How do you know you need an Aiming System?

Low500 said:

I disagree to a point.
The Ghost is a very formidable opponent on the big table. The player who can beat him 5-6 games in a row at 9-Ball is hitting them pretty good, in my opinion. Trying to beat him at 8-Ball is sheer torment.
Yes, it is true that it's all offense and with no practice throwing safeties at someone or getting out of safeties or traps.
On the other hand, some people like myself just enjoy seeing the balls go into the pockets without having to stand there bored to death while the other guy shoots. Listening to his mouth isn't much fun either. (The Ghost never says a word :wink
As for getting used to this 'pressure' thing, there is usually someone standing around who will be glad to make wagers (and give pretty good odds too) that the Ghost wins. That's good pressure and will usually attract a crowd of the usual railbirds who'll have their things to say as well.
Pool costs are up there. I'd prefer to enjoy myself without the "excitement" (says who?)....of dealing with someone else at the table with me. UNLESS...I choose to do otherwise.
Being hustled to 'play some cheap' by every swindler and derelict in a pool room annoys me greatly. But a poolroom is just that and nothing more...always has been that way and always will be that way. It is what it is.
Just my opinion...not world shaking at all

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Playing the ghost provides a good evaluation of your current offensive skills. But for the player looking to improve, simply keeping score against a non-existent opponent that scratches on every break is not an effective learning session. Playing a better player, or watching a match between better players can be a much better benefit for players looking to reach that next skill level.

If you insist on playing the ghost and calling it practice, at least video yourself or take notes on bad shots/positions. You can even incorporate safety play. If you hook/snooker the ghost, try to get a good hit playing as your imaginary opponent. If your safety results in leaving an open shot, you lose that game. The feedback you'll get from this style of playing the ghost will provide greater opportunity for improving your game.

A pro-level player can typically run out with a ball-in-hand after every​ break. Watching this can help you see the proper way to play shapes, but without defensive strategy your're not going to learn much of anything else. The best way to learn all aspects of the game is to play against another player, better or worse than yourself. Pay attention to the good things better players do, and recognize the bad things lesser skilled players do. Dealing with a loud mouth and/or attitude is a lesson in itself also.

BC21 said:

Playing the ghost provides a good evaluation of your current offensive skills. But for the player looking to improve, simply keeping score against a non-existent opponent that scratches on every break is not an effective learning session. Playing a better player, or watching a match between better players can be a much better benefit for players looking to reach that next skill level.
If you insist on playing the ghost and calling it practice, at least video yourself or take notes on bad shots/positions. You can even incorporate safety play. If you hook/snooker the ghost, try to get a good hit playing as your imaginary opponent. If your safety results in leaving an open shot, you lose that game. The feedback you'll get from this style of playing the ghost will provide greater opportunity for improving your game.
A pro-level player can typically run out with a ball-in-hand after every​ break. Watching this can help you see the proper way to play shapes, but without defensive strategy your're not going to learn much of anything else. The best way to learn all aspects of the game is to play against another player, better or worse than yourself. Pay attention to the good things better players do, and recognize the bad things lesser skilled players do. Dealing with a loud mouth and/or attitude is a lesson in itself also.

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*Aiming Conversation How do you aim? How should everyone else aim? Argue to your heart's content*.....subtitle of this area.
My argument: You are wrong on most all counts and not qualified to give advice, in my opinion. You go your way and I will go mine. I do not need your preaching.

Personally, I do not care to play for funsies. To me, that's like playing poker for funsies with every swinging dick at the table drawing to an inside straight every hand.

Playing for money -- an amount that will sting, not kill if you lose -- tests your mettle and gives you a more accurate reading of where you stand as a pool player. (It will also put a spring in your step if you prevail.) If you're playing for funsies, well then, you're going to swing at those crazy ass shots. But if you're playing for money, chances are you're going to more carefully consider your options and some of those long straight-ins that you'd normally whack in with gay abandon will not look quite so inviting. We have all seen the "A player" who turns into a "C player" when gambling. So then: is he truly an A player or really a C? The money tells the tale.

IOWs you need to be able to do, what you *think* you can do, under pressure and a cash bet is a handy way to create that pressure.

Lou Figueroa

BC21 said:

Playing a better player, or watching a match between better players can be a much better benefit for players looking to reach that next skill level.

IF and only IF they know what to look for. I don't think enough can be said about proper angles on EACH shot as well as seeing the routes and options for every ball on the table from beginning to end.

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I think some of the best practice can come from one full week of breaking the rack over and over and NEVER shooting at a ball!

Either let the CB stay where it is after the break or go ahead and move it as BIH to the lowest number ball on the table and try to envision the runout with all the angles that are best to get from not just one ball to another, but from one ball to the next 3 or 4.

Then start hitting balls by playing 3 ball to see the best runout pattern.

Then 4 balls...then 5 ballsl...then 6 balls...then 7 balls...then 8 balls...and finally 9 balls.

The mind and imagination has to be trained first. If you can't see it happening in the mind's eye before you pull the first trigger, it's good luck Charlie the rest of the way.

lfigueroa said:

Personally, I do not care to play for funsies. To me, that's like playing poker for funsies with every swinging dick at the table drawing to an inside straight every hand.

Playing for money -- an amount that will sting, not kill if you lose -- tests your mettle and gives you a more accurate reading of were you stand as a pool player. (It will also put a spring in your step if you prevail.) If you're playing for funsies, well then, you're going to swing at those crazy ass shots. But if you're playing for money, chances are you're going to more carefully consider your options and some of those long straight-ins that you'd normally whack in with gay abandon will not look quite so inviting. We have all seen the "A player" who turns into a "C player" when gambling. So then: is he truly an A player or really a C? The money tells the tale.

IOWs you need to be able to do, what you *think* you can do, under pressure and a cash bet is a handy way to create that pressure.

Lou Figueroa

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Yup, that was my point. Learning how to do things is for practice. Learning when to do them is playing.

denwhit said:

Like my gambling golf buddy used to say: " I'll play anybody for any amount (he called money units) if the bet is fair". That was easy because most people have handicaps in golf and his was +4. How do two strangers, to each other, make a "fair and even" bet in pool? Like I've said before; when I used to play pool for money, back when I had none, my talent was instantly recognizing who was better and I moved to another table. I have zero interest in giving a better player my money unless I can justify it as a cheap lesson. I'll play SVB for $20 in races to 9 just for the lessons and getting to watch a master up close.

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Yet, you have no problem giving your money away (supposedly) once or twice a week to a local guy who you've NEVER yet beaten even once when you posted this.
You have no second thoughts about losing because he "can use the money". Why not give him more money to cut your lawn and wash the cars on top of it?

I do venture down to a bar that has one 9' Diamond with 4.25' pockets and 7-7' Diamonds also with tight pockets. There is a local professional that works there for the free pool and I play him once or twice a week. I know his only income is from tournament winnings and gambling so I play him races to 7 for $10. He gives me all the breaks and then ball in hand. I did beat him on one of the seven footers because I can run out starting with BiH (about 60% of the time). Then we move to the 9' table and he always wins those races. I keep playing him because watching him shoot is a form of lesson and I like the guy and know he can use the money. Sometimes I can run out on the 9' but usually I'll mess up shape and leave myself too tough or just out right miss a ball and of course he'll run out. My safeties are almost up to his and if the shot or shape is too tough I'll play a safety. Have not beat him on the 9' yet but we just started doing this about a month ago.


There isn't a post you make that doesn't have more holes in it than 2 dozen donuts coming fresh out of the oven and just scream, BULLSHIT!!

SpiderWebComm said:

I think some of the best practice can come from one full week of breaking the rack over and over and NEVER shooting at a ball!

Either let the CB stay where it is after the break or go ahead and move it as BIH to the lowest number ball on the table and try to envision the runout with all the angles that are best to get from not just one ball to another, but from one ball to the next 3 or 4.

Then start hitting balls by playing 3 ball to see the best runout pattern.

Then 4 balls...then 5 ballsl...then 6 balls...then 7 balls...then 8 balls...and finally 9 balls.

The mind and imagination has to be trained first. If you can't see it happening in the mind's eye before you pull the first trigger, it's good luck Charlie the rest of the way.

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Great advice. Much better learning potential starting with 3 balls and then working up from there. Knowing the basics for shape, like staying on the correct side of the shot line and approaching the next ball appropriately, etc., is a must. Plenty of good books on that, or plenty of good players to learn it from simply by watching them play. The ghost won't show you anything. Lol. It only gives you feedback on your current limitations.

Anyone of the opinion that nothing can be learned from playing both stronger and weaker opponents, well, I would certainly have to say that that person's opinion is out of touch with the reality and process of learning.

Playing the ghost with a full rack of 9 or 10 balls is a good way to recognize your current skill level and limitations as far as running balls. But if all you do is keep a score of wins and losses, you're really not discovering much about your game. What's your average run? If I break and scratch, can you take ball in hand and run out 8 or 9 balls? Or do you average 4 to 6, only running 8 or 9 less than 1 out of 10 racks? Knowing this particular stat about your own game will allow you to make better decisions and win more games. The more you play the better you get, and soon you'll be running 3 or 4 racks out of 10, then 5, and so on.

You could ignore your current skill level/limitations and just play ballzout every time you get a ball in hand. And when you sell out the rack, as will inevitably happen, you can watch your opponent clean up those last 2 or 3 balls, and you can pretend he's an imaginary player (ghost) if it makes you feel better. He won't care, as long as you keep playing like a donkey.

denwhit said:

By the way, I have to guess you are the one I offended. Hard to believe you could be "offended" with the harsh critical stuff you post almost every post. But, maybe under the toughness, you're sensitive?

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I guess you don't know the rules about name calling. Hopefully, you do it again.

Bye-bye.

Denwhit opines: "The local guy I play is a professional and the money I lose to him is like a cheap lesson just exactly as if I was playing SVB. What can't you understand?"

First of all, I don't think SVB would waste his time playing a struggling newbie to pool for cheap sets when he could get involved for much more with other pros.

He might consider charging you $200 an hour for specific lessons though. And then again, maybe not.

If you feel this way about the local guy, why are you crawfishing with Lou to not play him at all because you've recognized he's a "better player" and you'll just go to another table?

Don't you think there's anything to learn from HIM as a better player than you?

MORE DOUBLE TALK BS!

*****Btw, can you please tell us some stories of "daring do" when you were playing 'for money' to support your wife when you first got married? If you weren't playing the better players than yourself, how did you work into games with the lower end guys to make all of this money? What were the games: 8ball or 9ball?
What was your average 'haul' in a day or week when the annual average wage was about $5,000 or lower where guys hanging around in pool rooms all day were broke themselves without a job?

I smell more backpedaling and moon walking double talk excuses coming in the next post along with total BS.

denwhit said:

It's amazing to me how you've placed yourself as the AZB BS detector. I'm sure everyone is happy you've got the con.

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There isn't a post you make that doesn't have more holes in it than 2 dozen donuts coming fresh out of the oven and just scream, BULLSHIT!!

You better NEVER commit a crime. The detectives will burn through your doubletalk in no time flat and be laughing their butts off.

I'm not the BS detector because everyone here can see through your stories as clear as a fresh mountain stream.

*****Btw, can you please tell us some stories of "daring do" when you were playing 'for money' to support your wife when you first got married? If you weren't playing the better players than yourself, how did you work into games with the lower end guys to make all of this money? What were the games: 8ball or 9ball?
What was your average 'haul' in a day or week when the annual average wage was about $5,000 or lower where guys hanging around in pool rooms all day were broke themselves without a job?

I smell more backpedaling and moon walking double talk excuses coming in the next post along with total BS.

Low500 said:

*Aiming Conversation How do you aim? How should everyone else aim? Argue to your heart's content*.....subtitle of this area.
My argument: You are wrong on most all counts and not qualified to give advice, in my opinion. You go your way and I will go mine. I do not need your preaching.

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My argument: Exactly what was I "preaching"? You stated the benefits of playing the ghost, and I countered with the drawbacks, plus offered common sense advice about the benefits of learning from an opponent. How is that wrong?

And since you don't know me, what gives you the opinion I am "not qualified" to give such basic common advice, the same advice given in many great pool books by many experts? I'm curious.

None of this, despite the subtitle of the aiming forum, has anything to do with the needing an aiming system thread. However, I suppose if a player races the ghost to 5 or 7, and only wins 2 or 3 games, that player may then realize he or she needs an aiming system. Maybe. It depends on why they couldn't run out....missed ball or bad position play. So the smart move would be to use the ghost as a baseline measure of ones current skills. Take notes on failed run-outs, then practice and watch and learn from other players (not an imaginary player), then a month later race the ghost again and compare results with your initial baseline.

denwhit said:

It's amazing to me how you've placed yourself as the AZB BS detector. I'm sure everyone is happy you've got the con.

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Watch it.. your gonna get the gang riled up.


BTW I'm curious in how well you play. Post of video of yourself playing some 9ball. Let's see if you need a aiming system. I'm betting you don't. Just like most searcher's in need for a fix. Do you realise how much physics play a role in pool. Can one constantly run out center ball..different speeds.
CJ Wiley has a very interesting method. This might not be your thing but what it represents is what's needed. A starting point... feedback off your shots on why you missed. And just with TOO you will learn the same thing.

Aiming system are not what you should be looking for. If you are using a system and still playing bad it's probably stroke issues or ones lack of knowledge on ball to ball relationship.

denwhit said:

Anything NOT raving about how great CTE is, must be attacked and the poster must be taken down!

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How completely clueless can one person be? I nor anyone involved with it could care less whether you use it, don't use it and especially rave about how great it is.
Actually, I hope you NEVER try to learn it and avoid the subject like it was the Ebola Virus.

We're sick and tired of the REAL ATTACKERS making false claims that it doesn't work, can't work, and will never work in addition to belittling and degrading Stan or Hal Houle. These are the same individuals who claim not to use any aiming system and would never use CTE to begin with. They really have no reason or right to be here with all the garbage lies.

You're now officially one of them with your miserable post above.

What about the story of how you cleaned out the boozer dregs hanging out in pool rooms that you pounced on to lavish your new bride with everything her little heart desired from the new Prince Charming husband in her life.

I can't wait.

denwhit said:

Lou can tell me privately if he will only come out to play for money. We have each other's phone number. I don't think we need you in any form.

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YO, you've been TOLD publicly. He ain't playing for funsies. Pony up those big bucks you earned over 4 decades ago as a money playing hustler who wouldn't step up to the plate against someone better.

Call him up since you have his number to sweet talk him into just playing so you can get some pointers. LOL

8pack said:

BTW I'm curious in how well you play. Post of video of yourself playing some 9ball. Let's see if you need a aiming system. .

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LMAO! Good luck with that one! I've come to learn he doesn't do videos upon request and either pleads the 5th because what he says or it shows may incriminate him based on all the hooey he wants you to believe.