Draw shot on ball frozen to rail: Why does it pull away from rail?

ktrepal85

Banned
Can anyone explain why when I shoot these two shots with draw the object ball always seems to pull away from the rail? I don't always miss the shot but it always comes off the rail some, maybe an inch, by the time it hits the pocket. If I use high or high inside the ball always stays glued to the rail.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You are either hitting ball first or rail first too much and banking into the ball. Rail may be crooked also.
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
Do you think you may be putting unintended left or right english on the CB when hitting with draw?
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If I hit those shots soft, it tends to come off the rail a bit for me also, but I think that is mostly from the cloth and slate not being perfect underneath, at faster than 30% speed it hugs the rail pretty well, although the first picture with both balls on the rail can be tough because your eyes and hands instinctively try to shoot away from the rail a bit for fear of jamming the cueball into the rail, causing the object ball to bank into the rail, thus drifting out. I usually hit that shot with a tiny bit of inside to have it curve away from the rail and back in a tiny bit. Helps my brain to not fight me when I shoot that shot.
 

peter_gunn

])3a]) s']['rok3
Silver Member
On your first picture its almost impossible to draw (especially hard) because CB and OB are frozen on the rail. When you draw CB will hop a little and rail will send CB to the right :grin:
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
On your first picture its almost impossible to draw (especially hard) because CB and OB are frozen on the rail. When you draw CB will hop a little and rail will send CB to the right :grin:
This is the reason the CB leaves the rail. The ball is slightly under the rail and every shot (not just draw shots) hops a little, so it hops up into the overhanging rail and rebounds away.

Hit softly or with a little inside spin to squirt it out and curve it back. Better yet, don't leave the CB on the rail.

When the CB isn't on the rail you have to overcut it slightly to allow for contact throw, like any other shot. Shoot it like any other shot at that angle.

pj
chgo
 
Last edited:

ktrepal85

Banned
This is the reason. The ball is slightly under the rail and every shot (not just draw shots) hops a little, so it hops up into the overhanging rail and rebounds away.

Hit softly or with a little inside spin to squirt it out and curve it back.

Better yet, don't leave yourself on the rail.

pj
chgo

That actually makes a lot of sense. Although I've never realized it until now, draw actually throws the ball upward(toward the ceiling) and that explains why it hits the rail lip and runs off. This also explains why follow throws the ball downward and allows it to ride under the rail. Thanks!
 

JohnnyP

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Also, the side pockets are a little bigger than they look because the equator of the object ball can go under the point. Very cool.
 

jburkm002

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shots with object ball on the rail or slightly off are what impress me most about pros. No matter the cut angle they just seem to play those shots with ease. I see thin cuts where I might have to consider banking. They just cut it right in.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
This is the reason the CB leaves the rail. The ball is slightly under the rail and every shot (not just draw shots) hops a little, so it hops up into the overhanging rail and rebounds away.

Hit softly or with a little inside spin to squirt it out and curve it back. Better yet, don't leave the CB on the rail.

When the CB isn't on the rail you have to overcut it slightly to allow for contact throw, like any other shot. Shoot it like any other shot at that angle.
Bingo!

For more info and related video demonstrations, see the rail cut shot resource page.

Regards,
Dave
 
Last edited:

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Can anyone explain why when I shoot these two shots with draw the object ball always seems to pull away from the rail? I don't always miss the shot but it always comes off the rail some, maybe an inch, by the time it hits the pocket. If I use high or high inside the ball always stays glued to the rail.
This was explained a long time ago in one of Robert Byrne's books -- probably the "Advanced Technique" one. It was presented as a proposition shot.

If you haven't read Byrne's books on pool, your pool education is not close to complete.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
For those interested, I just posted a new video dealing with this topic. Here it is:

NV J.5 - Straight Rail Shot Effects, and Shooting Past a Side Pocket
Great info as always, Dave.
Thanks Pat! I suspect there are many players out there (even some very good players) who don't know about these effects.


Do you ever sleep?
Yes, but I dream about pool.

This video was fun to do, and it actually didn't take very long (compared to other videos I've done recently).

Catch you later,
Dave

PS: I know "iusedtoberich" doesn't like it when I remind people about the $4000 BU Exam Challenge, but I am hoping you will consider entering. We haven't gotten many entries, and the current scores are not very high. I'm sure you and others here have a good chance at some of the cash. I'd also like to see how well you can do on the Exam with some dedicated practice.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Dave! I’m heading to the table now to attempt to duplicate your frozen to the rail video results. I did not know about the cushion effects. I’ll report back how I did:)
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hi Dave! I’m heading to the table now to attempt to duplicate your frozen to the rail video results. I did not know about the cushion effects. I’ll report back how I did:)
Sounds good. These effects can obviously vary with cushion nose height, cue elevation, and shot speed, but they do affect rail-frozen straight shots on most tables.

Catch you later,
Dave

PS: I'm still waiting for those flowers. :)
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can confirm all that Dr Dave demonstrated was true on his frozen to the rail video.

But, he left out one technique that had really good results, and that is probably well known. (Center inside spin) I am editing my video and will share shortly.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I can confirm all that Dr Dave demonstrated was true on his frozen to the rail video.
Thanks for checking.

But, he left out one technique that had really good results, and that is probably well known. (Center inside spin) I am editing my video and will share shortly.
... probably similar to the last technique I show to go past the side, but this can apply to hugging a cushion between pockets also. I thought of adding that, but I thought the last shot was good enough. I'd like to see your video anyway.

Regards,
Dave

PS: I'm glad you have your camera warmed up now. Hint ... hint! :grin-square:
 
Top