Question about the Simonis DVD's.

L

LoWang

Banned
At the beginning of the glue down directions I believe a very important step is missing.

Shouldn't the cloth be CUT to leave a 3/4" overhang past the bottom of the slate on all sides? Cutting of the felt PRIOR to overlapping the cloth and gluing is never mentioned on the DVD.

Without cutting the cloths width down first I think the stretch edge will have a glued area that is completely off of the table since there is an excessive amount of cloth.

Thanks in advance.
 
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LoWang said:
At the beginning of the glue down directions I believe a very important step is missing.

Shouldn't the cloth be CUT to leave a 3/4" overhang past the bottom of the slate on all sides? Cutting of the felt PRIOR to overlapping the cloth and gluing is never mentioned on the DVD.

Without cutting the cloths width down first I think the stretch edge will have a glued area that is completely off of the table since there is an excessive amount of cloth.

Thanks in advance.
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The Simonis DVDs didn't show the glue down method, but when I get a chance to make them, you'll see that how wide the cloth is has nothing to do with how the cloth is glued, or how it's installed.

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
The Simonis DVDs didn't show the glue down method, but when I get a chance to make them, you'll see that how wide the cloth is has nothing to do with how the cloth is glued, or how it's installed.

Glen
Click to expand...

The DVD's for Rail Cloth and Bed Cloth from Simonis do show glue down methods for one piece slate.

The videos show the stretch side being put in the center and then the anchor side pulled with a 1-1/2 inch of overlap across the stretch side. Glue is applied at 1-1/2 inches on anchor side and 3 inches on the stretch side.

The error in the directions comes from the omitting of either cutting the felt down first or creasing and marking the felt to insure the stretch side will have glue that lands on the slate when stretched.

The cloth out of the bag has a good foot or more overhang so the glue zone on the stretch side would be off the table if you follow the DVD instructions by the letter.

This is a huge oversight and I'm sure it is causing a lot of frustration by installers following the DVD directions to a tee.

I would like to know what the recommended best practice is for marking/cutting of the cloth for the stretch side glue.

I think it is a matter of laying the cloth and then firmly rubbing the cloth with a block against the edge of the slate to create a crease/reference line around the entire table.

Opinions anyone?
 
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Glen,

The Simonis DVD's I obtained in December have a staple down method shown first, followed by a glue down method.

Todd
 
Reaboy said:
Glen,

The Simonis DVD's I obtained in December have a staple down method shown first, followed by a glue down method.

Todd
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The glue down method on the bar slate is Jay's method, which is OK, but my method to glue the bed cloth down is different than what Jay demonstrated, and was not demonstrated at that time for a reason;) but will be shown and explained at a later date.

Glen
 
I wish I had extra cloth when doing my bed, I think the slate measured 47 1/2" and the cloth measured 49 1/2", I had enough to do it with the stretch but it was difficult. I just finished up with it a couple of weeks ago, I will post the problems I had to go thru in the future with both the Simonis cloth and the $30.00 Simonis instructional dvd. I was a little less than pleased. I maybe wonder if I had problems because I have a Gold Crown and they few and far between, more to come later????????????????????
 
LoWang said:
The DVD's for Rail Cloth and Bed Cloth from Simonis do show glue down methods for one piece slate.

The videos show the stretch side being put in the center and then the anchor side pulled with a 1-1/2 inch of overlap across the stretch side. Glue is applied at 1-1/2 inches on anchor side and 3 inches on the stretch side.

The error in the directions comes from the omitting of either cutting the felt down first or creasing and marking the felt to insure the stretch side will have glue that lands on the slate when stretched.

The cloth out of the bag has a good foot or more overhang so the glue zone on the stretch side would be off the table if you follow the DVD instructions by the letter.

This is a huge oversight and I'm sure it is causing a lot of frustration by installers following the DVD directions to a tee.

I would like to know what the recommended best practice is for marking/cutting of the cloth for the stretch side glue.

I think it is a matter of laying the cloth and then firmly rubbing the cloth with a block against the edge of the slate to create a crease/reference line around the entire table.

Opinions anyone?
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Either you have confused us or yourself. You may be not remembering to index the cloth before any glue is applied, other than that I'm not to sure what you meant.
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Rob.M
 
dontlitethat said:
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Either you have confused us or yourself. You may be not remembering to index the cloth before any glue is applied, other than that I'm not to sure what you meant.
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Rob.M
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If you don't own or haven't seen the Simonis DVD's then you won't know what I'm talking about.

In the video the cloth is laid out center of the table. The stretch side is folded to the center of the table. The anchor side is then folded into the center of the table overlapping the stretch side by 1-1/2". Glue is sprayed on both sides at this point.

The problem is not with the anchor side.

The stretch side will have adhesive starting 1-1/2" from the edge and 3" wide according to the directions. The cloth has about a FOOT of overhang out of the bag. What good is the glue that close to the edge of the cloth. It needs to be about another foot inside the cloth edge to land on the edge of the table when stretched.

The video never references using the index marks for figuring out the glue location....and that is MY WHOLE POINT.

If someone just folds the cloth as depicted in the video and captions they will end up with the glue strip on the stretch side in their hand while the area that should have glue is bare.

PS...no point in the smart ass comment about someone being confused. And who is the "us" that you are saying is confused? Do you have split personalities or do you feel like you are qualified to speak for everyone in the forum. Don't make it personal buddy.
 
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On the 9ft I demonstrated how to figure the stretch index for any cloth being installed, it's there in the DVD, along with the slack measurement for the side pockets, both sides. I don't recall how Jay installed the bed cloth on the 7ft bar table slate, I wasn't in the room at the time, and I've never watched the DVDs since I know how to do everything recorded in them.

Glen
 
Cloth

No time was I ever trying to be a smart ass'
My apologies if you felt' I was..
"We or us" was referred to the regulars on the forum section, we are not all best friends or see perfectly eye to eye about everything, but we "us""that know each other" all have personally collected info from our working with billiard fabrics and sharing ideas enough that we are aware of cloth process and procedures of installation.
I believe the DVD videos was created for the workers in the billiard cloth installation and trade.
I have seen the videos awhile back and do remember seeing spray glue used on the bar table slate.
I have not installed bar table cloth with spray glue in a long time "spraying both surfaces" so I may be unaware of the problem your having.
I can see where a person that knows nothing about pool table cloth trying to follow the DVD having a problem or two.
They are unaware how cloth comes off the bolt.
If ur in a snooker or get in a pinch with installing the somonis cloth just stop by and I'm sure u'd be offered good advise.
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Rob.M
 
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fastone371 said:
I wish I had extra cloth when doing my bed, I think the slate measured 47 1/2" and the cloth measured 49 1/2", I had enough to do it with the stretch but it was difficult. I just finished up with it a couple of weeks ago, I will post the problems I had to go thru in the future with both the Simonis cloth and the $30.00 Simonis instructional dvd. I was a little less than pleased. I maybe wonder if I had problems because I have a Gold Crown and they few and far between, more to come later????????????????????
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Just my 2 cents but it would seem you either ordered the wrong size cloth or whoever you bought it from cut it incorrectly.
 
fastone371 said:
I wish I had extra cloth when doing my bed, I think the slate measured 47 1/2" and the cloth measured 49 1/2", I had enough to do it with the stretch but it was difficult. I just finished up with it a couple of weeks ago, I will post the problems I had to go thru in the future with both the Simonis cloth and the $30.00 Simonis instructional dvd. I was a little less than pleased. I maybe wonder if I had problems because I have a Gold Crown and they few and far between, more to come later????????????????????
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The Gold crown is one of the most popular tables. So not sure how they are few and far between? Not sure how only had 2" of cloth to grip for the stretch.
 
fastone371 said:
I wish I had extra cloth when doing my bed, I think the slate measured 47 1/2" and the cloth measured 49 1/2", I had enough to do it with the stretch but it was difficult. I just finished up with it a couple of weeks ago, I will post the problems I had to go thru in the future with both the Simonis cloth and the $30.00 Simonis instructional dvd. I was a little less than pleased. I maybe wonder if I had problems because I have a Gold Crown and they few and far between, more to come later????????????????????
Click to expand...

There's no GC made with a 47 1/2" wide slate, it's either 57" or 52" wide:rolleyes:
 
You are correct Glen, that was my mistake. It was 57 1/2 wide I think, just going from memory, I did not write it down. I considered maybe it was for a Pro-8 but the length was nice, about 4" overhang on each end of table, it would have been about 8" with a Pro-8, I double and triple checked the bag and it was marked 9 ft. I spoke with Josh at Absolute Billiard Service, he told me he would walk me thru any problems I had encountered the best he could over the phone and he told me sometimes they are cut a little narrow, I don't know how often this may or may not happen, it was the first time I have handled a piece of Simonis cloth. I did not cut out the rail cloth, it came shipped to me pre-cut. A question for you Glen if you happen to stumble across this thread again, on the side pocket relief measurement is a Gold Crown considered an antique table??
 
fastone371 said:
I wish I had extra cloth when doing my bed, I think the slate measured 47 1/2" and the cloth measured 49 1/2", I had enough to do it with the stretch but it was difficult. I just finished up with it a couple of weeks ago, I will post the problems I had to go thru in the future with both the Simonis cloth and the $30.00 Simonis instructional dvd. I was a little less than pleased. I maybe wonder if I had problems because I have a Gold Crown and they few and far between, more to come later????????????????????
Click to expand...

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They tried to cut a 9 foot piece of cloth off a 66" wide bolt and did not want to have to cut just rails off the bolt.
66 inches wide roll of cloth from the mill, subtract 18, equals 48 inches... Add 1 half of a inch three times by making the three rail cuts 1 half inch narrower...
48+1-1/2= 491/2 is what you got'
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Enjoy,
The riddler'
 
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fastone371 said:
.... is a Gold Crown considered an antique table??
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In my humble opinion, it's practically an antique but technically, no it's not.

To me, it's considered a 'vintage' table.
Partially because of the (lack of) physical age and partially because of the "modern" technology and design of the Gold Crown compared to everything before it.

But thats just me. :)
 
fastone371 said:
on the side pocket relief measurement is a Gold Crown considered an antique table??
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Not really, the GC1's 2's and early 3's that came with the Brunstone instead of slate have a little less of a side pocket opening, but in general they're almost the same as most all 3 piece slates, but for them pockets I use just a little bit less of a slack measurment, 5/8" on the first side pocket and 1/2" on the second side pocket.
 
As long as we're on the subject of the DVDs, no matter how many times I look at them I could never see exactly how Glen was cutting the extra cloth out of the end of the feather strip area prior to closing the pockets. It would have been nice to have zoomed in there. He tells you what direction to cut but not exactly where to end up and how it should look after. There is a nice view of his back and shoulders though:smile:

Also on the corner pocket lower stretch Glen says to pull it over the corner and staple it but that leaves too much cloth at the facing. A more accurate description is to pull it over a little past the corner and then pull it back toward the center of the facing before stapling it. This leaves and equal pucker on the rail and facing to deal with He's probably done so many he doesn't realize that's what he's actually doing and neither did I until I watched it him several times. It's just a small discrepancy between what he does there and what he says he's doing. Small but quite critical for closing the pocket cleanly. Of course everyone with experience knows this and all the minor details that give a fine outcome but the DVD is supposed to teach those who don't already and just a couple things were a bit unclear.
 
JC said:
As long as we're on the subject of the DVDs, no matter how many times I look at them I could never see exactly how Glen was cutting the extra cloth out of the end of the feather strip area prior to closing the pockets. It would have been nice to have zoomed in there. He tells you what direction to cut but not exactly where to end up and how it should look after. There is a nice view of his back and shoulders though:smile:

Also on the corner pocket lower stretch Glen says to pull it over the corner and staple it but that leaves too much cloth at the facing. A more accurate description is to pull it over a little past the corner and then pull it back toward the center of the facing before stapling it. This leaves and equal pucker on the rail and facing to deal with He's probably done so many he doesn't realize that's what he's actually doing and neither did I until I watched it him several times. It's just a small discrepancy between what he does there and what he says he's doing. Small but quite critical for closing the pocket cleanly. Of course everyone with experience knows this and all the minor details that give a fine outcome but the DVD is supposed to teach those who don't already and just a couple things were a bit unclear.
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I can't comment buddy, I've never watched the DVDs after they were made:o but I'll tell you what, I'll be up in Washington state in a little while, so if you want to come to where I'll be working, I'll give you a first hand look:D
 
realkingcobra said:
I can't comment buddy, I've never watched the DVDs after they were made:o but I'll tell you what, I'll be up in Washington state in a little while, so if you want to come to where I'll be working, I'll give you a first hand look:D
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That's the best offer I've had lately. When is "in a little while" and where are you going to be up there and for how long?

JC
 
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