Elbow drop or not

Double-Dave said:

I can safely say not one conventional pro-snooker player drops his elbow for any shot. ... There are a few players with odd-ball cue-action like Dave Harold, Joe Swail, Alex Higgins and Jimmy White,

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Let's check some videos:

I would say that although loose by snooker standards, Ronnie O'Sullivan is pretty textbook. So, please see point 33 at 1:33 and point 89 and 3:48, 105 at 4:20, 112 at 4:27 and of his high speed 147, linked at Dr. Dave' site

Link to O'Sullivan's Rapid Fire 147.

I pick out these shots not to be a nitpicker, but these are the shots that the elbow is in clear view. There are several more that he drops, and many of course that he doesn't drop.

And, as my other thread reports from last year, I watched the Championship at the Crucible, and every snooker player shown dropped their elbow on power shots. Of course, I was specifically looking for the elbow drop.

Check out a video of Stephen Hendry at

http://www.worldsnooker.com/interactive_video.htm-7.htm

Hendry holds his elbow very high, by most standards. Every shot, the elbow drops a few inches. A good elbow shot is at 4:03, pt 41 (the pink) and the subsequent pt 42. Relatively simple shots. There are plenty more. What might be surprising is that his first power shot at ~5:30 (screw on a red) he holds his elbow quite still.

Fred

I went to check the parts on stroke in two snooker instructional books, one by John Spencer, and one by Terry Griffith, just out of curiosity.

In Terry' book, you can see his stance being side way, and he clearly drops his elbow on his follow through.

I think over the years the stance in snooker has changed from sideway to more square. I know it is off topic but does anyone know why? Pool stance seems to be undergoing a similiar change now.

Anyway, I also watched a video of Ronnie O Sullivan and he dropped his elbow after his shots in the video.

I am wondering, is the elbow drop perhaps a way to finish a smooth stroke with a long follow through?

Richard

I think the pros are at a point where they don't think about whether they drop their elbows or not. They look at a shot, determine where they have to get the cb to go to, and then shoot the shot. If they need the juice requiring them to drop their elbows, they do so unconsciously. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

drop it like its hot

I am wondering said:

It's used to get more action on the cue ball. For me it just feels so fluid, and helps me to make sure im not jabbing at the ball. Look at McCready's stroke some time he really gets his elbow dropping and gets so much action on the cue ball.

Mack

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banger

Rickw said:

I think the pros are at a point where they don't think about whether they drop their elbows or not.

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I think the pro's are at a point where nearly every part of there game is automatic, for the most part I think all they think about is position.

Im a banger though so you didnt hear that from me.

Mack

iacas said:

The point remains: for the overwhelming majority of shots in pool, a still elbow is the simplest way to ensure precise contact on the cue ball. I think it's a method that should be taught because it makes the most sense. It does not apply to every shot (duh), and it matters not to me whether instructors or guys who have played 8 hours a day for 20+ years do it. It makes common sense, it makes biomechanical sense, and it makes it easiest for students to progress rapidly.

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I don't know about you, but I love power strokes. And whenever I'm able, and table conditions allow it, I try to take a full stroke. Bob Henning in "The Advanced Pro Book" specifically recommends it, because it helps to build confidence. Those dinky little strokes are needed a lot of the time, but they don't really satisfy me psychologically. Let me zing the ball into the pocket and come around 3 rails for position. If I need to really stroke the ball to do that, that's great. It's cool... Sometimes, to make all that happen, dropping the elbow is necessary, at least in my humble experience.

Flex

Colin Colenso said:

Does not their certification process provide a sort of basic guideline for instruction?

What would happen if a rogue BCA instructor started teaching players to drop their elbows and publically countered the opinions of other BCA instructors.

Just interested to know some of the dynamics. I obviously don't know much about the program.

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If I remember correctly, FL was a BCA certified instructor some years ago, and dropped it because of stuff like this. He teaches the elbow drop on follow shots. When he called BCA instuctors ball skidders and stuff like that, did the you know what hit the fan, or what?

Flex

freddy the beard said:

Worse advice has never been given in the history of instruction. To deliberately seek to take away the use of at least 50 percent of your stroking arm is insane. The problem comes from too few people knowing the actual mechanics, and subsequent timing, of a correct stroke. However, there is a whole pattern of shots that do not require the elbow to drop (many slip-stroke and softly hit shots), the really great players, ala Mosconi, used their elbow as needed.

the Beard
Drop on, brother!




the Beard

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Hear, hear! Tell it like it is!

Flex

I think it's a matter of style and preference. Neither technique is wrong. However, long power draws or extreme follow strokes will naturally drag the elbow down during the (longer than usual) follow through. I think it would be too difficult to draw the CB full table length and more with OB being 6 diamonds away using absolutely locked elbow...couldn't imagine anyone doing that...the stroke wouldn't be smooth and long enough...please correct me if I'm wrong.