Some thoughts about playing on fast cushions

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
As some of you may know, I have been rather vocal about the super fast cushion trend, and in short I'm not in favour of it. But I live in the real world, and my poolhall, has now changed the cushion on almost every table to a much faster type. I must admit, it has had an effect on my game.

First, since the cushions are so much faster, controlling the ball using the cushions becomes more difficult. Certain 2 rail shots can no longer be reliably lengthened by applying spin, but only comes off much faster with spin than without. Kill shots also become less effective, but still can be done, of course. It just feels like you have to use more spin, and the fine increments that could be used on more spin-responsive cushions, just do not work anymore. The new cushions, in fact, act a lot like snooker cushions. I used to use 1/2 tip, 1/4 tips etc, but there is just no point now. I either have to use a full tip, or no spin at all. Let me explain that further: If the shot goes straight into the cushion, you have a chance to affect the angle, but if there is any angle at all, it will follow the natural path almost every time. To me it looks like it comes off with reverse, when I'm using 1 tip running english, that's how drastic the difference is!

Basically it limits what can be done with the cueball, and has hugely decreased the position play skill-gap between the good player and the lesser ones. Fortunately you can still beat them with better speed control, patterns and of course potting, but it feels like you are giving them a huge spot. I'm playing on 760 cloth, with lightening fast rails. I havent' played a full stroke since they installed the damned cushions.

The game itself has changed to a potting game, like snooker, with center table position with center ball. As a player I used to pride myself on my position play, which I feel was always above my overall skill level, due to long hours of drill practice. I'm now close to a C level IMO position player, but one that stays in line more than most of them perhaps. I play area postion and stay away from english, as the advantages have more or less disappeared. I have to rely on potting and speed control, and endlessly bunting/rolling balls in. What a sad state of affairs when you have to go to a snooker table with match cloth, to let your stroke out!! I might have to switch diciplines completely, if this trend continues.
 
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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
As some of you may know, I have been rather vocal about the super fast cushion trend, and in short I'm not in favour of it. But I live in the real world, and my poolhall, has now changed the cushion on almost every table to a much faster type. I must admit, it has had an effect on my game.

First, since the cushions are so much faster, controlling the ball using the cushions becomes more difficult. Certain 2 rail shots can no longer be reliably lengthened by applying spin, but only comes off much faster with spin than without. Kill shots also become less effective, but still can be done, of course. It just feels like you have to use more spin, and the fine increments that could be used on more spin-responsive cushions, just do not work anymore. The new cushions, in fact, act a lot like snooker cushions. I used to use 1/2 tip, 1/4 tips etc, but there is just no point now. I either have to use a full tip, or no spin at all. Let me explain that further: If the shot goes straight into the cushion, you have a chance to affect the angle, but if there is any angle at all, it will follow the natural path almost every time. To me it looks like it comes off with reverse, when I'm using 1 tip running english, that's how drastic the difference is!

Basically it limits what can be done with the cueball, and has hugely decreased the position play skill-gap between the good player and the lesser ones. Fortunately you can still beat them with better speed control, patterns and of course potting, but it feels like you are giving them a huge spot. I'm playing on 760 cloth, with lightening fast rails. I havent' played a full stroke since they installed the damned cushions.

The game itself has changed to a potting game, like snooker, with center table position with center ball. As a player I used to pride myself on my position play, which I feel was always above my overall skill level, due to long hours of drill practice. I'm now close to a C level IMO position player, but one that stays in line more than most of them perhaps. I play area postion and stay away from english, as the advantages have more or less disappeared. I have to rely on potting and speed control, and endlessly bunting/rolling balls in. What a sad state of affairs when you have to go to a snooker table with match cloth, to let your stroke out!! I might have to switch diciplines completely, if this trend continues.
Has the thought ever once crossed your mind that the fast cushions you're referring to that are killing your game....may NOT even be the result of the cushion's in the first place?
Maybe, just maybe....the result of the playability of the cushion's had something to do with who replaced them. Maybe the cushions that were used were the wrong cushions, maybe they weren't designed for the older style of rails they were installed on...you never did mention what kind of tables we're talking about here, so maybe the pool table mechanic is at fault....ever think about that? Sub rails and cushions MUST be matched up correctly in order to set the standard in which a table plays, there is NO shortcut to the math of that. Why is it that I could walk into that same pool room you're talking about, rebuild all the pool tables there....and not ONE person complain about the speed of the cushion's or banking short???....it MUST be the cushions....right?:rolleyes:
 

decent dennis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Has the thought ever once crossed your mind that the fast cushions you're referring to that are killing your game....may NOT even be the result of the cushion's in the first place?
Maybe, just maybe....the result of the playability of the cushion's had something to do with who replaced them. Maybe the cushions that were used were the wrong cushions, maybe they weren't designed for the older style of rails they were installed on...you never did mention what kind of tables we're talking about here, so maybe the pool table mechanic is at fault....ever think about that? Sub rails and cushions MUST be matched up correctly in order to set the standard in which a table plays, there is NO shortcut to the math of that. Why is it that I could walk into that same pool room you're talking about, rebuild all the pool tables there....and not ONE person complain about the speed of the cushion's or banking short???....it MUST be the cushions....right?:rolleyes:

Damn, me loves me some me.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Has the thought ever once crossed your mind that the fast cushions you're referring to that are killing your game....may NOT even be the result of the cushion's in the first place?
Maybe, just maybe....the result of the playability of the cushion's had something to do with who replaced them. Maybe the cushions that were used were the wrong cushions, maybe they weren't designed for the older style of rails they were installed on...you never did mention what kind of tables we're talking about here, so maybe the pool table mechanic is at fault....ever think about that? Sub rails and cushions MUST be matched up correctly in order to set the standard in which a table plays, there is NO shortcut to the math of that. Why is it that I could walk into that same pool room you're talking about, rebuild all the pool tables there....and not ONE person complain about the speed of the cushion's or banking short???....it MUST be the cushions....right?:rolleyes:

Whatever the problem is, it seems to be growing and needs to STOP, IMHO.

The game stops being the game the more it keeps changing. Break cues, jump cues, one-foul BIH, magic racks, super-fast cloth and rails, etc., etc., etc.

I can and will play any game on any type of equipment, but all the "improvements" have not really improved anything, as far as I'm concerned.
 

Bank it

Uh Huh, Sounds Legit
Silver Member
Whatever the problem is, it seems to be growing and needs to STOP, IMHO.



The game stops being the game the more it keeps changing. Break cues, jump cues, one-foul BIH, magic racks, super-fast cloth and rails, etc., etc., etc.



I can and will play any game on any type of equipment, but all the "improvements" have not really improved anything, as far as I'm concerned.


I'm with you. You're actually penalized for possessing a stroke.
 

Wybrook

A. Wheeler
Silver Member
With fast rails, it actually helps to have a better stroke...

I learned playing on tables that were like glass. It was worn out Simonis 760 that would spin in place before drawing back.

I learned how to kill the CB by using more stroke and hitting the ball harder. People get gun shy when they aren't used to fast cloth/rails and it makes them play with hesitation.

I think once you learn how to apply the proper stroke, you will find the table is fine. People think you don't need a stroke for a fast table, but they are incorrect. You need one for different reasons other than to overcome the super slowness of the Mali cloth you used to play on.. :)
 

philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Played on a Diamond bar box with Simonis this last weekend in preparation for the Expo. Talk about fast to the point of delicate. I normally play on 9 foot Gold Crowns with Simonis. The speed of the Diamond bar box makes it a completely different game.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With fast rails, it actually helps to have a better stroke...

I learned playing on tables that were like glass. It was worn out Simonis 760 that would spin in place before drawing back.

I learned how to kill the CB by using more stroke and hitting the ball harder. People get gun shy when they aren't used to fast cloth/rails and it makes them play with hesitation.

I think once you learn how to apply the proper stroke, you will find the table is fine. People think you don't need a stroke for a fast table, but they are incorrect. You need one for different reasons other than to overcome the super slowness of the Mali cloth you used to play on.. :)

I play with a "dead" ball cue ball. Hit them hard and inside center with a stroke. I don't baby the balls or try to spin them around unless it is an absolute necessity.

People always look at me when I play because I'm hitting the ball twice as hard and anyone else. The only difference is my ball isn't spinning all over the place.
 

poolhustler

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Has the thought ever once crossed your mind that the fast cushions you're referring to that are killing your game....may NOT even be the result of the cushion's in the first place?
Maybe, just maybe....the result of the playability of the cushion's had something to do with who replaced them. Maybe the cushions that were used were the wrong cushions, maybe they weren't designed for the older style of rails they were installed on...you never did mention what kind of tables we're talking about here, so maybe the pool table mechanic is at fault....ever think about that? Sub rails and cushions MUST be matched up correctly in order to set the standard in which a table plays, there is NO shortcut to the math of that. Why is it that I could walk into that same pool room you're talking about, rebuild all the pool tables there....and not ONE person complain about the speed of the cushion's or banking short???....it MUST be the cushions....right?:rolleyes:

Haven't been around much... but nice to see that Glen is still madly in love with himself... :rolleyes:
 

Gunn_Slinger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Whatever the problem is, it seems to be growing and needs to STOP, IMHO.

The game stops being the game the more it keeps changing. Break cues, jump cues, one-foul BIH, magic racks, super-fast cloth and rails, etc., etc., etc.

I can and will play any game on any type of equipment, but all the "improvements" have not really improved anything, as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. Pool has become a game of 'rollers' not strokers! *60 is bad enough, but the people using 760 can go 7-8 rails with no stroke. ( ball rules are a joke.
ps Glen knows his business.
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Basically it limits what can be done with the cueball,

Err, no. Fast rails make it possible to do things with the cue ball that cannot be done with slower rails.

Fast rails (and fast cloth) makes you need a more delicate stroke, a more deliberate stroke; nothing more.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Haven't been around much... but nice to see that Glen is still madly in love with himself... :rolleyes:

I just feel that if I can take the same tables, replace the cushions with the correct ones, and the tables play right....then why don't everyone else that works on pool tables...do the same damn thing if they want to be paid to be a pool table mechanic....and all you guys that want to blame the cloth and cushions for the tables not playing right.....to start pointing that blame in the right direction!
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
I just feel that if I can take the same tables, replace the cushions with the correct ones, and the tables play right....then why don't everyone else that works on pool tables...do the same damn thing if they want to be paid to be a pool table mechanic....and all you guys that want to blame the cloth and cushions for the tables not playing right.....to start pointing that blame in the right direction!

Is there a method to pull the cloth consistently so that there are not super tight & then just tight & not so tight spots on the same rail?
 
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ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Yes, it's called correct training:grin:

The reason as you probably know is that there is little consistency when different parts of the same rail are reacting differently.

It's a coin toss & takes ALL skill out of banking.

I was wondering more along the lines of a device like a long clamp or something.

Perhaps you should start a school & certification program for table mechanics.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
The reason as you probably know is that there is little consistency when different parts of the same rail are reacting differently.

It's a coin toss & takes ALL skill out of banking.

I was wondering more along the lines of a device like a long clamp or something.

Perhaps you should start a school & certification program for table mechanics.

I might consider that....when customers start placing at least some kind of value on their pool table(s) like they do with the cues, chalk, and cue tips they're so proud to spend the money on to own;)
 

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
What bothers me most about fast cushions is how radically banks shorten with the smallest amount of speed. The tables I'm playing on now have very fast cushions and I've had 30-degree banks (second diamond into corner pocket) come straight off the cushion. I'm used to adjusting a bank shot for speed, but this is ridiculous.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
What bothers me most about fast cushions is how radically banks shorten with the smallest amount of speed. The tables I'm playing on now have very fast cushions and I've had 30-degree banks (second diamond into corner pocket) come straight off the cushion. I'm used to adjusting a bank shot for speed, but this is ridiculous.

It helps to know what kind of pool tables you're talking about, as most people only complain about Diamonds, but there's a lot of pool tables out here...and they're not all Diamonds so it might give some kind of perspective to this industry as a whole.
 
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