Another Euro Phenom...........
- Thread starter garczar
- Start date
i agree, but then again the pinoys and taiwanese don't play straight pool (with some exceptions). but it sure helps to include it, imo.
US NYC, Florida and Oregon
Europe NL, Spain and Denmark, with extensive visits to pool rooms in Germany, Sweden, Norway and friends who have described the same culture in Italy, Portugal, Greece, and France (most people who play where I've live and describe there home countries as the same or very similar pool cultures)
Wanted to add that the US system does have some advantages, there are a lot more players in the US system with larger leagues/ (our ONLY team based league, with a regional area of 1.5m people, only has around 30 teams of 6-7 players, split across 5 pool halls), US leagues cater and allow low level players to have a good time and socialize and not make it a dedicated hobby, we dont really have many people like apa 1-3s, those people get scared off rather quickly or improve. This allows the pool halls to take care of the regulars and have plenty of tables for the general public and isnt as good for the equipment manufacturers.
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Easy there hoss.
Tadaimarlon
Well-known member
Can vouch for Spain, it's exactly as you described it
Same in Norway. In the room where I practice twice a week I have access to 4-5 players who are 700+ Fargo who gladly play matches with us for free, they willingly share knowledge about technique, shot-selection etc.
The regional/national tournaments are no handicap, low entryfee and low prizemoney, still we travel to just compete.
Regular weekly events have handicap, and some of the best players join those tournaments too.
The room is non-alcohol and non-smoking, and billiard in Norway is part of The Norwegian Olympic and Paralympic Committee and Confederation of Sports (NIF), which is an umbrella organisation which organises all national sports federations in Norway.
The regional/national tournaments are no handicap, low entryfee and low prizemoney, still we travel to just compete.
Regular weekly events have handicap, and some of the best players join those tournaments too.
The room is non-alcohol and non-smoking, and billiard in Norway is part of The Norwegian Olympic and Paralympic Committee and Confederation of Sports (NIF), which is an umbrella organisation which organises all national sports federations in Norway.
I don't see evidence table size is an issue. We can compare Norway, population 5.4 million, to similar sized populations in the US.
Norway has 11 people rated 700 or higher
Two states in the US where the vast majority of play is on 7-foot tables and the populations are similar to Norway are MN and WI
MN has 12 players over 700, and WI has 9 players over 700. These are all similar.
NC, where 9-foot tables dominate, has 10.6 million people, nearly twice what Norway, Minnesota, or Wisconsin has, and yet NC has 11 players over 700, not nearly twice as many as the others.
Issues in the US, imo
--lack of organization
--lack of respect for anything new that resembles organization
--travel is difficult/expensive
Yeh would be fun to watch. But I reckon one of the reasons they would get in stroke so easily at winner breaks is that they already do so at alternate breaks (where you are playing a little bit cold every other rack).
There are a lot of pool players that would have to quit if the bar boxes went away. How many small towns have pool halls they all have multiple bars. All the BCA, APA events are on bar boxes. You can learn good fundamentals, good patterns, perfect your stroke just like you can on a big bad nine footer. It doesn’t take most people long to adjust to the change. The way people talk is they never miss on a 7ft table, if that’s the case they should be matching up with SVB who says his second favorite game is eight ball on a bar box. His claim is nine ball is to simple, you just have to shoot the low number ball. People should stop bashing bar boxes, that’s my opinion and I am sticking to it.
I think looking at total population skews the numbers, you need to look at total pool players, European pool communities are significantly smaller than there us counterparts, with larger communities you have more opportunities to find players who have the ability to become higher ranked fargo.
Also Fargo isn't really used over here, our leagues don't report, you only get a Fargo if you play in the national competitions, the euro tour, or pro events.
Locally we have the knbb, which divides players into three general groups of skill levels, the lowest is third class and in my 14.1 league those guys have had high runs in the 15-19 balls with it being their first season playing straight pool, they'd all be around apa 5s. First class would be everything from Fargo 550 to 800 and they play each other even, high runs are from 40-200.
Cuescore is supposedly developing an elo rating and it will be interesting to see what scores people have on there as that is mainly what is used here, it is where the leagues, local, regional and national tournaments are organized and run with.
Most people don't even know what Fargo is when I've asked about it.
Strongly agree about the lack of organization, that and the organizations that do exist are run as for profit businesses and not for the benefit of the players. The BCA is the closest thing and that is mainly run by equipment manufacturers who have a different interest than players, they want as many players as possible buying stuff, regardless if that is what is best for the development of pool players.
Travel distances and cost to play in euro tour events are comparable with us, so that isn't a likely issue either. Mainly i think it's the profit motivation, our regional are not profitable for anyone invovled and just done for the good of the sport, in the us, pool is a business and people want to make money from it.
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Minnesota and Norway are pretty similar beyond just the population. Minneapolis and Oslo kinda similar. Smaller cities and lots of rural area.
You are from Netherlands, right? That's much denser population, and you can get from one side to the other in no time. Norway and Minnesota are different from that, and once again similar. There are small regional competitions all over Norway in different regions that are in FargoRate --plenty of players who never travel to Oslo.
Sweden, next to Norway, has the Swedish Pool Tour (SPT). The country is divided into regions, and there are regular competitions within each region that are all based on Fargo Ratings.
Elite - open to everyone
Class 1 - 650 and under
Class 2 - 550 & under
Class 3 - 450 & under
You can find the 2024 events here:
Im from the us, but live in netherlands. Just the area is smaller but basically the regional and national events would be translate to state and county/city level tournaments in the us and us national tournaments would be comparable to euro tour. The us just doesn't have organization at any level as you pointed out, so none of that exists because it's not in the financial interest of anyone. Our leagues dues in the us go to making profit for LO and parent organizations, plus prize funds for leagues, so that its more marketable, so that more people join, so the people who own the structure make more money.
Pretty cool they use Fargo there tho, didn't know that. Will have to take a vacation at some point.
League play and Fargo rating stuff has F****d up Pro pool in this country and the World IMPO.
We really have Non-Pro players making up rules and formats.
Are all FargoRates created equal? If a 700 who exclusively plays on a bar box matched up against a 700 who plays exclusively on a nine foot table, would the match be equitable on a both tables sizes or would the nine foot player be a 700 on a nine footer and the bar box player play at a 650-ish level on a nine footer and vice versa?
They play 15 ball rotation, among other games at least that’s what I saw in the Fils.
Right now Euros, lead in skill set game dominance.
Absolutely helps!
Haha. We can't ask this question anymore. The stock answer is it's all about "familiarity."
I do think that's a reasonable answer when it comes to Fargo Ratings, especially in areas where there's a lot of overlapping coupling with players that play on both tables. I'm a little more skeptical about it in areas where there's only a handful or just a single player within a group that plays on both big and bar tables. If that player performs really well on the big table, I think he can help raise the bar table only players quite significantly. I know there are arguments against that, but it's just sort of a trend I'm seeing and trying to figure out in my state.
Generally speaking, bar tables may be a wash when it comes to their effect on professional pool here in the U.S. I think they give us a very healthy amateur base. The trouble is -- it's next to impossible to become world class if you spend your formative years playing just on the bar table. So it creates a huge pool of good to great amateur players, who by the time they are 20 -- realize they aren't catching up to Josh Filler. Eliminate the bar table and our participation rates crash. We really just need a healthier pool room atmosphere, where good young players can be steered over to the 9 foot tables earlier on. I think this will only happen if Billiard Clubs can take the mantle from Pool Halls.
Agreed. Personally, I matched up in a 9B tournament played on nine foot tables with a player who plays bar box exclusively that has a higher FargoRate than I by almost 50 points. I play exclusively on nine foot tables. I beat him easily. He had quite a bit of difficulty with his cue ball control and finding the correct angle to come into the line of shape. I got the feeling he wasn't comfortable moving his cue ball over long distances. Just thought I'd ask.
From the highlighted section of your post, do you believe the angles on 7' tables as opposed to 9' tables are different?
BTW, does Diamond use the same rubber on 7' and 9' tables?
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To be honest, I'm not 100% sure. All I know is he was having difficulty finding the line. We discussed it after the match.
Yes. Diamond uses Artemis No. 66 Pool Cushions (K55 profile) on their 9' tables and their Diamond Black Cushions (K55 profile) on their 7' and 8' tables.