My first video share (100 balls w/12 misses)

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Also Jeff is a pretty sporty player but most of the balls he missed in the latest video would not have gone in on any pockets.

The six ball in the second rack. He hit it 3 inches down the short rail. That's not falling anywhere. Mostly because he didn't stroke it well with the cue ball close to the rail. Then the 15 ball misses by 4 inches. Again a positional error. Left way too hard of a shot due to a faulty prior shot. I didn't watch the whole video but what I did watch didn't show any rattling balls that would have scored on bigger pockets.

He will be a much more accurate player for owning this table in the long run. In fact he's doing quite well. Good job Jeff!

JC

Thanks, John! I agree. It's a long video, so I don't expect anyone to watch it all. I know that there are at least a couple of balls during the run that would have gone on other tables, but cue ball control and my eyes with two astigmatisms playing tricks on me are the main problems. I even got glasses recently to try to help with the crooked sighting, but they only make the crookedness sharper :rolleyes:, so those wildly errant balls will just happen and I have to accept that as well.
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jeff

I did a voice over for your video and added graphics.

Jeff - First Video

I have some more stuff that I can send you - my e-mail address is in the video description.

Wow, David. You shouldn't have gone to so much trouble! I probably know all the problems that you're going to suggest I work on, but I'll definitely watch it soon. Thanks!
 

Blackjack

Illuminati Blacksmack
Silver Member
Wow, David. You shouldn't have gone to so much trouble! I probably know all the problems that you're going to suggest I work on, but I'll definitely watch it soon. Thanks!

No problemo amigo.

Somewhere in the video I passed along some stuff on precision - If you get nothing else out of it than that- you'll be better for it.

I haven't read any of the other comments - so I am probably just re-stating the obvious - but I enjoy doing these.

Precision is ....

Having the discipline to do something over and over ...

As well as it can possibly be done ...

Every single time ...

Even if it's uncomfortable or inconvenient.

~ Dick DeVenzio
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No problemo amigo.

Somewhere in the video I passed along some stuff on precision - If you get nothing else out of it than that- you'll be better for it.

I haven't read any of the other comments - so I am probably just re-stating the obvious - but I enjoy doing these.

Precision is ....

Having the discipline to do something over and over ...

As well as it can possibly be done ...

Every single time ...

Even if it's uncomfortable or inconvenient.

~ Dick DeVenzio

Hey, David. I just watched your commentated video. I do appreciate that you're trying to help, and I agree that I need to walk around the table more, take more time on each shot, and hit the balls softer. But trust me when I tell you that when I'm not moving around the table, my mind is moving quite a bit around the table. I see more options from certain perspectives, and moving is sometimes a distraction from all of the possible paths. I do agree I need to walk around the table to get the odd perspective though. I think I am doing more of that now as can be seen in the second video.

But I have to say that I disagree with you on many of the comments, both in theory and in analysis of the real life table situations and why they arose. Often we'll watch straight pool matches with top pros, and commentators who are great players themselves will disagree with one another and wonder what the heck the player at the table is doing. I know I'm not a pro at the table, but I could walk you and others through what I was thinking at each moment of this session, and you'll realize that 90% of what is seen as improper planning is actually changing from Plan A to Plan B and then Plan C and D and E. And this necessity to continually change plans boils down to 90% poor cue ball control and 10% fear of certain awkward shots.

Again, I appreciate the time you took on this, but what would truly be helpful and I think we'd all love to see would be a video where you run balls and commentate while you're shooting. What this does is test theory against real life situations. Mike Sigel's 100-ball instructional and the Poolmanis video did just this. Come to think of it, I may even do this as fun for all of us. I could talk through a rack or two, commenting on how I'm approaching the table layout, and we could all critique my thinking and not just execution.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't always agree with Blackjack but his analysis of your video is damn good. The parts about precision and attention to detail are invaluable.
You have a number of issues with your game that prevent you from running balls and lack of precision and attention to detail are among them. He also mentions stroke speed. That and also stroke length are another issue.
You seem to think that poor CB control is a large part of the problem and that may be a factor but correcting that will require developing a more reliable stroke.
A lot of the shots you missed weren't all that difficult and didn't have anything to do with poor position. You're also going into balls with no idea whats going to happen. That's a recipe for disaster and should be a last resort
Thought process needs work also. You're waiting way too long to address problems and shot selection is not good. Blackjack pointed this out right in the beginning of your 1st rack (13 and 2 ball) and continued to harp on it throughout the video. With good reason, it's extremely important. There were multiple instances during the video where your shot selection was not conducive to solving problems and at times, made them worse.
I've been rather critical here but if you're interested in improving it will take a major commitment to address things which are impeding your progress.
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't always agree with Blackjack but his analysis of your video is damn good. The parts about precision and attention to detail are invaluable.
You have a number of issues with your game that prevent you from running balls and lack of precision and attention to detail are among them. He also mentions stroke speed. That and also stroke length are another issue.
You seem to think that poor CB control is a large part of the problem and that may be a factor but correcting that will require developing a more reliable stroke.
A lot of the shots you missed weren't all that difficult and didn't have anything to do with poor position. You're also going into balls with no idea whats going to happen. That's a recipe for disaster and should be a last resort
Thought process needs work also. You're waiting way too long to address problems and shot selection is not good. Blackjack pointed this out right in the beginning of your 1st rack (13 and 2 ball) and continued to harp on it throughout the video. With good reason, it's extremely important. There were multiple instances during the video where your shot selection was not conducive to solving problems and at times, made them worse.
I've been rather critical here but if you're interested in improving it will take a major commitment to address things which are impeding your progress.

Well, I'll agree with you that my stroke could be more reliable, and my shooting isn't flawless. My eyes aren't great, so I may miss what looks like a pretty easy shot. Precision and attention to detail are important as well, and I'll work on that.

Where I'll disagree is that I'm going into balls without any idea of what will happen. I don't go into balls willy nilly. I almost always have insurance. But I acknowledge that I will go into balls a little bit more often than pro players with great cue ball control. I do this purposely, because sometimes those pro hairpin position plays are too unlikely for me to pull off at my level. I play zones with insurance where more than one shot option is often available. So what I don't think you'll find in either of my video runs is me snookering myself.

Yes, I want to improve and love criticism that is helpful, but if you offer criticism that I disagree with, I'm going to tell you. I don't want to go through the whole video and point out everything I disagree with, but since you brought up the 2-ball and 13-ball in the first rack, let me explain them...

After opening up the rack, I recognized the 2, 15, 5, 9 cluster as a cluster that couldn't be picked off one by one. It had to be bumped. I decided to float down off of the 11-ball to the middle of those four bottom rail balls to start working on the problems. Should I have walked around the table? Maybe. I do think I could be less lazy. Anyway, I got into a great position after the 11-ball to use an opportunity off of the 3-ball or 8-ball to go directly into the cluster with insurance balls. The 3-ball made more sense to me, because the angle off of the rail was more natural, and I felt the balls would open in a better direction. After I bumped the cluster, the 13-ball blocked the 2-ball, but it wasn't serious. What you're not seeing is that the 15-ball now has no pocket, so I immediately saw that the shot on the 10-ball bumping the six a bit would open it up, and I made a good shot on that and decided to take the 15-ball in the side next. I also saw a problem with the 7-ball on the rail. Besides it being a tough shot to get on and make, I strongly disagree that it is useful for getting on the 1-ball. It's way too iffy of a shot and position play. After the 15-ball shot, I had an angle on the 14-ball to get close and take it out. I knew I had to cinch the shot and come across table for the 5-ball next, which I did. The angle I ended up with allowed me to get back down-table to get back to work on the 2-ball issue. So I have the 8-ball and 4-ball as options to play next. The 8-ball had a slight angle to bump up the 13-ball, so I tried to do just that, and I missed it. Not a bad play to solve the problem, but I missed it. Next shot was either the 6-ball or 13-ball. The 6-ball was awkward and required too much precision to get the cue ball between the 4-ball and 13-ball at perfect speed to play the 13-ball in the bottom left corner, so I chose the bridge shot on the 13-ball. I wasn't "preoccupied" with the 13-ball when I shot it. It was really the right shot. Before I shot it I had the entire end pattern planned. It was 13, 6, 2, 4, 1, break ball on the 9. If I had pocketed the 6 first as suggested, I believe the end pattern would have been harder. My cue ball draw control was bad off of the 6-ball, and I had to take the shot on the 1-ball that I missed in the upper left corner. I mistakenly used running english to help the cue ball off of the rail off for the 6-ball shot to get on the 2-ball. Again, cue ball control issues.

Anyway, my point is, don't assume so much. There's a lot going on that apparently isn't being acknowledged. If you see different plays, tell me, but acknowledge all of the factors, because all of the factors have to be acknowledged at the table.

My second video shows a slightly more solid, slightly shorter bridge and a steadier stroke, I think. I noticed that I'm moving my head on many shots though, so I'll be working on that. I'll also be working on eating less, unless the camera adds 50 pounds. :rolleyes:
 
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sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Let me bring up a few more situations because I'd be interested in your reasoning behind them.
Take a look at the position of the balls at 10:10 of the 1st video. Note the relationship between the CB and the breakshot. About as good as you can get on that subpar BS.
Point being that the 13 was the best key ball, not the 4. Using the 4 meant drawing straight back across a small position zone which is a big no no position wise.
Next rack, at 14:38. 13 is a nice KB for the 7. Good end pattern was 1, 8, 13.
That wasn't really possible however because of the position of the 4 and 9. Those 2 balls were a problem area which should have been addressed much earlier.
Many times you are left with a less than ideal situation late in racks which are a result of poor shot &/or position decisions earlier in the rack.
23:08 you shot the 15 and went into the balls without knowing what would happen. In addition to missing the shot due to a poor stroke, the 6 ball ended up on the rail joining the 1 and 10 which were already there. At this point those 3 balls on the rail were essentially the only problem in the rack but were a significant one and needed immediate attention. Which they didn't get. The 2 and 11 got you to the1 but you shot the 3 instead.
I could give you more than 1 example in every rack of both runs where your shot or position selections could have been better. I'm not going to. All I can say is that the issues I pointed out in my 1st post exist in your game and need work.
Good Luck.
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Besides what I'm about to explain think about the fact that you told me to listen to Blackjack's recommendations, and none of yours match his. Also think about the fact that nearly all of his commentated video and certainly all of your comments so far have been attacks on my play. Not one positive thing to say. Nothing I did in 43 minutes was any good. I'm a complete novice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj2gqfLNKJo&t=5s

Take a look at the position of the balls at 10:10 of the 1st video. Note the relationship between the CB and the breakshot. About as good as you can get on that subpar BS.
Point being that the 13 was the best key ball, not the 4. Using the 4 meant drawing straight back across a small position zone which is a big no no position wise.

See, this is the sort of constructive criticism that I'm asking for, so thank you! Looking back a few shots, I agree that the 13-ball would have been a slightly better key ball if I would have seen it that way before I pocketed the 8-ball at 9:32. It would have been best to play the 2-ball next up in the top right corner to get it out of the way so that the 1-ball could have been my K2K-ball to get on the 13-ball. What got me in trouble was that I was probably thinking that I'd have a good angle off of the 13-ball to be able to play a follow shot on the 2-ball off of the right side rail to get position for the break ball, but I didn't make sure I got a slight up-table angle. I rushed the shot on the 13-ball and ended up on the 50-yard line couldn't cheat the pocket to go off the up-table portion of the side rail, and because the break ball was so high, if I had gone off of the down-table portion of the side rail I would have run the risk of getting too close to the break ball, so I decided to draw it. I think I actually wanted to draw it all the way off of the left side rail, but I didn't catch the 2-ball full and it came back at an angle towards the pocket and scratched.

Next rack, at 14:38. 13 is a nice KB for the 7. Good end pattern was 1, 8, 13.
That wasn't really possible however because of the position of the 4 and 9. Those 2 balls were a problem area which should have been addressed much earlier.
Many times you are left with a less than ideal situation late in racks which are a result of poor shot &/or position decisions earlier in the rack.

I agree that what I did wasn't right, and if I had just drawn the 2-ball shot off of the left side rail to get above the 9-ball rather than below it, it would have been a different story. But looking back to 14:03, what I really should done was taken out the 13-ball first, then 10, 2, 15. That would have given me a great end pattern of 1, 8, 9, break ball on the 7.

I don't like the end pattern of 1, 8, 13. How do you expect to get perfect on the 13-ball from the 8-ball? Too difficult, I think. If I wanted the 13-ball as the key ball in the side pocket I think better would have been to leave the 15-ball as the K2K-ball. But I think there were better options for end patterns like the one I just rethought.


23:08 you shot the 15 and went into the balls without knowing what would happen. In addition to missing the shot due to a poor stroke, the 6 ball ended up on the rail joining the 1 and 10 which were already there. At this point those 3 balls on the rail were essentially the only problem in the rack but were a significant one and needed immediate attention. Which they didn't get. The 2 and 11 got you to the1 but you shot the 3 instead.

True, going into the balls off of the 15-ball was risky, and I probably should have taken the shot on the 11-ball in the side instead. I guess I didn't feel comfortable with the 11-ball at that angle with the cue ball on the cushion. But the only other reasonable shot was the easier dead straight 7-ball first with follow, and I would have had to take the 2-ball next which would have been nice insurance for the 15, and I don't see an opportunity for another secondary break shot to break up the 4, 8, 13 cluster, so it made sense to me to shoot the 15 while the 2-ball was still there. I had an angle and a little bit of insurance with the 1-ball at the time, and I figured that there would be more balls up table to play if necessary.

I shot the 3-ball because the 4-ball had no pocket which was another problem I saw that was more pressing, because without the 4-ball gone I wouldn't be able to get to the 8-ball later, and I got a good angle on the 4, so I took the opportunity to shoot it. The next shot on the 14-ball was just downright awful, but if I had hit it properly I would have drifted over for a good angle on the 1-ball, but taking out the 5-ball was good too, and I got to the 1-ball two shots later without issue. But I'm not suggesting that what I did was right. There were better ways to go about that rack.

I could give you more than 1 example in every rack of both runs where your shot or position selections could have been better. I'm not going to. All I can say is that the issues I pointed out in my 1st post exist in your game and need work.
Good Luck

Good luck to you.
 
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CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What would you two say about the guy who got himself into this layout? He must really suck.

This Player Must Suck.jpg
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It looks like this might be a screenshot from a match at the World 14.1 tournament. Possibly from 2013 or 14. If so then I guess we can assume it involves a couple of fairly good players. Looking at the table I guess you could say that whoever's shooting has kind of butchered this rack. That's assuming that they've been shooting from the beginning of that rack.
Lets say that's the case. Well yeah, you could definitely make the point that their decisions so far have probably been somewhat suspect. Or possibly it's one of those racks from hell where no matter what you do it just goes wrong. It happens to all of us at times.
Let's look at a little different scenario for a minute. Say your opponent missed and left you with this situation. Would you be unhappy?
I wouldn't. Because as far as inherited racks go this one is actually not too bad. It's a relatively simple task to run the balls, shooting easy shots with high percentage position and fall real good on a decent breakshot.
It entails going across position zones on 2 shots but with fairly good sized margins of error and easy speed control. Also with options for recovery if needed.
As a matter of fact I see 3 different ways to run these balls with 3 different breakshots. But using the 5 ball below the rack with the 14 as a KB is by far the easiest and the most high percentage way to go.
So what looks like a fairly tough situation really isn't, provided you know how to take the balls off the table.
Now I'm going to address your previous post where you express displeasure with the fact that Blackjack and I are being too critical. (I doubt you'll hear from BJack again as he spent a lot of time and effort to try and help and was essentially told thanks but no thanks.)
I'm a glutton for punishment however so I'll try one more time to help you out. Keep in mind however that it will be critical. The only way anyone can improve in this game is to recognize where they're making mistakes and take steps to eliminate them.
I started off my 1st post by saying "I don't always agree with Blackjack". That doesn't translate into my saying to follow his recommendations. There were a few things he said that I don't agree with. What I did say, and wholeheartedly agree with, were his comments on precision and attention to detail. Pick any sport or endeavor from any walk of life and that's what separates the very best from everyone else. That and a burning desire to win/ or intense hatred of losing, they're kind of the same thing. My other mention of his analysis pertained to not recognizing and addressing problems quickly enough. IMO he didn't talk about that enough as that is a major problem with your game.
I pointed out 3 times during the video where I thought you'd gain some insight into why it might be better to do things a little differently. Ironically, all 3 times you admitted that you probably could have done things better. Yet then explained why you did it that way or what you would or should have done differently.
In the 1st situation you're trying to explain that you got a bad angle on the side pocket KB when you shot the 13. Maybe that's because you never went and looked at exactly where you needed to get. Something that Blackjack goes on and on about in every evaluation he does, including yours. Even so, what you're having trouble recognizing is that the 4 in the side was a horrible KB, good angle or not. At 9:15 there were 5 balls on the table besides the BS and any 1 of them was a better KB than the 4.
Besides all that, the 2 was a poor choice for a BS, unless played in the side, then it was ok and the 10 was a decent KB. The 4 and the 10 were both better breakshots than the 2 in the corner.
One good way to evaluate high breakshots is to draw a line from the spot to the closest point of the side pocket. If the entire ball is below that line then it's an excellent BS.
Now let's talk a little about attention to detail. We'll use the 1, 8, 13 end pattern as an example. Your statement... "I don't like the end pattern of 1, 8, 13. How do you expect to get perfect on the 13-ball from the 8-ball? Too difficult, I think."
You were perfect on the 13 ball when you shot the 8 ball at 14:30 and if you'll note where you shot it from you were on a line from the 1 to 8. Also, there was a large position zone on the 8 that could have been attained from any reasonable shot on the 1.
In retrospect you decided maybe you should have done it differently. I'm not saying your new plan is terrible per se but let's take a look at it from an "attention to detail" aspect.
Your statement.... "But looking back to 14:03, what I really should done was taken out the 13-ball first, then 10, 2,(it's actually the 4 next to the 9) 15. That would have given me a great end pattern of 1, 8, 9, break ball on the 7."
I'm going to tell you what my thoughts would be if I was considering that particular pattern to end the rack.
1) If I shoot the 13 can I hold the CB to stay straight on the 10? I've already determined I'd like to be straight on it when I shoot the 10.
2) If I was at the table I could tell but have to guess looking at the video. I'm going to assume I'll slide to the left a little too much.
3) That means I have to cut the 10 a little to my right and send the CB off the bottom rail and across the zone for position on the 4. Which means I have to stop in a very small area. If I miss position short, I'm going to run into the 9 when I shoot the 4 and possibly ruin my BS. If I miss long I can't even see the 4 to shoot it. This immediately tells me that if I can't get straight on the 10 then shooting the 13 is not an option.
But I'm going to assume that I got good on the 4 and continue with your pattern.
4) So I'm straight on the 4 and I shoot it and maybe draw back a little so I have about a 3/4 ball cut on the 15. Now, when I shoot the 15, I'm coming off the side rail and have to be careful not to hit the 8.
5) That means I'll probably end up farther away from the 1 than is optimal. Not to mention the angle. If I'm straight or the CB is anywhere to the left of straight then I've got big problems. I need to be slightly to the right of straight but the further to the right I am the shot gets more difficult and position harder to control. This is once again a situation where there's a very small area to stop and should be avoided.
The above is just a small sample of the attention to detail required. And this was a fairly simple, straightforward situation. Sometimes it's much more complicated and you have to be much more detailed and careful.
As an aside: A ball around the 2nd diamond on the long rail with another ball somewhere in the rack area is sometimes a good last 2 balls before the BS. In this case it's not. Two things should be present before considering that type of end pattern.
A) The 2 or 3 balls leading up to the ball on the long rail should be situated in positions to allow achieving a very precise angle on the rail ball.
B) The position of the KB around the rack area and the BS allow you to see the long rail below the side pocket on the BS side. That way if you get a little thin on the KB you can go one rail out. Neither A nor B are present in the layout on the video in question which means that end pattern is suspect and should be rejected unless other options are worse.
Once again I could go on and on illustrating different principles from table layouts in your videos but I'm a one fingered typist and have other things to do this weekend. Before I quit I'll tell you what IMO you need to do if you want to run 100+ someday.
1)You have to develop a solid stroke. Right now, due to numerous reasons, your stroke is a extremely errratic. Toward that end, you should get Mark Wilsons book "Play Great Pool". It's about 80.00. It contains a lot of good stuff, amongst which is the single most important thing about pool, which is worth way more than 80.00 all by itself. I could tell you what it is but you'll probably believe it more if you spend the 80 bucks.
2)Spend at least 1/2 of your table time for the forseeable future doing the "Brainwash drill" There is not a better drill in existence for both CB control(this will also help with stroke development) and recognizing patterns.
3)If there's somewhere within a reasonable distance play some 3 cushion billiards. It will give you a much better understanding of how speed affects the CB.
4)Play people better than you. I don't know where in NJ you are but there's some pretty good players in certain areas down there. Search them out. Even lose a few bucks to them and then ask if they could help you out a little.
5)Expand you comfort zone. You mentioned "awkward shots" a couple times. It doesn't matter if you find it awkward, if it's the right shot, you need to shoot it. Keep doing that and at some point in the future, a whole bunch of shots that you used to think were awkward have all of a sudden become hangers.
6)If you watch videos of pro players don't pay too much attention to their shot making or position. Take note of their stroke length/speed and the preciseness with which they address the CB. The speed of their backswing and the smoothness of the cues delivery to the CB. Because, barring all else, those things are what allow them to make great shots and play great position. Also pause a lot and think about why they do certain things. The precision and attention to detail which they display when addressing and stroking the CB is also taking place in their thought process. The absolute best to watch for stroke mechanics and precision is IMO Alex P.
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One good way to evaluate high breakshots is to draw a line from the spot to the closest point of the side pocket. If the entire ball is below that line then it's an excellent BS.

The zone for side break shots is contained by two curves. The way to determine those curves is to look at 90 degree tangent lines off of all possible side break shots hit at high speed. Once you do, you see that your line from the spot to the side pocket point is well outside of the zone for good break shots. Most would be too high and would require perfect placement of the cue ball as well as perfect speed and spin on the shot. The diagram below shows that the upper curve terminates below the second diamond.

The cue ball on shots 1-5 will catch a small portion of the top of the rack and on shots 6-9 will catch a small portion of the bottom of the rack. Any break ball between those curves is a break ball that can be hit hard from any angle and with any spin and contact the rack. Any break ball outside of those curves is a potential problem.

Break Shot Zone Tangents.jpg
 

wigglybridge

14.1 straight pool!
Silver Member
pepper, you've had sage advice from at least 4 100-ball runners that i know, and one 200-ball runner. Steve (sparkle) is one of them.

for a guy who usually runs single digits, you seem remarkably resistant to the suggestions they're giving you -- and which you asked for. you say they're dissing your playing, but Blackjack actually complimented your shots where appropriate in his analysis. and you didn't say you wanted attaboys, you said you wanted help.

before you lecture Steve about breakshots, you might consider that what he told you was specifically about "high" breakshots, and has been the conventional wisdom for decades from 100-ball runners; he is not shooting from the hip, or making academic diagrams from stun angles, he is giving you, for free, the knowledge and experience that took him years of shooting 14.1 to assemble. same with Blackjack, in spades, and the others.

now, you may be right, and they may all be wrong. but the numbers indicate that they might have something for you to learn from.
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm sorry everyone. I must be wrong if sparkle and blackjack are both 100 ball runners. So I must be out of my mind for questioning advice that makes no sense after watching and studying 400-ball runners for years who don't seem to follow it? Add to that all that's being overlooked in favor of platitudes that don't apply and yes, I'm going to challenge anyone who offers advice that doesn't add up. Just because I have less than stellar cue ball control and shooting skills doesn't make me less knowledgeable about what is essentially a puzzle game.

As for high break balls, that line to the side pocket point may as well extend to the head corner pockets, because if you're above the tangent line curves I diagrammed, you'd have to land the cue ball just right and play the break shot just right anyway. A little too much angle and you miss the stack. Even with the perfect angle, you're playing either a softer shot into the stack or taking chances with a smaller angle and a force follow. I'm surprised if that line from the spot to the side pocket point is a long time reference for high break shots. Yes, those shots are playable, but excellent? I was just watching a Thorsten run where the break ball was barely above my diagrammed upper curve, and he took the time to find a way to bump it down below the curve.

I am trying to play nice, but should I point out very suspect pattern play and technique from those who are giving me advice that doesn't even apply to their own game? Should I share those video links? Or can we just agree to disagree at this point?

You might think that I felt personally attacked by the advice given to me. Wrong. I simply can't sit calmly while advice that I think is misleading is being accepted as truth. If the advice were given to another player rather than me, I'd challenge it just the same.
 
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Blackjack

Illuminati Blacksmack
Silver Member
I'm sorry everyone. I must be wrong if sparkle and blackjack are both 100 ball runners. So I must be out of my mind for questioning advice that makes no sense after watching and studying 400-ball runners for years who don't seem to follow it? Add to that all that's being overlooked in favor of platitudes that don't apply and yes, I'm going to challenge anyone who offers advice that doesn't add up. Just because I have less than stellar cue ball control and shooting skills doesn't make me less knowledgeable about what is essentially a puzzle game.

As for high break balls, that line to the side pocket point may as well extend to the head corner pockets, because if you're above the tangent line curves I diagrammed, you'd have to land the cue ball just right and play the break shot just right anyway. A little too much angle and you miss the stack. Even with the perfect angle, you're playing either a softer shot into the stack or taking chances with a smaller angle and a force follow. I'm surprised if that line from the spot to the side pocket point is a long time reference for high break shots. Yes, those shots are playable, but excellent? I was just watching a Thorsten run where the break ball was barely above my diagrammed upper curve, and he took the time to find a way to bump it down below the curve.

I am trying to play nice, but should I point out very suspect pattern play and technique from those who are giving me advice that doesn't even apply to their own game? Should I share those video links? Or can we just agree to disagree at this point?

You might think that I felt personally attacked by the advice given to me. Wrong. I simply can't sit calmly while advice that I think is misleading is being accepted as truth. If the advice were given to another player rather than me, I'd challenge it just the same.


The video I made for you has been removed from Youtube.
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just old story ...

Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era, received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor’s cup full, and then kept on pouring. The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. “It is overfull. No more will go in!”

Like this cup, Nan-in said, you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?
I like the tea story a lot, it is a great reminder that in order to learn we have to be humble, to empty our mind and make room for the new.
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just old story ...

Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era, received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor’s cup full, and then kept on pouring. The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. “It is overfull. No more will go in!”

Like this cup, Nan-in said, you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?
I like the tea story a lot, it is a great reminder that in order to learn we have to be humble, to empty our mind and make room for the new.

Nice. But I wonder who in this thread are you suggesting is Nan-in and who is the professor? And who is Gilligan? And how do we get off of this island?
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The video I made for you has been removed from Youtube.

Can't say I blame you, but still, it's a shame it's no longer available. I've seen a fair amount of your material but nothing like this one. The info about attention to detail and precision is so true. Consider putting it back up so people who want to learn can benefit.
Poolmanis...You're the man.
Thanks Bob...I've tried to help many, many people that play at that level without a lot of success. Every once in awhile someone gets it and then it's worth it. But most of the time you're reminded of Danny D's well known saying, which seems to be the case here.
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Blackjack, I also think you should put the video back up. Just because I didn't find it helpful doesn't mean that others won't. And maybe others will see the issues I have with it as well, which can lead to further discussion, which I'm not against.
 
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