I'm sorry, did you leave your argument somewhere else?
Why do you call facts, "crap"? Or is it you just don't like 'em, so you vented?
Jeff Livingston
PS Thanks for allowing me an opp to post it again.
BCA Ignores Pro Pool and Continues to Fatten Industry Members' Pockets
- Thread starter JAM
- Start date
I'm sorry, did you leave your argument somewhere else?
Why do you call facts, "crap"? Or is it you just don't like 'em, so you vented?
Jeff Livingston
PS Thanks for allowing me an opp to post it again.
To add to the facts, in Texas the govt is spending $72 MILLION on ONE fuggin' High Skool stadium!!!!!!
http://www.ajc.com/sports/take-look...ll-stadium-katy-texas/5mZaadSIfoKGpHqnCMTiLP/
Nah, that has nothing to do with pool being the black sheep of zoning boards, skool boards, and city councils. Pool gets its share: forced closings, age controls, licenses, taxes, zonings, signage, and on and on and some brave owners survive in spite of those govt-caused disadvantages.
$72 MILLION.
Half of that is what saved the whole bowling industry! ONE stadium for high skool football. $72 MILLION.
Where else would be a better place to post this, so I can go there and post this? Thanks.
Jeff Livingston
That's a lot of moola for 5 games a year
But, at least they are finally pooling resources and building one stadium for multiple schools. That's logic that befuddled them in the past. But it still seems like a lot of moola to me
I'm 26 years old. When I was in highschool (all boys Catholic mind you) I was working in the local pool room by 17. I was pretty popular in school and decided to start a "billiards club". All I needed to start a club was get a teacher to moderate n that was the easy part. It consisted of meeting at the poolroom for a few hours of practice and the owner through in a drink n a hotdog or chips for 10$ each. Eventually I ran a single elimination tournament. Even though there was some teachers and administrators resisting, I showed them there was no alchohol n the room didn't actually open til 5 so it would just be the students n the moderator. I even got a local shortstop to come to one meet n offer lessons n do some trickshots n cool exhibition type stuff. Unfortunately the room closed after my senior year n I was basically doing all the organizing so no one kept it goin by I'm living proof this can be done if you go about it the right way. I was amazed how much buzz it started I was constantly getting asked about it n kids really were exposed to pool in a whole new way. I think most of them never knew about a poolroom n just played in a friends dads basement. The moral is it was great in the short term n I was just trying to help out the room I worked for n have some college application highlights but I learned real quick that everyone loves pool and if it's portrayed in the right way it can be very popular. If there was an organization that would help schools start these programs I'm sure pool would double in popularity within 10 years in America. Who knows maybe this is my calling n I'll be the guy to start it
If you've ever been to Katy, you'd find that $72 million totally believable. Katy is football crazy.
But not one good poolhall in the area!
But not one good poolhall in the area!
There's no money left for such things! It's called opportunity costs: if you spend a dollar on x, you can no longer spend it on y.
Jeff Livingston
BCA isn't the answer
Let’s be very clear here, the BCA is a for profit trade show organization. They offer very little value to the game, and dare I say the industry. They have gone so far as to compete with their own members with their EXPO magazine competing with BCA members Billiards Digest, Pool & Billiard, and Professor Q-Ball for advertising dollars. They look to the (non profit and non-funded) BEF to drive youth pool and have made no effort to grow the game in recent years.
What I believe we are crying out for here is something akin to the USGA (golf). The USGA promotes golf and it’s positive attributes, produces the US Open and governs the sport (defining the rules and regulations for the game).
Let’s be honest here, we can barely get any sort of unified rules for a league, let alone from event to event. Anytime I go to a tournament –*amateur or pro there is a different set of rules…
I’ll close with this, the BCA most likely isn’t the answer. We need a non-profit, professionally run, USPBA (US Pocket Billiards Association).
Let’s be very clear here, the BCA is a for profit trade show organization. They offer very little value to the game, and dare I say the industry. They have gone so far as to compete with their own members with their EXPO magazine competing with BCA members Billiards Digest, Pool & Billiard, and Professor Q-Ball for advertising dollars. They look to the (non profit and non-funded) BEF to drive youth pool and have made no effort to grow the game in recent years.
What I believe we are crying out for here is something akin to the USGA (golf). The USGA promotes golf and it’s positive attributes, produces the US Open and governs the sport (defining the rules and regulations for the game).
Let’s be honest here, we can barely get any sort of unified rules for a league, let alone from event to event. Anytime I go to a tournament –*amateur or pro there is a different set of rules…
I’ll close with this, the BCA most likely isn’t the answer. We need a non-profit, professionally run, USPBA (US Pocket Billiards Association).
If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.
The BCA organization is responsible for professional pool. They are the governing body of professional pool in North America.
They need to change their name from Billiard Congress of America to Billiards Industry Vendors of America if they want to continue to exist as an organization. They do nothing -- I repeat NOTHING -- for professional pool, and it is their duty and obligation to do so. It is a damn shame what they have done.
The BCA organization is responsible for professional pool. They are the governing body of professional pool in North America.
They need to change their name from Billiard Congress of America to Billiards Industry Vendors of America if they want to continue to exist as an organization. They do nothing -- I repeat NOTHING -- for professional pool, and it is their duty and obligation to do so. It is a damn shame what they have done.
My school(assholes) woildnt allow anybody who wasnt a jock to set foot on the grass for any reason. Any of you care to bet how fast my fat ass can run a mile? I'LL Be 47 on sept 23, make your bets.
Jason
I'd like to see a huge organization like the APA take over, have the regular handicapped system that we know, graduate and become advanced and them possibly pro. so in my pool world apa leagues and nationals would be untouched/unchanged . Then have a tournament tour for advanced players along side of a pro tournament spread around the country Any advanced or pro would not be eligible for league nor would league players be eligible for tourneys outside of league. All three would require paid sanction dues varying in price. there could be requirements for cashing in nationals at a 7 level to become advanced and so on becoming a pro.
That's a nice post. I don't have too much of a problem with them myself, they are just a business, as you pointed out.
My major beef is with actual league players I suppose. Let's really dissect this. If you want to play two or three times a week, and are willing to spend money to do so, why would you not want to put the money into local tournaments with equal playing fields for all? This encourages all players to play better, and promotes the game locally through these local events. In other words, money is going into pool players pockets rather than some rich asshole's.
I know people enjoy leagues, and I do respect that. I really do. But, I think all leagues are a detriment to pool. They don't promote improvement, nothing is given back, and all the money is going out (as opposed to staying within the pool community). It's lose lose.
I genuinely respect those who will disagree with me, but at the same time I really feel if each league community got replaced instead with one guy that was willing to give some time to the game for the better good, a much better system of tournaments that promote the game while keeping the funds within the community would exist.
No offense, but league players do NOT owe anyone anything. Just like Softball players do not owe MLB anything. THey play a recreational game for their enjoyment. If Pro Pool and the various organizations can't get their act together, don't attack the folks who are actually keeping pool alive.
Without league players, pool would be removed from life support and be officially declared dead. 300K plus folks playing and spending money on pool can't be bad, can it ?
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I agree with this 100 percent!
We have been through this before in other threads. The problem is that you are still trying to impose the way you value and enjoy pool onto everybody else, as if there can't be any other way to enjoy pool, or nobody else has a right to their own preferences for how they enjoy pool. Because of your incredible bias all that you can see is that everybody should be supporting supporting your version of pool that you prefer and value, and that only your version is worthwhile. Because serious competitive tournament pool is the only kind of pool that you value, everybody else must be wrong if they aren't supporting your version. If you give all this some serious thought surely you can see how narcissistic, arrogant, unfair, and illogical your viewpoint is.
Some people care about pool only to the extent that it is something to do while they are drinking. If pool tables didn't exist they would be playing darts, or shuffleboard, or whatever else to occupy their time while drinking.
For some people pool is just an excuse to get out of the house and to be around other people and to socialize.
For some people pool is about the fun involved in playing. They don't even care much if they win or lose. The value to them is just in the fun of playing.
For some people pool is about competition, and trying to find out where you are in the pecking order, and trying to be better than others and to dominate them as much as possible. Though they may not consciously realize it, for many of the people in this group a lot of it is about ego, and seeking to stroke and build your own ego. You sound like you are mostly in this competitive type player group.
For some people pool is about money, period. The game isn't worth playing if there isn't money on the line. It isn't worth playing for competition, for fun, or for anything else. It's only about the money. They may not even like the game. Heck, they might even hate it.
For some people it can be about more than one of these things, like for example it could be about socializing, the fun of it, competition, and drinking in equal parts for example. Lots of league players probably fall into this or a similar group.
Bottom line is that different aspects of pool are enjoyable to different people. We don't all always value the game the same way, or get our enjoyment and pleasure from it in the same ways or for the same reasons. You have got to stop looking at it as if there is no way to enjoy the game other than the way that you do, or that even if there are other ways to enjoy it that people should have to enjoy it the same way and for the same reasons that you do and that they shouldn't get to have their own personal preferences. League players or anybody else are not hurting pool. They just aren't supporting the type of pool that you happen to most enjoy, and that's your problem, not theirs. They don't owe it to you to support what you like instead of what they like. They aren't "killing pool". They just aren't into the type of pool that you are, and it is perfectly ok for them to have their own preferences for the type of pool they like just like you have yours.
If you still aren't quite getting it then consider this. Somewhere there is a guy sitting there saying "that Ekojasiloop is an idiot who isn't supporting pool because he won't quit his job and play full time so he can get as good as possible. Pool is only worth playing if you are giving it 100% which means not working. Because Ekojasiloop and the others like him won't do this we don't get to have as many people on the pro tour and the people like him are what is killing pool because they won't quit their job and actually dedicate themselves to it." Is this guy right?
Somewhere else there is another guy sitting there say "that damn Ekojasiloop is an idiot. Pool is about the pure fun and enjoyment of playing. He is missing out by having to have it be about competition. People like him that can't just play for the fun and love of the sport are what is killing pool." Is this guy right?
The answer is that neither guy is right. You just aren't supporting the type of pool that they happen to prefer and value. You just value pool differently than they do. They are just trying to impose their values on you, as if you shouldn't be able to have your own, just like the way that you have been trying to impose the way you value pool onto league players and others as if they shouldn't be able to have their own preferences for how they enjoy and value pool.
How is it that pool is good enough for the Boys Club, but not acceptable in formal educational institutions? I missed that part of history. Maybe pool can promoted as an acceptable form of "extra curricular activity" in HS.
I paid $15 in "membership fee" to play BCA 9 Ball in one pool hall, and then I had to pay another $15 "membership fee" to play BCA 9 Ball in another pool hall. Ok, that's my only complaint about BCA. I don't have any input about BCA ignoring professional pool, but I do wonder what ever happened to the big money matches.
You value some of their money going to the pros; they don't. And it's THEIR money, not yours.
Value is subjective, not objective, fyi.
If anyone wants to get some money from the league players, offer them something each of them actually wants in exchange for his money.
Bless the league players, the only successful aspect of pool, it seems.\
Jeff Livingston
My thoughts exactly, and I will use your example of the "Boys Club" as a great example. I was not aware of that, but the more ammo, the better. If I can get it to one HS in the area, I think it will grow quickly.