Are there any top pros using the slip stroke today?

[Nuts4Tascarellas]

Wrong

YES - Dennis Orcollo does slip stroke! He let's go of the cue and let's it throw forward out of his hand. If that isn't a slip stroke - I will eat my cue. Watch a few videos of him playing at Hard Times on POVPOOL.

 

[icucybe]

YES - Dennis Orcollo does slip stroke! He let's go of the cue and let's it throw forward out of his hand. If that isn't a slip stroke - I will eat my cue. Watch a few videos of him playing at Hard Times on POVPOOL.

I see Shane doing the same thing too sometimes. He let's go of his for a little bit on the foward motion and regrips after throwing foward.

Maybe the video I posted is not the best example, but he does use it sometimes.

Hey, we're all in agreement. ...what other worlds can we conquer together?

Most of the classic "slipstrokests" held the cue near the balance point or front part of the wrap - then on their last backstroke they would move their hand back a few inches....sometimes more if necessary.

Basically, their hand moved back instead of the cue in the backswing, and as they contacted the cue ball their hand tightened (in one way, shape or form). This was very effective on slower, worn felt, however on today's equipment it would be superfluous (exceeding what is sufficient or necessary).

Nope. Not a slip stroke.

May not in that video, but he does use it on power shots.

 

[icucybe]

That aint no slip stroke. Just grip position adjustment.
At best one of those was a stroke slip. Releasing the cue on forward stroke.

This is just one video example, but you said it yourself he does let go of it on the foward throwing motion and regrips after. Even if it is very small. He does this a lot if you pay attention, just not all the time. If you look it up or see him play in person is very easy to notice.

But Shane does use a slip stroke or stroke slip more often than some.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Absolutely correct, most slip stokers I have seen always held the cue forward of perpendicular to the floor. Slipping the hand back brought them to perpendicular when the contacted the cueball.

Agreement is a rare thing on AZ.

:thumbup:

Hey, we're all in agreement. :thumbup: ...what other worlds can we conquer together?

Most of the classic "slipstrokests" held the cue near the balance point or front part of the wrap - then on their last backstroke they would move their hand back a few inches....sometimes more if necessary.

Basically, their hand moved back instead of the cue in the backswing, and as they contacted the cue ball their hand tightened (in one way, shape or form). This was very effective on slower, worn felt, however on today's equipment it would be superfluous (exceeding what is sufficient or necessary).

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Throwing the cue forward is not by definition a slip stroke.

Everything tastes better with gravy.

YES - Dennis Orcollo does slip stroke! He let's go of the cue and let's it throw forward out of his hand. If that isn't a slip stroke - I will eat my cue. Watch a few videos of him playing at Hard Times on POVPOOL.

 

[JohnnyP]

This photo shows my cue was decelerating before impact:

It looks like I hit the cue ball about 30msec late.

My theory about why (some say) you can get more action with a slip stroke is that it changes your stroke timing. The stick is getting a few inches head start.

Bob Jewitt and Dr. Dave posted this video showing cue speed for a "medium" pendulum stroke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfzUvIzKJR4#t=90

Near the end of the stroke the cue is traveling about 5.5 mph.

Convert this to inches per msec:

5.5 mi x 5280 ft x 1 hr x 1 min x 1 sec x 12 in
------- -------- ----- ------ ------ ------
1 hr 1 mi 60 min 60 sec 1000msec 1 ft

= 0.0968 inches per msec.

I contacted the cue ball 30 msec late, so 0.0968 x 30 = 2.9 inches.

Bingo, with a 2.9" slip stroke I would have contacted the cue ball at max cue speed, compensating for my decelerating cue.

 

[icucybe]

Throwing the cue forward is not by definition a slip stroke.

Everything tastes better with gravy.

Whatever it is one thing is for sure is a stroke and is sliding or slipping on his hand. How can you slip a cue in your hand without throwing it a bit foward or backwards?

Sounds to me like some people have a bigger obvious slip than others and this might be were we disagree. But if you slip or slide your cue in your hand on your stroke by definition I would say you could call it a slip stroke or stroke slip. This would involved some kind of foward or backward throw of the cue to initiate the slip.

 

[sfleinen]

YES - Dennis Orcollo does slip stroke! He let's go of the cue and let's it throw forward out of his hand. If that isn't a slip stroke - I will eat my cue. Watch a few videos of him playing at Hard Times on POVPOOL.

Like Tony_in_MD said, everything tastes better with gravy. What you're describing isn't a slip stroke. That's a stroke slip -- where you let go of the cue on the forward stroke and let it slide in your hand. A slip stroke is when the slip takes place on the back stroke, a re-grip takes place, and then the cue is delivered forward (the grip hand doesn't let go at this point).

Easy way to remember the difference between the two:

"Slip stroke" = slip, then stroke
"Stroke slip" = stroke, then slip

-Sean <-- passes the salt to blackboarowner

 

[JohnnyP]

I posted this video of Wayne Norcross slip stroking at 00:57. In the next shot he slip strokes and stroke slips on the same shot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb6CKYqTC98#t=54

 

[icucybe]

I posted this video of Wayne Norcross slip stroking at 00:57. In the next shot he slip strokes and stroke slips on the same shot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb6CKYqTC98#t=54

This was a good watch, thanks for sharing!

 

[ShootingArts]

short video of slipstroke

My connection has slowed to a crawl, overused satellite this month. Anyway, for those with very slow connections like mine here is a short twenty second video clearly showing a slip stroke. Releasing the cue on the forward stroke is pretty much the opposite of what most of us are calling a slip stroke which involves releasing the cue on the back stroke. No throw here, the cue is moving slower than the hand.

Since he is demonstrating the stroke instead of playing it is a nice clear modern well lit video. Often it is very hard to see slight slip strokes when some one is playing because it is so smooth and both the camera and our eyes tend to shift away from the grip hand to see the hit.

I have to grant the guy using the slip stroke here can't pocket a ball with it!

Hu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVRo4IiBaJc

 

[Woof Biscuit]

Josh Roberts.

 

[Colin Colenso]

As much as I respect Tor Lowry, I'm with Bob Jewett on the almost zero advantage of a slip stroke and potential disadvantages.

As discussed in my power breaking video, more power can be produced with a shorter hand grip, where the major muscles for creating cue speed are in their strongest positions, that is, more contracted, namely the biceps, pectoralis major, anterior deltoids and latisimus dorsi (lats).

Most of the power shots I play in this video utilize a shortened arm, which essentially is the opposite of what a slip stroke produces. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keznf66dSHE

Note: Biomechanically, it is known that a contracted muscle can exert more force than an extended muscle. Think of the top section of a bench press. This is when the triceps and pecs are at their closest to full contraction. We can push about twice as hard at the top as we can when both muscles are nearly fully extended.

 

[JohnnyP]

The acceleration graph I posted shows I hit the cue ball late. I'm thinking that my stroke hand was a few inches forward of 90° when I addressed the cue ball. I'm often told I need to move my grip hand back a few inches.

In other words, I was already into the follow through at the address. I was near the end of my stroke at contact, so the cue had to be decelerating.

If you look at many of the old straight poolers, their stroking hand is forward of 90° at the address. Without a huge elbow drop, the cue was near the end of travel at the contact point.

I think the slip stroke was used to "get a little extra" stroke on the ball, without knowing why it worked.

Refer to the calculation in my above post. A 2.9" slip stroke would have shifted the stroke timing enough to move the hit from a decelerating one to one at max cue speed.

Now we know why it works.

 

[JohnnyP]

Coiln:

You magnificent monster.

 

[Old Nine Baller]

Like Tony_in_MD said, everything tastes better with gravy. What you're describing isn't a slip stroke. That's a stroke slip -- where you let go of the cue on the forward stroke and let it slide in your hand. A slip stroke is when the slip takes place on the back stroke, a re-grip takes place, and then the cue is delivered forward (the grip hand doesn't let go at this point).

Easy way to remember the difference between the two:

"Slip stroke" = slip, then stroke
"Stroke slip" = stroke, then slip

-Sean <-- passes the salt to blackboarowner

"Slip-Stroke" should actually be "Slip On Backstroke"

"Stroke-Slip" should be "Slip On Forward Stroke".

Much easier to remember every 6 months when this topic is raised.

Orcullo slips in both directions at various times.

Cornbread slipped in both directions at various times.

Babyface slipped in both directions at various times.

Shane has a very minimal slip in either or both directions. It's not pronounced enough to make a difference.

The main thing these players have in common is they are very loose and play/played very well.

ONB

 

[icucybe]

The acceleration graph I posted shows I hit the cue ball late. I'm thinking that my stroke hand was a few inches forward of 90° when I addressed the cue ball. I'm often told I need to move my grip hand back a few inches.

In other words, I was already into the follow through at the address. I was near the end of my stroke at contact, so the cue had to be decelerating.

If you look at many of the old straight poolers, their stroking hand is forward of 90° at the address. Without a huge elbow drop, the cue was near the end of travel at the contact point.

I think the slip stroke was used to "get a little extra" stroke on the ball, without knowing why it worked.

Refer to the calculation in my above post. A 2.9" slip stroke would have shifted the stroke timing enough to move the hit from a decelerating one to one at max cue speed.

Now we know why it works.

Good observation! Thanks for sharing!

"Slip-Stroke" should actually be "Slip On Backstroke"

"Stroke-Slip" should be "Slip On Forward Stroke".

Much easier to remember every 6 months when this topic is raised.

Orcullo slips in both directions at various times.

Cornbread slipped in both directions at various times.

Babyface slipped in both directions at various times.

Shane has a very minimal slip in either or both directions. It's not pronounced enough to make a difference.

The main thing these players have in common is they are very loose and play/played very well.

ONB

That's a good way to put it. I just want to say, Shane slips his hand a bit on the backward motion to grip the cue were it feels right like mention earlier. Most of us if not all do the same. No slip stroking there.

 

[CJ Wiley]

This isn't a slip stroke, it's a "slippery slope" for most players.

Many players let the cue go back in their hand during their practice/warm up strokes....this is actually a very good practice when the player understands what they are trying to accomplish. I have incorporated that in my game recently.

YES - Dennis Orcollo does slip stroke! He let's go of the cue and let's it throw forward out of his hand. If that isn't a slip stroke - I will eat my cue. Watch a few videos of him playing at Hard Times on POVPOOL.

 

[Old Nine Baller]

"Slip-Stroke" should actually be "Slip On Backstroke"

"Stroke-Slip" should be "Slip On Forward Stroke".

Much easier to remember every 6 months when this topic is raised.

Orcullo slips in both directions at various times.

Cornbread slipped in both directions at various times.

Babyface slipped in both directions at various times.

Shane has a very minimal slip in either or both directions. It's not pronounced enough to make a difference.

The main thing these players have in common is they are very loose and play/played very well.

ONB

Good observation! Thanks for sharing!

That's a good way to put it. I just want to say, Shane slips his hand a bit on the backward motion to grip the cue were it feels right like mention earlier. Most of us if not all do the same. No slip stroking there.

Of course. The reason I said Shane does it both ways is because he doesn't do it both ways.

ONB

 

[CJ Wiley]

using a "slip stoke" is something different because it happens on the backswing

At this last tournament in Houston I noticed that Jeremy Jones uses a slight "slip stroke" on many of his shots. He has an unorthodox hand position (look who's talking), however his stroke and cue ball control are phenomenal.

There's a good reason to let the cue "slip" back as you're preparing to hit the cue ball, although using a "slip stoke" is something different because it happens on the backswing of the actual shot.