8-Ball Rules Question

flash5153

none
Silver Member
It's not the silly rule, it's the silly people playing. And using the silly rule in a manner which it wasn't intended, meaning the rule isn't designed to be a method to victory. When people stoop to using rules in this manner, it shows their lack of character, and their desperation.

Is the marker rule silly, to a degree, yes. I can understand what probably motivated its inception. We've already discussed the lengths people will go to win these games, don't you think its likely that these same sorts of people might claim that you didn't call out which pocket you were shooting at? "I didn't hear that". Now you have a whole other set if issues for players, captains, and LO's to have to adjudicate. Simply requiring a marker takes all that away.

Should we have to deal with such foolishness, no. But you can't mandate good character and common sense, and there isn't a practical screening method to eliminate those who go to extremes. And really, how much bother is it to simply place something near the pocket you intend to shoot at. Personally, I have gotten to like it, just a little, as it makes me slow down my approach to that shot. I'll trade that minor inconvenience for not having to insure that my opponent absolutely knows which pocket ( in what are usually busy and loud rooms) and to not worry about an argument.

I see your point about the rule,,,but I still think is a silly rule!!!

It causes the shooter to lose more games than it protects against the 8 going into a un- called pocket and someone claiming they called it. This rarely ever happens. But losing because pocket is unmarked happens often!!! Silly!!!!!!
I also agree people abuse it,,,and why it should be eliminated. example: Marker is put down,,,but is over the edge of the diamond by Millimeters. And someones cries foul!!! Or,,hmmm? Maybe the ref accidentally knocks your marker off while watching the shot,,and you lose!!!! LMAO!!!!
And only in the APA ,,can you slop every ball in,,,until you get to the 8.
 

flash5153

none
Silver Member
While I agree with everything you said here, APA officials are near cult-like in their approach to handling situations such as these. There isn't an APA referee in the world who isn't going to say, "If his marker fell off the table, it's his tough luck."

HUH??? What did you say??
Your words say,,,(i think) that the ref is correct in his call. Even though he knocked the pocket marker off while looking at the shot!!!

And ref had to know what pocket the 8 was called in. LMAO
 

quadrary

Custom Leather Cue Cases
Silver Member
While I agree with everything you said here, APA officials are near cult-like in their approach to handling situations such as these. There isn't an APA referee in the world who isn't going to say, "If his marker fell off the table, it's his tough luck."

you are wrong in that assertion
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
You marked your pocket so it should be your game.

Before they came up with the rule that the maker can be within two diamonds, I have witnessed on at least one occasion when the game was lost because the edge of the marker was touching the first diamond.

Like, if you have to win a game that bad, you can have it and better watch me real careful from now on because playing me isn't going to be much fun
in the future.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
HUH??? What did you say??
Your words say,,,(i think) that the ref is correct in his call. Even though he knocked the pocket marker off while looking at the shot!!!

And ref had to know what pocket the 8 was called in. LMAO

No, I'm not saying the ref was right. I'm saying is that this line of thinking is prevelant among APA officials. I'm saying that if you did a survey of how this would be handled by 100 APA officials, the majority of them would rule the same way as this one did. No, I don't think it's right at all.


EDIT: The fundamental difference between your thoughts and mine is that you think you found a dumb ref. I think the APA rulebook is dumb and it creates dumb refs. This is also compounded by the fact that the majority of APA officials have no experience refing outside the APA.
 
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Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The truth of the matter is, the APA needs to wake-up and realize that they're part of a bigger entity. I think it's wonderful that they've created a league system that is enticing to non-poolplayers and have introduced the sport to tens of thousands of people worldwide. With that said, winning needs to be about pocketing balls whenever possible. As I stated earlier in this thread, 8ball is the lone game in pool where the shooter can lose. There's no need to add to the list of ways to lose.

What makes this right? That's the question EVERY ref in EVERY sport must ask. Ruling a loss-of-game is a huge penalty and you better make sure that ruling is appropriate when you do it. The APA's 8ball rules have no appreciation for the severity of such a call.
 

flash5153

none
Silver Member
No, I'm not saying the ref was right. I'm saying is that this line of thinking is prevelant among APA officials. I'm saying that if you did a survey of how this would be handled by 100 APA officials, the majority of them would rule the same way as this one did. No, I don't think it's right at all.


EDIT: The fundamental difference between your thoughts and mine is that you think you found a dumb ref. I think the APA rulebook is dumb and it creates dumb refs. This is also compounded by the fact that the majority of APA officials have no experience refing outside the APA.

Oh,,OK. I read your first post several times and it could be taken either way. I do see what you are saying.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh,,OK. I read your first post several times and it could be taken either way. I do see what you are saying.

That post wasn't meant to stand alone. I've already stated a few things about how the rulebook stinks and how common sense must prevail. There's just very little (if any) common sense in the APA. You may find it at your local level because your LO might be intelligent enough to do the right thing. Once you leave that zone, you're in for a real sh*tshow. The higher up you go, the worse it gets.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
I don't disagree that the rule is a bit on the silly side, but I still dont understand all the angst over it.

So its different than they way everyone else plays, so what? You know the rule going in. As for the marker being a fraction over the diamond, well....its silly, but ya gotta read a line somewhere. You cant put the cue ball that same fraction over the line when you break, either, even though its "just a fraction".

I agree that its silly the way people try to use these rules to their advantage, as opposed to just trying to win on the table. But rules are rules... I can pretty much safely place my marker near enough the pocket that it really isn't a concern.

I really despise the attitudes of those who will act like that, but I cannot change it. Rather than let them get to me, I simply take the opportunity away from them, by simply following the rules.

I dont get the problem.
 

DelaWho???

Banger McCue
Silver Member
like a previous poster said they were watching the shot. They knew where it was supposed to go. You got screwed.

I beat a guy in a singles qualifier once. In the last rack I marked the pocket with a piece of chalk. My opponent notices another piece of chalk on the table near the othe corner pocket and tried to protest that I marked the other pocket, and put the 8 in the wrong pocket. The tourney director did the right thing and the guy then tries to shake m hands and says "Good game anyway" I wanted to tell him to go F himself, but I just walked away instead....

This, in my league area, is a rare event. Most of the folks in our division aren't nitty like that....



:cool:
 

stumpie71

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That post wasn't meant to stand alone. I've already stated a few things about how the rulebook stinks and how common sense must prevail. There's just very little (if any) common sense in the APA. You may find it at your local level because your LO might be intelligent enough to do the right thing. Once you leave that zone, you're in for a real sh*tshow. The higher up you go, the worse it gets.


I agree that there are several things the APA can improve on. But in this case it was the league operator and who ever watched the hit that made the wrong call.

This is not the right call period. Once the pocket has been marked it does not matter if it falls on the floor the pocket is still considered marked. This is a national rule. Same as the pocket has to be marked within 2 diamonds on either side of the pocket not 1.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree that there are several things the APA can improve on. But in this case it was the league operator and who ever watched the hit that made the wrong call.

This is not the right call period. Once the pocket has been marked it does not matter if it falls on the floor the pocket is still considered marked. This is a national rule. Same as the pocket has to be marked within 2 diamonds on either side of the pocket not 1.

Actually, I vaguely remember there being an actual rule about the marker staying on the table until the shot was completed. This is years ago so I can't say with any certainty but I believe that's part of the reason why you may see local rules addressing the issue. This also brings up the annoying task of receiving a new rulebook and spending the next six months figuring out which three sentences changed.
 

stumpie71

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Actually, I vaguely remember there being an actual rule about the marker staying on the table until the shot was completed. This is years ago so I can't say with any certainty but I believe that's part of the reason why you may see local rules addressing the issue. This also brings up the annoying task of receiving a new rulebook and spending the next six months figuring out which three sentences changed.


The rule I explained has been that way Nationally for the past 8 years at least. Which is surprising the LO got it wrong. Not only do they go over this specific rule at the national tournament but it use to be one of the first questions on their referee test. I agree it is pitiful that it happened especially if the person watching the hit knocked it on the floor.
 

CK6Speed

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Marking the pocket rule is not the issue. Anyone who plays 2-3 weeks in APA will learn to mark the pocket and should never forget it. You just add that into your routine. I never failed to mark the pocket on the 8 ever. I was also not really an 8 Ball player when I first started APA so I had to learn/remember a lot of the rules and strategy of 8 Ball. Either way, the rule is not a big deal as you shouldn't forget the rule in the first place. The real problem is the League Operator's decision on the even. Our League Operator based on passed experiences IMHO would have accessed the situation, saw the market on the floor near the pocket claimed to be marked, given the OP the win with a warning to be mindful of the pocket market in the future or it could result in a loss if it continues to fall off the table and be a problem. That would have been fair.
 

shinobi

kanadajindayo
Silver Member
LOL what an asshat.

Goes to all the trouble to get someone to watch the shot going into a particular pocket in a tricky manner, and then has the audacity to imply it was unmarked.

Someone deserves a serious beating.
 
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