Gambling Christian??

[Drake]

I see in every interview that you have done that you feel that all of your sucess in due to your better half (the wife) and your christian beliefs. Do you gamble on pool games?? Does it conflict with your christian beliefs?? I've struggled with this issue for many years because I do gamble but feel that I'm not addicted to it and only wager what I can afford to lose. Just curious about your thoughts.

[RON GEARY]

Good Question. I Always Wanted To Hear Other Peoples Thoughts About This Subject. You Know, Like Is Every Person In Vegas That Drops A Buck In A Slot Going To Hell,so To Speak.actually In All Reality, It Probably Doesnt Make Any Difference What The Amt. Is , It Is Probably A Sin No Matter What.

[JimS]

If what you are doing is harmful to you or anyone else then stop doing it. Otherwise have fun and forget about what others opinions might be. Opinions like deciding for others what is a "sin" and what isn't a "sin" are only opinions.

[Drake]

If you choose not to answer this question in the open forum, I would understand. This topic is very controversial and has to many wrong answers. For example, Many Christian Pool Players will Play in a 80 dollar Tournament but will never bet any money one on one........What's the difference?? But, I do know of at least 5 Professional "Gambling Christians" that play long sessions and usually do very well. Feel free to PM me if want to answer at all.

[Blackjack]

Drake
As I said to you privately, this sounds more like a debating question rather than an inquiry into a Christian point of view. In response to JimS, sin is not based on opinion from anybody. We are all born with a sin nature. Sin begins in the heart. From the standpoint of a Christian, I always try to see what Jesus Christ would do in any situation. I fail to see him walking into a pool hall with a cue case hanging on his shoulder scouting out gambling prospects to line his pockets with easy cash - whether or not the odds were in his favor or not. So that being said, you go back to the popular question:
What Would Jesus Do? I don't think he'd be gambling. I hope that answers your question. I am somebody that has been on both sides of the coin, so I have a perspective of both sides of thsi issue. Prior to accepting Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior I justified my behavior - sometimes brutally. It still didn't make what I was doing right in the eyes God. Being a Christian is not about holding yourself on a pedestal and looking down upon others. It's about walking with Jesus Christ.

Even Christians are tempted to sin. Nobody is perfect, nobody is any better than anybody else, and nobody is immune from temptation. There are several patterns of attack the devil uses to sway us off course, and I would say being tempted into gambling by the lure of dollar sign$$ would be a pattern of attack. I fell for that one over and over. When I gambled I was motivated by greed. I wanted to take and take and take. "What's in it for me?" Today I try to go to the opposite extreme and I try to give and give and give, and my question is, "What can I do for others?" Big difference. The Blackjack of 1985 would have flipped off the Blackjack of 2005. So if you don't agree with what I've said here, I've been there too.

[hillbilly]

I see in every interview that you have done that you feel that all of your sucess in due to your better half (the wife) and your christian beliefs. Do you gamble on pool games?? Does it conflict with your christian beliefs?? I've struggled with this issue for many years because I do gamble but feel that I'm not addicted to it and only wager what I can afford to lose. Just curious about your thoughts.


I don't gamble a whole lot myself. When I do, I pretty much follow the guide lines you follow. I don't feel that most anything (within reason) SHOULD affect my christian beliefs as long as they're not done excessively. Also, as far as gambeling is concerned, I feel that true gambling is dumb luck. When you gamble on the pool table, you're relying on SKILL. However, as you said, addiction will affect anyone's christian beliefs. Whose to say? These are just MY thoughts. And who am I to judge? :)

[hillbilly]

Good Question. I Always Wanted To Hear Other Peoples Thoughts About This Subject. You Know, Like Is Every Person In Vegas That Drops A Buck In A Slot Going To Hell,so To Speak.actually In All Reality, It Probably Doesnt Make Any Difference What The Amt. Is , It Is Probably A Sin No Matter What.


We could probally all argue about this subject forever, but why? As long as you live in belief of the Lord, and help others as he asks, I'm not sure that it's such a terrible thing to drop a buck or two into a few machines. As I said to Drake, compulsive obsessiveness, is a whole other subject, in MY OPINION. Also, why is it so BAD to have a little fun with your HARD EARNED MONEY?

[hillbilly]

If you choose not to answer this question in the open forum, I would understand. This topic is very controversial and has to many wrong answers. For example, Many Christian Pool Players will Play in a 80 dollar Tournament but will never bet any money one on one........What's the difference?? But, I do know of at least 5 Professional "Gambling Christians" that play long sessions and usually do very well. Feel free to PM me if want to answer at all.


Again, if I'm comfortable with the situation, and don't feel that I'm hurting anyone, mentally or physically, then I think a little action is ok. You're right, there are too many wrong answers, and I don't mean to offend anyone, by any means. I hope that everyone sees that my belief's are strong enough for me to be comfortable with myself.

[hillbilly]

Drake
As I said to you privately, this sounds more like a debating question rather than an inquiry into a Christian point of view. In response to JimS, sin is not based on opinion from anybody. We are all born with a sin nature. Sin begins in the heart. From the standpoint of a Christian, I always try to see what Jesus Christ would do in any situation. I fail to see him walking into a pool hall with a cue case hanging on his shoulder scouting out gambling prospects to line his pockets with easy cash - whether or not the odds were in his favor or not. So that being said, you go back to the popular question:
What Would Jesus Do? I don't think he'd be gambling. I hope that answers your question. I am somebody that has been on both sides of the coin, so I have a perspective of both sides of thsi issue. Prior to accepting Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior I justified my behavior - sometimes brutally. It still didn't make what I was doing right in the eyes God. Being a Christian is not about holding yourself on a pedestal and looking down upon others. It's about walking with Jesus Christ.

Even Christians are tempted to sin. Nobody is perfect, nobody is any better than anybody else, and nobody is immune from temptation. There are several patterns of attack the devil uses to sway us off course, and I would say being tempted into gambling by the lure of dollar sign$$ would be a pattern of attack. I fell for that one over and over. When I gambled I was motivated by greed. I wanted to take and take and take. "What's in it for me?" Today I try to go to the opposite extreme and I try to give and give and give, and my question is, "What can I do for others?" Big difference. The Blackjack of 1985 would have flipped off the Blackjack of 2005. So if you don't agree with what I've said here, I've been there too.


I"m not really sure how to respond to you, because you really didn't ask a question, however, I do not disagree with you. However, I don't look at gambling on the pool table like you did. I don't have the "what's in it for me" attitude and I"m not obsessed with the addiction. I can't say I've even gambled more than a half a dozen times in the last four years. When I matched up, we were in agreement to play, and the games were VERY even match-ups. Also, whether or not it makes me a sinner, I am never out in search of action. Most players, want such a absurd "spot" that it's crazy. They make ME feel like I don't like to make others feel, so I simply don't gamble. Wheew!!! I don't know guys. I'm just a natural born sinner like everyone else. Again, this is just MY opinion. :D

[hillbilly]

If what you are doing is harmful to you or anyone else then stop doing it. Otherwise have fun and forget about what others opinions might be. Opinions like deciding for others what is a "sin" and what isn't a "sin" are only opinions.


Please see my oter replys in answer to your post. :)

[stick8]

hello people: well and old man view, i have gambled, my opinion on the subject is if you compet in sporting avent, money as a prize you are not gambling you are competing with others to determin the best. but head to head you are gambling. just a old man view , look at all the golfers. tennis, etc, people that but up money to compet????? STICK :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[fxskater]

I don't gamble a whole lot myself. When I do, I pretty much follow the guide lines you follow. I don't feel that most anything (within reason) SHOULD affect my christian beliefs as long as they're not done excessively. Also, as far as gambeling is concerned, I feel that true gambling is dumb luck. When you gamble on the pool table, you're relying on SKILL. However, as you said, addiction will affect anyone's christian beliefs. Whose to say? These are just MY thoughts. And who am I to judge? :)

That is basicly the exact same opinion as mine. When matching up i don't go out of my way to make it even though. I will take the gamble if i am on the bad side or the good side of a 'bad bet' if offered to me. I justify all gambling at the table by playing my hardest at all times. I am against any type of hustling, but i feel a wager on a game of skill is is not really gambling at all. Betting on things that you cannot affect the outcome of, is true gambling, and I'll do that once in a while too. As long as I am not hurting myself or anyone i honestly don't feel that i am offending god. I think the principle of gambling being a sin, depends on both you and your opponents state of mind.

[Tarantula]

Keep on trucking, Billy. Congratulations on your hard earned wins! :-D

[cuedoctor]

I don't gamble a whole lot myself. When I do, I pretty much follow the guide lines you follow. I don't feel that most anything (within reason) SHOULD affect my christian beliefs as long as they're not done excessively. Also, as far as gambeling is concerned, I feel that true gambling is dumb luck. When you gamble on the pool table, you're relying on SKILL. However, as you said, addiction will affect anyone's christian beliefs. Whose to say? These are just MY thoughts. And who am I to judge? :)


Charles,how did u do against painter saturday night in that 10 ahead for 5g!!
I watched it go even for 3 hours til 3am .He's one tough player that guy painter,what did u think of all that jaw action1

[doctorhvac]

Charlie played like the true champion that he is. As soon as he got his break straighted out it was all over but the crying. Charlie was one ahead and hit Painter with 9 strait games. You should have hung around and watched the shot Charlie rifled in on the one ball in the last game. If I would have been playing him and he knocked that shot off like that I would have called it good. He hit it like king kong. Chalie, Thanks for the show and playing in that atmosphere like a true champion. I also did pretty good on the side betting on this one. :D

[Shawn Putnam]

I see in every interview that you have done that you feel that all of your sucess in due to your better half (the wife) and your christian beliefs. Do you gamble on pool games?? Does it conflict with your christian beliefs?? I've struggled with this issue for many years because I do gamble but feel that I'm not addicted to it and only wager what I can afford to lose. Just curious about your thoughts.
Hi Todd. Gambling isn't a sin but the addiction is. Like our buddy BILLY !!! Call Me.

[Sweet Marissa]

Gambling (to my knowledge) isn't even mentioned in the bible. I don't see anything wrong with it, unless it becomes an addiction. We are all sinners anyway, and shouldn't pass judgement on others or base our lives on what other people do.

And Shawn... The love sponge??? I don't think I want to know!

[Coop1701]

I hate to say this..., Because I usually try to avoid religious debates. There is a lot wrote in the Bible about Gambling.

I guess it just depends on how much of it is open for your own interpretation. there's lots of stuff wrote in there, that people just ignore in this day and time anyway.

[Sweet Marissa]

I hate to say this..., Because I usually try to avoid religious debates. There is a lot wrote in the Bible about Gambling.

I guess it just depends on how much of it is open for your own interpretation. there's lots of stuff wrote in there, that people just ignore in this day and time anyway.

I was taught that gambling wasn't mentioned in the bible. Do you know what book(s) in which it is mentioned?

[Coop1701]

I'm about as Agnostic as they come... But I researched several subjects like this a long time ago. More or less, because I have this fascination with knowing trival things.

here's you a couple...

Matt. 16:26
2 Cor 12:14
Prov 15:27


I do not believe gambling is wrong, and it's all in what people precieve from what they read.

[raemondo]

I checked my bible for the words "gamble", "gambling", and "wager", and I didn't see anything. I also looked at the verses that Coop1701 put up.

Personally, I believe that the reason why Christians are discouraged from gambling is because gambling is viewed as a type of temptation, and since some people are mentally weak, you could get sucked into a situation where money becomes the sole focus of your game, or even your life, which is what Christianity preaches not to do. The bible does say that you cannot serve both God and money. Hence, I am also of the idea that gambling might not be a sin, but once you step beyond a boundary where you become addicted to it, it will be.

I am a christian, and I seldom gamble at pool for many reasons -- I'm a bad shot, I'm a student, and more often that not hustling / gambling / playing for money is a predatory activity. You'd almost never hustle a guy who's much better than you unless you think you can get a spot and win, or beat a guy even after giving him a spot. I guess this might be different on the pro level, where the skill level is somewhat homogeneous.

Sadly though, I think I will never really improve in my game all that much because it always seems like the better players always wanna play money, and I'm not that rich to throw in the dough just to get better.

[Shawn Putnam]

Gambling (to my knowledge) isn't even mentioned in the bible. I don't see anything wrong with it, unless it becomes an addiction. We are all sinners anyway, and shouldn't pass judgement on others or base our lives on what other people do.

And Shawn... The love sponge??? I don't think I want to know!
OHHHHHH YESSSS YOU DOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[poolplayer1988]

....being a good steward of the blessings God has blessed you with as a Christian. You won't find the words gamble, gambling, or wager in the Bible, but you will find many references to being a good steward of God's blessings. Alot of people refer to "casting lots" in the Bible, and since the Apostles "cast lots" in determining who would replace Judas in the first chapter of Acts, they say "oh, if the Apostles gambled, then it's okay", but that's not true. There were two types of "casting lots" in the Bible, one was God-influenced, and the other was simply men gambling. The occurrence of the Roman soldiers "casting lots" for Jesus' clothing was definitely NOT God-influenced, but the Apostles "casting lots" to determine who was going to replace Judas was. See the difference? Gambling to try and take away what a person has is called covetousness, no matter how you slice it. Playing in a tournament where you pay to compete for a position is not considered gambling UNLESS a person has it in their heart that they're going to try and be greedy and do anything they can to win, up to and including cheating. There are alot of Christians who play in tournaments for the enjoyment of it alone, and that is okay. Remember, the Bible says "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil", not the money itself. Just my Biblical $.02....

Preacher

[Sweet Marissa]

With that mentality, anything can be construed as sin. People are imperfect and will always feel desire. Two consenting individuals playing for money is no worse than 64 competing for a trophy or purse.

[Walter N.]

I remember when you came through denver looking for action a race to 7 ahead for 1000 sound familiar? :cool:

[onepocketchump]

The one thing I haven't seen yet is the difference between hustling, gambling, and competing.

Hustling is something Jesus wouldn't do. Gambling is also something Jesus wouldn't do. Jesus would also not compete.

Hustling is thievery. It is concealing knowledge in order to deceive. Thievery is wrong.

Gambling is trying to to take a shortcut to wealth. It is an illusory dream. It does nothing productive.

Sporting competition is purely for the ego. Anything done for self-gratification only is probably a sin.

-----------------------

Now. Hustling is still thievery. Gambling is a sport. Competition is entertainment. God looks on us all and laughs at our foibles. I believe that the only thing he cares about is whether you are sincere or not. If a pool player chooses to compete for money and can do it sincerely without deception then that probably doesn't count as a sin.

Now Eve ate the apple which made us all aware of our vulnerabilities. Cain and Abel are examples of the sins of coveting and jealousy. So I guess it comes down to motivation. Is the pool player predatory or seeking to improve themselves? Seeking tough games in order to better oneself is not gambling or hustling. Seeking easy targets is husting and predatory.

So my take on this would be that competing for money is not a sin as long as both parties know the relative strength of the other and attempt to match up fairly. Hustling is a sin. Gambling is not a sin unless it harms someone else. Probably though, the Bible might say that being non-productive is in and of itself a sin. Who knows? I don't.

John

[onepocketchump]

I remember when you came through denver looking for action a race to 7 ahead for 1000 sound familiar? :cool:

You can't have a race to 7 ahead, the players are going in opposite directions. :-)

I think the proper terminology would be a 7 ahead set or session.

John

[poolplayer1988]

Well that's an interesting thought. So you can't judge between what's right and what's wrong? That "mentality" is directly from God's word, so if it's not up to your standards, then you might wanna take it up with Him. As far as gambling being the same as tournament play, I'd love for you to try to attempt to explain that one to me. It'll be fun watching you struggle with a reason.



With that mentality, anything can be construed as sin. People are imperfect and will always feel desire. Two consenting individuals playing for money is no worse than 64 competing for a trophy or purse.

[jungledude]

:p I have to laugh when anyone can really think that with all the horrible things going on in the world that God cares if me and one of my equally matched buddies wager $100 on a nine ball race. Theirs child molesters out
preying on children, murders, rapists, armed robbers, white collar criminals and you really think a wager on a pool game might send you to hell. If that's the case, I know where I'll be spending eternity, but hopefully God and St. Peter will be too busy with the thugs described above. ;)

[Sweet Marissa]

Well that's an interesting thought. So you can't judge between what's right and what's wrong? That "mentality" is directly from God's word, so if it's not up to your standards, then you might wanna take it up with Him. As far as gambling being the same as tournament play, I'd love for you to try to attempt to explain that one to me. It'll be fun watching you struggle with a reason.

In both cases, there is something of value at the end outcome that both or all parties covet.

We were given free will to make our own choices, decisions, and opinions. The bible was not written by God, it's a product of man, and either way has been translated and reworded over thousands of years. The word of God has been twisted into something of prejudice and chauvinism.

[Walter N.]

You can't have a race to 7 ahead, the players are going in opposite directions. :-)

I think the proper terminology would be a 7 ahead set or session.

John
Get off my back with your correct terminology *****! :D

[Snapshot9]

I won't debate it since I think it is a personal matter,
BUT it does say in the Bible that all sins are EQUAL
in the eyes of the Lord, and gossiping is a sin.

[Sweet Marissa]

This isn't gossip, though; it's an intellectual debate.

All sins are equal, however, none of us is without sin.

[poolplayer1988]

You kidding yourself, my friend. Jesus says that all sin is equal, and that if a man commits one sin, then he is guilty of all sin. In God's eyes, no sin is any better or worse than another sin. Sin is sin, and those who reject Jesus, whether it be a murderer or money-coveter, will be sent to hell, point blank.

I find it kinda odd that you so nonchalantly say things about hell like it's no big deal. What do you think hell will be like when you get there?

:p I have to laugh when anyone can really think that with all the horrible things going on in the world that God cares if me and one of my equally matched buddies wager $100 on a nine ball race. Theirs child molesters out
preying on children, murders, rapists, armed robbers, white collar criminals and you really think a wager on a pool game might send you to hell. If that's the case, I know where I'll be spending eternity, but hopefully God and St. Peter will be too busy with the thugs described above. ;)

[poolplayer1988]

In both cases, there is something of value at the end outcome that both or all parties covet.

You're right about that, but it all depends in where your heart lies. Some players, like me, enjoy the competition and don't care about the money. I have a job where I earn an honest buck, so I'm not out there to swindle people out of their money.

We were given free will to make our own choices, decisions, and opinions.

Amen to that!

The bible was not written by God, it's a product of man, and either way has been translated and reworded over thousands of years.

Since you're making a claim like that, do you mind showing us the proof that it is not God's direct revelation to the inspired writers of God? If not, maybe you could reword your statement to say that in your opinion it is a product of man. If so, I can prove that it is indeed the direct revelation of God to His inspired writers.

The word of God has been twisted into something of prejudice and chauvinism.

Again, I ask for you to show us some proof of how you came to this conclusion. I'm not sure what you're referring to?

[JoeyA]

Marissa, while I do a little bit of gambling on the field of green, you don't have to look much further than the 10 Commandments to see that gambling is against the teachings of the bible.

One commandment reads:
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant nor his maidservant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is thy neighbors."

Also the other commandment, “Thou shalt not steal”.

Both of these cover gambling IMHO. When you gamble you want what another person has. Also when you know you are going to win a match, isn't that stealing?

Warm Regards,
JoeyA (still a sinner)

[QUOTE=Sweet Marissa]Gambling (to my knowledge) isn't even mentioned in the bible. I don't see anything wrong with it, unless it becomes an addiction. We are all sinners anyway, and shouldn't pass judgement on others or base our lives on what other people do.

[cuenut]

Personally I like BlackJack's answer above. BlackJack, I'd like to meet you some day.

Hello Hillbilly, I haven't spoken with you lately. This is Scott from Lafayette. I pray that all is well with you, Amanda, and your Mom.

I have struggled with the gambling question as well. The same question can be said of drinking. Having a glass of wine in and of itself is not a sin, unless you allow your judgement to be impaired by it. My Pastor has presented an interesting question. If he were to take his wife to dinner at a nice restaurant and order a glass of wine with his meal, undoubtably someone he knows would point him out as a hypocrit without even speaking to him, and from that point forward he would lose the ability to minister to that person to win them to Christ. He choses not to allow that to happen and therefore does not drink at all. Neither do I. The same can be said of gambling, or even being in a pool hall. Your intentions may be grand, but you would be guilty by association.

I like to think that my demeanor while in a pool hall will provide witness to others around me. Everyone in the pool hall that I frequent knows that I do not gamble, drink, or curse. I have had the opportunity to witness to others while there. One of the bartenders even came to church with me and my family, and he hadn't been in a church for months. Just my thoughts.
Scott

[butterflycues]

It sounds to me like we are making a reason that it is ok. Fact of it is, if your under conviction about gambling. Then you shouldn't do it. Butterflycues

[Run the Century]

If Jesus where around today he would have been playing pool most likely. In his day he hung out with Prostitutes and Tax Collectors (you go where the sinful are). I play pool and am a Christian.

I dont see anything wrong with playing pool either in tournaments or playing for money. I have heard the argument about being viewed as a hypocrit or causing another to stumble if I order a beer - come on! If I am eating dessert after dinner and a fat person in the booth next to me stumbles by seeing this am I guilty? You cant take responsibility for other people's sins.

Many churches raise money with Bingo. Is this a sin?

The sin in all this is when it is not done in moderation (like drinking).

BTW - Hey Marissa!

[cuenut]

Jesus might play pool but I doubt he would gamble. The reason he chose to associate with prostitutes and tax collectors was not to use them for his personal gain, as is the case with gambling. I did it to win their souls. I don't think any of us shoot pool for that reason.

Discipling others so that they can go and disciple others is the reason. What better witness can there be than a persons who has led a morally corrupt, sinful life who comes to Christ and turns their life around. It's hard to argue with life experience.

One interesting quote to consider in our daily lives which if find interesting:
"You're living so loud, I can't hear what you are saying?"

[Run the Century]

I believe Jesus would have given anybody the 6 out for their soul. :-)

[cuenut]

I believe Jesus would have given anybody the 6 out for their soul. :-)

To: Run the Century

:-)

Take care.

[cornerstone]

In both cases, there is something of value at the end outcome that both or all parties covet.

We were given free will to make our own choices, decisions, and opinions. The bible was not written by God, it's a product of man, and either way has been translated and reworded over thousands of years. The word of God has been twisted into something of prejudice and chauvinism.Hello , I wish to share some info that people are un aware of.The word of God (bible) is penned by man and inspired/guided by God.the old testament written in aribac/ the new tesetament in greek and hebrew!old thestament aprox3700 years old -new 1900-2000 years old.all three still used lang. today( not a dead unused toung) and if you go back to the early scrolls and have them transulated today. you would come up with what we call the bible! until 1952 your arugument was the (big one ) and then the critics found the dead sea scrolls dating back to the 1st century .and after 34 critics 18 of them athiest 7 musilum-5 jews-4 christian scientest translated it and came back to be word for word accurate! the word of God is not predjudice it call all who are open to hear the message of a loving father who is willing to sacrafice it all for just you!it is not a book of restrictions but of freedom!freedom from the things that bind us and keep us from God.it lets us know that not one of us is good enough to get to heaven ,we ALL fall short! but the GIFT is a sacrafice to pay for all of our short commings,and that is JESUS CHRIST! for any one ( no race restrictions there) that accepts him!

[cornerstone]

Hello , I wish to share some info that people are un aware of.The word of God (bible) is penned by man and inspired/guided by God.the old testament written in aribac/ the new tesetament in greek and hebrew!old thestament aprox3700 years old -new 1900-2000 years old.all three still used lang. today( not a dead unused toung) and if you go back to the early scrolls and have them transulated today. you would come up with what we call the bible! until 1952 your arugument was the (big one ) and then the critics found the dead sea scrolls dating back to the 1st century .and after 34 critics 18 of them athiest 7 musilum-5 jews-4 christian scientest translated it and came back to be word for word accurate! the word of God is not predjudice it call all who are open to hear the message of a loving father who is willing to sacrafice it all for just you!it is not a book of restrictions but of freedom!freedom from the things that bind us and keep us from God.it lets us know that not one of us is good enough to get to heaven ,we ALL fall short! but the GIFT is a sacrafice to pay for all of our short commings,and that is JESUS CHRIST! for any one ( no race restrictions there) that accepts him!the bible is the most attacked book of all time and it has held up to the most powerful critics!if we look intently into it we find god telling us to look to him for guidence like. until 1492 we believed the earth was flat and the word told us, God suspends the circumfrance (circle)of the earth into space! also there is 1734 scriptures for telling of the future in the old testament and 512 in the new testament=2256 of those 1952 have come ture to date most of them telling of christ birth, life, birthplace, death and resurection(some are psalm22-isiah53) very detailed and accurate!and written aprox1500 years prior.and the other 304 are of end times that are yet to come (the book of revelation)! even the most renownd profet nosterdamos had a accuracy of less than2% of his 3100 fortelling scripts!and the koran Musilum Book only has 1 profisecy and that is that mohamed will come back to the holy land,and has not been fulfilled!I could write pages about how accurate the WORD OF GOD IS! I have searched many diff religons looking for the true way and I always came back to the creator of the universe!Iam glad he took me back!

[Lupo]

Drake
As I said to you privately, this sounds more like a debating question rather than an inquiry into a Christian point of view. In response to JimS, sin is not based on opinion from anybody. We are all born with a sin nature. Sin begins in the heart. From the standpoint of a Christian, I always try to see what Jesus Christ would do in any situation. I fail to see him walking into a pool hall with a cue case hanging on his shoulder scouting out gambling prospects to line his pockets with easy cash - whether or not the odds were in his favor or not. So that being said, you go back to the popular question:
What Would Jesus Do? I don't think he'd be gambling. I hope that answers your question. I am somebody that has been on both sides of the coin, so I have a perspective of both sides of thsi issue. Prior to accepting Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior I justified my behavior - sometimes brutally. It still didn't make what I was doing right in the eyes God. Being a Christian is not about holding yourself on a pedestal and looking down upon others. It's about walking with Jesus Christ.

Even Christians are tempted to sin. Nobody is perfect, nobody is any better than anybody else, and nobody is immune from temptation. There are several patterns of attack the devil uses to sway us off course, and I would say being tempted into gambling by the lure of dollar sign$$ would be a pattern of attack. I fell for that one over and over. When I gambled I was motivated by greed. I wanted to take and take and take. "What's in it for me?" Today I try to go to the opposite extreme and I try to give and give and give, and my question is, "What can I do for others?" Big difference. The Blackjack of 1985 would have flipped off the Blackjack of 2005. So if you don't agree with what I've said here, I've been there too.

I can't go along with your "What would Jesus do" argument. I can't envision Jesus becoming a soldier and killing others in defense of his country either, but that doesn't mean Jesus is against soldiers or the right of a country to defend itself. In fact, there's a story in the New Testament where Jesus honors a soldier. I'll look it up if you don't know it. The fact is that Jesus had a specific mission in life which was neither playing pool nor defending his country. Hustling unsuspecting innocents is obviously a wrongful practice. On the other hand, hustling other hustlers who are out to take advantage of innocent victims does not seem such a bad thing. And finally, matching up on an honest basis, with two players going head to head for a wager seems to me to be an honorable and admirable endeavor. Of course, I believe it's always wrong to bet more than you can afford, or to bet money that others (like your family) are dependent on. But a good match for a sizable wager seems to me to be a great test of courage, discipline, skill, nerves, etc., etc. and maybe for some even a testament to their faith in God. I'd be interested in your reaction to this, which is my honest feelings and belief. Respectfully yours.

[Sweet Marissa]

Slavery is condoned in the bible. Does that make it right?

[Coop1701]

It is in the Marissa, good one.

It also says anyone who doesn't have 20/20 vision should not approach the altar of thy lord. :)

So all you near sighted people are in trouble. ha ha

[cornerstone]

Slavery is condoned in the bible. Does that make it right?slavery in biblical time was very differant than slavery of 100 years ago,in christ time becomeing a slave was done as a humble servant,free to come and go as they wish to a master who took care of them and their familys for lifeand treated there servants with the utmost respect! ;)

[poolplayer1988]

Not trying to be hateful or rude, but man you are WAAAAY off! The OT was written in Hebrew, with a very, very few verses written in Aramaic. The NT was written in what is called Koine Greek,which is now what's called a "dead language", as there is no one in the world that still uses that. I'm not 100% sure about your dates, but they sound almost right. As far as the translation stuff goes, I'm not sure on your numbers there either, but you're close.

Hello , I wish to share some info that people are un aware of.The word of God (bible) is penned by man and inspired/guided by God.the old testament written in aribac/ the new tesetament in greek and hebrew!old thestament aprox3700 years old -new 1900-2000 years old.all three still used lang. today( not a dead unused toung) and if you go back to the early scrolls and have them transulated today. you would come up with what we call the bible! until 1952 your arugument was the (big one ) and then the critics found the dead sea scrolls dating back to the 1st century .and after 34 critics 18 of them athiest 7 musilum-5 jews-4 christian scientest translated it and came back to be word for word accurate!

[poolplayer1988]

There goes our friend Marissa again, making claims against the Bible she can't back up. Please show us where the Bible condones slavery....

Slavery is condoned in the bible. Does that make it right?

[poolplayer1988]

Care to give us some BCV (book, chapter, verse) on that claim, so that we can see it for ourselves and make sure you're not taking that out of the Old Testament or out of context?

It also says anyone who doesn't have 20/20 vision should not approach the altar of thy lord. :)

So all you near sighted people are in trouble. ha ha

[poolplayer1988]

I can't go along with your "What would Jesus do" argument. I can't envision Jesus becoming a soldier and killing others in defense of his country either, but that doesn't mean Jesus is against soldiers or the right of a country to defend itself.

Not everyone is cut out to be a soldier, so Jesus probably wouldn't have been a soldier. However, the "what would Jesus do" argument is a valid way of looking at things. After all, Jesus did say, "If you love me, keep my commandments". Jesus didn't say, "do as I say, not as I do", He said to follow Him and His actions.

In fact, there's a story in the New Testament where Jesus honors a soldier. I'll look it up if you don't know it. The fact is that Jesus had a specific mission in life which was neither playing pool nor defending his country. Hustling unsuspecting innocents is obviously a wrongful practice.

Amen to that!

On the other hand, hustling other hustlers who are out to take advantage of innocent victims does not seem such a bad thing.

Proverbs 14:12 says: There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

And finally, matching up on an honest basis, with two players going head to head for a wager seems to me to be an honorable and admirable endeavor. Of course, I believe it's always wrong to bet more than you can afford, or to bet money that others (like your family) are dependent on. But a good match for a sizable wager seems to me to be a great test of courage, discipline, skill, nerves, etc., etc. and maybe for some even a testament to their faith in God. I'd be interested in your reaction to this, which is my honest feelings and belief. Respectfully yours.

The main problem with gambling is this: is using your money to take a chance at anything, pool, lottery, bingo, etc., ever a good way to be considered a "good steward" of God's blessings? Is there ever a circumstance where doing wrong is okay because it seems the right thing to do? Of course not.

[poolplayer1988]

If Jesus where around today he would have been playing pool most likely. In his day he hung out with Prostitutes and Tax Collectors (you go where the sinful are).

Go where the sinful are, yes; participate in their sin, absolutely not. Jesus didn't "collect any taxes" or any other of the things the sinners around him did. He taught them, pure and simple.

I dont see anything wrong with playing pool either in tournaments or playing for money. I have heard the argument about being viewed as a hypocrit or causing another to stumble if I order a beer - come on! If I am eating dessert after dinner and a fat person in the booth next to me stumbles by seeing this am I guilty? You cant take responsibility for other people's sins.

Paul did say that if by him eating meat, that he would cause his brother to sin, he would NOT eat meat "while the world standeth". Causing your brother or sister to stumble is a sin and is just as bad as any other sin.

Many churches raise money with Bingo. Is this a sin?

Yes, gambling is a sin, especially in a house of God.

The sin in all this is when it is not done in moderation (like drinking).

Sin is sin, whether you do it in moderation or not.

[Coop1701]

Here you go Poolplayer.... I'll defend me and Marissa.

Slavery in the good ole bible...

Leviticus 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us.


20/20 vision in the bible??? I think so,.. read carefully.

Leviticus 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight.

Here's another good one for ya, since the debate is open...

My Stepfather insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death.
Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or should we ask the police to do it?

Please know, that many people take the bible seriously. But in this day and age,.. Can you honestly call homosexuality a abomination, or for that matter going to the Red Lobster and eating shell fish? ...,am I really not suppose ever come into contact with a woman during her menstrual cycle. Most women I know get upset if you ask. Is there a good way to avoid that one.

Just some more food for thought....

[poolplayer1988]

Here you go Poolplayer.... I'll defend me and Marissa.

Slavery in the good ole bible...

Leviticus 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us.

There are two statements here to be made about the OT. First, the OT NEVER applied to anyone EXCEPT the Hebrew nation. That does not include you or I or anyone else on here. That fact alone means that it is fruitless to try to use OT laws to condone anything sinful.

Secondly, the laws of the NT, the ones that Jesus Himself spoke and taught, are for the Christians, and none of them advocate anything sinful, including slavery and being a poor steward of God's blessings, which include gambling in all its forms. The laws of the NT overwrote the OT laws upon Jesus' death on the cross, thereby making the OT laws of no effect to the people it APPLIED to, again those were the Hebrew nation.


20/20 vision in the bible??? I think so,.. read carefully.

Leviticus 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight.

Again, this law doesn't apply to you or I. Especially since we don't even HAVE altars like they had back then.

Here's another good one for ya, since the debate is open...

My Stepfather insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death.
Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or should we ask the police to do it?

I know this is going to blow your mind, but guess what? We aren't now, nor have we ever been, under the Ten Commandments. WOW, you say? How's that, you say? Read the above explanation concerning the OT laws and who they applied to and the abolishment of those laws. Now, if you don't like your step-father and want to kill him, that's a whole other story. ;-)

However, since Jesus DID speak all of the Commandments, except the Sabbath Day, then we do follow all those principles except the Sabbath Day commandment. Not even Jesus Himself kept the Sabbath Day. Remember, Jesus Himself said, "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath".

Can you honestly call homosexuality a abomination, or for that matter going to the Red Lobster and eating shell fish?

Yes, homosexuality is a sin and an abomination in both the OT and the NT. Eating shellfish? That's an OT law, so it's no longer in effect.

...,am I really not suppose ever come into contact with a woman during her menstrual cycle. Most women I know get upset if you ask. Is there a good way to avoid that one.

Another OT law, and you know what that's about. Not in effect anymore.

Just some more food for thought....

[Lupo]

Not everyone is cut out to be a soldier, so Jesus probably wouldn't have been a soldier. However, the "what would Jesus do" argument is a valid way of looking at things. After all, Jesus did say, "If you love me, keep my commandments". Jesus didn't say, "do as I say, not as I do", He said to follow Him and His actions.



Amen to that!



Proverbs 14:12 says: There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.



The main problem with gambling is this: is using your money to take a chance at anything, pool, lottery, bingo, etc., ever a good way to be considered a "good steward" of God's blessings? Is there ever a circumstance where doing wrong is okay because it seems the right thing to do? Of course not.

Where does the Blble say that gambling (if playing a game of skill for money is even gambling) is a sin?

It's not a sin to give a person money, so why is it a sin if one makes the winning of a game the condition for giving the money? As long as I can afford it, I don't believe there is anything sinful about gambling.

People go to movies or concerts for entertainment. So what if I find entertainment in gambling at pool? Am I any less a good steward of my money than the concert goer? Does all disposable income have to go to the missions to avoid being a sinner? Come on!

Jesus described heaven as a place of many mansions. "Maybe" if someone gives all their money to the missions they will inherit the largest mansion, but I by no means will be condemned to hell because I devoted some of my money to gambling. You can make book on that.

Proverbs 14:12 also applies to misunderstanding of Bible truth.

[2wld4u]

I pray to defeat my enemies in battle, with all my might, I will succeed...


2wld4u

[poolplayer1988]

Where does the Blble say that gambling (if playing a game of skill for money is even gambling) is a sin?

Not every lesson learned from the Bible is stated in so many words. However, we are commanded to 1) be good stewards of God's blessings to us i.e. our money, and 2) not to covet anything of our neighbors. Is gambling being a good steward of God's blessings? Absolutely not. Does gambling promote coveting and cause a person to break one of the ten commandments, that of not coveting? Yes, absolutely.

It's not a sin to give a person money, so why is it a sin if one makes the winning of a game the condition for giving the money? As long as I can afford it, I don't believe there is anything sinful about gambling.

Giving with conditions isn't truly giving out of a pure heart. Giving with some hope of gain in return is not giving at all, but outright greediness. How can you compare true giving with greed?

People go to movies or concerts for entertainment. So what if I find entertainment in gambling at pool? Am I any less a good steward of my money than the concert goer? Does all disposable income have to go to the missions to avoid being a sinner? Come on!

The pursuit of pleasure isn't what life is all about. Sure, you can enjoy entertainment, as long as it isn't against God's divine commandments in the Bible. You can watch a movie, as long as it isn't pornographic; you can go to a concert, as long as it isn't Satanic and God-hating; you can play pool, as long as you aren't coveting what another has. This is how a Christian should live. No, you do not have to donate all your money to missions to avoid being a sinner. But you do have to be a good steward of YOUR blessings, and not covet OTHERS goods or money.

Jesus described heaven as a place of many mansions. "Maybe" if someone gives all their money to the missions they will inherit the largest mansion, but I by no means will be condemned to hell because I devoted some of my money to gambling. You can make book on that.

Well, if you can't get the principle of being a good steward of God's blessings and not being covetous right, you're probably not going to get to heaven in the first place. Those are some of the basic principles, and if you can't understand something that simple, you're going to have a hard time with other principles that you may or may not need to apply to your life. And that is in the GOOD BOOK!

Proverbs 14:12 also applies to misunderstanding of Bible truth.

Where did you get that from? And if that is true, wouldn't you say that you are misinterpreting truth if you are indeed not following God's principles concerning your money?

[cmartor3]

from what i've learned...& i'm not that religious..but god loves all His/her/whatever children no matter what... & gambling is not really a sin, as long as you're winning!!haha.. & if i've ever seen a terrific match it was hillbilly playing at Valley Forge 2005 I don't know who he was playing (if anyone knows, please fill me in) but he was running that bar sized table for hours, he had a match at like 9am & it was only 4am he was still playing....I remember he told me that he won on the bar table, after he lost his AM match. I gained so much respect after watching him play.

[jsp]

Gambling is a tough subject...there is a lot of gray area. I would not say that gambling (or games of chance), in of itself, is intrinsically evil. It all depends on the attitudes and the potential consquences of the parties involved that can make gambling immoral. It's similar to drinking. A glass of wine over dinner for enjoyment wouldn't be considered a sin by anyone. However, if instead the motive is to abuse alcohol by getting drunk over two bottles' worth, then I can argue that would be sinful.

I'm a Catholic...so I may have certain viewpoints that differ from other protestant demoninations or fundamentalist Christians. I'll just revert to what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches...

"2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement.

[stick8]

I have often wondered????? if god created man, the women, from breast bone, the only two people on earth, would we not all be brothers and sisters????? would not all our d.&a. be the same?????? answer please!!!!!!! STICK :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[9balldiva]

We could probally all argue about this subject forever, but why? As long as you live in belief of the Lord, and help others as he asks, I'm not sure that it's such a terrible thing to drop a buck or two into a few machines. As I said to Drake, compulsive obsessiveness, is a whole other subject, in MY OPINION. Also, why is it so BAD to have a little fun with your HARD EARNED MONEY?

I am not sure if you remember me Charlie, but during the Predator Open in Jacksonville Robb Saez and I spoke with you for a good 20 or 30 minutes about this (sorta). I was dating him at the time??!! My point: I had a decent conversation with you about why your Christian beliefs are so strong. You told me about the struggles you have overcome, and how it has changed your perspective on certain things. It's somewhat personal, I think, so I won't invade that on an open forum, but from what I spoke with you about, I think gambling (participating or not) would have affect on your beliefs. You have faith in the Lord, and you feel strongly about it. Who say any of us can judge your loyalty to the Lord, based on dropping 10 bucks in a slot machine, or 2000 bucks on a good gambling game. You are a good person, I saw first hand...these people probably have no clue! Good Luck to you...

[Blackjack]

I remember speaking with you 9balldiva, I enjoyed meeting you and Robby in Jacksonville. I also had a very good conversation about this with Charlie, and I respect the fact that we have opposing views.

I do not like participating in debates over God's word. We can fill this thread with our opinions and "what we think" until we have 25 pages of arguments and disagreements. That solves nothing. I am well educated on The Bible and I have been teaching it for years. I understand that some people couldn't care less about that. The fact remains that all of us are sinners and we all fall short of the glory of God. Just because I am a Christian and have all of this knowledge does not mean I am immune to sin. It is essential that we remember: God is not as concerned with how much we know as with what we are and how we behave. I fight the spiritual battle every day, and I start every day by getting my knees in prayer. I end every day the same exact way. In between I make a lot of mistakes. Another thing I do every morning is read Ephesians 6. I need my spiritual armour if I am to go into battle.

Gambling is another subject I am familar with as well. It is something that I stay away from because it leads me into a path of other self destructive behaviors. Marissa - brings up slavery. Christ's blood gave us everlasting life. I provided you (Marissa) with some good reading material a few months ago. Please open it up and read it. It will open up your eyes to a new understanding of God's word.

Bible Interpretation

When interpreting the bible, we have to be careful not to make the Bible say what we want it to say. We have to avoid superficial interpretation. We must also bridge some gaps.

The first gap to be bridged is language. The Bible was not written in English, and some words have been translatd from Latin to Greek, to English with no exact interpretive word. King James did not write the Bible.

The second gap to be bridged is culture. The Bible was not written last week. It was not written for or by 21st century man. Our cultural comprehension is going to be clouded if we do not have the perspective of someone that lived during the Old Testament. A good 90% of the non-Christian people I have spoken to on Biblical subjects have absolutely no knowledge of why there was a New Testament, and what the New testament did for the Old Testament. This thread proves that as well. Culturally, the Middle East in 900 B.C. is going to be a lot different culturally compared to someone that lives in Cleveland in 2005 A.D., think about it.

The third gap that neds to be bridged is Geography. That same 90% would be unable to show me on current day map where Biblical history occurred. We are currently at war in a land that has an extensive history in the Bible. Many people are unaware of that.

The fourth gap that needs to be bridged is the Historical gap. To understand why things are adressed in the New Testament, one must have the knowledge of the Old Testament, which is a very accurate historical record. The Bible must be considered authoritative where it conflicts with other books of ancient history. Even from an antibiblical perspective, the Bible is the most accurate historical record of ancient history available. Archaeology has consistently validated biblical records. Without possessing that historical knowledge, one cannot accurately interpret the meanings of Scripture.God's command for Israel to collect manna as food in the wilderness was obviously not intended to apply later in history.For example, the Old Testament command to love your neighbor (Lev 19:18) still applies today (Rom 13:9; Gal 5:14; James 2:8), but only nine of the Ten Commandments were carried over into the New Testament. Some of the Old Testament commandments were completely nullified, such as the prohibition against eating certain foods (Lev 11 vs. Acts 10:9-16) and the requirement for circumcision (Lev 12 vs. Rom 4 and Gal 5 - 6).

When bridging those gaps, use GOOD sources. Don't use word of mouth. Don't ask soeone that knows less than you, find the correct resources such as a Morris Book Synopsis, A Concordance, or Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary. These books are excellent aids in opening the world of the Bible. They will also guide you through and bridge all of the these 4 gaps.

Thee are also 4 principles that need to be followed as well:

Literal Principle: Understand Scripture in its Literal sense

Historical Principle: What did it mean to the people it was written for?

Grammatical Principle: What does it REALLY say?

Practical Principle: How does it apply to me?

Here is a great link for further reading about on this topic:

http://www.spiritwatch.org/biblestudy4.htm

The following is a passage from When The Enemy Strikes by Charles Stanley. It is a very accurate assessment to the way I view this subject and many others when I hear justifications for different behaviors.

Through the years countless people have told me that they have a different interpretation of a particular verse or passage, and amazingly it's always an interpretation that allows them to believe what they already want to believe so they can live the way they want to live-and the way they want to live is nearly always a way that holds the least amount of pain, effort, self-denial, and discomfort! They have decided that life should be easy and that no decisions should have terrible or eternal negative consequences. Therefore, anything in God's Word that calls upon them to make a difficult choice or a hard decision-and especially anything in God's Word that might spell out a decision related to eternal consequences-is given a "different interpretation."

People sometimes ask me, "What do you believe about... ?" and they'll name a particular topic or question. I respond, "Let's read what God's Word says." I open the Bible and let the person read aloud a particular passage. The person very often remarks, "Well, I know that's what the Bible says, but there are different opinions on what that means."

There's ultimately only one "different opinion," and that's the devil's opinion. When God says, "Thou shalt not," He means, "Thou shalt not." We can try to define shalt and not every which way we know, but the command is still, "Thou shalt not." The only different opinion is, "Thou may," and that includes the provision, "Thou may without any negative consequence." That's the devil's opinion.

If you find yourself having to manipulate the interpretation of a very straightforward commandment of God in order to justify your opinion, you're walking on a slippery path. When God says, "Don't do it," He means, "Don't do it"! He doesn't say, "Only certain people are not to do it," or "Only some of the time will there be a negative consequence if you do this," or "This is My opinion right now about not doing this, but centuries down the line, it will probably be acceptable to do this." No. God's commands are very clear. They are very precise. And they are absolute.

The devil asked Eve, "Has God said... ?" And when that didn't work, he said, "Surely God didn't mean..." He comes at us with the same tactic. He wants us to wonder if God has really spoken on a particular matter. And then if we discover He has, the devil wants us to question God's meaning.

If the devil can get you to misinterpret God's Word that addresses a particular need or situation, he knows that you are just one step closer to yielding to that temptation.


That says it all.

I did not write this to strike up further debate, just to shed light on my views of bible interpretation. If you want to argue or debate, fiind a pastor. LOL. I know some people will reply back to this without investigating or reading all of what I wrote. That's ok too. If you like to gamble, nothing I type in here is going to stop you from doing that if you have your heart set in that direction. Myself, I try to particiapte in activities that bring me closer to God. Gambling is not one of those activites.

Good Luck & God Bless
Blackjack

[watchez]

Blackjack...I have read what you have posted on this site for quite sometime but never responded. Most of your views of the pool world I tend to agree with.....your one sided view of religion/God, I don't. How can you be so sure what you believe is right? But what is worse than that is that you along with most Bible thumpers(for lack of a better description & not meant to be derogatory) feel that if someone thinks differently they are wrong? Do you really think that Noah sat in an arc for 40 days & 40 nights with two of each animal? Remember a few years back when a group of fanatics killed themselves so they could 'follow Haleys comet'. Most people thought them as crazy. What if they are right? What if you have spent your entire life getting on your knees praying twice a day to only find out when you die that you were wrong? What if you missed your chance to be on the comet for eternal life? I know, I know...the bible says it is a sin to take your own life yet you spend your entire religious life worshipping Jesus who supposedly took his life to save yours. And I can't stand it when someone says after someone dies that 'at least they are in a better place'. What if you really didnt know the true person and they went to Hell? And if they are in a better place, shouldn't we all kill ourselves so we can join them?

You believe in forgiveness?? Picture this--do you have a daughter? A man breaks into your house, ties you up...ties your daughter up and sodomizes her in front of you for say 3 days straight. Then he 'finds Jesus', so I guess you forgive him??

I am no expert on the Bible so I guess you can hold that against me but isn't there a commandment saying that you shouldn't bow down to any idols?? Well what do they have in every church in America---an idol of Jesus Christ! I wish I owned a church or two, I would be rich beyond my imagination.

Separation of church & state in the USA. I think not. Why do churches get tax free income of money? Actually, in my younger years I went around & investigated a lot of religions & there beliefs & practices. The one that I still respect the most was the head of the Hare Krishna (sp?). At least he was honest & looked me & a few of my friends in the eye & said, this is a business & we run it as such. FYI, the Hare Krishnas are one of the biggest sellers of christmas trees in this country. Keep that in mind this holiday season when are around the tree, opening presents, drinking egg nog, and celebrating the birth of christ.

I don't care if you worship a comet, a pet rock, a can of bud light, Pamela Anderson's ass, or jesus christ--just please stop trying to thump it into my head & telling me I am living my life wrong.

[jsp]

When interpreting the bible, we have to be careful not to make the Bible say what we want it to say...But here lies the crux of the problem. If we are to interpret the Bible ourselves, how can we be definitely sure our interpretation is the correct one? There are thousands and thousands of Protestant denominations out there, all claiming their interpretation is THE correct interpretation. Not ALL of them can be correct, right? Christians don't even agree on such basic principles as the eucharist, divorce and remarriage, homosexual marriage, and EVEN the divinity of Christ! All these differences are a result of leaving the interpretation of Scriptures to the individual. This cannot be the way God intended for us.

[9balldiva]

But here lies the crux of the problem. If we are to interpret the Bible ourselves, how can we be definitely sure our interpretation is the correct one? There are thousands and thousands of Protestant denominations out there, all claiming their interpretation is THE correct interpretation. Not ALL of them can be correct, right? Christians don't even agree on such basic principles as the eucharist, divorce and remarriage, homosexual marriage, and EVEN the divinity of Christ! All these differences are a result of leaving the interpretation of Scriptures to the individual. This cannot be the way God intended for us.

...and this is exactly why I do not believe in organized religion. I do, however have faith in a greater being (whether it be God or Allah). I know there has to be someone greater than everyone else...it's everywhere. In life, there is someone greater than me at my job, someone greater than him, and so on, then there's the president (greater than everyone in the country), so logically speaking there would have to be someone who is greater than them ALL.

I have many many questions about the bible, most of which I will never get a satisfactory answer (for myself). Two people reproduced us all? The bible is old, how do we know some guy didn't just pick up some paper and start writing a story? Rising from the dead after 3 days? I just don't know!!

I think I can pray from home (and not be in church), but I also respect the views of those who are religious about church going and worshiping the Christ. Nobody has wrong views...that is what is so great in America! We are all free to worship, pray, have faith, or none of the above if we choose. You may not agree with me, and I may not agree with the next guy, but in any case WE are not the judge of who is right and who is wrong...

[9balldiva]

Go where the sinful are, yes; participate in their sin, absolutely not. Jesus didn't "collect any taxes" or any other of the things the sinners around him did. He taught them, pure and simple.

So, you were walking side by side with Jesus during all of this? I'm not thinking so. How could you possibly know? Oh, the Bible, that's right! Those who wrote the Bible walked side by side with Jesus through all of his days. No way, no how! These thoughts are opinions, not facts. Nobody really knows what happend in the days of Christ, not even the Bible.

Paul did say that if by him eating meat, that he would cause his brother to sin, he would NOT eat meat "while the world standeth". Causing your brother or sister to stumble is a sin and is just as bad as any other sin.

Simple cause and effect you are saying? So, if I get raped, and that causes my brother to kill a man...I am in sin too? Not to mention, the premarital sex...I racked up on sin in this one. NO WAY, the writing of the Bible is not something I can believe. I cannot imagine a man of such good stature (God) considering me in such sins under these circumstances.

Yes, gambling is a sin, especially in a house of God.

So is dancing to baptist, birth control to catholics, abortion to catholics...but under circumstances all of these are commited daily. Our home was very Catholic, along with my entire family, but birth control is in our family, and when my cousin was raped, and got pregnant...she had an abortion. At a baptist wedding everyone is dancing, so all of these people are in sin?? I can't imagine that being the case...

I am not attacking your beliefs, I am just playing my part of the opposing views. I very much respect anybody's religious beliefs, or lack thereof. I just have many questions, and you seem to have many answers...

[9balldiva]

But here lies the crux of the problem. If we are to interpret the Bible ourselves, how can we be definitely sure our interpretation is the correct one? There are thousands and thousands of Protestant denominations out there, all claiming their interpretation is THE correct interpretation. Not ALL of them can be correct, right? Christians don't even agree on such basic principles as the eucharist, divorce and remarriage, homosexual marriage, and EVEN the divinity of Christ! All these differences are a result of leaving the interpretation of Scriptures to the individual. This cannot be the way God intended for us.

...very true! So, in turn, we should all have our own Bible, and interpret it our way, and live by that. I don't go to church because of this. I know I will never find a preacher who teaches the Bible exactly how I have interpreted it...not to mentioned, the preacher automatically believes it is all true...I, however, don't!

[jsp]

...very true! So, in turn, we should all have our own Bible, and interpret it our way, and live by that. I don't go to church because of this. I know I will never find a preacher who teaches the Bible exactly how I have interpreted it...not to mentioned, the preacher automatically believes it is all true...I, however, don't!
Actually, my point is the exact opposite. If you can't rely on a preacher to interpret the Bible, how can you rely on your own interpretation? What makes you believe your interpretation is THE correct one? Surely not every single interpretation can be correct, because that would imply multiple truths. For example, Jesus cannot be ONLY God and ONLY man at the same time. One has to be right and the other wrong, or BOTH have to be wrong. They both can't be right (The real answer is Jesus is BOTH fully God and fully man). God gave us the Catholic Church to be the supreme interpreter, since it was the Catholic Church who compiled the bible in the first place. I discussed this in a similar thread...don't want to go too far off topic with this...
http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=19264&highlight=church

[SPINTHEBALL]

I would like to again profess to be a known sinner.

[9balldiva]

Actually, my point is the exact opposite. If you can't rely on a preacher to interpret the Bible, how can you rely on your own interpretation?


That's a good point, but I would rather rely on what I think it says, then what 18 different preachers think.