Frustrated with my own slow play in 8 ball
- Thread starter newcuer
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Going through ALL possible options, means you are considering several choices that you will never make. This is a waste of time and energy.
I think one of things I struggle with is when the balls are pretty clustered on a 7 ft table. And I am pondering what to do at the table. Attempt a run out? Play safe? Leave a starter ball? Block a pocket? etc. etc. But I guess I am digressing into another topic.
If it's entirely going through all the options, that's still better left at the practice table. What level do you play at?
I play regularly with a guy who plays very slooooow . 45 sec minimum between shots . BIH with 3 on the table , he will study the table for an eternity then not get out anyway . I timed him once racking 8 ball...45 sec . He has a form of autism but he works and drives and takes care of himself . I tried to show him the basics ,stance stroke even chalking and get away from the table and shut up when another player is up.
I have tried to work with him for a year now but have given up . I know for myself I play better when I play at a certain pace . The only time I shoot slow is playing 1 pocket .
I have tried to work with him for a year now but have given up . I know for myself I play better when I play at a certain pace . The only time I shoot slow is playing 1 pocket .
Rack up the balls like 9 ball. 8 in the middle, 4 stripes, 4 solids. Break and run out with ball in hand like 8 ball ghost. Take as much time as you need per shot but try to select the best one or right one for YOUR game each time. Or play it like a regular game where you play safety too. Take all the time you want.
When this is too easy go back to full rack and repeat. Over and over until the patterns reveal themselves faster and easier. You will see the right shot sooner over time. Keep score to add pressure. Hope this helps.
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Do you play outside of league? If you don't play a lot, perhaps some reasonable action would help formulate some winning strategies.
OK, I have an unpopular opinion. Play the speed that you shoot at when you play your best. If it is slow, let it be slow. I know there is a lot of hate for slower players but I don't care. As impatient as they are with slow players, I am equally impatient for players who hate on other players. I'm going to play my best game, if someone has a problem with it then that's what it is: Their problem. I'm not going to get bullied into playing poorly and letting other people win just because they threaten to roll their eyes at me.
People who hate on slow players think they are justified in their behavior because others just 'shouldn't play so slow'. It's one thing if they get frustrated in their own head. But if they start making nasty comments then they are out of line. Bad behavior is bad behavior, you don't get to excuse it because you were irritated.
As to increasing speed, it really depends on why you feel the need to spend time.
It could be pattern recognition. This is the assumption we are leaning towards. For this it might take practice and experience.
Some of it might be pressure. I know that I was always a really nervous player and when I was in matches my adrenaline would be pumping and I'd be horrified of making mistakes. This lead to me taking longer not just reading patterns but getting off of balls and really making sure I was feeling it before I pulled the trigger. This had nothing to do with pattern recognition and everything to do with anxiety. It took experience in competition and some mental game training before I really started feeling confident to trust myself to perform.
It could even be fundamentals. Some players can get down on the ball and feel lined up and trust that their stroke is going to go where they are looking. Others need to get off the ball, get back on it, and adjust until they feel like the shot is right. Weak fundamentals can not only lead to more time on the shot, it can lead to more time spent studying patterns trying to find a route that you believe you can execute without testing your stroke.
So it really depends on where you spend the time and why. What are your thoughts on this?
I play very fast so almost everyone plays slow to me.
I have noticed the most common cause of slow play is being fixated on a plan and then needing to change to a different plan. Let's say you are going to pocket the 1 in the corner the 2 in the same corner and then play the 3 down the rail. You make the 1 but don't have good position to continue with the original plan. Now you look at what you have and try it anyways. Of course the plan further unravels. Now you are looking at forming a new plan but can't clear your head of what has transpired. You can't think clearly about the present when stuck in the past.
Some others play slow because they just are slower at processing information.
And some play slow because they feel they have a right to.
Tournaments Directors have a right to ban slow players or implement penalties for slow play. If this was actually implemented slow play could be sped up enough to be acceptable.
I have noticed the most common cause of slow play is being fixated on a plan and then needing to change to a different plan. Let's say you are going to pocket the 1 in the corner the 2 in the same corner and then play the 3 down the rail. You make the 1 but don't have good position to continue with the original plan. Now you look at what you have and try it anyways. Of course the plan further unravels. Now you are looking at forming a new plan but can't clear your head of what has transpired. You can't think clearly about the present when stuck in the past.
Some others play slow because they just are slower at processing information.
And some play slow because they feel they have a right to.
Tournaments Directors have a right to ban slow players or implement penalties for slow play. If this was actually implemented slow play could be sped up enough to be acceptable.
Try to eliminate some of the time you spend between shots, planning your next shot. Just as a golf reference, take two clubs on your way to the next shot. In other words, prepare for your next shot while you're sitting, etc. Scope the table, develop a pattern before you get there, etc. Eliminate as much time in between shots as possible through preparation/preplanning. If that doesn't work...shoot faster.
There are many parts of a shot that contribute to the overall pace of play. See if you can quicken one or two of them, even if you don't quicken some others.
For example, a portion of the time is spent walking to the table from the chair, and then walking around the table to examine the shots from different angles, when necessary. Do all the walking FAST! Besides speeding up play, I think it sends a message to your opponent that you are there to win. Especially the walk from the chair to the table after a miss.
The other advantage to go after this one first, is it needs no improvement in thinking speed for planning the run. Literally, you just walk much faster.
For example, a portion of the time is spent walking to the table from the chair, and then walking around the table to examine the shots from different angles, when necessary. Do all the walking FAST! Besides speeding up play, I think it sends a message to your opponent that you are there to win. Especially the walk from the chair to the table after a miss.
The other advantage to go after this one first, is it needs no improvement in thinking speed for planning the run. Literally, you just walk much faster.
dquarasr
Registered
Practice with a shot clock. I downloaded a friendly app to my phone (it's called "Pool Shot Clock"; has a green icon). You can set the timer to whatever you want, and a reminder at an interval (like 30 seconds, beep at 10 seconds, countdown beep 5-4-3-2-1).
I was counseled that I play slowly. It was true. Using the shot clock had two benefits: 1) it got me out of the possibility that I will be called for a sportsmanship foul (in an APA tournament, or even a regular session match, you can be warned once, then another infraction can be called a foul with BIH to opponent). 2) when I started shooting more quickly, I actually shot better - a lot better. I first tried shot execution with zero warm up strokes. Get down, shoot. This increased my speed and accuracy. But I understand your problem isn't when already down; it's deciding what shot to take.
Shot decision pace can be improved with practice. Try practicing with a shot clock.
I was counseled that I play slowly. It was true. Using the shot clock had two benefits: 1) it got me out of the possibility that I will be called for a sportsmanship foul (in an APA tournament, or even a regular session match, you can be warned once, then another infraction can be called a foul with BIH to opponent). 2) when I started shooting more quickly, I actually shot better - a lot better. I first tried shot execution with zero warm up strokes. Get down, shoot. This increased my speed and accuracy. But I understand your problem isn't when already down; it's deciding what shot to take.
Shot decision pace can be improved with practice. Try practicing with a shot clock.
Atorontopoolplayer
Active member
I hope you find a way to speed up, practicing with a shot clock seems like a good idea.
I do not really agree with tinman above really about playing as slow as you need to in order to play your best as excessively slow play ruins the game for your opponent, ruins the tournament often if you are advancing for everyone else in it, or league night for you and your team.
If you're a professional, playing for your livelihood ok that's a different story and many play very slow (they really need shot clocks on any streamed match or it's unwatchable) but in regular leagues/ amateur tournaments it's rude/ disrespectful of everyone else's time IMO to take a very long time on each shot.
I do not really agree with tinman above really about playing as slow as you need to in order to play your best as excessively slow play ruins the game for your opponent, ruins the tournament often if you are advancing for everyone else in it, or league night for you and your team.
If you're a professional, playing for your livelihood ok that's a different story and many play very slow (they really need shot clocks on any streamed match or it's unwatchable) but in regular leagues/ amateur tournaments it's rude/ disrespectful of everyone else's time IMO to take a very long time on each shot.
I am a *very* fast player, both in taking individual shots, and moving shot-to-shot. I doubt it will help your current ability--in fact, it will likely hurt your game--but, you can try a couple of things:
1) Speed up your target acquisition. Once you *know* where you want the cue ball to hit the object ball, get down to take the shot. Just break the rack, and run everything, mostly going for the first, simple/easiest shot that you see. *Watch* the ball drop, or at least hit the cushion near where you were aiming to pot, then move to the next shot that you see. Use simple positioning--like when there are 2-3 balls good for a corner, you might have a sort of hit w/ short draw-->move-->hit w/ short draw on the next (repeat as necessary).
2) Speed up your shot routine. Get down, take relatively quick pre-strike 'waggles', then pull back and hit (although, I do think a simple pause is better, over a back/forward motion without pause). You can also practice "one-stroking", where you either get down, and then pull-back and shoot, or even get down with your arm already back, and only forward stroke. Note: I don't suggest this for final incorporation into your process, only to see how well you can adapt to it--a bit more useful as a way to test your limit, as far as finding how quick is too quick.
Caveats: This should have you hitting "easy" shots faster, but the trick is to recognize when a shot really needs fuller attention and give it the respect it deserves! It's also is harder to add speed but shoot tight positions--and can make stringing a few ball quicker, but also increases the chances of getting out of shape.
I can comment more, but this post is already too long!
With all due respect (and I mean that as sincerely as possible...I respect everything you post here and look forward to seeing your posts) in a typical APA night, if you are "that guy", you will not be viewed well. And I'll tell you why. We're trying to get 5 matches done in hopefully 4 hours. And the players playing APA aren't nearly as good as you are, it takes quite a while for some matches, especially beginners.
I say all this as one who is probably a bit slower than the average in our room. I totally get where the OP is coming from. AND it's refreshing to see that he is aware of it and is concerned at some level.
The OP is deliberate, and that's how he feels comfortable shooting. I TOTALLY get it. Hopefully he can find a way to still manage his time at the table in a fashion that is comfortable to him, but perhaps a bit quicker than he has been till now. Rushing yourself won't help, you're right. But making 8-12 other people wait on a work night is a whole other type of pressure, too...and he won't be popular if his matches drag on too much. I know, it shouldn't be a popularity contest, and everyone should play in the manner they play best at, but there are some practical factors to account for, as well.
I do wish the OP well, as I have said a few times, I understand the conundrum quite well. I can be "methodical" as well.
And it's both interesting and a good thing that he recognized it in an opponent, and contrasted that to his own playing style. So he's well aware of how it impacts others. Good luck, newcuer! Rooting for ya!
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
Me too.
OP you said you are an APA 6. By APA rules you should be shooting within 45sec. I think the rules are most shots should be closer to 20sec.
There is one 650 I know that plays slow as all hell. Everyone knows it. He has sped up a bit as of late as the tournament director on Fridays has addressed this with him. It really hasn’t hurt his game. Speed up slowly over time if you need to.
And remember. In higher level APA matches the opposing team can and will put slow players on a time clock. If I saw a player, especially a higher level player, playing super slow I would ask the LO to inform them. And if that didn’t work would request a time clock.
Once the match gets to a certain time it turns to sudden death and some teams will try to poke around to get to sudden death as a strategy.
So my only advice is to remember-you have to shoot within 45seconds whether you like it or not. And to start from there.
This is an unpopular opinion because it justifies rude behavior.