Predator table review, 2024 Expo

[Texas Carom Club]

Am I the only one that remembers playing in the derby 20+ years ago when Diamond unveiled the smart table, and watched balls flying up in the air off the table of any bank shot with some pace and bouncing straight out on angle banks?

Groupie apologists can make up any excuse they want.
Those tables sucked something awful and it was embarrassing that professionals had to play on those pieces of junk at almost every tournament for years before they even began to addressed the rail issue.
But pool being as broke as it is, professionals have no choice but to endorse anything dumping money or product into pool, just like the Sardo Rack fiasco.
The players know its a joke.
But if they have to play on a piece of junk cause that’s the only shot to make a living, they will shut up like good obedient sheep.

Red label Blue label.
Probably the same rails with a different color on that piece of metal.

Diamonds will ALWAYS suck.

I’ve seen plenty of video of the 01 derby on diamonds
No one throwing their hands up or announcers saying boy that banked wrong

 

[PoolPlayerNNJ]

Jersey Mel, I miss that guy. We had a great time when we played in Lodi.

I miss him too. Like many others, he had his demons. On his best days, he was a gentlemen. He tried to stay away on his worst days. Wasn't always successful. Who is, LOL. Personally, I think between his demons, and not getting enough games, his prime was much shorter than it would have been. But when he was in shape, in stroke, peak performance, I don't know many US pro's that he couldn't play even and be competitive. At his best, I saw him tangle with the Fusco's often, Miz, Hopkins, and a few battles with Mataya and Strickland when they were in town.

But, like you said -- you had a great time playing with him. Excellent pool players always did.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

I’ve seen plenty of video of the 01 derby on diamonds
No one throwing their hands up or announcers saying boy that banked wrong

Guess you weren’t sitting there watching balls that got rifled into the corner pockets, occasionally hit the flat-ish bottom of the pocket and fly right back out of the pocket onto or off the table and it being a foul.
Good to know.

 

[KUKABUKA]

That busted laminate picture has been recirculating since 2020 or whenever it was first taken. I think the table was probably dropped on its side. I never saw another picture with that issue.

The construction what’s the issue? It has a lot of plywood dividers to distribute the loading. Looks decent to me for a small table.

The plywood rails I suppose the issue is staple retention over many recoverings?

When I played on them in August 22 there were some tables that had the cracked rail top.

Here is my "review" https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/csi-dumps-diamond-for-predator-tables.544356/post-7339102

A couple of years on, and after having seen more of the internals of the table, they seem cheaply made with a good bit of lipstick (and a lot of cat decals) ...which goes for most predator products I will say

 

[Texas Carom Club]

Guess you weren’t sitting there watching balls that got rifled into the corner pockets, occasionally hit the flat-ish bottom of the pocket and fly right back out of the pocket onto or off the table and it being a foul.
Good to know.

damn guess you never knew this but, psst
balls coming back up on table after being slammed in isnt a diamond table only thing
its kind of a physics thing

 

[garczar]

Guess you weren’t sitting there watching balls that got rifled into the corner pockets, occasionally hit the flat-ish bottom of the pocket and fly right back out of the pocket onto or off the table and it being a foul.
Good to know.

NEVER seen that happen one time on a Diamond table. Have seen it on a poorly set-up Rasson and a few shit barboxes. IF it happened on a Diamond it had to be poor set-up related.

 

[Danimal]

Well, I am far from an "expert" pool player, nor am I a pool table expert for that matter. However, I've played on a lot of tables, in a lot of venues, over the course of forty years. I do know a thing or three about "construction" in general, from my professional life, friends, experience, etc. That said, my opinion may count for nothing at all. However, I had a GC (III, I think) growing up. We had the table for over 10 years. Not pool room use, but a lot. Only one in the neighborhood, LOL. That, at the time, was the best table on the market. Now, when I started playing a lot, all around the tri-state area, going to famous and shady pool rooms, LOL, and throughout my lifetime, I've got to see a lot of tables and played on a lot as well. I've also seen a lot of tables unassembled, taken apart, etc., and looked at their construction, how they are made, etc.

That said, in general, the early GC's -- those tables were tanks. Ver solid, built extremely well, quality materials and design, from what I could tell and in my amatuer opinion. They were the commonplace -- and the gold standard -- in most pool rooms I went to in the 80's and 90's. I felt they played true. I am not that high-level player where I can pick apart and critique the intricacies or nuances of the table. When Diamond started getting popular, I saw a lot of their tables, and I knew a guy who was opening a pool room in NJ (about 25 plus years ago). He decided to go with Diamond (a few different models, I don't remember which ones). I saw the tables when they arrived, watched them assembled. They looked like good tables, built well, good material, solid -- but they did not seem to be on the same construction level as the comparative GC. I believe all the Diamond models he picked were less expensive. I don't remember what he told the prices were. But I remember back then, when a high-end pool room opened up in Englewood, NJ, and Jersey Mel opened his pool room in South Jersey, and another high-end pool room opened out in Western NJ (I forgot where) they all went with Brunswick.

Now, I've played on a lot of Diamonds over the past twenty, maybe 25 years or so. Don't get me wrong, their top of the line table(s) are good tables. Quality. Play well. I don't know if they measure of to today's GC. I have no idea. This Predator table here, I never played on it, new saw it. But from the pictures, the construction does not seem up to GC level. Thanks.

Which room are you referring to that was in Englewood, NJ?

 

[PoolPlayerNNJ]

Which room are you referring to that was in Englewood, NJ?

I think it was called the Billiard Club, or something like that. It was on Route 4 East across the highway from what is today the Crowne Plaza. It was an indoor tennis club and two local guys decided to open a monster pool room. It was a top place then back in the late 80's and 90's. Back when it was open there was a TGI Friday's or Bennigan's across the highway. They actually had a few tournaments there and some big names showed up.

 

[iusedtoberich]

When I played on them in August 22 there were some tables that had the cracked rail top.

Here is my "review" https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/csi-dumps-diamond-for-predator-tables.544356/post-7339102

A couple of years on, and after having seen more of the internals of the table, they seem cheaply made with a good bit of lipstick (and a lot of cat decals) ...which goes for most predator products I will say

Thank you for your recent review. I actually had read it when you wrote it (as I had a "like" on it), and just re-read it now.

 

[muskyed]

It would be really interesting if Tyler actually said the Predator table played more right than a Diamond. I say that as I'm pretty sure he is sponsored by Diamond, at least on his Facebook page he says that he is. Not only that, they give lessons at his house on a Diamond table.
Did anyone notice that Tyler was shooting with a wood shaft at the Louisiana shoot?

 

[briankenobi]

It would be really interesting if Tyler actually said the Predator table played more right than a Diamond. I say that as I'm pretty sure he is sponsored by Diamond, at least on his Facebook page he says that he is. Not only that, they give lessons at his house on a Diamond table.
Did anyone notice that Tyler was shooting with a wood shaft at the Louisiana shoot?

I don't think he changed his profile because the only player sponsored by Diamond is Fedor. I am good friends with someone high up at Diamond and he informed me of that.

 

[trob]

Yes, that's all I could. They were closing up. The tables were in a booth, not out in the open.

I wish I could have played more. But to figure out how a table plays, that was enough time IMO.

In the same venue, I played on the Diamond bar boxes maybe 4 hours. I had a match in the amateur open tournament, then a gambling set, then after the tournament when some tables were open, I hit balls with a buddy for a bit. Those 3 different Diamond tables I played on all played like pin ball machines, as I expected.

The whole pinball machine makes no sense at all and the more you say it the sillier you sound lol honestly the diamonds there do play different then what people are most likely used to at home. Brand new cloth and balls make them play like ice. Everything wants to see and slide around.
But hey if you want to go spend $500 more for a table that is made of plywood and start falling a part under it’s own weight in 10 years it’s your money lol

 

[Thresh]

I've played in the 7ft tables regularly near my house.

The flat back/top of the pockets (no bump in the rail) is nice. I hope all MFGs adopt it.

That concludes anything good about the table unfortunately.

If I Diamond table nailed a Valley, the unwanted offspring no one asked for would be the predator table.

Corner pockets are buckets like a Valley table. Side pockets are much worse. Anyone notice if you touch the side pocket point the ball will not go in at all? Anyone notice if you hit the nipple the ball almost always leaves at a 45 degree angel for some reason?

Zero features on the rail? Pure black rails, no wood grain look? Not pleasing to the eye in my opinion but also doesn't allow you to target a feature on the rail for kicks and banks.

Ball return system is just stupid. Rotating metal X? Who has ever had a window motor go out in a car? That's exactly what's going to happen in time. It will fail.

Why are the coins/start button on the opposite side of the rack/ball return? Honestly, if you are going to design a table from the ground up shouldn't you put quarters in, hit the button and without moving that balls gather right there?

Even on free mode it's a constant pain in the ass to tell people to tap the button to drop the balls. This opposite ends has always made zero sense.

Ball return real estate. I can fit my overhead luggage in the freaking ball return. ALL THAT USELESS SPACE. No ball holder to set balls aside you aren't using? No holder to separate balls in 1 pocket? No coin and start button? What a complete waist of space.

If your chalk or something falls into a pocket, how do you get it out or unblock the return system? I have no clue, can't wait for it to happen.

The price? Ridiculous.

You actually made a table that your own set of balls (cue ball) will not return properly on the table. If I made a table I'd make sure my $450 set of balls would work properly, that's just embarrassing.

Everything besides the flat back of the pockets is completely wrong.


That's my honest review, sorry.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

NEVER seen that happen one time on a Diamond table. Have seen it on a poorly set-up Rasson and a few shit barboxes. IF it happened on a Diamond it had to be poor set-up related.

So you didn’t see it so it never happened?
Get a grip.
It happened enough at the Derby the one year, whichever diamond dude that standing at the tournament desk was finishing people’s sentences.
”Hey, I just played a match and when I shot a ball in the corner...”
”The ball bounced out of the pocket?”
”Yeah. That’s exactly what happened”

He was not happy at all.
Following year that problem was fixed.

 

[Poolmanis]

I've played in the 7ft tables regularly near my house.

The flat back/top of the pockets (no bump in the rail) is nice. I hope all MFGs adopt it.

That concludes anything good about the table unfortunately.

If I Diamond table nailed a Valley, the unwanted offspring no one asked for would be the predator table.

Corner pockets are buckets like a Valley table. Side pockets are much worse. Anyone notice if you touch the side pocket point the ball will not go in at all? Anyone notice if you hit the nipple the ball almost always leaves at a 45 degree angel for some reason?

Zero features on the rail? Pure black rails, no wood grain look? Not pleasing to the eye in my opinion but also doesn't allow you to target a feature on the rail for kicks and banks.

Ball return system is just stupid. Rotating metal X? Who has ever had a window motor go out in a car? That's exactly what's going to happen in time. It will fail.

Why are the coins/start button on the opposite side of the rack/ball return? Honestly, if you are going to design a table from the ground up shouldn't you put quarters in, hit the button and without moving that balls gather right there?

Even on free mode it's a constant pain in the ass to tell people to tap the button to drop the balls. This opposite ends has always made zero sense.

Ball return real estate. I can fit my overhead luggage in the freaking ball return. ALL THAT USELESS SPACE. No ball holder to set balls aside you aren't using? No holder to separate balls in 1 pocket? No coin and start button? What a complete waist of space.

If your chalk or something falls into a pocket, how do you get it out or unblock the return system? I have no clue, can't wait for it to happen.

The price? Ridiculous.

You actually made a table that your own set of balls (cue ball) will not return properly on the table. If I made a table I'd make sure my $450 set of balls would work properly, that's just embarrassing.

Everything besides the flat back of the pockets is completely wrong.


That's my honest review, sorry.

I have not played Predator tables, but this is close to what i heard from players who play with them.

 

[garczar]

So you didn’t see it so it never happened?
Get a grip.
It happened enough at the Derby the one year, whichever diamond dude that standing at the tournament desk was finishing people’s sentences.
”Hey, I just played a match and when I shot a ball in the corner...”
”The ball bounced out of the pocket?”
”Yeah. That’s exactly what happened”

He was not happy at all.
Following year that problem was fixed.

Again, its set-up related. Its not the design. I've played a TON of pool on Pro's and ProAm's and have never seen one ball hop out like this. Not one. If table was set-up poorly and pockets were too low this might happen but its not the design's fault. Go grip yourself pal.

 

[iusedtoberich]

The whole pinball machine makes no sense at all and the more you say it the sillier you sound lol honestly the diamonds there do play different then what people are most likely used to at home. Brand new cloth and balls make them play like ice. Everything wants to see and slide around.
But hey if you want to go spend $500 more for a table that is made of plywood and start falling a part under it’s own weight in 10 years it’s your money lol

No, I play on Diamonds regularly now. And I also travel to several states on the East Coast and play on them. They are almost all pin ball machines, even when the cloth is a year old. It's often worse when the cloth is old, because the difference between the bed speed and the rail speed becomes even greater. Occasionally I will find one that does seem to play really nice. But that is like 2% of them.

"The Diamonds there": (at the expo, your sentence). The Predator tables and Brunswick GC Coin table with brand new cloth "10 feet away from the Diamonds at the Expo" did not play like pin ball machines. They played like a table should play.

It just blows my mind everyone does not see this. And when you have some very experienced players that speak up about it these days, we are made to be the outcasts. Instead of everyone screaming at Diamond so they will fix this 30 year old issue.

 

[iusedtoberich]

✂️ Dr Dave Clip

5 seconds · Clipped by Nick P · Original video "BRIDGE LENGTH Effects and Considerations" by DrDaveBilliards

youtube.com

I guess Dr Dave is delusional also. [sarcasm]. 5 second clip about Diamond rails from his bridge length video released yesterday.

 

[Colonel]

I've played in the 7ft tables regularly near my house.

The flat back/top of the pockets (no bump in the rail) is nice. I hope all MFGs adopt it.

That concludes anything good about the table unfortunately.

If I Diamond table nailed a Valley, the unwanted offspring no one asked for would be the predator table.

Corner pockets are buckets like a Valley table. Side pockets are much worse. Anyone notice if you touch the side pocket point the ball will not go in at all? Anyone notice if you hit the nipple the ball almost always leaves at a 45 degree angel for some reason?

Zero features on the rail? Pure black rails, no wood grain look? Not pleasing to the eye in my opinion but also doesn't allow you to target a feature on the rail for kicks and banks.

Ball return system is just stupid. Rotating metal X? Who has ever had a window motor go out in a car? That's exactly what's going to happen in time. It will fail.

Why are the coins/start button on the opposite side of the rack/ball return? Honestly, if you are going to design a table from the ground up shouldn't you put quarters in, hit the button and without moving that balls gather right there?

Even on free mode it's a constant pain in the ass to tell people to tap the button to drop the balls. This opposite ends has always made zero sense.

Ball return real estate. I can fit my overhead luggage in the freaking ball return. ALL THAT USELESS SPACE. No ball holder to set balls aside you aren't using? No holder to separate balls in 1 pocket? No coin and start button? What a complete waist of space.

If your chalk or something falls into a pocket, how do you get it out or unblock the return system? I have no clue, can't wait for it to happen.

The price? Ridiculous.

You actually made a table that your own set of balls (cue ball) will not return properly on the table. If I made a table I'd make sure my $450 set of balls would work properly, that's just embarrassing.

Everything besides the flat back of the pockets is completely wrong.


That's my honest review, sorry.

7’ aren’t really pool tables, just like ping pong isn’t tennis and putt putt isn’t golf.
That’s my honest review, sorry not sorry

 

[SeniorTom]

I wonder how much you pay for the Predator name alone, as opposed to the actual quality of the table? My experience with Predator equipment is that it is somewhat cheaply made.