Measles cueball vs Red Circle cueball weight differences

I guess I wasn't very clear in my earlier post, but once again here is my understanding of the differences between cueballs. The red circle is made of the same type of phenolic resin as carom balls, and the blue circle cueball made of the same phenolic resin as the object balls. From what I understand, there are now "measles balls" being made with both types of resins, though the more common one is the aramith super pro which is made with the carom ball resin. The carom ball material is significantly more elastic than the other pheonlic resins used, and can be easily spotted by it's off-white and semi-opaque appearance. There are also cueballs from all sorts of manufacturers made from different materials altogether, like polyester resin for example. Every different material has different elasticity and therefore plays differently. As Bob already stated, more elastic balls will draw better, and less elastic balls will follow better, even if they are the same size, weight, and mass.

/me beats a dead horse

Ok, here is one for ya'll ball experts. Last night I played in a local tourney which was played on 8 foot Gold Crowns with Brunswick Centenial Object balls. My question is about the Cue Balls they were using... The Cue balls where the exact same size as the object balls but were noticeably heavier and had a Blue Marking that looked sort of like a "S." Needless to say it screwed with my shape play quite a bit as I was unable to adapt to it before matches began. Any idea what this mystery ball is?

it seems that desert has it right. i own 3 different " red circle " balls , 2 are 6 oz ball that do not play the same. 1 is an old 5.5 oz ball from the 70"s i also have 2 centennial blue circle balls (6 oz ) that play the same. all the balls are new except the 70"s red circle. material seems to be a large factor in how they play. the red circle balls are from different companies.

Varney Cues said:

A lot of players using thinner shafts often complain about the vibration & noise when using the measle...no issues at all when swapped to a red circle. I do believe that using a measle daily will indeed improve your game.

Click to expand...

Why do you believe that?

Bob Jewett said:

Elasticity is how well a ball will transfer its energy to another ball. On a stop shot, we hope for the object ball to leave with 100% of the cue ball's incoming speed. If the balls are inelastic, the object ball will get only part of the cue ball's speed. A result of this, required by the laws of conservation of energy and momentum, is that the cue ball will retain some of its initial velocity, and be going forward slightly after the collision. This action is much more visible with ivory balls which are much less elastic than pool balls.

One way to measure elasticity is to bounce a ball off a very hard, heavy object, like a steel block. (This gives a situation just like two balls running at each other with the same speed, since neither ball will penetrate the point where they collide, just as the ball will not penetrate (significantly) the steel block.) Neglecting air resistance, the bounce height divided by the starting height gives the square of the "coefficient of restitution" of the collision, and gives a ratio of speeds before and after the collision. Wikipedia has several sections on this stuff.

If a cue ball is inelastic, it will follow well and draw poorly even though it is the same mass as the object ball.

Click to expand...

I'm going to dispute your physics here sir. Irrespective of elasticity, if the weights are equal, the vector is transfered. Period.

JoeyInCali said:

I think you have them mixed up.
Measles is easier on the follow and harder on the draw.
Red circle is slightly opaque in color. Sometimes smaller than Centennial or Aramith pro balls. Easy to draw and harder to follow.

Click to expand...

Don't agree. It's adequately the same weight. I actually contend it's more difficult to draw OR follow. It's just a sh1tty product. It has one gimmicky claim to fame... and I'd only regard it useful when the people who're watching are mesmerized by spin. Pool players know the spin based on the reaction to the rails.... this is for the people who see a 4 ball spinning after a break and are wowed.

I've heard a claim made that the weight of the ball is more towards the outer portion on a measle ball, and the inner portion on a red circle, and others.

RARELY EVER are people in 9 ball trying to make the cue ball travel precisely at parallel tangent. And even when you are playing a billiard or weaving through traffic, 92 degrees or whatever it is, is a worthwhile exchange for to avoid the absolutely unprecedented behavior of this retarded measle ball. In a game where you may be jacked up, straight in and table length as your opponent leaves you... who needs an adversarial ball??

Difficult to draw.
DOESN'T 'TORQUE' when spun of the rail like the red circle.
Once it's traveling, it runs.

I believe to get it to spin much off the rails, you have to spin it harder for equivalent response... which requires managing more swerve (slow(er) spin exacerbates swerve).

Pool is tough enough!

Playing at hard times with 4" (if that) pockets and a cue ball that's goofier than hell, humidity galore... pool feels miserable. I've been trying to deal with this stupid ball for a month and assumed that by now, I must be a little more adapted to the measle turd than the red circle. However, the second I use a red circle it feels like home.

Please southern california... for eff's sake -- 4.5 inch parallel cut corner pockets, flair the sides a little and make them 5 inches (parallel is ridiculous) ... and the red or blue circle.

I challenge anyone to come up with a better paradigm;

Better equipment and better rules more accurately measure differences in skill at ALL levels.

If the equipment or rules are obscuring the reality of who's better... it's time to reevaluate the equipment.

Wasn't the fun of pool being able to say, "I was down 8-5 and ran the set out!" ... or... "did you see ______ run a 6 pack?" Now it's "did you see them nip and tuck and safe and kick and bunt for 2 hours? It was awesome!"

Danny Kuykendal said:

My own experience with the measle ball; harder to draw, easier to follow, like it's heavier. Efren, playing at Hard Times about a year ago was asked about the measle ball and replied "it's hard to draw". I don't use it in my tournaments any more for this reason. It plays like it's a little larger/heavier.

Danny K

Click to expand...

Hope you're doing well Danny - Your tables play tough (for me) ... but you have a good pool hall. So far, its only 1/2 pool halls in LA/OC

Anyone, if you haven't been there... check it out. Pockets cut right, and always air conditioned.

What is your deal? You resurrect a FIVE YEAR OLD thread, just to argue with well known posters...including one the most knowledgable people about the physics of pool on this site. Go troll somewhere else please. Geez...are you PocketPoint again?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

TrumanHW said:

I'm going to dispute your physics here sir. Irrespective of elasticity, if the weights are equal, the vector is transfered. Period.

Click to expand...

Bob Jewett said:

It's not my physics.

Click to expand...

Lol, Bob. Now that's funny.

-td

Varney Cues said:

Chris is confused...Joey is correct. The measle ball is the same size & weight as the Aramith balls...making it easier to follow but harder to draw.

Click to expand...

This makes absolutely NO sense.

TrumanHW:
... [the measles cue ball] is for the people who see a 4 ball spinning after a break and are wowed.

Click to expand...

That's all you can think of? Fortunately for the rest of us, ball manufacturers don't have imaginations as limited as yours.

pj
chgo

cubc said:

I want to thank all who contributed information in this thread. I actually prefer the measles ball as that's what I have on my own table and thats what the tournaments I play at use as well. I just found some very subtle differences in playing with the red circle after spending so many hours this weekend alone just using measles. Usually I switch back and forth so much it doesnt make much of a difference, but Friday - Monday it was all measles until monday night where I noticed the difference.

Adjusting isnt hard for either ball, but I just wanted to bring it up here to get peoples opinions on the matter. Thanks for that.

Click to expand...

Johhny Archer and I talked alot about the two balls this passed weekend at Tunica.He and I both think the red circle ball sucks! But what does he know LOL John B.

Bob Jewett said:

It's not my physics.

Click to expand...

It is your gravity though. I blame you as all of our measle balls are lighter than the red circle balls. Yes, I totally disagree with all of the weights presented here in 2007. I often wonder if they are imitations but they've held up well. I'll have to buy a scale to see how much of a difference there is.

John Brumback said:

Johhny Archer and I talked alot about the two balls this passed weekend at Tunica.He and I both think the red circle ball sucks! But what does he know LOL John B.

Click to expand...

With that said, what CB do JA and JB prefer to use??

Respectively,

Gerry S

bflgvs said:

With that said, what CB do JA and JB prefer to use??

Respectively,

Gerry S

Click to expand...

Measel ball. John B.

Ghosst said:

It is your gravity though. I blame you as all of our measle balls are lighter than the red circle balls. Yes, I totally disagree with all of the weights presented here in 2007. I often wonder if they are imitations but they've held up well. I'll have to buy a scale to see how much of a difference there is.

Click to expand...

I suppose it is possible the measles ball weighs less. Thinking of it from a marketing standpoint, players love draw so if I'm a ball manufacturer and I want to sell more balls I would probably like my ball to be easier to draw, especially my premium ball that I have a higher profit margin on. So to get more draw out of my CB I would manufacture it to the low side of the weight specs.

Not saying that is what Aramith is doing; I have no idea. But it's a thought.

Of course, if your measle ball came with the set, it should weigh very close to the rest of the balls (when new anyway) seeing as the Super Pros are a matched set.

mikepage said:

Damn! I was really hoping the gravitational potential energy of the balls dropping into the pockets and rolling down to the sensor was at play.

Click to expand...

Mike, if the balls are dropping and rolling(motion) would it not be kinetic instead of potential energy?

DogsPlayingPool said:

I suppose it is possible the measles ball weighs less. Thinking of it from a marketing standpoint, players love draw so if I'm a ball manufacturer and I want to sell more balls I would probably like my ball to be easier to draw, especially my premium ball that I have a higher profit margin on. So to get more draw out of my CB I would manufacture it to the low side of the weight specs.

Not saying that is what Aramith is doing; I have no idea. But it's a thought.

Of course, if your measle ball came with the set, it should weigh very close to the rest of the balls (when new anyway) seeing as the Super Pros are a matched set.

Click to expand...

The measle ball is harder to draw than the red circle. John B. I know you used the red circle for years and I think you will agree its what your use to. I played with the measel ball for the first time a couple of months ago and there is a big difference and will take some getting use to.