Thanks, that's all I wanted to know. You can all go back to bickering now.
Bob Danielson
www.bdcuesandcomix.com
Bob Danielson
www.bdcuesandcomix.com
Yet Another CTE Review
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
- Status
BD, Ill try to answer your question. CTE/ProOne is an aiming system which contemplates center vertical axis cueball hits. Therefore draw and follow shots are fine. English, is generally applied using backhand english, after pivoting to center cueball. Hope this helps.
MANY people "GET IT" and that is becoming more and more apparent by the day as people from all walks of life, from all skill levels, from countries that we've never been to, continue to shout down the NAYSAYERS.
It was my hope that maybe, Patrick would give CTE/Pro One a fair shot but is becoming more and more obvious that I was wrong about that as well as the hope that Patrick would explain why so many people have improved their games using CTE/Pro One.
In other words, the amount of pivot determines the amount of english. While being calculable mathematically it will change with each cue and length of bridge for each shot therefore is something that is learned by feel and experience. So, some peoples refusal to call this an exact aiming system seems well founded.
Bob Danielson
www.bdcuesandcomix.com
Bob Danielson
www.bdcuesandcomix.com
Stop it Mike. You're picking on Patrick and that's just plain wrong.
Patrick is having trouble playing well with CTE/Pro One. He's not the first one to NOT "get it". Last night I wasted my time trying to help Shankster. I didn't realize I had wasted my time until I got up this morning and saw his posts.
It seems apparent at least to me, that Patrick is trying to stick his finger in the dike to prevent the flood of new CTE/Pro One users that are "GETTING IT".
If Patrick were able to play well using CTE/Pro One it would make him and all of the NAYSAYERS look foolish, including all of the big names. I'm afraid that I pegged Patrick wrong. I thought he would get to the bottom of CTE/Pro One by playing well with it, then share with us how he was able to do it. My bad........ Too many people whom I don't know have reported success upon success using CTE/Pro One which can be purchased by going to clicking here.
Shankster doesn't want to learn how to make the shots using CTE/Pro One. Unfortunately, he simply wants to have his day in the sun and so be it. There's not a whole lot wrong with that unless it is hurting someone in the process.
I just don't want to spend my time trying to help people learn how to effectively use CTE/Pro One when that isn't their goal.
For those struggling to get CTE/Pro On, I'll say the same things in this post that I have said in others. View the video, take one shot at a time, and do the things that Stan says in the video. Don't go on to other shots until you "get it" at least on that one shot. The first shot that you should practice on is the straight in shot in the side pocket with the cue ball about 24" away from the object ball. Practice it over and over until you can see the coordinates. CTE/Pro One is a visual system. It is what you see with your eyes. Don't go on to other shots until you can make the straight in shot over and over using AND HOLDING THOSE COORDINATES in your mind's eye, while moving into shooting position. Utilize the MANUAL/MECHANICAL pivot of CTE/Pro One and do not go on to Pro One until you can master all of the shots in the video. All of this is just my opinion and nothing more. That's the Gospel from Saint JoeyA.
(Sorry Fred, the Beard)Cte isn't entirely systematic...you are so right! Another PJ moment in generalized comments. It was never touted by Stan as being a contact point system. He says it is a highly visual method to pocket balls. I've never backed up my opinions with the systematic approach other than the pre shot alignment. Your alignment shows you the aiming line. Of course you knew that because you skimmed through the dvd.
I'll take that as a reply that you don't have the answer about how it works...you've already proven it doesn't. It doesn't fit into the file cabinet, so it shouldn't be there. It can't be totally explained...let's dismiss the possibility that it teaches a player to learn to line up correctly for a shot. Not a contact point. What a radical concept.
How many years does a person have to play at a mediocre level before they start searching for an alternative method to improve their shot making? The Cte discussion is a prime example of why there is a small following for serious pool instead of it growing like many other activities/sports. It is stuck in the past and is business as usual. Negativity and skepticism, about new ideas, shoot holes in any concepts that show the least bit of merit.
Miserable, disgruntled old men sit around and feel that if they can't do it, it must not work. They've achieved a certain level of proficiency after years by rote, so that's the answer. Solid geometry and contact points, dadgummit!. Those 20 year old kids that run racks are just naturals. They couldn't know what we know about the game! So we need to keep a handle on the less intelligent masses, lest they introduce heretical opinions that could topple the same old, same old. It's here, it's now. It's been gaining momentum over the years and there are questions that beg to be answered. You can ride with it or get run over. It's everyone's choice. Preconceived notions mean nothing. They stagnate pool. Let fresh air in and let new ideas or rediscovered facts emerge.
If you truly want to learn the system, you will. There is no credibility to your comments without learning the system and being able to use it proficiently. One viewing is an insult to people discussing it with you. Seeing is different than doing. I can watch Efren hit balls. Can I shoot like him the same day? Users of pivot systems don't need your viewpoint without your common experience with the methods. We had hoped you would genuinely be interested in moving our discussions forward with your possible input. Instead you disappoint. Weeks to months to learn a movement after years of arguing seems like a small effort on your, or anyone else's, part to shed light on the subject. We'll just have to do it without you. You've wasted our time long enough.
Go ahead and quote a line or two out of this post and take it out of context. This indicates that you only hear what you want to hear. I stopped giving Cte directions because your "interest" is a circle jerk to perpetuate more confusion with new users. The more confusion, or the appearance of confusion is your tactic when straight forward directions are given. It's too hard and doesn't make sense. You can't do it. Help, I've fallen and I can't get up! Two words...petty, miserable. I'm curious...take a look at your agenda and let me know how much more time is allotted for the dvd review. We, who are interested in the system and expanding research on it, want to know so we can get back to improving our games instead of being told we're blithering idiots. You can reply with one of your patented one liners like, "I would, but you probably won't understand".
Best,
Mike
PS I almost forgot. My dvd for manned flight instruction came and I've watched it once. I don't think it's really possible :wink:, but a friend said I could borrow his plane. Anybody want to go for a ride?
No, it doesn't. And, your question has been answered several times, at least once by me. This is an AIMING system, NOT a positioning system. It is for aiming only. Position play, you use whatever system or way that you want to. They are two totally different parts of the game.
Is this really that hard to do? ccb to reob with an A reference. where you place the cue is pretty obvious to me? but maybe im slightly retarded and have no clue what im talking about, but i can make all shots and only miss because of human error?
Is this really that hard to do? ccb to reob with an B reference. I am on both lines in these pictures and ready to drop down on the table to a half tip offset.I shoot right handed. I will show a picture like this for any shot shown on the dvd, just ask
sorry but i dont have a table at home or i would be pro by now :grin:
Last edited:
Champ, doesn't look like you're alligned with the CTEL and, yes, it looks like left cue ball edge goes to B. Under similar circumstances, however, Stan can make the left cue ball edge go to A or B. That is the problem. How far you shift off the CTEL determines which aiming point you find, and foreknowledge or "feel" determines that.
I don't see why all the CTER's are so paranoid. The fact that CTE is not exact does not mean that it might not be the best aiming system out there. Cheer up.
I don't see why all the CTER's are so paranoid. The fact that CTE is not exact does not mean that it might not be the best aiming system out there. Cheer up.
You do NOT shift off the CTEL line. Why do you keep insisting that you do when so many keep telling you not to?? So, that eliminates your "feel".
Try being a little more exact in your lining up. Quit throwing your "red herrings" out there that are designed soley to confuse others. There is no "feel" to it.
Huh? stan can what? i have no clue what your talking about shank? two ears and one mouth <<< do u know what this means shank? do you have a camera? take a pic like i did, so i can see what your looking at? ccb to reob with an A and then a B reference.
Last edited:
Thanks Randy for the lessons, my game is on another level. I practice cte along with fractional and have made some possible discoveries I can share with you. When I am playing it is full speed and there is no thinking about it until a critical shot arises. The hardest part is training through your old habits and missing while learning, until you start getting it, You tend to want to start shooting your old way because you know you can make it but if you fight through it, it comes.
This is a good point and what I'm talking about. His review should be from the standpoint of a novice with an informational background. Not a player/user's opinion. His visual/physical concerns should be taken into consideration and if he wants more credibility on the subject, he should put out more than a cursory effort to learn the system.
The system is a learned technique, achieved in no specific time frame by individual users, limited by their present ability and DESIRE. It is not a system that demonstrates contact point aiming, specifically, that can be seen in a diagram.
An honest, fair assessment will only come with a committed effort on the reviewer's part. I love to play baseball, have coached high school level players and been a hitting coach. I've tried softball and didn't care for it. That doesn't mean it's not a great thing for somebody else. If I played it more, I would probably be a better judge. But if I don't play it, who cares about my opinion?
Best,
Mike
The really sad part about all this "bickering" is that I just showed my daughter how to do, took me less than 2 minutes, and she got it right away. :wink:
right pivot,ccb to reob, A reference and where you will be bridged at a half tip off set.
right pivot,ccb to reob, B reference and where you will be bridged at a half tip off set.
right pivot, ccb to leob with a 1/8 overlap and where you will be bridged at a half tip off set.
I am sure im off a bit since im holding the camera in front of my eyes,also. Use the good half of your brains to try and understand this.
Last edited:
Proper eye positioning is critical for success in CTE/PRO ONE because of the strong VISUAL nature of the system.
If you can successfully do the following exercise then you will have a much better understanding of how to perceive the visuals in CTE/PRO ONE.
Place 2 balls at a zero angle about 2 feet apart, a CB and an OB. An old centennial striped ball with a matching size CB would be ideal. (Old centennial balls are marked at the quarters.)
Very Important! DO NOT DO THIS: Do not stand squarely behind the CTEL with the CB directly between your eyes. If you do this you will be in trouble and will not have any chance of obtaining correct visual perceptions for CTE/PRO ONE.
Considerations for ball address while at the table for this exercise:
Offset your body and eyes to the CB/OB straight-in alignment as described earlier. You MAY be presenting yourself at or close to a 45 degree angle and this can vary. Position yourself so you are slightly looking across the CB toward the OB. I repeat, your eyes are not squarely behind the CB. During the process of obtaining your visuals you will be using both eyes. There are 2 lines of sight, one from each eye. A player’s eyes can work separately and together in perceiving the necessary lines. *A player that is restricted to one line of sight can obtain the visuals, but must rely on overlap perception.
**My suggestion for this exercise is to use your left eye during ball address to aim the left edge of the CB at your OB aim point.
Now for the VISUAL exercise for the CB/OB at 2 feet apart on a zero angle.
CTEL and 1/8
1.Allow your eyes to begin perceiving these 2 lines. Left edge of CB to left 1/8 of OB and the top center of the CB to the right edge of the OB. Tweak your stance and your eyes until you can bring these 2 lines into perception. Your head will be motionless and your eyes can shift to see one line and then shift to perceive the other line when in a perfect visual offset. **The shift is with your eyes, not your head.
CTEL and A
2. Adjust your stance and head position so that your eyes can obtain these 2 lines: Left edge of CB to aim point A and the CTEL perception.**The CTEL perception could have been first. What matters most is that your eyes are positioned from an offset so that only an eye shift is needed to access both lines, the aim line and the sight line.
CTEL and B
3. Adjust your stance and your eyes so that you can accurately perceive these 2 lines: Left edge of CB to OB B and tweak your head position so you can perceive the CTEL **Again, it is okay to perceive the CTEL first and then dial in on the aim line. It is my experience that it does not matter which line comes first. What’s important is the fact that your eyes are in position to perceive both lines with only an eye shift. You can only see one line at a time.
The above exercise of how to obtain CTE/PRO ONE visuals takes a very conscious effort at first. I refer to this conscious process of obtaining visuals as” target shooting”. Once a player’s visuals skills are developed, target shooting is no longer necessary. A player will simply see an “overlap” or perhaps a “tube-like perception running from the CB to the OB”
CTE/PRO ONE is a very strong visual system and any player can learn to have consistent, objective, accurate and repeatable perceptions for ball pocketing.
Stan Shuffett
If you can successfully do the following exercise then you will have a much better understanding of how to perceive the visuals in CTE/PRO ONE.
Place 2 balls at a zero angle about 2 feet apart, a CB and an OB. An old centennial striped ball with a matching size CB would be ideal. (Old centennial balls are marked at the quarters.)
Very Important! DO NOT DO THIS: Do not stand squarely behind the CTEL with the CB directly between your eyes. If you do this you will be in trouble and will not have any chance of obtaining correct visual perceptions for CTE/PRO ONE.
Considerations for ball address while at the table for this exercise:
Offset your body and eyes to the CB/OB straight-in alignment as described earlier. You MAY be presenting yourself at or close to a 45 degree angle and this can vary. Position yourself so you are slightly looking across the CB toward the OB. I repeat, your eyes are not squarely behind the CB. During the process of obtaining your visuals you will be using both eyes. There are 2 lines of sight, one from each eye. A player’s eyes can work separately and together in perceiving the necessary lines. *A player that is restricted to one line of sight can obtain the visuals, but must rely on overlap perception.
**My suggestion for this exercise is to use your left eye during ball address to aim the left edge of the CB at your OB aim point.
Now for the VISUAL exercise for the CB/OB at 2 feet apart on a zero angle.
CTEL and 1/8
1.Allow your eyes to begin perceiving these 2 lines. Left edge of CB to left 1/8 of OB and the top center of the CB to the right edge of the OB. Tweak your stance and your eyes until you can bring these 2 lines into perception. Your head will be motionless and your eyes can shift to see one line and then shift to perceive the other line when in a perfect visual offset. **The shift is with your eyes, not your head.
CTEL and A
2. Adjust your stance and head position so that your eyes can obtain these 2 lines: Left edge of CB to aim point A and the CTEL perception.**The CTEL perception could have been first. What matters most is that your eyes are positioned from an offset so that only an eye shift is needed to access both lines, the aim line and the sight line.
CTEL and B
3. Adjust your stance and your eyes so that you can accurately perceive these 2 lines: Left edge of CB to OB B and tweak your head position so you can perceive the CTEL **Again, it is okay to perceive the CTEL first and then dial in on the aim line. It is my experience that it does not matter which line comes first. What’s important is the fact that your eyes are in position to perceive both lines with only an eye shift. You can only see one line at a time.
The above exercise of how to obtain CTE/PRO ONE visuals takes a very conscious effort at first. I refer to this conscious process of obtaining visuals as” target shooting”. Once a player’s visuals skills are developed, target shooting is no longer necessary. A player will simply see an “overlap” or perhaps a “tube-like perception running from the CB to the OB”
CTE/PRO ONE is a very strong visual system and any player can learn to have consistent, objective, accurate and repeatable perceptions for ball pocketing.
Stan Shuffett
Last edited:
- Status