Is this type of hit legal?

zpele

zpele

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Alright so lets say you have to make a close hit on the cue ball when it has less than half an inch in between itself and the object ball. You take your cue and lay it down on the table. You then slide the tip just under the outer edge of the cue ball.

Now with the cue still laying on the table you grab it about a foot away from the tip with one hand and quickly bring the tip straight up so that it just contacts the cue ball with enough force to hit the object ball.


Is that legal and if so in what leagues?
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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zpele said:
Alright so lets say you have to make a close hit on the cue ball when it has less than half an inch in between itself and the object ball. You take your cue and lay it down on the table. You then slide the tip just under the outer edge of the cue ball.

Now with the cue still laying on the table you grab it about a foot away from the tip with one hand and quickly bring the tip straight up so that it just contacts the cue ball with enough force to hit the object ball.


Is that legal and if so in what leagues?
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Illegal under WPA (and BCAPL, I think) because you are not taking a forward stroke. That motion -- lifting the cue stick -- is not considered to be a shot.

Some instructors teach the technique, apparently unaware that it is illegal. I think they are doing a disservice to pool.
 
zpele

zpele

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itsfroze said:
The answer to that would be no.
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Are you sure and if so why? Do you have proof?

As far as I can tell its a legal hit. No where in the rules for APA does it say anything about this kind of hit so I'm legitely wondering if you have proof for what you say or if you are saying it because it doesn't 'seem' legal.
 
justadub

justadub

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Sadly, it's apparently legal in APA. At least according to our LO, in any case. I had this discussion with him at a tri-cup a few months ago, when an opposing team player did this. The LO didn't witness the shot, but smiled when I described it to him, saying that this had come up recently at a national event, and that it was legal.

Pretty goofy.
 
zpele

zpele

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Bob Jewett said:
Illegal under WPA (and BCAPL, I think) because you are not taking a forward stroke. That motion -- lifting the cue stick -- is not considered to be a shot.

Some instructors teach the technique, apparently unaware that it is illegal. I think they are doing a disservice to pool.
Click to expand...

Mmk thanks. I have never used it in a match myself but I know the technique exists and wasnt sure if it was legal. Myself I dont even think of using this because there are so many other ways to accomplish the same thing if you have the control.
 
ENGLISH!

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zpele said:
Alright so lets say you have to make a close hit on the cue ball when it has less than half an inch in between itself and the object ball. You take your cue and lay it down on the table. You then slide the tip just under the outer edge of the cue ball.

Now with the cue still laying on the table you grab it about a foot away from the tip with one hand and quickly bring the tip straight up so that it just contacts the cue ball with enough force to hit the object ball.


Is that legal and if so in what leagues?
Click to expand...

I don't know of any. You probably know the reason. They are going to say you are striking the ball with the ferrule INTENIONALLY. I think it is a very innovative idea that should be legal, provided the ferrule does not strike the ball. I know I'm going to get 'jumped' for these next statements by the physics techs. But... I used to shoot jump shots by striking the cue ball very low with a 'level' stick before they outlawed the shot. I did not 'sccop or lift' the ball AND I never felt or heard or thought that the ferrule contacted the ball. I tried to shoot it leagallly. But many shot it illegally, so, they outlawed the shot, I think, to prevent arguments & to take referee subjectiveness out of the equation. What is the difference between elevating the butt to shoot down to eliminate the double hit or what you propose, 'lower the tip & bring it up'. I personally think your way has less chance off a double hit or ferrule contact than the elevated butt method, so long as you don't putthe tip TOO far under the ball. What made you think of this?
 
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T

Trent

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iIve been doing this for yrs but i do it discretly. I use a open bridge and take practice strokes then as the tip goes under the ball I lift my thump (open bridge I rest my shaft on the top of my thump.) up and it produces the same effect but looks like a regular shot and you dont lay the cue on the table.
 
mlfield

mlfield

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I have seen several pros use that shot in tournaments. I think the lifting of the cue is considered a stroke at the cue ball.
 
S

skogstokig

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am i the only one that doesn't see the need for this shot? if the ball is makeable, raise the butt to almost 90° and make a very quick shot. if the ball isn't makeable just shoot away from it..
 
zpele

zpele

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skogstokig said:
am i the only one that doesn't see the need for this shot? if the ball is makeable, raise the butt to almost 90° and make a very quick shot. if the ball isn't makeable just shoot away from it..
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Safeties son. Imagine this scenario which comes up quite a bit.

Only the cueball and the 8ball (or 9ball) are left on the table. You tap the 9ball (or 8ball) into a rail meaning to freeze the cueball to it but you leave a bit of a gap.
 
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Trent said:
iIve been doing this for yrs but i do it discretly. I use a open bridge and take practice strokes then as the tip goes under the ball I lift my thump (open bridge I rest my shaft on the top of my thump.) up and it produces the same effect but looks like a regular shot and you dont lay the cue on the table.
Click to expand...

Discrete? Or sneaky? Just kidding!
 
3kushn

3kushn

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John Novak said:
The minute you laid the cue on the table and let go of it, was a foul..

6.12 Cue Stick on the Table
If the shooter uses his cue stick in order to align a shot by placing it on the table without having a hand on the stick, it is a foul.

http://home.bca-pool.com/associations/7744/files/Fouls_January2008.pdf
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Interesting. This would require using a bridge if a shot can't be reached. Maybe the rule is different in 3C, have to check, but many times I've laid the cue down after ligning it up the walk around the table pick it up and shoot arms stretched out and no line of site. There are positions where a CB can't be reached with or without a bridge or either with hand.
 
mlfield

mlfield

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John Novak said:
The minute you laid the cue on the table and let go of it, was a foul..

6.12 Cue Stick on the Table
If the shooter uses his cue stick in order to align a shot by placing it on the table without having a hand on the stick, it is a foul.

http://home.bca-pool.com/associations/7744/files/Fouls_January2008.pdf
Click to expand...

You can lay your cue on the table with it being a foul. As long as your not lining up a shot or angle your fine. Just laying it on the table is not a foul. I have put my cue on the table many times to let's say, reach for the bridge or get my extension out of my bag.
 
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