Mike Sigel as a coach/house pro...opinions please

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
I thought his home town was Towson, Md??????

Sorry RandyG. Irondequoit, NY is his original home. Northern suburb of Rochester. Grew up literally next door to my ex. Moved to Towson to learn cuemaking at Joss. Not absolutely sure of that though.

Lyn
 

Skippy9Baller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Skippy,

There is a real good, strong APA Master's League in Frederick at All Star Billiards on Monday nights. You would enjoy the competition there. You will already know a lot of the good players there.
Joe

Thanks for the info. I'll check it out for sure.

Skippy
 

Dangerous Dan

Registered
Mike Sigel as a coach

AZB is reporting that Mike will be the new house pro in Frederick (my neck of the woods). I've always had great respect and admiration for Mike's game. He was the best in the biz, when I was playing a lot.

I was curious if anyone has opinions on how he would be as a coach/instructor and as a house pro. Being a great player does not guarantee he would be "great" at either of those roles.

I look forward to hearing everyone's opinion.

I have taken private lessons from a number of pros, and I have learned more from Mike Sigel than any of them.

In fairness to those other pros, I have spent a lot more time with Mike than with the others. I arranged for Mike to do come clinics and private lessons in our area back in January 2010. We had 19 people for a straight pool clinic in Glen Burnie and several 9-ball and 8-ball clinics in pool halls around the Baltimore, Frederick area.

Thoughout this time, Mike and I got to be pretty good friends and he stayed with me and my wife at my home off and on for a few months in early 2010. Once he worked out a deal with Champion Billiards Sports Cafe in Frederick, he rented an apartment within a 5 minute drive of the pool hall.

I have read alot about Mike on the various forums and I realize that he can be arrogent and self centered, especially in the past. And also Mike is still very cocky about his pool game, he has really mellowed in other ways.

For example, a friend of mine, Donnie, is a SL 7 player who has followed Mike's career since the 1980's. One time (at the first Super Billiards Expo whenever that was), Donnie tried to get Mike to sign an autograph right before a match and Mike grouched at the him and refused to sign unless he would pay for it. As it turns out, some guy used to advise Mike to always charge for autographs and things. A few months back, Donnie told me that Sigel was a great player, but was extremely rude to him and his girlfriend...

I told Donnie that Mike had changed and I reintroduced them. Now, they have played pool together several times and they have even gone fishing together. Donnie said he can't believe how friendly Mike is now compared to before. And by the way, Mike will routinely sign photos and things for free now. I see him do it all of the time.

I asked Mike about his reputation. He said that he always felt that it was easier to beat someone if he wasn't buddy-buddy with them. Of course, this has changed now that Mike is semi-retired.

In regards to the actual pool instruction, I actively take lessons from Mike and we play a few times each week for fun. Last week, I played several straight pool matches with him (race to 150), and was actually ahead of him briefly, until he got warmed up and ran 94 and out on me!

When you take a lesson with Mike, he has asks you to throw balls on the table and asks you to pocket balls. He first evaluates someone's preshot routine, stroke, etc.. When Mike started working with me, he said, "Your stroke is so choppy, if I had to watch it too much, it would put me in a mental hospital!" He even gave me the nickname "The Chopper". :grin:

But I have worked on my stroke and his "spinning drills' over the past few months and my game has picked up. Tuesday night, I played a sl 6 in 9-ball in a 46 to 46 race and won 46 - 27. I also beat a Sl 7 that I had never beaten before. I feel like I now know what to work on.

But it is a lot more than stroke. Mike showed me how to play position the way Irving Crane showed him. Mike hits low on the cue ball on about 80% of his shots and will often come back 2 rails instead of hitting high and going one rail. He can spend 3 or 4 lessons with you just going through drills on various ways to play positon.

To me, the most helpful thing he has showed me so far is what Mike called, "the slow draw drill."

Two years ago, I spent 5 hours playing pool with Mike Massey and I had him coach me on how to do the power draw. Keep the cue level, follow through with a good stroke, etc..

But some of what Mike Sigel said was actually quite different than what Massey showed me. For example, Sigel believes that the cue should alwasy have a slight down angle on a good draw stroke. And he showed me that I was holding the cue too tight, not following through enough, and releasing my wrist too soon. We spend 90 minutes one night with me doing the slow draw drill over and over on my table at my house. This one drill has helped my game more than anything. Mike says, " if you can stroke the ball in the slow draw drill, it will improve your stroke on all shots."

Also, someone in this forum made a comment that "Mike won't show up much and it won't last long". I can tell you that Mike is at Champions 5 days per week. He shows up at around 2:00 PM and stays until about 11:00 PM at night. As to whether it lasts long, that depends on how many lessons and clinics he can give. I know that he is really enjoying it right now, and he plans to do it for one year and see how it goes.

I could go on and on, but I feel like i am writing a book. If you really want to see what it is like, come by some Tuesday or Thursday evening in June and meet Mike. At least for the time being, Mike is playing 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool with anyone who asks... for free.

Two nights ago, he played one pocket for almost 2 hours with a SL 7 player who came to meet him. The guy was amazed at how good Mike is at one pocket. Mike was beating the guy 8 - 1 and 8 -2, scores like that.

By the way, Mike will be gone on a fishing trip for a few weeks in July, but you can come by and meet him before or afte that trip.

Good shooting!
 
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Dangerous Dan

Registered
Sorry RandyG. Irondequoit, NY is his original home. Northern suburb of Rochester. Grew up literally next door to my ex. Moved to Towson to learn cuemaking at Joss. Not absolutely sure of that though.

Lyn

Yes, Mike grew up in the Rochester area, and from age 17 to 21 was on the road (off and on) "gambling" with Larry Hubbart of APA fame. Mike would often gamble under the name "Steve Friedman" and Larry would use differnt names such as "Ralph".

In those 6 years, Mike said he only lost money two times, once to Dave Howard and once to Joe Salazar (SP?).

I have done a bunch of video taped interviews with Mike about his early hustling days. He has some great stories about the first time he played Steve Mizerak in Mizerak's own pool hall in New Jersey! Mike beat Steve out of around $2,500. It is an incredible story.

And I've got taped interviews about Mike's various gambling sessions with everyone from Earl Strickland to Efren Reyes. Mike talks about one time when he went to meet Efren in the Philipines. Mike went into the pool hall late at night and Efren was asleep on the floor under the table with his cue sitting on the talble and a half finished game. When Efren woke up, he went to the bathroom, came back and finished running out the balls on the table, before they played. Great stories, but I digress!

As someone said, Mike moved to Towson, MD to work for about 2 years for Joss cues. He live in MD for 10 to 12 year (not sure exactly), but then moved to Orlando, Florida where he made Sigel Custom Cues. Mike actually lived in a 10,000 SF house within a quarter mile of Tiger Woods. He met Tiger once and would often see him in the area, but didn't know him. But Mike did know some of the other celebrities in the area. For example, he used to go play pool with Chris Tucker (from the Rush Hour movies) at Chris's house.

He sold alot of his expenseive cues overseas, but between the ivory ban in Japan and a glut of other custom cue makers and the downward economy, Mike cue making fizzled out. Around 2007 or 2008 (??), Mike went through some personal issue and moved back into his family home in Rochester for a few years, but sold it in early 2010.

He spend most of early 2010 either staying withe me and my wife or fishing. He did play in 2 Eurotour matches, but if you ask him about what happened there, he gets all upset!! The bottome line, was that he concluded that he doesn't have "enough desire" to play in tournaments to put up with all of the political crap that goes along with it. :grin-square:

In May 2010, Mike moved to Frederick, MD and it working hard to give private lessons, group lessons, and help recruit people for the local APA leagues.

In addition, he has started running a small cash tournament on Monday evenings. I didn't go this week, but he said that about 8 people showed up at the first one, and some SL 5 name Dave, beat an SL 7 named Gabby in the finals.

Mike plans to start some open tournaments (not handicapped) when he gets back from his fishing trip. Either 9-ball or 10-ball, race to 5 on the winners side, race to 3 on the losers side.

If you want to be put on the list to hear about these tournaments, or if you will be traveling to the frederick MD area, and want to line up a private or group lesson with Mike, you can email him at:

ms@frederickchampions.com

Good shooting.
 
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JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
I have taken private lessons from a number of pros, and I have learned more from Mike Sigel than any of them.

In fairness to those other pros, I have spent a lot more time with Mike than with the others. I arranged for Mike to do come clinics and private lessons in our area back in January 2010. We had 19 people for a straight pool clinic in Glen Burnie and several 9-ball and 8-ball clinics in pool halls around the Baltimore, Frederick area.

Thoughout this time, Mike and I got to be pretty good friends and he stayed with me and my wife at my home off and on for a few months in early 2010. Once he worked out a deal with Champion Billiards Sports Cafe in Frederick, he rented an apartment within a 5 minute drive of the pool hall.

I have read alot about Mike on the various forums and I realize that he can be arrogent and self centered, especially in the past. And also Mike is still very cocky about his pool game, he has really mellowed in other ways.

For example, a friend of mine, Donnie, is a SL 7 player who has followed Mike's career since the 1980's. One time, Donnie tried to get Mike to sign an autograph right before a match and Mike grouched at the him and refused to sign unless he would pay for it. As it turns out, some guy used to advise Mike to always charge for autographs and things. A few months back, Donnie told me that Sigel was a great player, but was extremely rude to him and his girlfriend...

I told Donnie that Mike had changed and I reintroduced them. Now, they have played pool together several times and they have even gone fishing together. Donnie said he can't believe how friendly Mike is now compared to before. And by the way, Mike will routinely sign photos and things for free now. I see him do it all of the time.

I asked Mike about his reputation. He said that he always felt that it was easier to beat someone if he wasn't buddy-buddy with them. Of course, this has changed now that Mike is semi-retired.

In regards to the actual pool insturction, I actively take lessons from Mike and we play a few times each week for fun. Last week, I played several straight pool matches with him, and was actually ahead of him briefly, until he got warmed up and ran 94 and out on me!

When you take a lesson with Mike, he has asks you to throw balls on the table and asks you to pocket balls. He first evaluates someone's preshot routine, stroke, etc.. When Mike started working with me, he said, "Your stroke is so choppy, if I had to watch it too much, it would put me in a mental hospital!" He even gave me the nickname "The Chopper". :grin:

But I have worked on my stroke and his "spinning drills' over the past few months and my game has picked up. Tuesday night, I played a sl 6 in 9-ball in a 46 to 46 race and won 46 - 27. I also beat a Sl 7 that I had never beaten before. I feel like I now know what to work on.

But it is a lot more than stroke. Mike showed me how to play position the way Irving Crane showed him. Mike hits low on the cue ball on about 80% of his shots and will often come back 2 rails instead of hitting high and going one rail. He can spend 3 or 4 lessons with you just going through drills on various ways to play positon.

To me, the most helpful thing he has showed me so far is what Mike called, "the slow draw drill."

Two years ago, I spent 5 hours playing pool with Mike Massey and I has him coach me on how to do the power draw. Keep the cue level, follow through with a good stroke, etc..

But some of what Mike Sigel said was actually quite different than what Massey showed me. For example, Sigel believes that the cue should alwasy have a slight down angle on a good draw stroke. And he showed me that I was holding the cue too tight, not following through enough, and releasing my wrist too soon. We spend 90 minutes one night with me doing the slow draw drill over and over on my table at my house. This one drill has helped my game more than anything. Mike says, " if you can stroke the ball in the slow draw drill, it will improve your stroke on all shots."

Also, someone in this forum made a comment that "Mike won't show up much and it won't last long". I can tell you that Mike is at Champions 5 days per week. He shows up at around 2:00 PM and stays until about 11:00 PM at night. As to whether it lasts long, that depends on how many lessons and clinics he can give. I know that he is really enjoying it right now, and he plans to do it for one year and see how it goes.

I could go on and on, but I feel like i am writing a book. If you really want to see what it is like, come by some Tuesday or Thursday evening in June and meet Mike. At least for the time being, Mike is playing 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool with anyone who asks... for free.

Two nights ago, he played one pocket for almost 2 hours with a SL 7 player who came to meet him. The guy was amazed at how good Mike is at one pocket. Mike was beating the guy 8 - 1 and 8 -2, scores like that.

By the way, Mike will be gone on a fishing trip most of July, but you can come by and meet him before or afte that trip.

Good shooting!

DUDE! I can't make it up that way to get a lesson from Mike Siegel but the LEAST you could do for us shut-ins is to give us the details on THE SLOW BALL DRILL. Come on, give it up. Explain what it is and the purpose behind it.
Thanks,
 

Skippy9Baller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just returned from APA league at Champions

DUDE! I can't make it up that way to get a lesson from Mike Siegel but the LEAST you could do for us shut-ins is to give us the details on THE SLOW BALL DRILL. Come on, give it up. Explain what it is and the purpose behind it.
Thanks,

If I would have seen these posts before our league night, I would have got Dan to show me the show draw drill. I'll have to ask him to show me that one.

It was my first night playing in the APA league at Champions in Frederick. Sigel was there the whole time, playing with league members and being very sociable. I got to meet him and speak with him briefly. He seems like a very nice guy. I really enjoy his colorful persona, because it makes him interesting and he often talks through his thought process when he is playing, which I find very interesting. I hope he doesn't get bored or unhappy with what he is doing, because it is good for the pool in this area.

I want to get him playing some straight pool, so he can help me be a 100 ball runner.

Cheers,
Skippy
 

Bamacues

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have taken private lessons from a number of pros, and I have learned more from Mike Sigel than any of them.

Great overall post, Dan. I need to take some lessons from Mike. Is he available most of the time he is at Champions (based on availability, of course), or should I just email him to find out a good time? What is the hourly cost?
Joe
 

SCCues

< Searing Twins
Silver Member
When Mike was in top form playing regularly on the pro tour he was called "Mr. Finals" because he had the best winning record playing in tournament finals. He might go through a whole tournament just getting by in some of his matches, but when he got to the finals he just played perfect and if anyone beat Mike they had to bring a lunch.

Another huge compliment to Mike Sigel came from most people's and mine favorite and best player of all time pick none other than Efren Reyes. Efren was doing commentary (very rare) with Jerry McWorter and Jerry was asking Efren questions during the match and one of the questions Jerry asked Efren was who was the toughest opponent he ever faced and Efren didn't hesitate saying "Mike Sigel was without question the toughest player he's faced". Coming from Efren that's quite a compliment about Mike. I own many many Accu-stats videos and to me nobody played better than Mike when he was in his glory days on the pro tour.........

James
 

Dangerous Dan

Registered
Purpose of the slow draw drill

DUDE! I can't make it up that way to get a lesson from Mike Siegel but the LEAST you could do for us shut-ins is to give us the details on THE SLOW BALL DRILL. Come on, give it up. Explain what it is and the purpose behind it.
Thanks,

There are 2 purposes to the slow draw drill.

1) Mike uses the slow draw drill to analyze someone's stroke and to help them work on it.

2) The other purpose of the slow draw drill is this. When you are faced with a long shot, where you have to draw the ball back, most people (like me) tend to "power" the shot, and that can lead to hitting the ball too hard, which can cause the object ball to rattle in the pocket. Mike noticed me doing that, which is exactly why he said, "Let me work with you awhile on your draw shots."

To start with, Mike has you set an object ball about 8" from the corner pocket and put the cueball in the center of the table. Then he says, "I want to see you hit the cueball as softly as you can, pocket the object ball, but stop the cue ball."

When I did it, he said, "Okay, but now hit it even softer and do the same thing."

I thought it was impossible, but he worked with me on the angle of my shot, the follow thought and the timing of the release of my wrist. He said that I didn't have a good release because I was holding the cue too tightly, etc..

Once you finally get it right, which took me about 20 minutes, he says, 'Okay, not do the same thing, but try to draw the cueball back one foot."

Then you keep going through the same process, and Mike helps you adjust your stroke. The ultimate goal is to be able to stroke though the cueball with a soft stroke but draw the cueball the full lenght of the table.

To succeed, you have to put all of the elements of the stroke together. I still can't do it consistently, but when you do it correctly, it feels great! But me telling you this does not give you the full impact. The real key is that Mike closely watches your stroke and can tell you exactly what you are doing wrong.
 

Dangerous Dan

Registered
Lesson costd

Great overall post, Dan. I need to take some lessons from Mike. Is he available most of the time he is at Champions (based on availability, of course), or should I just email him to find out a good time? What is the hourly cost?
Joe

Joe,

In the past, Mike used to charge $75 per hour for lessons, but because Champions pays him a base salary, he can discount that quite a bit. He charges $50 for a one hour lesson, but he usually runs on more for no extra charge.

Mike prefers to give multi-package lessons, becuase he says you need to have a lesson, practice what he shows you, then come back again in a week or so to review, and learn new stuff.

Lately, he has been doing a lot of 4 lesson package deals. You pay $300 for four 2-hour lessons. Or $80 1st, $80 2nd, $80 3rd and $60 for the fourth lesson.

Mike is also talking about putting together special pricing for a 20 week package, where he videotapes you doing drills at the start and then works with you for 20 weeks and then videotapes you at the end to show improvement.

There are a few students who meet with Mike once each week already on an ongoing basis. And WPBA woman pro, Megan Smith, comes down and plays with Mike for 2 days at a time. She has been her about 3 times in the past 2 months. And people might notice that she has won 1st place in one of the JP Newt Tournaments and also in the MD 9-ball Championships. Megan told me that she is very excited about the improvments in her game based on her training sessions with Mike.

Good shooting.
 

Dangerous Dan

Registered
Another huge compliment to Mike Sigel came from most people's and mine favorite and best player of all time pick none other than Efren Reyes. Efren was doing commentary (very rare) with Jerry McWorter and Jerry was asking Efren questions during the match and one of the questions Jerry asked Efren was who was the toughest opponent he ever faced and Efren didn't hesitate saying "Mike Sigel was without question the toughest player he's faced". Coming from Efren that's quite a compliment about Mike. I own many many Accu-stats videos and to me nobody played better than Mike when he was in his glory days on the pro tour.........

James

James, which accu-stats tape it that? I would like to get a copy.

People don't realize that MIke and Efren were good friends. Mike has visited Efren in the Philipines and Efren (along with 3 or 4 other pros) came to a cook-out at Mike's house in Orlando, Florida during the IPT days.

Mike said that he and Efren have played about 15 times and that Efren won the 1st time, once in the middle and the last time they played (IPT). So Mike has about 12 wins and 3 losses against Efren. Some of those were gambling, not all tournaments.

Most of these matches were in the 1980's when both Mike and Efren were in their prime. But to really look at it, you have to look at all of those tournaments that both played in, but they might not have played each other. Just for example, if Mike and Efren played in 40 common tournaments, and Mike won or placed higher in 30 of those tournaments, then that tells you something too. So you have to look at that, not just their head to head battles.

Mike has alot of respect for Efren and admires how he has kept his game strong even to this date. They are actually within one year of each other in age.
 
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Dangerous Dan

Registered
Another huge compliment to Mike Sigel came from most people's and mine favorite and best player of all time pick none other than Efren Reyes. Efren was doing commentary (very rare) with Jerry McWorter and Jerry was asking Efren questions during the match and one of the questions Jerry asked Efren was who was the toughest opponent he ever faced and Efren didn't hesitate saying "Mike Sigel was without question the toughest player he's faced". Coming from Efren that's quite a compliment about Mike. I own many many Accu-stats videos and to me nobody played better than Mike when he was in his glory days on the pro tour.........

James

James, which accu-stats tape it that? I would like to get a copy.

People don't realize that MIke and Efren were good friends. Mike has visited Efren in the Philipines and Efren (along with 3 or 4 other pros) came to a cook-out at Mike's house in Orlando, Florida during the IPT days.

Mike said that he and Efren have played about 15 times and that Efren won the 1st time, once in the middle and the last time they played (IPT). So Mike has about 12 wins and 3 losses against Efren. Some of those were gambling, not all tournaments.

Mike has alot of respect for Efren and admires how he has kept his game strong even to this date. They are actually within one year of each other in age.
 

Matt_24

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
James, which accu-stats tape it that? I would like to get a copy.

People don't realize that MIke and Efren were good friends. Mike has visited Efren in the Philipines and Efren (along with 3 or 4 other pros) came to a cook-out at Mike's house in Orlando, Florida during the IPT days.

Mike said that he and Efren have played about 15 times and that Efren won the 1st time, once in the middle and the last time they played (IPT). So Mike has about 12 wins and 3 losses against Efren. Some of those were gambling, not all tournaments.

Mike has alot of respect for Efren and admires how he has kept his game strong even to this date. They are actually within one year of each other in age.

Oopss...I mis-quoted...just read the thread above mine, LOL. But yes, Efren did sing Mike's praises in that earlier video. I also remember him saying that Nick Varner was the smartest player. LOL.
 
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meganite

Registered
sigel/champions

Hi all,

For whatever it's worth, I have been around Mike quite a bit lately and I can tell you that Champions could do no better in a house pro/instructor. In my opinion, he is a top notch instructor. He communicates extremely well and is able to articulate concepts in a way that makes it quick to absorb. He is also extremely observant and can find any player's achilles heel in no time....

I know he has been accused of being arrogant, but truth be told, in order to win as much as he has some ego has to come along with that. He is a true champion in my opinion. And a hell of a nice guy personally. Beyond that, his personality and stories alone can entertain people for hours.

Anyway, just my two cents- I know he will be a great asset at Champions and wish him all the best.

Megan Smith
 

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
Hi all,

For whatever it's worth, I have been around Mike quite a bit lately and I can tell you that Champions could do no better in a house pro/instructor. In my opinion, he is a top notch instructor. He communicates extremely well and is able to articulate concepts in a way that makes it quick to absorb. He is also extremely observant and can find any player's achilles heel in no time....

I know he has been accused of being arrogant, but truth be told, in order to win as much as he has some ego has to come along with that. He is a true champion in my opinion. And a hell of a nice guy personally. Beyond that, his personality and stories alone can entertain people for hours.

Anyway, just my two cents- I know he will be a great asset at Champions and wish him all the best.

Megan Smith

It's great to hear other people's perspectives about unique individuals like Siegel. Dan has elaborated more concise information about Mike Siegel than I have read anywhere. (Thanks Dan)

Megan, your opinion and observations are icing on the cake.

Yes, I would take a pool lesson from Mike Siegel. If I get up to the northeast or see Mike at a tournament, I will definitely take Mike up on a lesson but first he will have to prove to me that he can beat me playing one pocket. :D j/k.

Thanks to you and Dan for the info on Mike.

Wishing Mike and Champions all the best.

$11,500 added money, ($150 entry fee, MAX 64 players) 9 ball tournament in Marietta, GA July 9-11 and JoeyA will be there, just in case Mike's interested..........:wink:

Will trade pool lesson for entry fee. :yeah:
 
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Dangerous Dan

Registered
Well, that is nice to know! Around the IPT times is was posted that he was going to give lessons and was charging $500 an hour! Glad to hear that he has come down to earth so others can learn from him!

Neil, in the late 1980's and early 1990's, Mike used to charge much more for lessons, but he was one of the top ranked players at the time and the economy was better.

Now, he gets a base pay from Champion Billiards Sports Cafe, so he doesn't need to charge as much. Plus, the owner of Champions sat down with Mike and they worked out the rates.

He has been very busy with lessons lately. He is leading one more Monday night cash tournament, June 28th, and then a few days later, he will head to Canada for his fishing trip. Mike is going fishng with about 5 other guy He said that they will fly into a remote area of Canada and fish all day long. Sounds boring to me, but he is very excited about it.
 
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