Difference between hits?

Jon Manning said:

Alright boys and girls,
I have been reading a lot about the different hit/feel of cues, and this tread is NOT about which one is the best, obviously these are subjective terms.
What are the differences between a soft and hard hit? What are you looking for when you strike the Q to determine if the cue hits soft or hard?
I have done a few searches on here and came up with nothing.

Thanks for the responses.

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9Ballr said:

If the cue doesn't either hit a ton or hit lights out it's not worth it.
I've never understood which one is better; "hits a ton" or "hits lights out".

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Jon Manning said:

Thank you for your response

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Poolplaya9 said:

I should have actually said that soft or hard are the types of terms that should be (and more often than not are) used to describe the jolt/vibration you feel in the hand holding the cue, and whippy or stiff are the types of terms that should be (and more often than not are) used to describe how much flex the shaft has when applying english. The reality is that sometimes people use all kinds of nonsensical words to describe hit and don't even know what they are talking about themselves half the time.

If someone just says "soft" or "hard" or even "stiff" or many other similar words it is best to just ask them if they are talking about the felt hand shock, or if they are talking about the shaft flex because it could be anything. It could even be that they are talking about how fast the cue ball moves for any given speed of hit as a poster above suggested but that is really just mostly a function of how hard the tip is with some effect from how flexible the shaft is. But again, best course of action is to always just clarify what someone means because it truly could be anything and some people have some outlandish beliefs. But the two parts of "hit" or "feel" are really just hand shock and shaft flex even though some people want to try to make it more.

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Cardigan Kid said:

So would you say the more hand shock the softer/whippeir hit?
I have a couple of shafts that after an hour, I feel as though I've been hitting a brick wall with it. I always assumed it was because 1. the hollowed out laminated construction and 2. Hours / years aged shaft- well used.

Or is it the opposite?

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Jon Manning said:

Alright boys and girls,
I have been reading a lot about the different hit/feel of cues, and this tread is NOT about which one is the best, obviously these are subjective terms.
What are the differences between a soft and hard hit? What are you looking for when you strike the Q to determine if the cue hits soft or hard?
I have done a few searches on here and came up with nothing.

Thanks for the responses.

Click to expand...

tonythetiger583 said:

I don't have much experience, but I'm starting to think it might be the ferrule. I feel like unless I stick a really hard tip on, anything else will feel mushy on w.e soft material they used to make low deflection ferrules.

Even then, it ends up making a "tink" sound, which doesn't feel good either.

I want firmness, but not like that...

So yeah, to me, soft means thud, and hard is "tink", and I'm looking for lotsa bounciness or "bonk" (but higher ("bEHnk" maybe, sorry I'm canadian)).

Again this is not the opinions of someone who knows anything about cues, but is getting frustrated trying to find the right cue.

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Kimmo H. said:

The tip is the most important factor in a case like yours. From what you wrote, I would highly suggest trying out a Zan Medium+ tip. I have one on my precat and it gives that shaft the perfect balance between sound and feel. I cant stand the hard *tink* sound that hard laminates make on impact, but I still want the feel of a pure hit it has. Zan tip seems to do just that, I love it. The shorter you cut the tip the harder it feels, mine is cut to have 3 untouched laminates + the radius of course.

There is a particular shaft that comes to mind reading your post about your preferred hit; the Mezz WX700. It is a rather stiff LD with a nice feel of a traditional shaft. Might be good for your preferred feel and acoustics of hit if the tip alone doesnt satisfy you

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tonythetiger583 said:

I would also like to know.

I've had cues that feel like I'm hitting with mushy cardboard. Is that what a soft hit is?
It kind of depends on what you mean by "mushy cardboard", but assuming I know what you mean by that (and it is a real big assumption since everybody means something different when they use of words such as that) it could be due to a soft hit (more muted/lower hand shock), or it could be due to a whippy/flexible shaft, or most likely some of both.

On the extreme end is the "tink" sound the same as the "tink" you get from trying to play with a phenolic break cue?
Yes, that would be a very hard hitting/high hand shock hit.

I've hit with cues that have those attributes, and they're not exactly attributes that I would actively go looking for, which leaves me confused when looking for cues marketed as soft or hard hitting.
You need to ask more specific questions about the level of hand shock and shaft stiffness as well as what kind of tip was on it when it was judged in order to have a better idea if it will likely meet your preferences. But since there is still much subjectivity to these things you still won't know for sure if it will actually meet your preferences until you test hit the cue yourself.

I want "bouncy" with a nice crisp almost "bonk" hit, but a little higher.
No idea what you mean by "bouncy", and no idea what you mean by a "little higher" than "bonk" (what is bonk?). Aside from subjectivity, herein lies the problem in trying to describe a certain hit to each other. We all use different words that mean different things to each of us.

I think the best way I could describe it, is I want a refined version of the feedback I get from a one piece bar cue but with a shaft that flexes a little less. Would that be considered a soft hit, or a hard hit?
I would guess that you like a cue with a hardness of hit/hand shock in between medium and hard (maybe a 7.5 on a 1-10 scale), and with a shaft stiffness in between medium stiff and very stiff (maybe a 7.5 also), and with a tip also between medium and hard (again I am guessing about a 7.5). This is based on all your descriptions in the post and my attempt to decipher what you mean by some of it which I could very easily have deciphered wrong.

I don't have much experience, but I'm starting to think it might be the ferrule. I feel like unless I stick a really hard tip on, anything else will feel mushy on w.e soft material they used to make low deflection ferrules.
Mushy might be used by some people to describe hand shock and by others to describe shaft flex. Since you are talking about the ferrule having an effect it appears you are talking about the hand shock when you say mushy.

Even then, it ends up making a "tink" sound, which doesn't feel good either. I want firmness, but not like that...
It sounds like you don't like one of the following or a combination of more than one of the following: a really hard hit with a lot of hand shock, or a really stiff shaft, or a really hard tip. Finding out the combination of hardness of hit you like (amount of hand shock), amount of shaft flex/stiffness you like, and hardness of tip you like will take a lot of experimenting to get the combination right.

So yeah, to me, soft means thud, and hard is "tink", and I'm looking for lotsa bounciness or "bonk" (but higher ("bEHnk" maybe, sorry I'm canadian)).

Again this is not the opinions of someone who knows anything about cues, but is getting frustrated trying to find the right cue.

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Poolplaya9 said:

More hand shock would be a sharper, harder hit. Like someone else said, you can think of a tink (sharper, harder hand shock) verses a thunk (a more muted softer hand shock). Or imagine hitting a brick wall using a piece of rebar held and stroked like a cue (an extremely hard and sharp hit/hand shock), verses hitting the brick wall with a cue made of balsa wood (an extremely soft muted hand shock in comparison).

While stiffer (less flexible) shafts do often tend to have a harder (more hand shock) hit, and whippier (more flexible) shafts do often tend to have a softer (less hand shock) hit, there appear to be other factors besides just the shaft taper and flexibility that also affect how much hand shock or the type of hand shock that is felt so the two things should always be discussed separately IMO. Sometimes a hard hitting (high hand shock) cue may not have a real stiff shaft, and sometimes a more flexible/"whippier" shaft can still hit pretty hard (high hand shock) so one should never assume.

I feel the terms hard and soft and the like should always be used to describe the hand shock, and whippy and stiff and the like should always be used to describe shaft flex felt while applying english, but some people use the word "hard" when referring to shaft flex and the word "stiff" when referring to hand shock so you can never assume what they meant and it is best to just ask them.

Based on your description of your cue it sounds you would probably want to describe it as hard hitting in your opinion--it has a lot of hand shock in your opinion. You didn't give any information to be able to say what kind of shaft stiffness it has. I can say that low deflection shafts often tend to hit softer (less hand shock) than their solid counterparts (because more dense objects tend to transmit shock better) but there are certainly tons of exceptions and your shaft seems to be one of them. Denser woods also often tend to be harder hitting (more hand shock) for the same reason but again there are exceptions because other factors are also involved. I highly doubt the amount of use on a shaft makes any difference to the feel (I don't think the wood really compresses much or anything like that). I also doubt the age of the shaft makes any difference either although possibly a different moisture content over time could make a very slight difference. Older wood though, such as old growth wood tends to be denser which can result in a harder hit/more hand shock but since other factors are involved this isn't always the case here either.

I think people also often fail to give enough thought and consideration to how much difference the tip makes to how hard a cue hits (how much hand shock it has) too. Different tips can make the same cue feel anywhere from soft to hard hitting. Knowing how hard or soft a cue hits doesn't have all that much usefulness or meaning or reliability without knowing what kind of tip is on it. A cue will almost always feel softer hitting with a softer tip, and harder hitting with a harder tip so it is important to know what kind of tip was on it when considering how hard the cue really hits. If a cue with a different tip than you like has the perfect hardness of hit for you, then it will almost certainly not have the perfect hardness of hit you like once you put your preferred tip on it.

And of course we also have to keep in mind that the amount of hand shock and amount of shaft flex when applying english are things that have some subjectivity to them. What you will consider high hand shock/hard hitting the next guy will consider medium hand shock/medium hard hit and same with shaft flex etc.

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