PRO ONE DVD: Answering Questions

JE54 said:
I'm trying to constantly get to the same position for the Basic 1 /8 ball overlap. I've watched the video numerous times and I'm not getting that position. If your doing a shot where you going CTE edge to a, b,or C. You have the Ctel for the cue poistion whether it's a right or left pivot. With the 1/8 ball overlap, it's not clear to me where the staring point of the cue is. It dosen't matter if it's a left or right cut. I understand the sighting visual of it, but has anybody come up with a way to position your cue before the pivot to center. I do fairly well with the Pro 1 1/8 ball, but I'm looking for a spot to do the same postilion all the time with Basic.
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the shot you are describing is an inside pivot and it is a lil bit harder to get a visual when standing. I do as best as i can to get a visual while standing and then when i get down and im bridged, i will now check my visuals and this is where i will adjust more and get myself in position to pivot with these type of shots
 
With the help of Redneck Jim's table diagram posted earlier in this thread, I created a practice worksheet that outlines many of the shots from the DVD. Please reference the DVD for the shot details and glossary info.

Link to ProOnePractice.pdf
 
mohrt said:
With the help of Redneck Jim's table diagram posted earlier in this thread, I created a practice worksheet that outlines many of the shots from the DVD. Please reference the DVD for the shot details and glossary info.

Link to ProOnePractice.pdf
Click to expand...

morht,
If these numbers are correct, you've done a great service for the CTE/Pro One enthusiasts.

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
It appears that you are shedding some light upon your playing level with the shot you described above.

I seldom admonish anyone for their level of skill but I notice that you like to come off as an expert about CTE/Pro One and aiming in general.

You are of course wrong about this very basic shot that I highlighted in blue ink. It is taught by Joe V in one of his videos. Joe specifically tells you how to slide the cue ball into the eight. Even Dr. Dave has this shot in his VEPS series and yes, even Dr. Dave tells you exactly how to play it and while Dr. Dave isn't a top player, even he knows how to make this shot CONSISTENTLY by drawing the cue ball into the eight. It is really an elementary shot including breaking up the eight ball.

I'm still learning so we can all continue to learn. There's nothing wrong with not knowing something but acting like you know something when you don't; well there's a problem...........

If you don't know how to play this shot consistently, you should give up pontificating about these things. It doesn't look good on your resume. (It makes your statements about CTE/Pro One look, completely invalid).

just sayin,
JoeyA
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I will be the first to admit I am Wei Table dyslexic, but if you "slide" the CB on this shot you miss the cluster. If you draw it, the CB will curve, just a bit, back into the cluster. I think that is what the PS is talking about and you may want to consider an apology.

Lou Figueroa
just sayin'
 
Joey:
even Dr. Dave tells you exactly how to play it
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Actually, Dr. Dave doesn't do that because that's impossible, just as PoliteSniper says. It's impossible because accuracy in that shot is not just a static result of the "2:1" draw angle principle, but also of shot speed, tip placement and even judgment of ball and cloth condition, which are things that must be learned by experience and feel. Dr. Dave teaches the basic principle that can be used to learn accuracy with the shot, just as PoliteSniper says.

It makes your statements about CTE/Pro One look, completely invalid
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Since PoliteSniper is right and you're wrong, Joey, I guess it's your statements about CTE/Pro One that are completely invalid, huh? Or should I say completely invalid?

pj
chgo
 
ThePoliteSniper said:
It wasn't negative. I really meant what I said.

If you can aim with CTE or any other mystical system, you already do know where to hit the balls. But you don't trust yourself and feel the need for a system like CTE. It may even be able to finally quiet your conscious mind and let you actually memorize all the different shots and potting angles. Which means your game might improve "because of CTE". The sad thing about this is: You don't need CTE, because as I said, you already KNOW how to aim. The system itself doesn't do anything. This may take a very long time for some people to realize - of course nob

CueTable Help

ody can convince you here and now. If you were to accept that CTE is just a distraction, that specific distraction wouldn't work for you anymore, leaving your mind alone at the pool table.

So how can you let your subconscious mind take over the aiming process, like ... on purpose? Without a system?
Here is an idea:

CueTable Help


Please note that this is only an example to make a point and that the diagram is most probably not accurate!
Say you are playing 8-Ball and the 1-Ball is your last solid before the 8-Ball. The 8 is tied up and you look if you can draw the cueball directly into the 8. If the angle on the 1-Ball is too big, the cueball will miss the 8 on the left side. But somehow you just KNOW that it will hit the 8. Not only that. You might even see that the cueball will hit the 8 roughly half-ball on the left side, sending the cueball into the long rail and out, or something like that. Now how do you know that? There is no system in the world with which your brain could consciously calculate the curved path that the cueball is going to take. And yet you can see it. On some days the image is really crisp, on a different day it isn't. If your mechanics suck, it might be blurry. But it's always there. And it's always a learning process.
Aiming, at least for me, is based on the same principle. The difference is, that compared to figuring out the cueball draw path, aiming is a piece of cake.
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You can look at this holistically all day long. The reason CTE or any other hard system of aiming is good is because it gives you a great baseline frame work to use. From that baseline it's then SUPER EASY to consciously adjust to the necessity of the shot.

So using your example above if I use CTE to get to the 100% perfect center pocket shot line then I can EASILY adjust from there to allow me the angle I need to bring the cue ball into the 8.

In contrast in a previous life where I would attempt to use Ghost Ball to do the same thing I would often be "off" a lot of the time due to not guessing the proper ghost ball position and thus not adjusting properly because of starting with an incorrect spot.

I have written a few time about the ancillary benefits of CTE being better cue ball control. Once a player is able to get down on a shot and feel 100% that he is right about the aiming then it allows him to be free to focus entirely on the speed and spin needed.

There is no system in the world that can pull the trigger for you. There are however great systems to get you to the right line so that when you pull the trigger you are as right as you can be.

And of those CTE is the best one I know.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Actually, Dr. Dave doesn't do that because that's impossible, just as PoliteSniper says. It's impossible because accuracy in that shot is not just a static result of the "2:1" draw angle principle, but also of shot speed, tip placement and even judgment of ball and cloth condition, which are things that must be learned by experience and feel. Dr. Dave teaches the basic principle that can be used to learn accuracy with the shot, just as PoliteSniper says.


Since PoliteSniper is right and you're wrong, Joey, I guess it's your statements about CTE/Pro One that are completely invalid, huh? Or should I say completely invalid?

pj
chgo
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And so when you use a great mechanical system like CTE you have more resources to use on proper estimation of things like cloth condition, humidity effects, ball friction, etc...

Works great.

Do you need a video to have it proven to you?
 
lfigueroa said:
I will be the first to admit I am Wei Table dyslexic, but if you "slide" the CB on this shot you miss the cluster. If you draw it, the CB will curve, just a bit, back into the cluster. I think that is what the PS is talking about and you may want to consider an apology.

Lou Figueroa
just sayin'
Click to expand...

It looks like a simple half ball hit to me and if you apply simple draw you should be able to hit the eight ball every time. Dr. Dave shows just such a shot in his VEPS series maybe more than one time. I don't have the time or interest to go find it.

PS may have meant something else and if I was also wrong about PS's skill level he has my apology.

Truthfully, I don't care much about his skill level and I've grown weary making retorts to you guys with all of the CTE/Pro One stuff.

You guys can say whatever you like. I'm fine with whatever floats your boat.

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
It looks like a simple half ball hit to me and if you apply simple draw you should be able to hit the eight ball every time. Dr. Dave shows just such a shot in his VEPS series maybe more than one time. I don't have the time or interest to go find it.

PS may have meant something else and if I was also wrong about PS's skill level he has my apology.

Truthfully, I don't care much about his skill level and I've grown weary making retorts to you guys with all of the CTE/Pro One stuff.

You guys can say whatever you like. I'm fine with whatever floats your boat.

JoeyA
Click to expand...


Well, maybe it's just the straight pool player in me, but there is no way I want to go into the eight on this shot. If the issue is breaking up the cluster *and having another shot* then I'm going into the ten. As Grady might say, "Going into the eight is fraught with ferrule."

Lou Figueroa
or somethin'
like that
 
JoeyA said:
It appears that you are shedding some light upon your playing level with the shot you described above.

I seldom admonish anyone for their level of skill but I notice that you like to come off as an expert about CTE/Pro One and aiming in general.

You are of course wrong about this very basic shot that I highlighted in blue ink. It is taught by Joe V in one of his videos. Joe specifically tells you how to slide the cue ball into the eight. Even Dr. Dave has this shot in his VEPS series and yes, even Dr. Dave tells you exactly how to play it and while Dr. Dave isn't a top player, even he knows how to make this shot CONSISTENTLY by drawing the cue ball into the eight. It is really an elementary shot including breaking up the eight ball.

I'm still learning so we can all continue to learn. There's nothing wrong with not knowing something but acting like you know something when you don't; well there's a problem...........

If you don't know how to play this shot consistently, you should give up pontificating about these things. It doesn't look good on your resume. (It makes your statements about CTE/Pro One look, completely invalid).

just sayin,
JoeyA
Click to expand...

What?

This is not about "how" to play the shot. Don't tell me that someone came up with a magical system even for THAT problem... All you can do is hit the cueball low - maybe with outside english for a thicker hit - and that's it! Will the cueball hit the 8 or will it miss the 8 on the left side? It depends on several factors but mainly on the angle of the shot. If it's just too thin you can hit this shot as good as you want, you will never hit the 8. With a smaller angle you could even hit the 10. It's a basic example of how you would judge the exact path the cueball will take after contact.
Another example and an easier problem would be the natural follow path. Put the 1 ball on the foot spot and set up a shot into a near corner pocket with a little angle, maybe 5° or 10°. Where will the cueball hit the cushion if you hit it with natural follow? Are you relying on the 30° rule, which is a RULE OF THUMB and NOT EXACT, or does your feel and experience take over and you JUST KNOW where the cueball will hit the cushion? An experienced player can mark the spot with a piece of chalk with great accuracy, because it's not that difficult even though it's based entirely on feel.

I'm not a semi-pro, but my game doesn't suck THAT much. What high run do I need for you to take my comments seriously? 200?

Maybe I drew the angle too thick or the 1 too low on the WEI table, but only because I usually don't judge these things from a top down view.
 
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Some fixes have been made to the CTE practice worksheets. Thanks to AtLarge for finding them.

CTE/PRO ONE practice worksheet v1.1

changes:

3:50 -- CB should be 9 instead of 12; OB should be 12 instead of 9; Pocket should be 3 instead of 4.

24:47 -- Pocket should be 3 instead of 4.

30:20 -- Pocket should be 4 instead of 2.

55:45 -- CTEL should be R instead of L.

1:02:00 -- CB should be 35 instead of 5; OB should be 22 instead of 18.

1:05:52 -- This shot has no CTEL visual, because it would be entirely outside the OB (into "space"). Stan simply recommends an overlap of the 1/8 points. For this shot, that would be 1/8 on the left (inside) of the CB sighted to 1/8 on the right (outside) of the OB. Also, Pocket should be 4 instead than 3.

1:06:10 -- No CTEL visual. Instead, sight from 1/8 on the right (inside) of the CB to 1/8 on the left (outside) of the OB. Also, Pocket should be 6 instead of 1.
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I didn't understand it. Seemed long on demonstration and a little short on actual instruction. I know I have to watch it again, but it seems an aiming process shouldn't be this confusing...
 
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The DVD Demo Shots Analyzed

Is this interesting?

If you compare the shots with the same aimpoints and pivot directions, which should produce the same cut angles, you get a range of cut angles as wide as 28 or 29 degrees.

What could account for that, I wonder?

pj
chgo

CTE DVD DEMO CUT ANGLES (MARKED).jpg
 
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Here are two shots from Stan's DVD. On mohrt's practice worksheet they are the 6th shot (the 1-ball shot into the upper right pocket with cue ball A) and the 25th shot (the 2-ball shot into the upper left pocket with cue ball B).

The DVD says to use the same alignment-menu choice for both shots -- CB center to OB left edge, secondary alignment point C, and pivot from left to right. The distance between the CB and OB is the same for both shots. The 1-ball shot is 0 degrees -- dead straight. The 2-ball shot is a cut of approximately 20 degrees. How is it possible that the same alignment for these two shots produces such a difference in hit on the two OB's?

CueTable Help

 
Patrick Johnson said:
Is this interesting?

If you compare the shots with the same aimpoints and pivot directions, which should produce the same cut angles, you get a range of cut angles as wide as 28 or 29 degrees.

What could account for that, I wonder?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I'd say two things: (1) differences in CB-OB distance (I removed that reason in post #562) and (2) oh, what's that other thing called?
 
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