Advice on shafts with low throw?
- Thread starter Zieglermt
- Start date
just to give you an idea, deflection is one thing, and throw is another thing, then you also have swerve which contribute to the throwing effect too.
deflection doesn't actually take effect unless you hit the cueball hard enough with english for the CB to deflect, if you hit it hard with left english, it will deflect to the right, and vica versa hitting hard with right hand English, makes the cueball deflects to the left.
Now with that english, swerve will take effect, which will actually fixes the line of the cueball (Depending on the power of the shot ofcourse) if you hit right spin, the cueball swerves to the right as its going in the path.
so think about the two previous statements and put them in a picture in your mind.
you hit hard with right spin, cueball deflects to the left, then it swerves slightly to the right, so it kinda corrects itself. but the trick is, knowing how much swerve will take action, and how much deflect (depends on the shaft) will take action.
Also, swerve will be stronger with the softness of the shot, the softer you hit the cueball with spin, the more swerve you will see, also if you raise/elevate your cue a bit from the behind with spin, it will even swerve more.
now throw is the effect that will be seen on the object ball, as oppose to the other two things mentioned above where they will be seen on the cueball, the throw is on object ball, if you hit the cueball with left spin, and you are cutting the object ball to the right, it will even cut thinner (more) to the right, so you have to adjust to this, LD shafts have nothing to do with throw, all shafts will throw depending on speed & how much english you put.
So the point of all this is, you need to practice and have a feel of how much the shot will throw with whatever speed & spin you are using, and after shooting it 1000 times, you will know exactly where to hit depending again on speed and spin of that certain shot.
So at the end I want you to know, that LD shafts help with deflection (Hard shots specifically) LD shafts have nothing to do with swerve or throw, and if I'm mistaken, I hope somebody correct me.
P.S sorry for my poor English, it isn't my 1st language, some of you already know this, but incase I butchered the English language with my long post, I apologise.
deflection doesn't actually take effect unless you hit the cueball hard enough with english for the CB to deflect, if you hit it hard with left english, it will deflect to the right, and vica versa hitting hard with right hand English, makes the cueball deflects to the left.
Now with that english, swerve will take effect, which will actually fixes the line of the cueball (Depending on the power of the shot ofcourse) if you hit right spin, the cueball swerves to the right as its going in the path.
so think about the two previous statements and put them in a picture in your mind.
you hit hard with right spin, cueball deflects to the left, then it swerves slightly to the right, so it kinda corrects itself. but the trick is, knowing how much swerve will take action, and how much deflect (depends on the shaft) will take action.
Also, swerve will be stronger with the softness of the shot, the softer you hit the cueball with spin, the more swerve you will see, also if you raise/elevate your cue a bit from the behind with spin, it will even swerve more.
now throw is the effect that will be seen on the object ball, as oppose to the other two things mentioned above where they will be seen on the cueball, the throw is on object ball, if you hit the cueball with left spin, and you are cutting the object ball to the right, it will even cut thinner (more) to the right, so you have to adjust to this, LD shafts have nothing to do with throw, all shafts will throw depending on speed & how much english you put.
So the point of all this is, you need to practice and have a feel of how much the shot will throw with whatever speed & spin you are using, and after shooting it 1000 times, you will know exactly where to hit depending again on speed and spin of that certain shot.
So at the end I want you to know, that LD shafts help with deflection (Hard shots specifically) LD shafts have nothing to do with swerve or throw, and if I'm mistaken, I hope somebody correct me.
P.S sorry for my poor English, it isn't my 1st language, some of you already know this, but incase I butchered the English language with my long post, I apologise.
Actually, there are some possible logical explanations for why someone can get more spin with an LD shaft. For more info, see:
getting more spin with an LD shaft
Regards,
Dave
Sure, but I think the practical answer is contained in your first line on that page:
"The short answer is: No."
pj
chgo
I think the very first post in response to the topic answered the question perfectly.
Most LD shafts typically have smaller diameter ferrules/tips than non-LD shafts.
Visually, a person shooting with a LD shaft may be more comfortable in placing the tip farther outside than they would with a non-LD shaft. This could provide more spin to the cue ball.
I agree, to reduce spin, hit the cue ball closer to the vertical axis.
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Purple ring represents smaller diameter tip. The White ring represents a 13MM tip. If you align the outer edge of the tips, the smaller tip will be contacting the cue ball slightly further from the vertical axis of the cue ball.
JoeyA
Visually, a person shooting with a LD shaft may be more comfortable in placing the tip farther outside than they would with a non-LD shaft. This could provide more spin to the cue ball.
I agree, to reduce spin, hit the cue ball closer to the vertical axis.
Purple ring represents smaller diameter tip. The White ring represents a 13MM tip. If you align the outer edge of the tips, the smaller tip will be contacting the cue ball slightly further from the vertical axis of the cue ball.
JoeyA
Hey guys, just curious if anyone could provide me with info about aftermarket shafts. Specifically, I am looking for a LD shaft that hits very solid, is radially consistent, around the 12.75-13.2mm range, and most importantly doesnt impart more spin than a 13mm solid maple cue would.:thumbup:
I am selling my Predator Z 2 sneaky due to it's weak long range hit and mainly because it imparts way way too much spin on the cueball causing increased throw. I use a lot of spin in my game. In fact I regularly run out the rack spinning the cueball to throw the obj ball every single shot even when I dont need to. That's just the way my playstyle is I guess. I think it makes it easier to pocket balls and get position. I wish I could afford a custom cue but I'm just a poor college kid. If any of you guys could help me out with some suggestions I'd appreciate it so much.
I've played with a 314, z2, meucci black dot, Gcore, poison, and lucasi zeroflex and liked the solid feel of the lucasi the most. I've been interested in Mcdermott i-2 shafts because it sounds like they are more focused on a solid hit than LD. A solid hit and low throw level is more important to me than ultra low deflection. So if anyone has played with an I-2 as of recently please let me know your thoughts thank you
Well I have owned the I1, I2, and I3 and I jumped ship from those to go to Ob shafts. If I were you I would go for Predator or OB
Agreed. That is one of the several explanations offered on the getting more spin with an LD shaft resource page. This is especially true if one uses "tips of english" to characterize how much spin one applies. Tip shape can also have an effect as shown on the tip size and shape effects resource page.
Regards,
Dave
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I tested them, and we did. Same shot, different shafts, over 5 tries each shot, the LD shafts enables us to get a diamond or so further down table with spin.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5054926&postcount=14
With a regular shaft me and a friend consistently hit the rail 1 to 1.5 diamond from the corner pocket. With a LD shaft we got to lower than 1 diamond each time, and the most spin we got was with a LD shaft with a laminated tip. This was both with a Predator 314-2 with and a Players HXT, and we used two different regular shafts, a Ned Morris and a Mike Webb, mine had laminated tip his has a regular.
Least action was regular shaft with regular tip, then regular shaft with layered tip, then LD shaft regular tip and most action by a diamond or more was a LD shaft with layered tip.
We did this quite a few times to make sure we were not just hitting it good or bad, our results were consistent.
This is true of course, but to avoid being misleading I think it's important to point out that any spin differences are not due to differences in the capabilities of the cues themselves*, but to possible differences in how they're perceived and used, and that all cues can hit the same spots on the CB and can therefore produce the same amounts of spin.
pj
chgo
*Except for the slightly (2-3%) greater "effective tip offset" with low-squirt cues.
I don't doubt your word, but I'm skeptical of your testing methods - because I've done scores of shots with dozens of shafts/tips and have never found a significant difference between any of them - if I control the test variables.
For the test to be meaningful you have to be able to objectively verify that "all things are equal" for every shot - and that takes a little planning and care, but can be done without special equipment. Here's the test I suggest (it's been posted a few times before):
pj
chgo
For those of you unsure what I am talking about, refer to spin induced throw in Doc Dave's link above^. For those of you posting shaft ideas thank you for providing me with suggestions instead of questioning my technique, which I can assure you is fairly sound. Not to sound arrogant, but I know all about the difference between spin, throw, swerve and squirt, but thanks anyway guys.
Thank you sir that Mezz hybrid alpha 12.8mm is pretty much exactly what I am looking for, but dang is it expensive haha thanks for actually taking time to read man I really do appreciate it. If anyone has anything to compare against these suggestions I'd certainly like to hear it.
If I use 50% english with both shafts to generate the maximum throw effect as seen on dr dave's youtube page, yes it does, but thanks for playing man you've been a huge help
Thank you for your input man. I was already aware of everything you stated, but maybe some novices might stumble across this thread and learn something, so thanks for your efforts. Ld shafts may actually not play a factor in generating more spin but I know first hand that it is easier to generate maximum spin with a narrower tip and my predator can generate more spin induced throw and way more easily, which I actually dont like. That's all I am saying.
I'm pretty sure that if you tested carefully you'd find otherwise, as I have. This stuff is notoriously easy to misinterpret without some objective measurement. Up to you, of course.If I use 50% english with both shafts to generate the maximum throw effect as seen on dr dave's youtube page, yes it does, but thanks for playing man you've been a huge help
pj
chgo
Challenge accepted. I will set up a 1/4 ball, 1/2 ball, and 3/4 ball cut shot 1 diamond by 1 diamond away from a corner pocket I will place a chalk mark where I place the cue ball and a chalk mark in front of the obj ball where I need to aim. I will do 5 shots each time at the same speed, same follow through, and same english tip percentage. I will also clean the cue ball every time. My prediction is a 5 degree avg. difference so we will see.