Jay Helfert resigned as Tourney Director at the US Open

FranCrimi said:
So then leave it up to the players. Call a meeting ask for an anonymous vote. Each player gets a piece of paper and can write one of three things:

1.) Redraw: Add the extra player, redraw and use a 256 player chart.

2.) Extra match: Leave the draw alone and have the player draw into an extra match (which is the same as a 256 player chart without the redraw)

3.) No change. Alan is out and everything stays the same.

There were options. Jay opted to leave.
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And how is that fair to all the other players who didn't get in before the 128 player cutoff? Why make an exception for anyone (and we are talking about some serious pretzel twisting to accommodate 1 player), regardless of who that player is? I like Allan. A lot. He even spoke of me, by name, multiple times during his straight pool hall of fame induction speech this summer. So it pains me to say that he was wrong in his part of all of this.
 
FranCrimi said:
So then leave it up to the players. Call a meeting ask for an anonymous vote. Each player gets a piece of paper and can write one of three things:

1.) Redraw: Add the extra player, redraw and use a 256 player chart.

2.) Extra match: Leave the draw alone and have the player draw into an extra match (which is the same as a 256 player chart without the redraw)

3.) No change. Alan is out and everything stays the same.

There were options. Jay opted to leave.
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What are you smoking, I think I need some.

The field was set, brackets posted. There was a waiting list. The player inserted was not even on the top of said list.
 
Jeez, It's not like they were a player short and had to fill a spot.
The Field was full , the draw was already done and the brackets posted.
They told a confirmed player before his match that they wanted him to drop out so that Allen Hopkins could take his place.

What's wrong with the above scenario :eek:
 
The tournament director has to protect the field, Jay did the absolute right thing because it was a no win situation with Barry. Barry showed he has no integrity what so ever and has no problems with cheating the entire field, he proven that time and time again. It surprises me that Allan Hopkins would go along with it knowing that someone in the field was being bought out for his gain, that not something I would expect from a HOF inductee.
 
pocket said:
What are you smoking, I think I need some.

The field was set, brackets posted. There was a waiting list. The player inserted was not even on the top of said list.
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I agree 100%.

Fran please remember, puff, puff, past.

Since my friend JAM referred to me as Brutus.....I will add;

"Any excuse will serve a tyrant."

Ken
 
Ken_4fun said:
I agree 100%.

Fran please remember, puff, puff, past.

Since my friend JAM referred to me as Brutus.....I will add;

"Any excuse will serve a tyrant."

Ken
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And those men who prohibited women from entering pool rooms and competing in tournaments must have a lot of excuses today.:wink:
 

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Here is what pool's Fourth Estate says: As for the "controversy" concerning the resignation of Jay Helfert as TD, both Helfert and Behrman found themselves between a rock and a hard place and both did what they felt they had to do. Helfert felt he could not alter the chart after the players meeting as that is the long custom in tournaments and Behrman felt compelled to honor the commitment he had made to his two-time past champion Allen Hopkins. Behrman found a player who was happy to vacate his spot to honor Hopkins and the event. But that is all a sideshow to the action on the tables and everyone is now settled in to concentrate on the play and ignore the disagreement between the owner of the event and his original Tournament Director. Scott Smith has taken over those duties and while the presence of Mr. Helfert will be missed the show will still go on. After all, when the quarterback is injured you do not stop the game, you put in another quarterback. So let's not let a business disagreement distract us from what is really important at the Open, the play upon the tables.
 
JAM said:
Here is what pool's Fourth Estate says: As for the "controversy" concerning the resignation of Jay Helfert as TD, both Helfert and Behrman found themselves between a rock and a hard place and both did what they felt they had to do. Helfert felt he could not alter the chart after the players meeting as that is the long custom in tournaments and Behrman felt compelled to honor the commitment he had made to his two-time past champion Allen Hopkins. Behrman found a player who was happy to vacate his spot to honor Hopkins and the event. But that is all a sideshow to the action on the tables and everyone is now settled in to concentrate on the play and ignore the disagreement between the owner of the event and his original Tournament Director. Scott Smith has taken over those duties and while the presence of Mr. Helfert will be missed the show will still go on. After all, when the quarterback is injured you do not stop the game, you put in another quarterback. So let's not let a business disagreement distract us from what is really important at the Open, the play upon the tables.
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Jenny, viewed in a vacuum, as a one time misstep- this scenario MIGHT be forgivable, but only if all involved were fairly new to the process. NONE OF THAT IS THE CASE HERE. BB has the worst running history of still active tournaments in the US. We can't even say that Allan should know better. We already know that Hopkins knows better. Jay does too, which makes his reaction to this the only honorable one.
 
JAM - what response did you expect? Barry to say he was out of line and wrong for forcing Hopkins into the tourney? Maybe we will hear Barry say he is wrong for bouncing checks and paying players late - oh wait. That will never happen either.

I have an idea - next year lets have it setup with 5 players willing to back out. Then SVB can come in late, look over the board and see where he would have the easiest draw. He can swap out for one of the players and the tourney can go on. I'm sure no one will mind.
 
What's kind of a bummer is that there's more colloquy on this pool forum about this topic than there is about the competition and action at the Open going on right now at the time of this writing. Sheesh!

Where's all the threads about who beat who and how strong this one played? They pale in comparison to this thread about Jay resigning. :(
 
JAM said:
What's kind of a bummer is that there's more colloquy on this pool forum about this topic than there is about the competition and action at the Open going on right now at the time of this writing. Sheesh!

Where's all the threads about who beat who and how strong this one played? They pale in comparison to this thread about Jay resigning. :(
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I suspect some of this is due to the fact that it is pay per view, and only a portion of AZB'rs have purchased the streams and are able to watch the matches. Therefore we are left to fight over crumbs.

Just a thought.

Still it is disheartening to see continued organizational discord in our open event.
 
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JAM said:
Here is what pool's Fourth Estate says: As for the "controversy" concerning the resignation of Jay Helfert as TD, both Helfert and Behrman found themselves between a rock and a hard place and both did what they felt they had to do. Helfert felt he could not alter the chart after the players meeting as that is the long custom in tournaments and Behrman felt compelled to honor the commitment he had made to his two-time past champion Allen Hopkins. Behrman found a player who was happy to vacate his spot to honor Hopkins and the event. But that is all a sideshow to the action on the tables and everyone is now settled in to concentrate on the play and ignore the disagreement between the owner of the event and his original Tournament Director. Scott Smith has taken over those duties and while the presence of Mr. Helfert will be missed the show will still go on. After all, when the quarterback is injured you do not stop the game, you put in another quarterback. So let's not let a business disagreement distract us from what is really important at the Open, the play upon the tables.
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We all love the game. However - At the moment, I am very, very happy that I have a steady job and do not depend on people like Mr. Behrman to earn my daily money at tournaments that are handled like that.

I bow my head to Mr. Jay Helfert. He shows us the other side of the game: Credability and honesty are still possible.

It is true: The game at the tables will be interesting and thrilling, but still there remains a bitter taste ...
 
JAM said:
What's kind of a bummer is that there's more colloquy on this pool forum about this topic than there is about the competition and action at the Open going on right now at the time of this writing. Sheesh!

Where's all the threads about who beat who and how strong this one played? They pale in comparison to this thread about Jay resigning. :(
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Usually misdirection and obfuscation is much more subtle. "There's nothing to see here, move along folks" is only applicable in a situation where the benifit of the doubt is deserved. That doesn't apply to BB. every year, the US open receives a black eye. And every year the sucker punch is thrown by Barry, himself.

IMO, you should stop defending the indefensible. I understand you're loyal. But being completely partisan while being wrong is the only way corruption can continue. You're too smart for that, IMO.
 
NYC cue dude said:
Usually misdirection and obfuscation is much more subtle. "There's nothing to see here, move along folks" is only applicable in a situation where the benifit of the doubt is deserved. That doesn't apply to BB. every year, the US open receives a black eye. And every year the sucker punch is thrown by Barry, himself.

IMO, you should stop defending the indefensible. I understand you're loyal. But being completely partisan while being wrong is the only way corruption can continue. You're too smart for that, IMO.
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I'm not defending. It doesn't have anything to do with being loyal.

I personally do believe that none of us on this thread, except Jay, knows the absolute truth of what transpired. We're passing along judgments and opinions, but they are based on supposition.

Personally, if the guy who paid his entry fee wants to give it up to Allen, he should be able to give it to whoever he feels like. It's his dough, and it's his spot. I understand the chart was drawn, but things like this happen in tournaments all the time, ESPECIALLY pool.

You want to rake somebody over the fires about running tournaments, how about Charlie Williams changing the times on charts. He did what he had to do, I guess, but it doesn't mean everybody is going to like it.
 
So why aren't people upset that Pat Fleming made it a TV match also?


Can't you make up all sorts scenarios, like:

Isn't it Jay Helferts fault that Alan was overlooked since he was the Tournament Director?

Isn't it Pat Flemings fault since he was in charge of all the entries?

Isn't it the fault of the player that willingly gave up his spot?


In the end it's a little too much drama over not a whole lot in the big scheme of things. It's not like this hasn't happened before at tons of tournaments. You come to play...and you play.

What would have been wrong with making an announcement first, "Attention to all players, we made a mistake and a former champion Allen Hopkins was supposed to have an entry that was overlooked, is someone willing to give up their spot?" And take it from there.

If Efren showed up and said "Hey, I thought I was in?" then what?
 
JAM said:
What's kind of a bummer is that there's more colloquy on this pool forum about this topic than there is about the competition and action at the Open going on right now at the time of this writing. Sheesh!

Where's all the threads about who beat who and how strong this one played? They pale in comparison to this thread about Jay resigning. :(
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Ok I'll begin by saying that match last night between SVB and R. Gomez was EPIC! It was an extremely well played match by both players with Shane showing that champions heart to close out Gomez 11-9. What a match!! World class at its finest
 
markgw said:
Ok I'll begin by saying that match last night between SVB and R. Gomez was EPIC! It was an extremely well played match by both players with Shane showing that champions heart to close out Gomez 11-9. What a match!! World class at its finest
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Oh, man, I missed it. That must have been epic!

Shane is quite comfortable here in Virginia, and he's going to be the man to beat.

Lots of strong players on the B side of the charts too. :)
 
markgw said:
Ok I'll begin by saying that match last night between SVB and R. Gomez was EPIC! It was an extremely well played match by both players with Shane showing that champions heart to close out Gomez 11-9. What a match!! World class at its finest
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JAM said:
Oh, man, I missed it. That must have been epic!

Shane is quite comfortable here in Virginia, and he's going to be the man to beat.

Lots of strong players on the B side of the charts too. :)
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Must have been a great match 11-9. You should start a new thread with this however to inspire some discussion on the matches - GO USA
 
JAM said:
Oh, man, I missed it. That must have been epic!

Shane is quite comfortable here in Virginia, and he's going to be the man to beat.

Lots of strong players on the B side of the charts too. :)
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Tonight will be another barn burner with SVB vs J. Bergman on the feature table! Bergman is playing very well so this should be very exciting. It will be the final match of the night at 11 PM EST...
 
markgw said:
Tonight will be another barn burner with SVB vs J. Bergman on the feature table! Bergman is playing very well so this should be very exciting. It will be the final match of the night at 11 PM EST...
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Yeah, for sure. Those two will be playing hard. Bergman has some seasoning in him now, so he's going to give Shane a fight to the finish.
 
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