Dechaine 8 and out vs Archer?

Another very important factor......

Another thing that makes Mike's feat even more incredible is that ALL BALLS ARE CALLED. This practically eliminates all luck from the equation and this is one very important difference between yesteryear's nine ball and today's U.S. 10 Ball Championship.

JoeyA
 
Dave in Boston said:
I just remember a few years ago that they were complaining you wouldnt see packages like this in 10ball and here you go he runs 8 and out. Just impressive in 10ball


Also 10ball are tougher rules wise. No early games for making the 10 on the break and I am not positive but are they playing called pocket also?

If so I think 8 and out 10ball is alot more difficult then say 12 and out in 9ball. Specially how tough it is to break 10ball and no early games on the break plus call pocket if thats the rule.
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Yes they are playing call pocket.
IMO this type of play is made possible by the "Magic Rack" & steller play of course but the bottom line is when you grove your break with the Magic Rack 1 or 2 balls are going on the break and the 1 Ball is sitting by the corner pocket almost everytime. JA & MD was not recorded but go back and watch Alex vs. Matt on the TV match and you will see exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to the break shot & putting racks together. :thumbup:
 
jay helfert said:
An "eight pack" playing Ten Ball on these tough Diamond tables is a remarkable feat any way you look at it. My observations are that the players are finally sorting out how to break in Ten Ball. It's not the powerful explosiveness of SVB that gets the job done. There is a controlled break, at about 75-80% power, that is working well for the best players. They are attempting to make a ball in the side, with the cue ball hopping back near mid table, leaving a shot on the one.

Dechaine and Raj Hundal are two of the best at this I've seen. Over in Asia, I saw several players breaking effectively like this as well. We are just now beginning to see four and five packs on a regular basis. This is the first eight pack I've heard of at Ten Ball. What is happening is that thanks to the Magic Rack, the players have learned the optimum break shot.

I never thought I would ever say this, but maybe these tournaments need to be played
using alternate breaks
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. I for one, wouldn't mind seeing the advent of Rotation tournaments. To me it is the ultimate rotation game. A Race to Five (or six) is a good contest and run outs will be the exception, rather than the rule. Just my two cents. I don't know about you, but I wish I could have seen Mike's eight racks. It still ain't easy to run all those racks. We won't be seeing that again for a while, a long while!
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Instead of alernating breaks....why not extend the races to say 15....and call it a match if a player gets 10 ahead, this isn't ping pong you know....it's my serve....no...it's MY serve....no, you served last time...it's MY SERVE NOW:D
 
damn i wanna see that 8 pack real bad

outside of probably seeing some brilliant pool, I really wanna see the breaking scenarios in that run
 
Very good post. Nailed it perfectly. SVB was the first to figure out the 10 ball rack. Now a couple dozen of the top pros have it figured out. There were several of them talking about it at length at the Ultimate 10 ball in Frisco. The Magic Rack makes it even more predictable. Dechaine is playing well right now and breaking even better.

mudball said:
First off I don't want to take absolutely anything away from the 8 pack feat. I don't care what rack you're using or what game you're playing, an 8 pack (especially when it is a race to 8) requires a ton of concentration and composure.

What I've noticed though is what once was a premium only to SVB is now fairly common knowledge amongst all top players. I still feel nobody hits the head ball with more accuracy than him, but with the Magic Rack unfortunately that does not matter. The two balls can still be dead in the side, or the corner balls dead 4 rails into the corners if you are not 100% accurate. Watching the World 10 ball this year it seemed like everybody had a break. Maybe it was just me? Maybe the game is just progressing at a super high rate?

Personally I'm still very surprised how long it took everyone, especially the Filipinos, to catch on. Dennis Orcollo was still breaking from the side rail (LOL right??) when he won the Predator stop in Vegas. Only until recently did I notice him putting in serious time on the 10 ball break (from the box) on the Star Billiards stream.

(It should be noted that after the most recent Ultimate 10 ball tourney I finally purchased a Magic Rack myself and LOVE it for 10 ball since the ball conditions where I practice are not capable of giving a tight rack with a triangle. But I am starting to wonder if what Ray said is true...)
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OUSooner said:
Very good post. Nailed it perfectly. SVB was the first to figure out the 10 ball rack. Now a couple dozen of the top pros have it figured out. There were several of them talking about it at length at the Ultimate 10 ball in Frisco. The Magic Rack makes it even more predictable. Dechaine is playing well right now and breaking even better.
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With all the talk about the Magic Rack, and not trying to knock it, I'm going to start another thread instead about the Tru Rack, instead of derailing this fine thread. It was an interesting first experience last night at the pool hall.

JoeyA
 
CrownCityCorey said:
About 5 years back, I missed the three ball (?) in the first rack, then Brian Groce ran the set on me. :cool:
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Well, that's pretty close. Ernesto and Arturo have both run 5 and out on me in the Sunday HardTimes tourney. I saw Jack Hines run 7 and out against Brian Roberts in Louisville back in the early 90's.
 
The guy in the booth with Justin for the 10 ball final between SVB and Alcaide just said that Johnny missed a shot in the first rack before Dechaine ran out the set.
 
when i was on the practice table with mike, we noticed certain things about the break.

hitting it full on made more balls, but the cueball was being kicked by the 1 ball, so by adjusting to the right slightly was making less balls but a better cueball.

i didnt see him run the 8 pack so not sure which of the 2 options he went for, but its still an amazing feat.

But the magic rack has made breaking so easy this week, i seen scott frost making 4 maybe 5 balls on a break... enough said
 
lee brett said:
when i was on the practice table with mike, we noticed certain things about the break.

hitting it full on made more balls, but the cueball was being kicked by the 1 ball, so by adjusting to the right slightly was making less balls but a better cueball.

i didnt see him run the 8 pack so not sure which of the 2 options he went for, but its still an amazing feat.

But the magic rack has made breaking so easy this week, i seen scott frost making 4 maybe 5 balls on a break... enough said
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There definitely seems to be a lot more balls going on the break with the magic rack. Some guys are playing 6 ball or 7 ball at times.
 
I watched alot of the 10 ball event live. 4&5 packs was real common the main thing I saw was consistant ball pocketing(usually the wing ball) and the one ball went to the breakers end corner all the time. Imo if you are going to allow the magic rack in competition (as csi did in the bca nine ball open) then the game needs to be played alternate break.
 
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PoolBum said:
The guy in the booth with Justin for the 10 ball final between SVB and Alcaide just said that Johnny missed a shot in the first rack before Dechaine ran out the set.
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Just for the record I'd like to get confirmation on whether this was a perfect set or not. Even if it was "only" a 7.5 pack, I'm sure it felt like an 8 and out to JA.
 
barber23 said:
I watched alot of the 10 ball event live. 4&5 packs was real common the main thing I saw was consistant ball pocketing(usually the wing ball) and the one ball went to the breakers end corner all the time. Imo if you are going to allow the magic rack in competition (as csi did in the bca nine ball open) then the game needs to be played alternate break.
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Why alternate breaks...if a player hasn't missed a ball yet...after pocketing the 10?...he should be able to break again...and KEEP shooting until a miss....isn't that what REAL pool is all about?...How would you like to see 14.1 played if a player could only pocket a high run of 14 balls....and then had to turn over the table to his opponet....so HE could shoot...and run 14 balls....kind of reminds me of "PING PONG";)

If you want to guarantee a shot for the opponet...then make the races to either 15 or 21...single elimination!!!...may the BEST player WIN!
Glen
 
barber23 said:
I watched alot of the 10 ball event live. 4&5 packs was real common the main thing I saw was consistant ball pocketing(usually the wing ball) and the one ball went to the breakers end corner all the time. Imo if you are going to allow the magic rack in competition (as csi did in the bca nine ball open) then the game needs to be played alternate break.
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Alternate break is totally ridiculous for pro pool and should not have been allowed ever.

The bottom line is that while the eight pack was a stellar accomplishment regardless, a race to eight of ten ball is barely a sprint for players of this level. I watched tons of matches and on countless occasions it seemed that as soon as both players got settled into the match it was over. If the powers that be ever want the game to be taken seriously they need to put together a real pro-caliber format especially for the later rounds and the final. I mean these guys come from all over the world, they deserve a fair shot at the money.

After all, it's pretty dumb that a championship-level tournament featured races to eight when just a short distance away two of the pros matched up for cash and played races to nineteen ! Now that's a ten ball match.
 
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gromulan said:
Alternate break is totally ridiculous for pro pool and should not have been allowed ever.

The bottom line is that while the eight pack was a stellar accomplishment regardless, a race to eight of ten ball is barely a sprint for players of this level. I watched tons of matches and on countless occasions it seemed that as soon as both players got settled into the match it was over. If the powers that be ever want the game to be taken seriously they need to put together a real pro-caliber format especially for the later rounds and the final. I mean these guys come from all over the world, they deserve a fair shot at the money.

After all, it's pretty dumb that a championship-level tournament featured races to eight when just a short distance away two of the pros matched up for cash and played races to nineteen ! Now that's a ten ball match.
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Don't think you can have long races in a tournament and expect the time played to be reasonable with waiting for matches to finish, enough time given for a large field to run down. You'll have players paying for 10 days of hotels to play in any tournament if the races are all over 11 or something.

For short races though you pretty much need an alternate break, or maybe every 2-3 racks the break switches. Bit like the serve in table tennis. Or, what if the balls made on the break were spotted like in the old times? I am pretty sure the match between Fats and Mosconi that I have seen, when they played 9-ball (or was it 7 ball?), anything made on the break got spotted up.
 
I wonder what Johnny Archer says about the Magic Rack?????????????????
 
Sorry guys, not a perfect set. I actually came up dry the first break and Johnny missed the two ball and then I ran out the set. Maybe next tournament.
 
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