Most Arrogant Cuemaker???

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

I Saw Something In The For Sale Section That Made Me Think.......

In The Years That I Have Been Buying Cues, Who Was The Most Arrogant Cuemaker That I Have Had The Pleasure To Speak To????

So Here It Is, And I Wondered What Others Thoughts Were As Well......

I Was At The Super Billiards Expo, Wondering Around Buying Cues. I Didn't Know Any Other Collectors Than, So I Mainly Kept To Myself. I Had Bought 3 Or 4 Cues Already That Day, And Had Them In A Case I Was Carrying. I Stopped At Mike Sigels Booth To Look At The Cnc Crap He Was Selling, And To Make Fun Of It..... I Gave My Case To My Girl To Hold So I Could Pick Up This Ebony Cue, With The Most Wasted Ivory I Had Ever Seen. One Of The Guys Working The Booth With Mike, Tapped Him And Told Him To Turn Around.......... When Mike Turns And Sees It's A Younger (20ish Year Old) Guy Holding The Cue (me), He Laughs And Says

"why Don't You Just Put That Down, It's Not Like You Can Afford It Anyway"

My First Instinct Was To Smash Him In The Mouth With It, But I Kept My Composure. Laughed, Set His P.o.s. Cue Down, Got My Case Back, And Started To Walk Away..... My Attitude Got The Best Of Me When I Stopped And Turned, And Told Him To Go Ask Richard Black How Much The Young Kid Had Just Spent. Then I Smiled And Walked Away.


Has Anyone Else Had An Experience Like This? I Hope I'm Not The Only One.

[paulybatz]

this was anonymous I would have a few names to iterate.

[classiccues]

I Saw Something In The For Sale Section That Made Me Think.......

In The Years That I Have Been Buying Cues, Who Was The Most Arrogant Cuemaker That I Have Had The Pleasure To Speak To????

So Here It Is, And I Wondered What Others Thoughts Were As Well......

I Was At The Super Billiards Expo, Wondering Around Buying Cues. I Didn't Know Any Other Collectors Than, So I Mainly Kept To Myself. I Had Bought 3 Or 4 Cues Already That Day, And Had Them In A Case I Was Carrying. I Stopped At Mike Sigels Booth To Look At The Cnc Crap He Was Selling, And To Make Fun Of It..... I Gave My Case To My Girl To Hold So I Could Pick Up This Ebony Cue, With The Most Wasted Ivory I Had Ever Seen. One Of The Guys Working The Booth With Mike, Tapped Him And Told Him To Turn Around.......... When Mike Turns And Sees It's A Younger (20ish Year Old) Guy Holding The Cue (me), He Laughs And Says

"why Don't You Just Put That Down, It's Not Like You Can Afford It Anyway"

My First Instinct Was To Smash Him In The Mouth With It, But I Kept My Composure. Laughed, Set His P.o.s. Cue Down, Got My Case Back, And Started To Walk Away..... My Attitude Got The Best Of Me When I Stopped And Turned, And Told Him To Go Ask Richard Black How Much The Young Kid Had Just Spent. Then I Smiled And Walked Away.


Has Anyone Else Had An Experience Like This? I Hope I'm Not The Only One.

Bi... oh you said cue maker, not cue dealer. Oh ok... sorry.. carry on.. :D

I think this list could get long.. I would put PFD on because he used to pace Hopkins show like he was the second coming. But I have come to learn to appreciate these little quirks, as individuals all have. I am sure I have my moments (not really) :D ... But Sigel has been known to break his arm patting his own back, but he is funny as hell at dinner..

JV

[bells]

I had the exact same experience with Mike Sigel at Valley Forge. He is absolutely the least talented and the most arrogant cuemaker I have ever met. The only difference is that I never picked the cue up. He had "words" with me as I was looking. He said " dont even pick that cue up unless you have 6500 hundred bucks in your pocket". I laughed and thought of something rude to say but I didnt lower myself to say it. I want to say this was in 2003 or so but I cannot remeber exactly what year it was...........

[snowmon34]

I Saw Something In The For Sale Section That Made Me Think.......

In The Years That I Have Been Buying Cues, Who Was The Most Arrogant Cuemaker That I Have Had The Pleasure To Speak To????

So Here It Is, And I Wondered What Others Thoughts Were As Well......

I Was At The Super Billiards Expo, Wondering Around Buying Cues. I Didn't Know Any Other Collectors Than, So I Mainly Kept To Myself. I Had Bought 3 Or 4 Cues Already That Day, And Had Them In A Case I Was Carrying. I Stopped At Mike Sigels Booth To Look At The Cnc Crap He Was Selling, And To Make Fun Of It..... I Gave My Case To My Girl To Hold So I Could Pick Up This Ebony Cue, With The Most Wasted Ivory I Had Ever Seen. One Of The Guys Working The Booth With Mike, Tapped Him And Told Him To Turn Around.......... When Mike Turns And Sees It's A Younger (20ish Year Old) Guy Holding The Cue (me), He Laughs And Says

"why Don't You Just Put That Down, It's Not Like You Can Afford It Anyway"

My First Instinct Was To Smash Him In The Mouth With It, But I Kept My Composure. Laughed, Set His P.o.s. Cue Down, Got My Case Back, And Started To Walk Away..... My Attitude Got The Best Of Me When I Stopped And Turned, And Told Him To Go Ask Richard Black How Much The Young Kid Had Just Spent. Then I Smiled And Walked Away.


Has Anyone Else Had An Experience Like This? I Hope I'm Not The Only One.


I've dealt with a few, and it cracks me up, but on the flip side I've dealt with some real humble good people Jeff Olney, and Chris Byrne are 2 that come to mind.....
It takes hundreds to thousands of words to make a sale, but it only takes a few words to lose one..:rolleyes:

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

It takes hundreds to thousands of words to make a sale, but it only takes a few words to lose one..:rolleyes:

AT THAT POINT IN MY LIFE, HE WAS LUCKY TO NOT LOSE MORE THAN THE SALE..... LIKE MAYBE HIS TEETH.

I FIND IT FUNNY THOUGH..... IMAGINE HE HAD BEEN NICE TO ME, AND I HAD BOUGHT THE CUE, I'D BE IN THE HOLE FOR LIKE 5K TRYIN TO GET OUT OF THAT P.O.S.

SO MAYBE I SHOULD BE THANKFUL, HE SAAVED ME TIME, HASSLE, AND MONEY.

[RoyL]

Back in the 90's, Bludworth's son visited the local pool hall I used to play at. Finding out he was a cuemaker, I struck up a general conversation about cues, informing him that I played with a Schick.

He basically told me that to him Schick cues were subpar, and they were known to click. I think he called them "click Schicks."

I still have that cue, and it by no ways "clicks."

Needless to say, that experience with him just stuck in my mind. I mean he was a nice guy and everything, but all the times I've visited Schick and Mike Wheeler, I've never heard once either one of them denigrating any cuemaker.

And about Sigel cues, I picked up one of the "$3500" models off of eBay many years ago when one seller was dumping them on the cheap. I think there is one like it on eBay right now, unable to even get a $1000 bid.

[masonh]

it really stands out when one cuemaker downgrades another,especially when it is an unsolicited opinion.i guess if the cuemaker getting bashed is totally helpless or something and it is obvious to most people it is OK,but to hear one cuemaker say something bad about another equally or even more talented cuemkaer it is almost funny.you know right off it is out of some type of twisted jealousy or something.

[slayer]

PFD is on the top of my list orderd a cue sent deposit 800. for 2200. dollar cue called him many times sent pic.s of what I wanted everything was great till he calls 5 months later and says cue is done emailed pics and the cue was nothing like we talked about so he says well lets do a do over I don't know about you but if you can't get it right the first time why would I let you do it again so I said just send my deposit back 4 years and still waiting I WOULDN'T PI$$ ON HIM IF HE WAS ON FIRE

[Ken_4fun]

I called the "BLUD" about a cue.

He asked me what cues I have and what I liked.

He proceded to bash all the cues I had, then said I obviously like pretty cues verses great playing cues like his..:rolleyes:

Then he got real nasty. And I am thinking, was I doing him a favor? or was he doing me a favor?

I have had several cues build for me and most were a wonderful experience, and almost like waiting for a child to be born.

I wouldnt wish bad things on anyone,,,,but with Blud, I almost do.

That is saying something.

Ken

[cutter]

I had the exact same experience with Mike Sigel at Valley Forge. He is absolutely the least talented and the most arrogant cuemaker I have ever met. The only difference is that I never picked the cue up. He had "words" with me as I was looking. He said " dont even pick that cue up unless you have 6500 hundred bucks in your pocket". I laughed and thought of something rude to say but I didnt lower myself to say it. I want to say this was in 2003 or so but I cannot remeber exactly what year it was...........

At that show, I heard him tell a guy don't you dare touch that cue, it's probably worth more than the house you live in.
Takes all types. Old Bob Moochie came by the booth I was in with Chester Krick, Looked at our names and just shook his head and walked away. Guess I could take that as an endorsement.!:)

[manwon]

that is the problem on AZB... Everyone is scared to say what they really think because someone will take offense and bash them for it. The reality is that it only hurts us because we don't get all of the info we need in alot of situations.

I wish everyone would speak out.

I wish everyone would speak out.[/

So tell us what you think, don't around the Bush!!!:D

[SirBanksALot]

The most arrogant two cuemakers I have every talked to (other than just phone conversations) are Paul Drexler and Arnot Q Wadsworth.

Most of the ones I've talked to are humble decent guys that are just out to make a living, in a very tough business.

[manwon]

it really stands out when one cuemaker downgrades another,especially when it is an unsolicited opinion.i guess if the cuemaker getting bashed is totally helpless or something and it is obvious to most people it is OK,but to hear one cuemaker say something bad about another equally or even more talented cuemkaer it is almost funny.you know right off it is out of some type of twisted jealousy or something.

Tap!! Tap!!!! Tap!!!!!! I totally agree Mason, however, I also think it is just as bad when a Cue Maker intentionally misrepresent their cues. I think this is the worst thing a Cue Maker can do, I mean their is nothing wrong with pride, we all have it. But to encourage or sponsor Hype and to misrepresent your products to stroke your own ego, is equally as negative, I mean a product will speak for itself. The words of an individual whom is known to have integrity, is far more powerful than any statement, such as World Champion!!!!! Enough Said!!!!!!!! or any other like statements that are frequently used on the INTERNET Forums!!!!!!!!

Just my thoughts!!!!!

[JoeyInCali]

I don't know who the most arrogant is but Tad is the most humble.
DZ and MT also stand out as among the most humble makers I've talked to.
The most arrogant "maker" I know has a site I can't post here.
You can draw a football field length with his cues and he has a cue that sold for a hundred grand or so. So, he claims.

[Hidy Ho]

that is the problem on AZB... Everyone is scared to say what they really think because someone will take offense and bash them for it. The reality is that it only hurts us because we don't get all of the info we need in alot of situations.

I wish everyone would speak out.

I am with you ... but on the other hand, it's (entirely or remotely) possible that one person's bad experience with a cue maker may not represent overall picture of the cue maker.

Jazz <--- not really sure what point I'm trying to make.

[Kelly_Guy]

I am with you ... but on the other hand, it's (entirely or remotely) possible that one person's bad experience with a cue maker may not represent overall picture of the cue maker.

Jazz <--- not really sure what point I'm trying to make.

Maybe you are saying everyone has a bad day now and then, and perhaps if one person experienced that bad day with a cuemaker and reported it as "the most arrogant cuemaker" when there are no other occurances or deserving reputation, it might not be the most fair assessment.

Kelly

[BlowFish]

I don't know who the most arrogant is but Tad is the most humble.
DZ and MT also stand out as among the most humble makers I've talked to.
The most arrogant "maker" I know has a site I can't post here.
You can draw a football field length with his cues and he has a cue that sold for a hundred grand or so. So, he claims.

Come'on Joey, give us the 2 letter word. ;)

Are they besides each other? :D

[Hidy Ho]

Maybe you are saying everyone has a bad day now and then, and perhaps if one person experienced that bad day with a cuemaker and reported it as "the most arrogant cuemaker" when there are no other occurances or deserving reputation, it might not be the most fair assessment.

Kelly

You're hired as my PR man ...

Of course, if more than one person report a similar experience, then we can see that there is a pattern developing. Or, if the experience comes from a known source of respect, it carries more weight with me.

[masonh]

i see a pattern with captain hook.marcus he definitley saved you.you would be sick if you were sitting on a $6500 Sigel right now.can you imagine having abunch of those cues in today's market?

[JoeyInCali]

i see a pattern with captain hook.marcus he definitley saved you.you would be sick if you were sitting on a $6500 Sigel right now.can you imagine having abunch of those cues in today's market?
Some lucky soul in Japan has a bunch of em.
I think he commited harakiri last year.

[Kelly_Guy]

You're hired as my PR man ...

Of course, if more than one person report a similar experience, then we can see that there is a pattern developing. Or, if the experience comes from a known source of respect, it carries more weight with me.

Haha, you can retain my services... for 2 cents a year, that is usually what my opinion is worth. :D :p :D

Kelly

[DrJ]

..........

[Ken_4fun]

The most arrogant two cuemakers I have every talked to (other than just phone conversations) are Paul Drexler and Arnot Q Wadsworth.

Most of the ones I've talked to are humble decent guys that are just out to make a living, in a very tough business.



Pfd was a challenge. He built me a nice cue but he was a challenge.

Ken

[SirBanksALot]

Pfd was a challenge. He built me a nice cue but he was a challenge.

Ken

Could not agree more, every Drexler I've been able to whack around with played pretty sporty.

The other individual I mentioned is a ....... well, being a very refined guy :D , discretion prevents me from saying much more.

How about a thread for

Most Famous Cuemaker That Is A Humble & Down To Earth Guy But Had Every Right To Be Arrogant Because They Make Great Cues!!

I've got a least one nominee (and probably two) for that list!

[johnf_34]

I called the "BLUD" about a cue.

He asked me what cues I have and what I liked.

He proceded to bash all the cues I had, then said I obviously like pretty cues verses great playing cues like his..:rolleyes:

Then he got real nasty. And I am thinking, was I doing him a favor? or was he doing me a favor?

I have had several cues build for me and most were a wonderful experience, and almost like waiting for a child to be born.

I wouldnt wish bad things on anyone,,,,but with Blud, I almost do.

That is saying something.

Ken


I had pretty much the same type of conversation and also talked about his cuemaking equipment with him. He told me his equipment and cues were the best you can buy! He has a guy here sold on that fact. This guy has three of Blud's cues and showed them to me....I told him I might talk to him about buying one....and he said only if you have 10,000 each for them! It didn't phase me a bit, but I definitely wouldn't pay even half that for all three and the case they were in....

[powerlineman80]

I Saw Something In The For Sale Section That Made Me Think.......

In The Years That I Have Been Buying Cues, Who Was The Most Arrogant Cuemaker That I Have Had The Pleasure To Speak To????

So Here It Is, And I Wondered What Others Thoughts Were As Well......

I Was At The Super Billiards Expo, Wondering Around Buying Cues. I Didn't Know Any Other Collectors Than, So I Mainly Kept To Myself. I Had Bought 3 Or 4 Cues Already That Day, And Had Them In A Case I Was Carrying. I Stopped At Mike Sigels Booth To Look At The Cnc Crap He Was Selling, And To Make Fun Of It..... I Gave My Case To My Girl To Hold So I Could Pick Up This Ebony Cue, With The Most Wasted Ivory I Had Ever Seen. One Of The Guys Working The Booth With Mike, Tapped Him And Told Him To Turn Around.......... When Mike Turns And Sees It's A Younger (20ish Year Old) Guy Holding The Cue (me), He Laughs And Says

"why Don't You Just Put That Down, It's Not Like You Can Afford It Anyway"

My First Instinct Was To Smash Him In The Mouth With It, But I Kept My Composure. Laughed, Set His P.o.s. Cue Down, Got My Case Back, And Started To Walk Away..... My Attitude Got The Best Of Me When I Stopped And Turned, And Told Him To Go Ask Richard Black How Much The Young Kid Had Just Spent. Then I Smiled And Walked Away.


Has Anyone Else Had An Experience Like This? I Hope I'm Not The Only One.


I would have told that p.o.s. to shove that stick up his arrogant ass. Then show him all the cues you just bought and tell him you'll continue to spend your money elsewhere with REAL cuemakers. Then ask him how it felt to get raped by Efren in the IPT after he talked all that trash about how he owned Efren.

After seeing how crappy he has shot in the last few tournaments I've seen him in, I would want his overpriced junk anyways.

[pooldawg8]

I was at the Super Billiards Expo a few years back & I was also looking at siegels cues. When a man ask Mike if he would sign an autograph for his son(which was standing there beside his father) Mike looked down at the 7 or 8 year old boy and said I`ll sell you an autographed cue ball for $20. The father looked at his son and said forget it he`s not worth $20. I started to laugh and walked away thinking the same thing. I`ve never went back to his stand since that day.

[pooltableproCP]

Since I have been called to task regarding my post, I will relate an ON TOPIC story. 7 or 8 years ago, at one of the BCA shows, I stopped by to look at some cues at Dan Dishaw's booth. After looking at what he had to offer, I inquired as to the estimated cost of building a cue to my liking. His reply, "well, that depends on if you are going to waste my time." You can imagine what I was thinking at the time. Now this is the disappointing part of the story for you juicy rumor hounds, instead of getting fired up and saying somethings that I might regret, I did the following.....I asked him to repeat what he said, and to explain what he meant by it. Guess what? He just got done explaining his entire history of cuemaking and pricing to a couple of jackasses 30 min. earlier. Turns out, they were looking to knock off some designs for their "imported custom line" of cues. Dan gave them some of his trade info, only to find out it was being gathered for a production company. I am glad that Mr. Dishaw and I talked it over like adults, versus escalating to threats and name calling. Sorry to disappoint you all. Neg Rep deserved right?

Chris

[TWOFORPOOL]

When Mike Siegel played he was the most Arrogant, Whinning, Lucky piece of crap the pool world has EVER SEEN. What makes you think making cues would change anything. JMHO

[Dave38]

When Mike Siegel played he was the most Arrogant, Whinning, Lucky piece of crap the pool world has EVER SEEN. What makes you think making cues would change anything. JMHO
I hope Earl Strickland never gets into cue building, he's another of the small (very small) group of pros that fits that description. A friend of mine's son plays high level tourneys and we have had the displeasure of meeting him on numerous occasions.
Dave

[TWOFORPOOL]

Dave 38 has probably one of the most nicest humble persons standing beside him in his avatar I have had the pleasure to meet in playing pool for 35 years. Mr. Massey is a true gentleman and one of the biggest assets the pool world has.

[Dave38]

Dave 38 has probably one of the most nicest humble persons standing beside him in his avatar I have had the pleasure to meet in playing pool for 35 years. Mr. Massey is a true gentleman and one of the biggest assets the pool world has.
Tap, Tap, Tap, I have had the pleasure of meeting him a few times, and what a great human being!!!! When this pic was taken, he came down to meet his friend Bruce Bartlette, along with Andy Segal to put on a small exhibition for us at a local pub. It happen to be snowing most of the day, about 6-8 inches I believe, but he still showed up and we had a great time. We need more heros like him.
Dave

[cueman]

I know some people take peoples words to be arrogant and maybe they are or maybe you missed what just happened a few minutes earlier to them. I have built cues that sell for thousands of dollars and to be honest I cringe when I watch some of the people who have no clue on how to gently handle a cue, grab them up and bang them into other cues in the display. My guess is that Mike Sigel had already had that happen and was aggravated about it. Or you watch a guy grab a break jump cue butt and proceed to point at all the other cues hastily with the joint pin. I am not saying anyone was justified in what they said or did, but anyone can be having a bad day.
I will not mention names, but the most arrogant cuemakers I have seen are not the ones who can actually sell a cue for thousands of dollars, and are stuck on themselves. Instead it is the ones who couldn't put a tip on good six months ago and now think they know more than the guys who have been doing it many years and are very verbal about it. Some are fast learners indeed....

[SwissChris]

I Saw Something In The For Sale Section That Made Me Think.......

In The Years That I Have Been Buying Cues, Who Was The Most Arrogant Cuemaker That I Have Had The Pleasure To Speak To????

So Here It Is, And I Wondered What Others Thoughts Were As Well......

I Was At The Super Billiards Expo, Wondering Around Buying Cues. I Didn't Know Any Other Collectors Than, So I Mainly Kept To Myself. I Had Bought 3 Or 4 Cues Already That Day, And Had Them In A Case I Was Carrying. I Stopped At Mike Sigels Booth To Look At The Cnc Crap He Was Selling, And To Make Fun Of It..... I Gave My Case To My Girl To Hold So I Could Pick Up This Ebony Cue, With The Most Wasted Ivory I Had Ever Seen. One Of The Guys Working The Booth With Mike, Tapped Him And Told Him To Turn Around.......... When Mike Turns And Sees It's A Younger (20ish Year Old) Guy Holding The Cue (me), He Laughs And Says

"why Don't You Just Put That Down, It's Not Like You Can Afford It Anyway"

My First Instinct Was To Smash Him In The Mouth With It, But I Kept My Composure. Laughed, Set His P.o.s. Cue Down, Got My Case Back, And Started To Walk Away..... My Attitude Got The Best Of Me When I Stopped And Turned, And Told Him To Go Ask Richard Black How Much The Young Kid Had Just Spent. Then I Smiled And Walked Away.


Has Anyone Else Had An Experience Like This? I Hope I'm Not The Only One.


Yea with Mr. Capone and thats the reason i will never by a capon cue ever

[Michael Webb]

I really hate threads like this and I was doing my very best to stay out of it because let's face it, THESE THREADS SUCK!
BUT, as a member of this forum and as a Cue maker, I have to share this with you, For those who know me, it's on my home page for all to see. It is done purely out of respect and I add to it when ever it's justified to do so.

I would like to thank the following craftsmen for expanding my knowledge of cue construction: Paul Drexler, Jeff Prather, Mark Bear, Paul Fanelli, Skip Tasker, Dan Janes, Michael Capone and Murray Tucker. Linen wraps, (Ted Harris). Finishing, Tony Scianella, Dan Dishaw, Leonard Bludworth, Joe Porper, Tim Scruggs, Mike Cochran, Paul Mottey, and New Age Auto

For what ever it's worth.

[asiasdad]

I DON'T WANT TO JUST LASH OUT, I ASKED FOR EXAMPLES.

IF THEY CAN GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM, IT'S JUST GONNA PROTECT OTHER BUYERS FROM GOING THROUGH THE SAME BS.

Marcus,

My personal experience of the most arrogant cuemaker would be a conversation with Mike Lambros regarding making JP's for a new cue of his that I just paid 3k to own. He told me to not waste his time. May he suck on sea weed and bad sushi the rest of his life.

Danny

[snowmon34]

it really stands out when one cuemaker downgrades another,especially when it is an unsolicited opinion.i guess if the cuemaker getting bashed is totally helpless or something and it is obvious to most people it is OK,but to hear one cuemaker say something bad about another equally or even more talented cuemkaer it is almost funny.you know right off it is out of some type of twisted jealousy or something.


Mason you have no worries...you make a great playing cue!!!

[snowmon34]

AT THAT POINT IN MY LIFE, HE WAS LUCKY TO NOT LOSE MORE THAN THE SALE..... LIKE MAYBE HIS TEETH.

I FIND IT FUNNY THOUGH..... IMAGINE HE HAD BEEN NICE TO ME, AND I HAD BOUGHT THE CUE, I'D BE IN THE HOLE FOR LIKE 5K TRYIN TO GET OUT OF THAT P.O.S.

SO MAYBE I SHOULD BE THANKFUL, HE SAAVED ME TIME, HASSLE, AND MONEY.


Marcus,

I agree with you 100% consider yourself lucky your not burried in one of Mike sigels cues

[Koop]

Your the best, Thanks.;)

HEY, what are you doing posting here? Don't you have cues to make :D

Koop - see's bocote and ebony in his future

[classiccues]

Well, well, well... some great comments going. So I gather this forum is just for posting the "good" vibes you get from pool and people in general??? No posting the bad or questionable dealings you have???? Great.. I guess when everyone craps it smells like roses then.
I used to work for a guy that was super anal about being stolen from. He installed cameras, a metal detector and so forth. He would constantly try and screw customers. So what I saw was a guy who was protecting himself from... people like him. When I see posts that deter threads like this one, I get the feeling MAYBE the gander is afraid of the goose.
The internet allows the sharing of experiences and ideas like no other medium that has ever been used. The world is shrinking, better get used to the idea. I run my business very by the books and I treat my customers way better than I probably would have 15 years ago. There are at least 4 forums dedicated to the area's / towns I service. One bad decision and I could find myself on the wrong side of the thread. Luckily I watch those boards and I wouldn't be afraid to counter if I ever had to.

JV

[Irish634]

Well, well, well... some great comments going. So I gather this forum is just for posting the "good" vibes you get from pool and people in general??? No posting the bad or questionable dealings you have???? Great.. I guess when everyone craps it smells like roses then.
I used to work for a guy that was super anal about being stolen from. He installed cameras, a metal detector and so forth. He would constantly try and screw customers. So what I saw was a guy who was protecting himself from... people like him. When I see posts that deter threads like this one, I get the feeling MAYBE the gander is afraid of the goose.
The internet allows the sharing of experiences and ideas like no other medium that has ever been used. The world is shrinking, better get used to the idea. I run my business very by the books and I treat my customers way better than I probably would have 15 years ago. There are at least 4 forums dedicated to the area's / towns I service. One bad decision and I could find myself on the wrong side of the thread. Luckily I watch those boards and I wouldn't be afraid to counter if I ever had to.

JV

Posting good and bad experiences is a good thing that helps educate people and there isn't/shouldn't be anything wrong with that. It's the constant whining and 5 pages of argument that only one person is right and everyone else is just ignorant that makes me go right on by.

So aside from that, how have you been Joe? :D

[AzHousePro]

OK, now that I have weeded out all of the "he said/she said" BS in this thread, can you guys play nice? I think both posters who this war revolves around were a little bristly, but one of them can't let it go.

Mike

[Sev]

Ronnie Powell has been one of my most bizarre experiences. I contacted him once to identify a cue that was supposedly made in his shop. The next thing I know I am in a three way battle between Him, Edwin Reyes and a builder named Lindsy.
The guy has his compound surrounded by fences and razor ribbon and swears his competition is out to assassinate him. By the time I extricated myself from the fiasco I was very glad he is living in the Philippines.

[ratcues]

I have approached cue making like this:

Anybody can make a cue.
Anybody can make a cue play a certain way.
You are not only buying my cue, but you are buying me as well.
I need to play as well as my cues.

[metallicane]

That's a shame about all of the bad Sigel stories because he was great with me. When we designed the cue, he wanted a mostly black cue, but I wanted another exotic wood and we went with an Australian Oak and it turned out great. It plays great too. Like I said he was very nice and actually had the cue to me when he promised.

I saw him in Vegas a few years later and he had went right up to me and said hi. Could not have been nicer. In 2006 in New Jersey, I was looking at the scores of the 14.1 tournament and he again came up to talk to me and see what was up. I couldn't have had a better experience with a cue maker.

[Ken_4fun]

That's a shame about all of the bad Sigel stories because he was great with me. When we designed the cue, he wanted a mostly black cue, but I wanted another exotic wood and we went with an Australian Oak and it turned out great. It plays great too. Like I said he was very nice and actually had the cue to me when he promised.

I saw him in Vegas a few years later and he had went right up to me and said hi. Could not have been nicer. In 2006 in New Jersey, I was looking at the scores of the 14.1 tournament and he again came up to talk to me and see what was up. I couldn't have had a better experience with a cue maker.

The REAL shame is that some people who have a huge God given talent, most have worked hard yes, but most of the world we are average in most things, but these few have a God given or great genitics or whatever and CHOOSE to be an ass.

As children we are told we can be whatever we want to be, but actually our choices are limited. Either by intellengence, talent, or circumstances. And frankly, that is why we should be more thankful, for what we have, friends and family.

As an old man of 44, I understand this more and more each day. I am so thankfull for my 19 and 17 year old daughters and their accomplishments and hearts.

As Forest Gump says,,,,,and thats all I have to say about that.

Ken

[Arnot Wadsworth]

The most arrogant two cuemakers I have every talked to (other than just phone conversations) are Paul Drexler and Arnot Q Wadsworth.

Most of the ones I've talked to are humble decent guys that are just out to make a living, in a very tough business.

I know I cannot please everybody all the time but I sure try. If I have offended you please forgive me.

Arnot

[Purdman]

I know I cannot please everybody all the time but I sure try. If I have offended you please forgive me.

Arnot


Arnie baby, you have the biggest balls of anybody in this thread! It's easy to bust somebody's balls on the Internet. It takes a decent human being to come on here and apologize if you have ever offended anyone. REP for ya buddy.
Purdman :cool:

[BlowFish]

OK, now that I have weeded out all of the "he said/she said" BS in this thread, can you guys play nice? I think both posters who this war revolves around were a little bristly, but one of them can't let it go.

Mike

Finally, it's now a pleasure to read without the BS.


I know I cannot please everybody all the time but I sure try. If I have offended you please forgive me.

Arnot

I salute you Arnot.

[JoeyInCali]

I know I cannot please everybody all the time but I sure try. If I have offended you please forgive me.

Arnot
I ordered a cue from Arnot eons ago.
This was right before he moved to his place now, before he got his Grizzly lathe and right before that big typhoon that hit Florida.
Understanbly there was a delay but I still got his $179 purpleheeart merry widow then.
But, I still don't believe his story about he robbing the Miz and Buddy Hall on barboxes with him shooting behind the back w/his shoe laces tied together.:D

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

I really hate threads like this and I was doing my very best to stay out of it because let's face it, THESE THREADS SUCK!
BUT, as a member of this forum and as a Cue maker, I have to share this with you, For those who know me, it's on my home page for all to see. It is done purely out of respect and I add to it when ever it's justified to do so.

I would like to thank the following craftsmen for expanding my knowledge of cue construction: Paul Drexler, Jeff Prather, Mark Bear, Paul Fanelli, Skip Tasker, Dan Janes, Michael Capone and Murray Tucker. Linen wraps, (Ted Harris). Finishing, Tony Scianella, Dan Dishaw, Leonard Bludworth, Joe Porper, Tim Scruggs, Mike Cochran, Paul Mottey, and New Age Auto

For what ever it's worth.

SO IT SHOULD BE ALRIGHT FOR CUEMAKERS TO TREAT CUSTOMERS LIKE CRAP???

I FEEL IT'S MORE THAN FAIR THAT THE BUYING PUBLIC KNOWS THESE STORIES. IF I COULD PREVENT MIKE FROM EVER SELLING ANOTHER CUE, I WOULD.

HAS ANYONE EVER TREATED YOU LIKE THAT WHEN YOU WENT TO BUY ANYTHING?

[Rybord]

OK, now that I have weeded out all of the "he said/she said" BS in this thread, can you guys play nice? I think both posters who this war revolves around were a little bristly, but one of them can't let it go.

Mike
Thanks Mike, Maybe there's a need for a section called

" The War Room "

[Fatboy]

I had the exact same experience with Mike Sigel at Valley Forge. He is absolutely the least talented and the most arrogant cuemaker I have ever met. The only difference is that I never picked the cue up. He had "words" with me as I was looking. He said " dont even pick that cue up unless you have 6500 hundred bucks in your pocket". I laughed and thought of something rude to say but I didnt lower myself to say it. I want to say this was in 2003 or so but I cannot remeber exactly what year it was...........

let him say that to me. LOL Actually I like Mike we get along good, we never discuss pool, we talk about marketing, he shouldnt be like that though, its just so much easier to be nice to people,

[ridewiththewind]

let him say that to me. LOL Actually I like Mike we get along good, we never discuss pool, we talk about marketing, he shouldnt be like that though, its just so much easier to be nice to people,


I agree! You definitely catch more flies with honey...do not understand why more vendors do not get this...or people in general.

Lisa

[JoeyInCali]

I agree! You definitely catch more flies with honey...do not understand why more vendors do not get this...or people in general.

Lisa
Ok u got me.
Full splice curly pink ivory with bdr points.
Free joint protectors inlayed w/gold.

[ridewiththewind]

Ok u got me.
Full splice curly pink ivory with bdr points.
Free joint protectors inlayed w/gold.

LoL...you're working it, aren't you?!! :) I was thinking something along the lines of tulip butt into BdR nose. Or visa versa. Thinking that the combination of the two rosewoods might make for a killer player. :D

I have to admit, it is pretty tempting. ;)

Lisa

[Ken_4fun]

HAS ANYONE EVER TREATED YOU LIKE THAT WHEN YOU WENT TO BUY ANYTHING?


Yes but only once....;)

Ken

[emf123]

How did this thread make it this far without the mention of the one and only..........(drumroll please)..........


deanoc!!!!!!!!!!!


But we'd have to expand the topic to be inclusive of all people, not just cuemakers.

Staying on topic, I think all cuemakers are a little arrogant - they've worked hard on their craft and think their way is the best way, which I can respect. Demeaning potential customers, regardless of who you are, is no way to do business and the word will eventually get out, thanks to forums like AZ. Sometimes it's not what people say but what they don't say, you have to read between the lines a little.

Eric

[ridewiththewind]

How did this thread make it this far without the mention of the one and only..........(drumroll please)..........


deanoc!!!!!!!!!!!


But we'd have to expand the topic to be inclusive of all people, not just cuemakers.

Staying on topic, I think all cuemakers are a little arrogant - they've worked hard on their craft and think their way is the best way, which I can respect. Demeaning potential customers, regardless of who you are, is no way to do business and the word will eventually get out, thanks to forums like AZ. Sometimes it's not what people say but what they don't say, you have to read between the lines a little.

Eric

I would have to respectfully disagree with this comment. There are several cuemakers here who are more than forthcoming with information/resources...and will even share certain techniques with one another, for public view.

I believe that because of this sharing, we are seeing some real quality cues right out of the gate from some of the newer makers on the scene.

Lisa

[Michael Webb]

SO IT SHOULD BE ALRIGHT FOR CUEMAKERS TO TREAT CUSTOMERS LIKE CRAP???

I FEEL IT'S MORE THAN FAIR THAT THE BUYING PUBLIC KNOWS THESE STORIES. IF I COULD PREVENT MIKE FROM EVER SELLING ANOTHER CUE, I WOULD.

HAS ANYONE EVER TREATED YOU LIKE THAT WHEN YOU WENT TO BUY ANYTHING?

Did I say whether it was right or wrong, NO!
I am a member of this forum just like you are, If I personally think these kinds of threads suck, Then it's my right just as it is yours. Did I miss something or am I not an individual anymore.

[Michael Webb]

Just for the record, Marcus and I get along very well. Please don't read anything into the above.
Thank you

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

Just for the record, Marcus and I get along very well. Please don't read anything into the above.
Thank you

IT'S ALL GOOD IN THE HOOD

[Sev]

I would have to respectfully disagree with this comment. There are several cuemakers here who are more than forthcoming with information/resources...and will even share certain techniques with one another, for public view.

I believe that because of this sharing, we are seeing some real quality cues right out of the gate from some of the newer makers on the scene.

Lisa

I agree.

I find most people run into trouble in any industry when they use the wrong approach with the people they are contracting with. Especially if, even if it is unintentional, that you appear to be telling them how to do their business. Lets face it, a good first impression can mean everything no matter what side of the counter you are on.

There is no shortage of people out there who's egos are so large that they need a shoe horn to be able to get through a door. However even they can be dealt with in a satisfactory manner when using the proper approach.

[emf123]

I would have to respectfully disagree with this comment. There are several cuemakers here who are more than forthcoming with information/resources...and will even share certain techniques with one another, for public view.

I believe that because of this sharing, we are seeing some real quality cues right out of the gate from some of the newer makers on the scene.

Lisa

No doubt many are forthcoming and willing to help others out, and it's great!!! There are all kinds of good cuemakers out there, it's a buyers market right now. I'm refering to the predisposition of their personalities. Many of them were at one time a master machinist, or cabinet maker, or in other professions that require a great deal of precision. These type of people are typically very confident in their abilities, and can be somewhat arrogant. I'm not talking like Terrell Owens or Mike Sigel arrogant, but I can guarantee you that they think their way is the best way of doing things. If they didn't, they probably wouldn't be making cues in the first place.

Eric

[ericdraven]

there are several i would disagree with posted , but opinions are like ass#####s every one has one. threads like this are a time and place in time for one or more incidents that mean nothing.

[Kelly_Guy]

No doubt many are forthcoming and willing to help others out, and it's great!!! There are all kinds of good cuemakers out there, it's a buyers market right now. I'm refering to the predisposition of their personalities. Many of them were at one time a master machinist, or cabinet maker, or in other professions that require a great deal of precision. These type of people are typically very confident in their abilities, and can be somewhat arrogant. I'm not talking like Terrell Owens or Mike Sigel arrogant, but I can guarantee you that they think their way is the best way of doing things. If they didn't, they probably wouldn't be making cues in the first place.

Eric

I disagree with you. I think there are a lot of cuemakers who think the way they do things is the best way they know how. Many cuemakers keep an open mind regarding their technique and learning, and they adapt if they learn a better way. Eventually they may get to a point that less and less changes occur because they become comfortable with their techniques and so no reason to change, but many cuemakers always keep their quest for knowledge open and keen.

I am sorry to hijack the thread, but I remembered a post by Sherm Adamson that shows my point, and I have to dig up and post it. This is a quote from Sherm, Cuesmith on here.

"OK Since I'm bragging about my wraps I'll take it a step farther and tell this little story! About 15 years ago I bought one of the original manuscripts David Kersenbrock wrote on cuemaking and cuemaking machinery. I'd been making cues a while but I'm always looking for a better way to do something. I spent a few hours talking about it with Dave at a trade show or tournament somewhere and decided his promise of "lifetime free telephone tech support" along with the purchase of his manuscript made it a bargain! I took him up on that offer and called him several times for some advise on different things. Several years later I purchased my CNC machine and made arrangements to pick it up in Minneapolis. The trip took me through Chicago so I made arrangements to stop by Omega Cues and spend a little time with David, while I was passing through. He gave me the "nickel tour" of Omega and answered a few questions for me before we took off for lunch! When we got in my car he saw a cue case and asked to see some of my recent work. He was amazed at the linen wrap on my playing cue! He had me tell him, step by step, how I made it so smooth! He told me he could do a leather wrap in about 20 minutes, start to finish, but he could work all day and not get a linen wrap looking and feeling that good! It was, to me, probably the best compliment I ever received about one of my cues! Coming from one of my mentors and people I had so much respect for, it meant so much more!"

Sherm was a new cuemaker, getting help from Kersenbrock, buying his manuscript, buying his machinery, learning things from him, and when Kersenbrock feels the linen wrap Sherm does, he quickly reverses the situation. David didn't care Sherm was a new cuemaker, didn't care Sherm was the student, all he cared about was he found something someone was doing better than he, and he made Sherm tell him everything step by step.

Certainly arrogance can be found in cuemakers, but do not presume all think the way they do things is the absolute best way. Many (the best??? the most humble???) never want to quit learning and striving to improve their product whether it comes from their own hand or help from others.

Kelly

[SirBanksALot]

I know I cannot please everybody all the time but I sure try. If I have offended you please forgive me.

Arnot

Consider yourself forgiven and good rep to you. You're obviously more than just another pretty face.:D

(Did you really do all that stuff to The Miz and Mike Siegel like Joey said:eek: :eek: !!)

[Murray Tucker]

You're obviously more than just another pretty face.:D



Arnot and pretty in the same sentence..............don't see that very often...........:eek: .......:D

[1-pocket-player]

ME!!!
I don't make cues but I am sure if I did they would be the best.;) ;) :D

-Andy

[Drawman623]

I know some people take peoples words to be arrogant and maybe they are or maybe you missed what just happened a few minutes earlier to them. I have built cues that sell for thousands of dollars and to be honest I cringe when I watch some of the people who have no clue on how to gently handle a cue, grab them up and bang them into other cues in the display. My guess is that Mike Sigel had already had that happen and was aggravated about it. Or you watch a guy grab a break jump cue butt and proceed to point at all the other cues hastily with the joint pin. I am not saying anyone was justified in what they said or did, but anyone can be having a bad day.
I will not mention names, but the most arrogant cuemakers I have seen are not the ones who can actually sell a cue for thousands of dollars, and are stuck on themselves. Instead it is the ones who couldn't put a tip on good six months ago and now think they know more than the guys who have been doing it many years and are very verbal about it. Some are fast learners indeed....

Marcus, I see your point that Mr. Sigel offended you with some discrimination behavior. I'm sorry you had to experience that. I do agree with Cueman, however, that there may be a bigger picture. While nothing justifies rudeness in the example you provide, there may be more going on like another young person who had screwed up previously. Once bitten twice shy...

All I want to add is that people are capable of some incredibly stupid moves. For example, and in response to your question about experiencing arrogance: I incurred the wrath of one of your favorites, Pete Tascarella when I shipped him a cue for authentication...by ground UPS without any insurance. He was offended by my ignorance and let me know about it in no uncertain terms. I looked up to him as a great cuemaker. I packed that cue securely and tried to meet appropriate precautions as a young collector who thought he had a prize cue. In my ignorance I offended someone in whom I had great respect. It hurt a lot to be called stupid or moron or whatever word he chose at that time. All I remember was trembling as I hung up the phone. I've never spoken to him since but in the decade that followed, I realized what a bonehead move I had made. I for one feel fortunate that I didn't have the balls to criticize him in a forum...if I had, I would regret my remarks today. The best revenge is to live well.

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

Marcus, I see your point that Mr. Sigel offended you with some discrimination behavior. I'm sorry you had to experience that. I do agree with Cueman, however, that there may be a bigger picture. While nothing justifies rudeness in the example you provide, there may be more going on like another young person who had screwed up previously. Once bitten twice shy...



I GET WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, BUT THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THE WAY I WAS TREATED.

I HAVE A RETAIL STORE, AND DEAL WITH BROKE TEENAGE KIDS ON AN EVERYDAY BASIS. I HAVE NEVER INSULTED SOMEONE THE WAY HE INSULTED ME. EVEN IF IT WAS THE KID THAT CAME IN, AFTER THE KID THAT RUINED MY DAY. IT'S NOT GOOD BUSINESS, AND THERE IS NO EXCUSE.

ONCE BITTEN, TWICE SHY.... IS A SONG, NOT A WAY TO CONDUCT BUSINESS. EVEN MORE SO, NOT RETAIL BUSINESS.

[Michael Webb]

I GET WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, BUT THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THE WAY I WAS TREATED.

I HAVE A RETAIL STORE, AND DEAL WITH BROKE TEENAGE KIDS ON AN EVERYDAY BASIS. I HAVE NEVER INSULTED SOMEONE THE WAY HE INSULTED ME. EVEN IF IT WAS THE KID THAT CAME IN, AFTER THE KID THAT RUINED MY DAY. IT'S NOT GOOD BUSINESS, AND THERE IS NO EXCUSE.

ONCE BITTEN, TWICE SHY.... IS A SONG, NOT A WAY TO CONDUCT BUSINESS. EVEN MORE SO, NOT RETAIL BUSINESS.

Remember that walking advertisement thing we were talking about, It just applies more to certain individuals.:D

[DaveK]

Remember that walking advertisement thing we were talking about, It just applies more to certain individuals.:D

So what if I get a nice shirt made with the name of the cuemaker who sends me a free cue ? Would I be one of those "certain individuals" ? Please ?

Dave

[Dak21st]

Just a comment ,maybe just a bad day on his part.Jerry Mcworther rubbed me the wrong way in Florida at Stroud's show.He came up to me and told me I can't be sellin my ****ing cues there. I had Showman's and Searings and I was only showing them to people who wanted to see their work and was not trying to sell them.I did this at the end of the show when Martyne knew me and wanted to take some pics of the cues I had, by the way ,which were out in the car and not in the show with me.He did not make the comment until I came back with my cases and cues for pics.He made me feel very un-comfortable and made himself look bad to foriegn investors.John and Dennis were there but had no examples of their work, but I did.Once again this was after the show when people were loading up and leaving.

[Michael Webb]

So what if I get a nice shirt made with the name of the cue maker who sends me a free cue ? Would I be one of those "certain individuals" ? Please ?

Dave

Hi Dave
Trust me, if I told you the whole definition, you wouldn't want to be one of those people, Very, Very private joke between Marcus and I.

[Arnot Wadsworth]

Consider yourself forgiven and good rep to you. You're obviously more than just another pretty face.:D

(Did you really do all that stuff to The Miz and Mike Siegel like Joey said:eek: :eek: !!)

Only in my dreams :)

Good Cuemaking,

[TATE]

Since I don't work with too many cue-makers except for repairs, I must say I am totally amazed at how nice they have been to me when I called them with questions about old cues.

I have been contacted from out of the blue by Barry Szamboti (who sent me a lot of historic information), Pete Tascarella, Bill Stroud, Bill Schick, Joel Hercek, and many others. I found each cue maker to be extremely helpful and respectful, taking time out of their busy schedule to discuss things about cue making history.

In general, I have found cue makers to be a knowledgeable, friendly group of craftsman, who love making pool cues. They have to deal with a lot of difficult customers too.

Arrogance does not seem to be a big problem with cue makers. I've found most to be quite helpful and quite humble.

If I had to pinpoint a deficiency, I would say many are lacking in the organization and administrative skills necessary to maintain a structured delivery schedule, especially when working on many multiple projects. I see a lot of cue makers wasting their personal time on routine operations, when those could be done by less skilled helpers.

Chris

[WilleeCue]

Just ask yourself if the guy you are dealing with really deserves your business.
You got choices and money talks.

It is a correct assumption that people are reluctant to say any thing bad about someone else here for fear of being given bad rep points.
Rep points were intended to be a good thing but can be used as punishment also.

I can see no constructive reason for any cue maker to speak badly of another cue makers work. There is nothing wrong with pointing out the differences between your cue and another's but it should be done with the respectful understanding that the person you are talking to just might like the other one better for the exact reasons you do not.

If a cue maker does not think he is making a cue that is as good as any other (better than most) then he should stop kidding himself and do something else.
Some might see that as arrogance but it really is not.

[WilleeCue]

Marcus,My personal experience of the most arrogant cuemaker would be a conversation with Mike Lambros regarding making JP's for a new cue of his that I just paid 3k to own. He told me to not waste his time. Danny

I often get asked to make a set of custom Joint Protectors for my cues.
I tell the person that a good set can be had for about $20 at the local pro shop.
If I spend the time to make a set the cost would be somewhere around $100
or more depending on the amount of work that it takes to make them.
I can understand people wanting matching custom Joint Protectors for their Custom cue
and if I were selling my cues in the thousand dollar range a matching set would be included.

[asiasdad]

I often get asked to make a set of custom Joint Protectors for my cues.
I tell the person that a good set can be had for about $20 at the local pro shop.
If I spend the time to make a set the cost would be somewhere around $100
or more depending on the amount of work that it takes to make them.
I can understand people wanting matching custom Joint Protectors for their Custom cue
and if I were selling my cues in the thousand dollar range a matching set would be included.

I offered (Lambros) $250.00 for a set of 3 to match the cue. Paul Mottey did not give me any sh*t when he made them for the cue i ordered from him, in fact he has been one of the best I have ever dealt with.

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

I offered (Lambros) $250.00 for a set of 3 to match the cue. Paul Mottey did not give me any sh*t when he made them for the cue i ordered from him, in fact he has been one of the best I have ever dealt with.

THAT'S BECAUSE PAUL MOTTEY AND JAMES WHITE ARE TWO OF THE NICEST CLASSIEST GUYS IN THE BUSINESS. YOU CAN'T GO WRONG DEALING WITH THEM

I'VE NEVER DEALT WITH LAMBROS, BUT HAVE HEARD ENOUGH OTHER BAD STORIES THAT I NEVER PLANNED TO EITHER.

[commswatch]

this was anonymous I would have a few names to iterate.


I dont have that problem at all....Mike Sigel, w/o question, was the most arrogant A$$ I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with. Had a New, never chalked Sigel cue that had dozens of bubbles in the finish. I asked him to refinish it, he came back with a $500 quote, and proceeded to remind me of all his titles and accomplishments...blah blaj blah. His time is worth so much etc etc. what an A$$.

[jhendri2]

Every cuemaker I've dealt with has been exceptionally nice to me. One was definitely more arrogant than all the others, but he was still good to me.

A quick story about Wes Hunter, I bought one of his cues in the late 90's from the Billiard Factory in San Antonio. It's a beautiful cue that I still have. Anyway, one day I somehow scratched the ferrule pretty deep. I saw Wes at one of the tournaments in Austin and without comment, took the shaft back to Alamagordo and put a new ferrule and tip. Mailed the shaft back to me and never charged me a dime for anything. Service like this makes the greatest advertising. Word of mouth of an extremely happy customer.

Richard Black has done me right also. I asked him when he was building my split diamond black barron if he could find a very nice piece of birdseye maple as the foundation, he said he would look around his shop to see what he had. When I recieved the cue, it had a gorgeous piece of maple. I called to thank him for the cue and the wonderful work he did. He said I got the best piece in the shop. Whether it was true or not, it still made me feel like a valued customer.

Chad Carter is another example of real customer service. I bought one of his early cues from eBay and the finish wasn't the greatest. He admitted that during that period he was experimenting with different finishes and asked if I would send him the cue so he could put a new finish on it. he never charged me anything either. New finish and new wrap. The cue wasn't for me so I paid it forward and gave to a gentlemen on here was in college and had been shot resulting in him losing his part of his eyesight.

Jim

[Matt_24]

I guess I've never experienced an arrogant cuemaker.

I've emailed with Dennis Searing a few times a year for years (just checking in) and he is always super friendly and nice.

I met Rick Howard when I was a young, broke, Airman living in Ft. Walton Beach FL. He practically gave me a cue, used to practice with me for hours, and had me out to his shop - just to hang out. Super smart, humble guy. If he had more "ego" he would probably have done more work promoting his cues - but he has always just made them, and let them promote themselves.

Tim Scruggs and Mike Cochran were super nice the time I went to their shop and bought a cue about 6 years ago (wow, was it that long?).

Steve Klein is kind of arrogant, and uppity but makes a super nice cue.........just kidding - just wondering if Steve will read this! :) Steve is as nice as they come, for a Navy puke.

When I went to Nashville late last year I talked to Alex Brick for quite a while, hung out in his shop, and tested out one of his cues. Jam up cues, and super nice guy. Seemed very down to earth, humble, and extremely knowledgeable.

I've emailed with Chris Byrne on here about a cue, that hopefully he can do for me some day, and he's an extremely nice gentleman - and very motivated.

I think for the most part, there are more "good" than "bad".......but the bad experiences make for the most interesting stories. :)

[Matt_24]

I GET WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, BUT THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THE WAY I WAS TREATED.

I HAVE A RETAIL STORE, AND DEAL WITH BROKE TEENAGE KIDS ON AN EVERYDAY BASIS. I HAVE NEVER INSULTED SOMEONE THE WAY HE INSULTED ME. EVEN IF IT WAS THE KID THAT CAME IN, AFTER THE KID THAT RUINED MY DAY. IT'S NOT GOOD BUSINESS, AND THERE IS NO EXCUSE.

ONCE BITTEN, TWICE SHY.... IS A SONG, NOT A WAY TO CONDUCT BUSINESS. EVEN MORE SO, NOT RETAIL BUSINESS.

Bingo - because if you treat them well, and those kids get some cash, you know where they will spend it. At the items they've been allowed to look at and lust after for so long during their "lean" times. It is only good business, and most of all RIGHT.

[cutter]

I guess I've never experienced an arrogant cuemaker.

I've emailed with Dennis Searing a few times a year for years (just checking in) and he is always super friendly and nice.

I met Rick Howard when I was a young, broke, Airman living in Ft. Walton Beach FL. He practically gave me a cue, used to practice with me for hours, and had me out to his shop - just to hang out. Super smart, humble guy. If he had more "ego" he would probably have done more work promoting his cues - but he has always just made them, and let them promote themselves.

Tim Scruggs and Mike Cochran were super nice the time I went to their shop and bought a cue about 6 years ago (wow, was it that long?).

Steve Klein is kind of arrogant, and uppity but makes a super nice cue.........just kidding - just wondering if Steve will read this! :) Steve is as nice as they come, for a Navy puke.

When I went to Nashville late last year I talked to Alex Brick for quite a while, hung out in his shop, and tested out one of his cues. Jam up cues, and super nice guy. Seemed very down to earth, humble, and extremely knowledgeable.

I've emailed with Chris Byrne on here about a cue, that hopefully he can do for me some day, and he's an extremely nice gentleman - and very motivated.

I think for the most part, there are more "good" than "bad".......but the bad experiences make for the most interesting stories. :)

Yeah Matt, I'm reading the post. That will slide your next cue back a few months.;) Hey atleast I'm mentioned with some really good cuemakers.
As Jimmy Buffet would say. I'm the son of a son of a sailor!

[snowmon34]

I have approached cue making like this:

Anybody can make a cue.
Anybody can make a cue play a certain way.
You are not only buying my cue, but you are buying me as well.
I need to play as well as my cues.


well said ....rep for you Sir!!!

[Hunter]

I've had some interesting deals with various cuemakers throughout the years! Some of the makers I've dealt with have been nothing but good, and some have been stone cold a**holes, and some have been nice one time and bad the next. I guess they are all human!

I have had the pleasure of dealing with cuemakers that people thought were great that turned out bad and vice versa.

In general, I agree totally with Marcus on Mike Sigel. I had one of his ebony and ivory cues, which was actually fairly nice. I asked him to send me some info on the cue four different times and everytime I asked him, he acted like we'd never spoken (sure made me feel important). He asked me to send pictures and I wasted my time with him until I finally just decided to dump the cue. His wife, Renee, was a pleasure to talk to.

I had trouble with Tad Kohara one time, too (I know, Tad's the nicest guy on the planet). I had asked him to make a shaft for an early Tad cue. Everything was going well until he saw that someone had engraved Sam Yorty's name on the cue. Sam was an ex-mayor of LA and a pool player. I'm sure that someone had bought the cue for him and had his name engraved on the buttcap. Tad basically told me it was no longer "his work" because it had been altered. I tried to explain that there was no alteration, just someone making the cue personal (like signing a family Bible...it doesn't mean the signer is trying to alter it or claim credit for it!). Tad hung up on me! I called back and he hung up on me again! I really didn't even know what the deal was. I talked to his son Fred later and he made it sound like I'd slapped his dad or something. I explained what had transpired and Fred was a good guy and very understanding. All I wanted was a new shaft for a great cue. Now I don't ever see owning another Tad cue, which is a shame...

The first time I ever talked to Kerry Zeiler, I thought he might be the most arrogant cuemaker I'd ever dealt with. Once I realized how he is, I've really enjoyed talking to him. He calls a spade a spade, which is kind of refreshing in this PC day and age.

I think the funniest story of arrogance in cuemaking was told to me by one of the biggest collectors in the States. This guy buys more cues than God, and he said that he stopped by Russ Espiritu's booth at a trade show one day and got the bum's rush by one of Russ' relatives that was manning the booth. He cost Russ a bunch, to say the least!

I've dealt with some great guys in the business. It's a shame that some folks don't understand that a little personality goes a long way in this game, or how the lack of it can turn you off to a potential buyer (and everyone he or she talks to...). Bad business for everyone involved!

Steve

[eeng168]

I was at the Super Billiards Expo a few years back & I was also looking at siegels cues. When a man ask Mike if he would sign an autograph for his son(which was standing there beside his father) Mike looked down at the 7 or 8 year old boy and said I`ll sell you an autographed cue ball for $20. The father looked at his son and said forget it he`s not worth $20. I started to laugh and walked away thinking the same thing. I`ve never went back to his stand since that day.


When I attended my first Expo back in 2002 ( I think ) i was collecting autographs whoever I came across with one being Siegel. He didn't use the $20 for an autographed ball but he did say with a sigh "Ok, I'll sign for you even though I don't normally do this"

Gesh...like he's doing me some huge favor. I have not gone back to his table since then....

[cuesblues]

I picked up a rare and expensive cue from a guy that bought it from an arrogant seller in Las Vegas a few years ago. He bought it just to show the guy that he could afford it, showing off for his buddies. He didn't want or need the cue. It started out like "you can't afford this cue" and after some banter, he whipped out 10K and bought it.

[Cuephoric]

I picked up a rare and expensive cue from a guy that bought it from an arrogant seller in Las Vegas a few years ago. He bought it just to show the guy that he could afford it, showing off for his buddies. He didn't want or need the cue. It started out like "you can't afford this cue" and after some banter, he whipped out 10K and bought it.


Hey! I know this one!
Should I direct people to the pics...?lol

That is still one great looking cue, no matter how you look at it!
Shane

[Matt_24]

I picked up a rare and expensive cue from a guy that bought it from an arrogant seller in Las Vegas a few years ago. He bought it just to show the guy that he could afford it, showing off for his buddies. He didn't want or need the cue. It started out like "you can't afford this cue" and after some banter, he whipped out 10K and bought it.

Looks like the seller used some reverse psychology to sell a 10 thousand dollar cue. That is the nuts! (If he was really doing that LOL).

[Matt_24]

Yeah Matt, I'm reading the post. That will slide your next cue back a few months.;) Hey atleast I'm mentioned with some really good cuemakers.
As Jimmy Buffet would say. I'm the son of a son of a sailor!

You are a "really good cuemaker".

But you're still a no-good adrenalin junky, rocket riding, Navy puke.

Lately, your only adrenalin rush is if you have a lathe mishap.

Matt <-- Loves insulting retired Navy officers. Hope this doesn't slow my cue down even more. ;)

[cuesblues]

Looks like the seller used some reverse psychology to sell a 10 thousand dollar cue. That is the nuts! (If he was really doing that LOL).

I didn't think of that untill this thread. I'm sure that's part of the deal, especially in Las Vegas. Lots of money, ego's, like you said, not a bad way to move a 10K cue.

[cornerstone]

I had a little and somewhat scruffy man come to my booth 2 years ago , very shy and soft spokin! asked me a couple questions and thanked me for answering them.picked a cue on the table over 8000.00 and then asked if he can put 1200 on a card cause he didnt have that much cash! he told me he had been trying to buy a cue most of the morning and no one even aknowledged him. never judge people by apperance they will fool you most of the time. the other was a well dressed younger man that took up over 4 hrs over 3 days and let me know he was a big collector and the only cue he bought was a adams (new) 160.00 from another dealer , lol .I also heard another story where a cue maker told a very welthy collector on the site here, not to touch that cue you prolly couldnt afford it!:D

[CocoboloCowboy]

he told me he had been trying to buy a cue most of the morning and no one even aknowledged him. never judge people by apperance they will fool you most of the time. the other was a well dressed younger man that took up over 4 hrs over 3 days and let me know he was a big collector and the only cue he bought was a adams (new) 160.00 from another dealer , lol .I also heard another story where a cue maker told a very welthy collector on the site here, not to touch that cue you prolly couldnt afford it!:D

Sound like the story of Howard Hughes, and the Cadillac Salesman who blew off. Hughes both the Dealership, and first thing her did was fire the guy who blew him off.

[TNcountryboy]

To Royl
This is Donald Bludworth
I recently was told about your coments about me Knocking Bill Shick.
I would never say any bad things about Bill Or his cues .
Bill is and has been a friend of mine for a long time.
Its strange to me that you would say something like that.
I dont say bad things about any cuemakers.
Most of them are personal friends.
If you have any more to say about me, be a man and call me.
sinserely
Donald Bludworth
(830)-275-3419

[RoyL]

I thought about it long and hard before I posted that story, not wanting to get into a flame war, but I'll stick to my story. Like I said this was many years ago when you still had your shop in Quitman.

Maybe you were just joking when you said that, but it still made me feel as you were devaluing my cue in front of other players.

If you read more of my intitial post I said you were an alright guy, except for that one comment.

[daniel]

My vote is Dennis Dieckman. I had one of his cues which had a pronounced rattle under the handle. I called him & his reply was "Thats how my cues sound" Yuk Yuk. Nuff said.

[pathman]

THAT'S BECAUSE PAUL MOTTEY AND JAMES WHITE ARE TWO OF THE NICEST CLASSIEST GUYS IN THE BUSINESS. YOU CAN'T GO WRONG DEALING WITH THEM

I'VE NEVER DEALT WITH LAMBROS, BUT HAVE HEARD ENOUGH OTHER BAD STORIES THAT I NEVER PLANNED TO EITHER.

I guess this is why these posts are so tricky. I've bought a cue from literally every great and many not so great living cue-builders at one time or another and I have to say, my experience with Mike Lambros is right at the top of my list of the best. I really can't say that I've dealt with an arrogant cue-builder, some of them tell me things I don't always want to hear, but that's how it goes. I've always found getting things from Ernie or the Tad shop to be a little difficult, but I would by no means call them arrogant. Maybe it's hard for the Southern boys to communicate well with the left coasters. And by the way, my Lambros is the best one-pocket cue I've ever owned, it is almost telepathic.

[bigpocket]

I know I cannot please everybody all the time but I sure try. If I have offended you please forgive me.

Arnot


LOL Arnot it's ok every one no's a good tip job only cost 10 to 12 buck.:D

[leehayes]

This is one fast growing thread!!!
I haven't dealt with many cue makers other than a few PM's here with one exception. I sent Bryan Mordt and email regarding a cue that I have and since my phone number was on the email instead of emailing me back he actually called me. We talked awhile about his cues and possibly making one. Not only did I find him incredibly helpful but was a pure gentleman. My main playing cue is a BCM and I love the hit. Not sure about bad ones but Bryan Mordt is definitely a good one.