Fury 14.1 Tournament Phase Updates

whoa, folks -- let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, here.

i gave $500 to this event -- not exactly chump change -- and i am pissed that Mika & Charlie bailed.

but it's not productive to punish the Event because of bad player behavior.

i'm hoping that Charles and/or Steve will chime in here with suggestions for how this is handled, but it seems to me one approach is to say "you don't play the final, you don't get ANY money". and the next person down the ladder plays the final.

in cases like Mika's, if there's a conflicting Official Event, then the playoff should be scheduled accordingly, if that's possible. but things like Charlie bailing to watch another event don't cut it.

my contribution next year depends on what is done about this situation. i still want to support 14.1, and Charles and Steve and many others put one helluva lot of hard work into this thing, as i saw up close in the booth for 3 days. from what i could see, they were clawing for every scrap of visibility they could get for 14.1, and not always with any help from the powers-that-be.

but with this and the DCC fiasco in a row, it's really getting outta hand, and i for one won't pony up money for players who don't show.
 
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I stuck around and I know Mika didnt finish his other tourny finals until after 8pm . I heard Charlie waited for an hour and left. The show closed at 6pm officially. Not sure if they couldve even played it wouldve ended at 10-11pm.
Its tough when you want the best players to play but there is alot going on at the expo and not enough time. I think Charles Eames and crew did best with what they had.
Thanks to all the sponsors,too!
 
wigglybridge said:
whoa, folks -- let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, here.

i gave $500 to this event -- not exactly chump change -- and am pissed that Mika & Charlie bailed.
but it's not productive to punish the Event because of bad player behavior.

i'm hoping that Charles and/or Steve will chime in here with suggestions for how this is handled, but it seems to me one approach is to say "you don't play the final, you don't get ANY money". and the next person down the ladder plays the final.

i think in Mika's case, if he has a conflicting Official Event, then the playoff should be scheduled accordingly, if that's possible. but Charlie bailing to watch another event doesn't cut it.

my contribution next year depends on what is done about this situation. i still want to support 14.1, and Charles and Steve and many others put one helluva lot of hard work into this thing, as i saw up close.

but with this and the DCC fiasco in a row, it's really getting outta hand, and i for one won't pony up money for players who don't show.
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This is what I am talking about when I say that the actions this year may have drastic effects on the future of this event. There are a number of folks who put money into this and I would imagine not a single one of them is happy about how things turned out. They will probably ALL question their donations next year, if they even DO donate next year.

What I was referring to when I asked if there would be a challenge next year was not punishing the "event" because of the actions of the players in question, but rather pointing out that this whole event is run on donations and sponsorship, and I can see it being ALOT harder for the event organizers to raise the funds necessary if there is a possibility of situations like this happening again.
 
My dear pool-fans.
This is sadly nothing new- there are many pros who chop the price money every time. Very few really playin for the full amount. They already made *their buisness* right before the first round.

And this since years.
 
wigglybridge said:
whoa, folks -- let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, here.

i gave $500 to this event -- not exactly chump change -- and i am pissed that Mika & Charlie bailed.

but it's not productive to punish the Event because of bad player behavior.

i'm hoping that Charles and/or Steve will chime in here with suggestions for how this is handled, but it seems to me one approach is to say "you don't play the final, you don't get ANY money". and the next person down the ladder plays the final.

in cases like Mika's, if there's a conflicting Official Event, then the playoff should be scheduled accordingly, if that's possible. but things like Charlie bailing to watch another event don't cut it.

my contribution next year depends on what is done about this situation. i still want to support 14.1, and Charles and Steve and many others put one helluva lot of hard work into this thing, as i saw up close in the booth for 3 days. from what i could see, they were clawing for every scrap of visibility they could get for 14.1, and not always with any help from the powers-that-be.

but with this and the DCC fiasco in a row, it's really getting outta hand, and i for one won't pony up money for players who don't show.
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Mika and CW aren't allowed to play in the next one would be a good start. And the entry includes a written agreement to play to the end, with the final being streamed.

Also, the challenge needs to have full status at any event at which it is being played so that it's rounds are scheduled to not conflict with the other events, including the timing of streamed matches.

How much was the added money and where can we see the pay-outs for this year's event?
 
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Apology to Fury Cues

Mr. Carter, Fury Cues and Allen Hopkins, my sincere apology for having ABP Pros chop and not playing the finals.
What a slap in the face to all pool players.

Charlie Williams and ABP continues to disrespect the pool community.
It is all about himself.

He doesn't represent the fans who love pool.

Once again a sincere apology, Bernard Calip
 
BarneyCalip said:
Mr. Carter, Fury Cues and Allen Hopkins, my sincere apology for having ABP Pros chop and not playing the finals.
What a slap in the face to all pool players.

Charlie Williams and ABP continues to disrespect the pool community.
It is all about himself.

He doesn't represent the fans who love pool.
Click to expand...

IMO, the issues here go beyond this newest incident of pool players chopping up the prize fund. This also has to do with pool cleaning up its image so that sponsors become more interested in supporting our sport.

When you have players like Alex P. disrespecting the game by showing up drunk in a 14.1 finals game against Appleton, it becomes extremely difficult for pool to clean up its image.

IMO, for pool to clean up its image so that it can garner sponsorship interest, it needs a disciplinary body that will fine and discipline its members for inappropriate behavior. Since the ABP clearly isn't up to the task, that means that the tournament organizers must step up to the plate and discipline players when appropriate.
 
Well guys I have been watching this thread closely wondering where to begin.

First as always a massive thank you to our sponsors who do include Matt Carter of Fury and to Fury as a whole and Bob Mills who have both posted their concerns and opinions here. A massive thank you goes out to all of our other sponsors including Diamond Billiard Products Bob Jewett the members of this incredible forum, Pete Tonkin, OB Cues, Jacoby Cues, Sandcastle Billiards, Drexeline Billiards, Raxx Billiards, RJH Custom Cues Tony Zinzola cues, Inside Pool, NYCGrind, Allen Hopkins and so many more just to name a few.

In response to what happened this year we were in a no win situation. We do apologize to the fans and sponsors that feel they were cheated out of a final as it truly wasn't our intention. Charlie stuck around as best he could but Mika was stuck playing in the Cue Cube Million Dollar Freeze out event. He didn't finish until well after 8 pm and by that time we wouldn't have gotten underway until about 9 and not get done till about 11. All the while that would be going as it was last year and the year before the expo would be getting torn down around us etc. This of course is no excuse we know and I do have an idea in place for the future.

The answer is a simple one and will be put in place starting at next year's event. If there is a chance you will be another competing event on Sunday you will not be allowed into the event. We will no longer allow there to be a chance of there being no final. Even if it is not streamed there will be a final from now on. We understand that we are only a side event to the expo but we work extremely hard as Bob Mills and Matt Carter have seen first hand with there being some nights going till 5 am and having to be back at 9:30 the next morning. The fans deserve it, the sponsors deserve it, and in truth all of us who put in the hours at the booth deserve it. We do not blame Charlie or Mika personally as it was their intention to play in this event and help support it with their presence allowing me personally to go on the mic and draw crowds from their being there. Something for next year however has to be done and will be done to rectify the situation we currently find ourselves in.

There were a few things that went on this year that I looked at that need to be changed for the future. First and foremost is the final being played but also the way we break down our players. There will no longer be an amateur and pro category. It will be broken down differently and will be put in place next year utilizing a three bracket system. Unless you are a name professional or have been in our top 8 before you will be rated solely on the points you score and all scores will be taken into consideration.

Each player will be explained this to immediately before even touching the table that way there is no confusion and a large poster will be present at all times as well with our rules again so there is no confusion and everyone is given the option of either adhering to our rules or not playing simple as that.

Again Steve and myself are truly sorry that no final was played we did the absolute best we could with the event this year. We need to thank Scott Heide and of course Matt for being incredible title sponsors (Fury Cues) and even to go above and beyond by supplying us with trussing to hang table lights generously donated by Diamond Billiard Products.

Next year will be better, I am already in the planning stage of it now. Deconstructing the last three years figuring out what worked and what didn't to make the event better. I nor Steve are professional tournament organizers nor do we claim to be but you guys are right here when you say that something needs to be done. I look forward to next year and seeing what we can do to improve the event for the better to make it a better experience for everyone involved.
 
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set an example

I totally agree they shoud have been made to play that set i bet it all that had this been a ten ball event somebodys ass woulda been wore out by he evenings end with that being said i would make an example outta these morons they are taking advantage of their said lively hood who are they to claim winnnings without winning them answer that 2things i will say was i was at sbe last year and mika is in top form and so was alex i watchd all of their matches anbd then some so im totally in awe as to what is goin on inside the organization to make them not take it so seriously a year later?
 
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"Things that make you go hmmmm" -

Mika is represented by Dragon Promotions and Charlie owns Dragon Promotions. Was the split just a coincidence???

Do you think a split would have occurred if one of the players was not associated with Dragon Promotions?
 
I was born in Brooklyn. We always said, "Wait until next year!" As Charles's eloquent post said so well, the important thing is to learn and grow from the teething troubles that this and the Derby City event have experienced. As a forum member I have made a small contribution to each event and will do that and more next year. Indeed let's not "punish the event." Let's rather give Charles and Steve all the support to keep the 14.1 challenge alive, well, and growing.
 
Again:
For sure it is sad that this happened here in this case at the SBE on the 14.1 event.
But the main problem is, that there are too many professionals, who are have deals on each tournament. And this since a very long time.
No wonder that some sponsors denying immediatley, if they have a little knowledge about the pool-scene.

And i am very sure that Mr. Eames and Mr Kurtz and all the other guys will improve AGAIN and will do again a bit better tournament next year (better than already a great tournament it was til now!!). It s just a kick in the ass for those addicted good guys who made this great event happen.
 
Of course this wasn't the fist time in history two players chopped 1st and 2nd money. I'm not a big fan of the practice because I think fans want to watch players competing under the pressure of playing for first place money rather than the final being more of an exhibition - but that's a subject for a different thread.

The point is that just because the two finalists have a deal, doesn't mean they have no responsibility whatsoever to play the final match.
 
Charlie and Steve,

I, too, was disapointed at the lack of a finals. I think the plan you outlined is workable. There were other things at SBE that I was disapointed with but not the challenge itself.

The fact that pros disrespect the game and fans is, unfortuneately, part of pool. I offered condolences to a player when he lost a match on the winners side and wished him luck in his upcomming match to a "Bite me!" reply. Does that mean I wont watch him shoot pool? No.

Nor will I give up on the 14.1 Challenge. I'm in for another $200.00 next year.

Andy
 
Fury 14.1 Hi Run Challenge

First of all, a big thanks to Charlie and Steve and all the sponsors and volunteers for putting on this event again.

It is a lot of work and even though the top players did not play the finals, please don't hold the event workers responsible.

When we did the event at the BCAPL in May (Las Vegas), we had the top 8 player play in a finals. As it turns out, Corey Duell was still in the US Open 10-Ball and he had to forfeit his 14.1 match.

Sometimes things happen.

But I do find it a shame that the finals were not played.

But try and support this event in the future.

Mark Griffin
 
ForumGhost516 said:
Well guys I have been watching this thread closely wondering where to begin.

First as always a massive thank you to our sponsors who do include Matt Carter of Fury and to Fury as a whole and Bob Mills who have both posted their concerns and opinions here. A massive thank you goes out to all of our other sponsors including Diamond Billiard Products Bob Jewett the members of this incredible forum, Pete Tonkin, OB Cues, Jacoby Cues, Sandcastle Billiards, Drexeline Billiards, Raxx Billiards, RJH Custom Cues Tony Zinzola cues, Inside Pool, NYCGrind, Allen Hopkins and so many more just to name a few.

In response to what happened this year we were in a no win situation. We do apologize to the fans and sponsors that feel they were cheated out of a final as it truly wasn't our intention. Charlie stuck around as best he could but Mika was stuck playing in the Cue Cube Million Dollar Freeze out event. He didn't finish until well after 8 pm and by that time we wouldn't have gotten underway until about 9 and not get done till about 11. All the while that would be going as it was last year and the year before the expo would be getting torn down around us etc. This of course is no excuse we know and I do have an idea in place for the future.

The answer is a simple one and will be put in place starting at next year's event. If there is a chance you will be another competing event on Sunday you will not be allowed into the event. We will no longer allow there to be a chance of there being no final. Even if it is not streamed there will be a final from now on. We understand that we are only a side event to the expo but we work extremely hard as Bob Mills and Matt Carter have seen first hand with there being some nights going till 5 am and having to be back at 9:30 the next morning. The fans deserve it, the sponsors deserve it, and in truth all of us who put in the hours at the booth deserve it. We do not blame Charlie or Mika personally as it was their intention to play in this event and help support it with their presence allowing me personally to go on the mic and draw crowds from their being there. Something for next year however has to be done and will be done to rectify the situation we currently find ourselves in.

There were a few things that went on this year that I looked at that need to be changed for the future. First and foremost is the final being played but also the way we break down our players. There will no longer be an amateur and pro category. It will be broken down differently and will be put in place next year utilizing a three bracket system. Unless you are a name professional or have been in our top 8 before you will be rated solely on the points you score and all scores will be taken into consideration.

Each player will be explained this to immediately before even touching the table that way there is no confusion and a large poster will be present at all times as well with our rules again so there is no confusion and everyone is given the option of either adhering to our rules or not playing simple as that.

Again Steve and myself are truly sorry that no final was played we did the absolute best we could with the event this year. We need to thank Scott Heide and of course Matt for being incredible title sponsors (Fury Cues) and even to go above and beyond by supplying us with trussing to hang table lights generously donated by Diamond Billiard Products.

Next year will be better, I am already in the planning stage of it now. Deconstructing the last three years figuring out what worked and what didn't to make the event better. I nor Steve are professional tournament organizers nor do we claim to be but you guys are right here when you say that something needs to be done. I look forward to next year and seeing what we can do to improve the event for the better to make it a better experience for everyone involved.
Click to expand...

How about simply doing this;

Because of the multiple events going on you make it known to all participants when the finals of the 14.1 are scheduled and IF the two finalists are not present then you go down the list of the people who qualified and pick the ones with the best records to play out the finals. No money for anyone who doesn't play.

So if Charlie was there and Mika wasn't then simply pick the next person to play who is there and that way you are assured to have a final match.

There is no way you are going to be able to predict what happens with other events and no way you are going to be able to keep the pros from entering multiple events.

So the best thing you can do is have a "must be present to win" policy and award the spot to play the finals to the qualifiers who are present. That way it puts the onus of deciding which event is more important to the players on the players and most likely will insure that you have a pool of great players to choose from to contest the final match of the Fury 14.1 challenge.
 
JB Cases said:
How about simply doing this;

Because of the multiple events going on you make it known to all participants when the finals of the 14.1 are scheduled and IF the two finalists are not present then you go down the list of the people who qualified and pick the ones with the best records to play out the finals. No money for anyone who doesn't play.

So if Charlie was there and Mika wasn't then simply pick the next person to play who is there and that way you are assured to have a final match.

There is no way you are going to be able to predict what happens with other events and no way you are going to be able to keep the pros from entering multiple events.

So the best thing you can do is have a "must be present to win" policy and award the spot to play the finals to the qualifiers who are present. That way it puts the onus of deciding which event is more important to the players on the players and most likely will insure that you have a pool of great players to choose from to contest the final match of the Fury 14.1 challenge.
Click to expand...

I agree with this policy. But, unfortunately, politics *WILL* intervene, and certain "special treatment" players like Mika, if they get to the semis/finals, *WILL* introduce monkey wrenches in that policy -- especially if a sponsor, or backend "very important person" in that player's lineage intervenes.

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
I agree with this policy. But, unfortunately, politics *WILL* intervene, and certain "special treatment" players like Mika, if they get to the semis/finals, *WILL* introduce monkey wrenches in that policy -- especially if a sponsor, or backend "very important person" in that player's lineage intervenes.

-Sean
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with politics you just can't allow a player into the event anymore who has the opportunity of not being in the finals when we are ready to play simple as that no matter who they are, or who their backend people are, or what that player's lineage is.

For two years we had a great final live streamed from inside pool and this year due to bad schedules etc we couldn't and it won't happen again plain and simple. All players will be notified as they are signing up to take part in the event that this is a commitment to play in our finals on Sunday and if there is a chance that you will be in the pro event the pro am the finals of the open etc on Sunday than you probably shouldn't play.

If you let that player play to begin with and then tell them because they can't play the final that they aren't getting paid you will have a war on your hands no matter if its the right thing to do or not. I would rather circumvent this entirely by simply barring entry until that player knows for sure that they can play on the Sunday.

Darren Appleton last year's champion knew for a fact he was playing on Sunday therefore he didn't play in our event this year as much as he wanted to and taking from his lead this is the way we will progress in the future. We will not let fans and sponsors be let down again by there not being a final.
 
Finals

Yes, I agree. There should be a final match no matter who is the player. With out a doubt, they should not enter the tournament if they think that they will not be able to play in the final b/c of another tournament. They owe that to the fans! Fans are the life blood of every sport.
 
ForumGhost516 said:
... if there is a chance that you will be in the pro event the pro am the finals of the open etc on Sunday than you probably shouldn't play. ...
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Would this policy prevent most of the top 14.1 players from playing in the 14.1 challenge, at least until they had been knocked out of other events that run through Sunday? I don't think you can expect any of the top 14.1 players to give the 14.1 Challenge a higher priority than other events that offer more prize money.
 
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