I wore that patch over my non-D eye, and my game went south in a hurry. We use both eyes, working together, to see accurately. While one eye may be stronger than the other, it still takes both eyes working together to get it right.

Eye patches are a couple of bucks at your local drug store if you want to test it for yourself.

Steve