JB vs Lou - Let's Get It On

Allen Brown said:

John, just travel to Lou and play on a Diamond and not a GC. Sell a ton of JB cases at a deeply discounted rate so Lou will have to look at them every time he goes to play at the pool hall and be reminded that you have a very successful business. Even if he wins he can't take your business from you because your cases sell themselves.

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Thank you. Maybe someday in the future. There are already two very good dealers in the St. Louis area selling our cases so we are covered there.

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HawaiianEye said:

See highlighted above. Lou "doesn't know" if he can beat John, but John "thinks" he can beat Lou.

John is "willing" to bet money he is CORRECT! Lou is NOT WILLING to bet money to find out whether he is right or wrong.

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Good point. Even though the smart money thinks Lou is stealing Lou himself is scared.

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jb, when you were in China you were just a bully on the internet. Now you are here, bullying Lou to play. It looks like highrolling to me.

Ok.

Lou plays better than you, jb, but you are a pain.

Pool is supposed to be fun. I wouldn't play you either, if I were Lou.

Make cases, play pool, have a great life, but stop the insanity.

I admit to not knowing all the "rules" to gambling and making games but...wouldn't it be John and not Lou who should be acquiescing?
Speaking for myself, if I flew to NJ to play John under mostly his conditions the first time and won then I certainly wouldn't feel the need to bend to his conditions for a rematch.
I guess I just don't understand but this just doesn't seem logical to me.

Pleinairrider said:

I dont have a dog in this fight. I simply love this shit....

Here's what I dont get: If I know I can beat a player, have taken his money before and that player challenges me again for higher stakes, why wouln't I jump at the challenge? Especially for 20k!

Lou is 20k chump change to you? Are you millionaire? Are you afraid of planes or GC's? If you are rich, you can donate it to charity, or your grandchildren...something!

I doens't make sense - unless you're (Back to the Future refernce) "Chicken."

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Let's just say I'm very comfortable in my retirement and don't need to go chasing JB money. I know that is not the old school pool player "get that money" way of thinking but I have the luxury of doing things thataway.

Besides, John is the one who desperately wants a rematch. He has a lot of things to prove to himself and others, starting with proving he can actually play and not put the high karate mongo chicken wing stroke on every other shot AND that he can play a credible game of 1pocket without an open level player whispering in his ear.

Me, I got nothin' to prove.

Showed up last time, piled $25,000 cash on the table (bets John wouldn't accept despite months of woofing that he would), played OK sans chicken wing or dog, and won the dough. And frankly the whole non-negotiable my way thing sticks in my craw after my crew and I flew out to New Jersey to accommodate him the last time we played. Now he can come to me or there's no match and I will retire the belt, undefeated by JB for the cash, F-O-R-E-V-E-R.

How do you like them apples, John?

Lou Figueroa

Koop said:

I admit to not knowing all the "rules" to gambling and making games but...wouldn't it be John and not Lou who should be acquiescing?
Speaking for myself, if I flew to NJ to play John under mostly his conditions the first time and won then I certainly wouldn't feel the need to bend to his conditions for a rematch.
I guess I just don't understand but this just doesn't seem logical to me.

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What I don't get is the open challenge.
If you want to play, a PM would do.
Grnadstanding does not help the cause.

JohnnyP said:

Ok.

Lou plays better than you, jb, but you are a pain.

Pool is supposed to be fun. I wouldn't play you either, if I were Lou.

Make cases, play pool, have a great life, but stop the insanity.

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What JohnnyP said.

Lou Figueroa
word

JB Cases said:

Good point. Even though the smart money thinks Lou is stealing Lou himself is scared.

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Lou's ego couldn't handle losing to anyone... he might end up in a mental hospital if you happened to get lucky and beat him.

if Lou had beat you 9-0 the last time, and he was 1000% sure you were totally helpless, i think there would be a stronger possibility of a rematch.

lfigueroa said:

Let's just say I'm very comfortable in my retirement and don't need to go chasing JB money. I know that is not the old school pool player "get that money" way of thinking but I have the luxury of doing things thataway.

Besides, John is the one who desperately wants a rematch. He has a lot of things to prove to himself and others, starting with proving he can actually play and not put the high karate mongo chicken wing stroke on every other shot AND that he can play a credible game of 1pocket without an open level player whispering in his ear.

Me, I got nothin' to prove.

Showed up last time, piled $25,000 cash on the table (bets John wouldn't accept despite months of woofing that he would), played OK sans chicken wing or dog, and won the dough. And frankly the whole non-negotiable my way thing sticks in my craw after my crew and I flew out to New Jersey to accommodate him the last time we played. Now he can come to me or there's no match and I will retire the belt, undefeated by JB for the cash, F-O-R-E-V-E-R.

How do you like them apples, John?

Lou Figueroa

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I just can't for the life of me understand how anyone with half a brain would see it any other way ,, personally I'd go to the grave with the win before I would bow down to any JB demands ,, doing such is giving up your man card ,
Don't budge ,

1

TATE said:

I am attempting to mediate this. The goal in any mediation is simply to try to get the parties to agree to something. Who's right, who's wrong - none of that matters and in fact, these stances work against the process. Facts don't matter. Often a mediator has to play both sides and juggle the facts. The goal is to nudge the parties to an agreement using any means available.
Let's face it, when people take a stance like "I'm right, they're wrong" you're not going to get anywhere. Even if something is morally right or factual, it works against the process of coming to an agreement that both parties love and/or hate equally.
Not long ago, I had to hire a professional mediator for one day. The cost? $6,000. She was able to bring both parties to the table, and bring their ludicrous, far apart demands to a settlement- she was incredible and well worth the money. She was able to do this because it was in everybody's interest to settle up but she used every trick in the book to make that happen. She shuttled from one room to another for 8 hours until she arrived at a settlement. I honestly didn't think it would happen.
My personal opinion doesn't count. FYI my personal opinion is, matching up like this over an internet argument was a crazy notion in the first place and I stated that in a previous thread. Mediators are not immune to their personal feelings. I am sympathetic to the fact that John lost 10K. For that, I believe he has the right to ask for some reasonable concessions, although the way he placed his non-negotiable challenge was doomed to failure if he really wanted to play.
John and Lou do not need to play. They do not need to settle. They either want to play or they don't. My feeling is, at this point, they don't seem to want to come to an agreement. So be it.

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How did you suddenly get appointed or hired as the big time mediator around here?

lfigueroa said:

Let's just say I'm very comfortable in my retirement and don't need to go chasing JB money. I know that is not the old school pool player "get that money" way of thinking but I have the luxury of doing things thataway.

Besides, John is the one who desperately wants a rematch. He has a lot of things to prove to himself and others, starting with proving he can actually play and not put the high karate mongo chicken wing stroke on every other shot AND that he can play a credible game of 1pocket without an open level player whispering in his ear.

Me, I got nothin' to prove.

Showed up last time, piled $25,000 cash on the table (bets John wouldn't accept despite months of woofing that he would), played OK sans chicken wing or dog, and won the dough. And frankly the whole non-negotiable my way thing sticks in my craw after my crew and I flew out to New Jersey to accommodate him the last time we played. Now he can come to me or there's no match and I will retire the belt, undefeated by JB for the cash, F-O-R-E-V-E-R.

How do you like them apples, John?

Lou Figueroa

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I think that most people would describe your actions as nitty. I also think you don't understand the word "desperately". If I were desperate then I would have already come to St. Louis to play you.

As it is I have decided to buy a very nice embroidery machine and a new laser engraver. This will benefit my family and myself much more than another ego-fest between you and I.

You seem to think that you matter to me. You don't. I played like a donkey and you barely beat me. Now you're crowing about it like a six year old as if you think your words somehow hurt me. They don't.

You have two more days to find some heart. I am sure you didn't make enough money last time to buy some.

JohnnyP said:

Ok.

Lou plays better than you, jb, but you are a pain.

Pool is supposed to be fun. I wouldn't play you either, if I were Lou.

Make cases, play pool, have a great life, but stop the insanity.

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A pain? How so?

I had fun when I played. I sat down when it was Lou's shot and was polite the whole time.

The commentators were quite clear on that.

If Lou didn't have fun then that was his problem. I did nothing to prevent him from it.

I have been away for a while so forgive me if I don't remember this correctly but haven't you posted plenty of stories about how you used to hustle people and how much you enjoy winning money playing pool? If so then how is it not fun to beat someone out of 10K? Lou's report on it indicated he enjoyed it very much iirc.

Yeah, I am a pain alright....I posted a simple challenge to play a guy for $20,000. How awful of me.

Kickin' Chicken said:

I can't answer for most but as for TATE, he did it by being a valuable contributor for a very long time here and as a member who has consistently shown kindness and amazing generosity in helping other az members in need.
He has earned a rep that is beyond reproach.
In a word, TATE is a mensch.
A shoo-in for big-time mediator, he was. :thumbup:
best,
brian kc

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Oh silly me. I had no idea I was addressing royalty.
I must repent for sinning against his lordship.

Picture of an Unnamed "Mediator" after a deal.

JohnnyP said:

jb, when you were in China you were just a bully on the internet. Now you are here, bullying Lou to play. It looks like highrolling to me.

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Oh stop. It wasn't highrolling when Lou's "crew" asked me to play for $20,000 on one pocket.org AFTER I said many times I considered Lou the better player but I would still play him for $100 a game.

Gee, say you will play a better player for $100 a game and he comes over the top asking to play for $20,000 and that's NOT highrolling?

But I lose $10,000 to that "better" player and ask to double the bet and don't ask for any weight and that's suddenly high rolling?

I guess I haven't learned anything about the terminology of pool gambling in the 35 years I have been gambling on pool.

And bully? That's equally rich.

Lou comes out on AZB and calls me a "two-bit coward" for ONLY wanting to bet $10,000 AFTER his "crew" challenged me for 20k. And he does this TWO YEARS later to antagonize me on AZB. He has repeatedly called me all sorts of names over the years, even in this thread. He calls Stan Shuffet a con artist and a snake oil salesman and jumped into just about every CTE thread to knock him and anyone who has ever claimed to have success with that aiming method.

So, respectfully, you and I have never had any sort of problem that I can remember and I have always enjoyed your stories of pool back in the day and your greyhound stories. Please don't get in the middle of this without understanding the history between Lou and myself. Back on Rec.Sport.Billiard Lou was a major antagonist frequently saying things to people that would leave the mods here no choice but to ban him. If anyone is an internet bully it was him then and the only reason he is not as brazen now is because he knows how to stay within the rules on a moderated site.

On another site, which allows flame wars he does not dare to try this nonsense because he gets his ass handed to him every time he tries to post his crap.

JoeyInCali said:

What I don't get is the open challenge.
If you want to play, a PM would do.
Grnadstanding does not help the cause.

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Lou made the challenge public last time so it's public now.

What cause? This isn't the Red Cross. I posted easy terms. I don't HAVE to play.

JB Cases said:

I think that most people would describe your actions as nitty. I also think you don't understand the word "desperately". If I were desperate then I would have already come to St. Louis to play you.

As it is I have decided to buy a very nice embroidery machine and a new laser engraver. This will benefit my family and myself much more than another ego-fest between you and I.

You seem to think that you matter to me. You don't. I played like a donkey and you barely beat me. Now you're crowing about it like a six year old as if you think your words somehow hurt me. They don't.

You have two more days to find some heart. I am sure you didn't make enough money last time to buy some.

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You are delusional. Most people here are backing my position with just few going the old school route saying I'm nuts to not go to OK and take you off.

Now you contradict yourself saying you've decide to buy a new machine while still saying I have two days to decide. Take your two days and shove them where the sun don't shine.

Lou Figueroa