USPPA & Jump Cue Ban.. by Tony Annigoni

Jump Cues


  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .

Tom In Cincy

AKA SactownTom
Silver Member
From the horse's mouth;

I agree with everything written below. I also admit, I couldn't have done a better job than Tony did writting this position paper

Position Paper – Jump Cues. By Tony Annigoni


In light of our recent change in policy discontinuing use of Jump Cues, I would like to elaborate on some of the reasons behind this decision:

First and foremost, despite assurances to the contrary by manufacturers, the proliferation of jump cues not only alters the tradition behind the game, but also without question affects the cloth and the overall playing condition of the table.

Despite numerous attempts by self-proclaimed billiard experts to use golf as a comparison, golf is simply not an appropriate analogy. The playing surface in golf is not one that consists of a flat or regular substance throughout.

Having lived part time for 5 years in Monterey one of the most spectacular and historic golf Mecca’s of our time, I have had the opportunity to discuss this with numerous golf industry experts. It is a matter of fact that golf courses that have spectacular changes in elevation, surface, length of rough etc. are well prized for their difficulty as well as their drama and beauty. Currently the golf industry in general is struggling with improvements in technology that allow the average player to hit balls as straight and distant as Tiger Woods who regularly spends numerous hours correcting and perfecting mechanics tendencies in order to preserve the history and integrity of the golf record books as well as the mystery and right of passage required to attain his skill level.

I find it surprising that prominent members of the billiard inteligencia, might not consider snooker as a corroborating reference. They certainly have simplified the matter by outlawing jump shots and masse's. While swerve is allowed, any shot that could possibly result in a foul stroke is regulated against, including being allowed a free shot away from a frozen ball. It is not surprising to me that snooker is frequently played in front of large crowds for 1st place money as large as 300,000 pounds, while billiards and pool languish in obscurity. The great games as we knew them are currently reduced to sideshows such as trick shot competitions and glorified tit’s and ass reviews. The perhaps unintended result is the great players of our age being forced to travel the countryside, like aging gunslingers or displaced samurai known in feudal Japan as Ronin

I will certainly give the industry credit for lack of business sense in this case for supporting continued rules aberrations that relieve players from the need to develop skills one might acquire playing three cushion, carom, and snooker thus further reducing the need to continue to support these games financially. Fortunately, the rise of the playing contingents from billiard playing countries emerging on the pocket billiard scene may stem the tide as their skill in safety and escape from same, given today’s rules, increase their opportunity to dominate most fields.

Personally, I suppose it might have been the path of least resistance to simply have pursued snooker some 35 years ago. But that was then and this is now. Fortunately, the USPPA and Tony Annigoni are not beholden to any billiard industry entity other than our own, and will not be influenced by patrimony now or in the future.

My challenge to debate all sanctimonious self proclaimed billiard experts remains open. Perhaps the BCA Trade Show would be the proper forum. Heaven forbid anyone would have to justify their position in public rather than hidden behind the cloak of a computer screen a la The Wizard of Oz........Of course we could always have the manufacturers start making a table that isn't a 2 to 1 playing surface ratio, or one with sand as part of the composition so we could employ real pitching wedges as opposed to the surrogates in use now. I am sure that would go along well with the recent trend toward selling tables in home sauna outlets.

Thank the universe that Billiard Digest is not the only " journalistic outlet" and I use the term loosely, not as loosely as the BCA specs for tables however............

When conditions exist that would have Ewa Mataya enter the Hall of Fame prior to Jose Parica, perhaps the greatest cueist of this or any age, the voice of reason must be heard. While no one would doubt the numerous contributions Ewa has made to the Industry, the differential in playing skill must be taken into account. If any thing, the Hall of Fame should not in my opinion be a popularity contest.

But don't fret, I won't pick on the current billiard fraternity anymore, I am too busy making sure that everyone has a good reason to play billiards instead of just talking about it.

In Closing, I would like to hazard that I highly doubt we would be enjoying the artistry of Efren Reyes kicking a ball three rails, clipping the edge of the object ball and re-snookering his opponent, had some patrimonious billiard manufacturer handed him a novelty cue at age 11, instead of walking him to a carom table to hone his skills


Regards,

Tony Annigoni

Managing Partner USPPA
Principal Two Cushion Club
Principal Couture Events / Couture Marketing
 

Troy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tony has had a burr in his saddle about jump cues for quite a while. The Reno Sands very recently banned their use. It's no surprise the USPPA has also banned jump cues.

Troy
 

thebigdog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I couldn't agree more

I am so glad that jump cues will be banned from USPPA. I just hope that others will follow. I am no fan of jump cues, as I have posted in the past. I think this is a step in the right direction for the USPPA and the other billiard oganizations should follow.
 

titanic

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jump Cues ???????

I Grew Up In A Town Known For Snooker Players.there Was One Place With 5 Pool Tables And One 6x12 Snooker Table, Another Place With 5 Pool Tables And A 5x10 Snooker Table ,another Place With 6 Pool Tables And A 5x10 Snooker Table And The Last Place Had 3 Pool Tables And A5x10 And A 6x12 Snooker Table.

If You Played Snooker You Had To Learn How To Kick For The Ball Or You Had No Chance To Win.

The 6x12 Tables Usually Had A Long Bamboo Pole With A Tip On The End. Using A Bridge Most Times You Were Not Actually Trying To Pocket The Object Ball You Were Just Trying To Hit It So As Not To Lose Any Points.

Being Short I Always Envisioned Some Kind Of Holder I Could Attach Like A Backpack To Save Time Reaching Under The Table To Use It.

With The Experience I Got From Playing Snooker.....in All Other Games If I Am Not Frozen To A Ball Almost All The Time I Can Figure A Path To The Object Ball.

The Tables Were Not Covered That Often And Everyone Respected The Owners Investment, Giving Us A Good Venue To Play In. You Did Not Want To Be The One Who Damaged The Equipment As Others Had To Also Use It. In Those Days Not Many Players Or Hustlers Carried Their Own Cue Stick.

But I Digress......if You Allow Jump Cues What Will You Do When The Technology Comes Up With Spin Cues, Draw Cues, Bank Angle Finder Cues Etc. The List Would Go On And On.

The Other Day Someone Told Me I Was A Fool To Use Sandpaper To Smooth The Shaft Of My Cue. I Told Them I Would Give Them My Shaft And 500 Pieces Of Sandpaper And Would Bet They Would Give Up And Not Have Put Much Of A Dent In Reducing The Size Of That Shaft.

Even In My Era It Seemed Mostly The Older Guys Played 3 Cushion. But If You Played It A Little Playing Position In The Other Games Made A Lot More Sense And Was A Lot Easier.

Titanic Jerry
 

yobagua

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ban the jump shot?

If you are going to ban the jump cue then you must ban the jump shot. I have a friend who is 6'2". He jumps balls easy with his own cue. I who am 5'7" have to stand on tip toes to get elevation. Its impossible when the cue ball is in the middle of the table. The jump cue makes it even.
 

longhair

Boyd Porter-Reynolds
Silver Member
yobagua said:
If you are going to ban the jump cue then you must ban the jump shot. I have a friend who is 6'2". He jumps balls easy with his own cue. I who am 5'7" have to stand on tip toes to get elevation. Its impossible when the cue ball is in the middle of the table. The jump cue makes it even.
yobagua,
I sympathize. Being tall does give them an advantage. However, tall folks already have an advantage, especially on a big table. What can a smaller player do? Use a bridge, usually.
It seems to me that a rule saying that you can't switch to a different cue for a jump shot or that every cue has to be some minimum length would be easier to enforce than a rule against jump shots. How do we determine what is a jump shot and what isn't? If I need to draw from a position close to the rail the cueball will leave the table. When would that be allowed and when would it not be allowed?
Don't get me wrong, if the rule is NO JUMP SHOTS I won't shoot any and I won't complain about it. I just like rules that don't need referees all the time.
How is the jump shot rule regarded and enforced in canada?

Peace,
 

LastTwo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Really short people should get some platform shoes if they hate using the bridge. They may look funny, but at least they won't go broke.
 

titanic

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tap Tap Tap

Tom in Cincy,
Thank you for the compliment which a lot of readers probably did not understand.
In the old days pool rooms had wooden floors.
When a game finished you tapped fairly loudly to get the attention of the rack man who upon hearing the tap tap tap would come to your table and rack them up for the next game.
When a player made a nice shot you would tap your cue on the floor as a compliment.
There was a subtle difference in the two sounds that everyone could hear and understand.
Thanks for bringing back the memories of days gone by.
I also remember if you played a dumb shot like tapping the cue ball and not trying to bank for the ball ( there was no such thing as ball in hand ) you would find no one would play with you.It was like a rite of passage lesson to be learned.
There was also a definite pecking order which demanded respect. You did not walk into a pool room and have an attitude. Someone would either beat you playing pool or kick your ass or maybe both.
I don't mean to ramble or dwell in the past . Forgive me for that but I was impressed with your Tap , Tap, Tap reply.
Before the changes to 9 ball if you made the 9 ball and scratched the 9 ball was spotted and your opponent was given ball in hand behind the line.
Why penalize the player who went for the tough cut shot or bank and scfratched.We used to have ring games of just shooting spot shots.
Oh well. Times change.Not always for the best as in the invention of the jump stick.Regardless of how tall you are you should be able to use the mechanical bridge. That is why it was invented.
If you play much snooker on a 6x12 you will get real good with a bridge.
Titanic Jerry
 
I

instroke

Guest
Mr. Annigoni,

I suppose that I am one of those "patrimonious" manufacturers that you speak of and I am more than willing to debate you on this topic. What better public place than this forum which is read daily by thousands and perhaps millions of billiard enthusiasts? Furthermore, everything written here is part of the record.

A little later I will quote your letter and disect it point for point.

Sincerely,

John Barton
former manufacturer of jump cues and patron of the cuesports.
 

Rickw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yobagua,

I watched this player, Bucktooth, jump the cue ball with only about a 30% angle of his cue, and he used his regular playing cue too. I've never seen anyone elevate so minimally and still jump the ball like that. If I have to choose between jumping the ball and shooting a masse' shot, I'll shoot the masse' almost every time but that's just my preference. I would like to see the jump cue eliminated but not the jump shot with a regular playing cue.


yobagua said:
If you are going to ban the jump cue then you must ban the jump shot. I have a friend who is 6'2". He jumps balls easy with his own cue. I who am 5'7" have to stand on tip toes to get elevation. Its impossible when the cue ball is in the middle of the table. The jump cue makes it even.
 

senor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
yobagua said:
If you are going to ban the jump cue then you must ban the jump shot. I have a friend who is 6'2". He jumps balls easy with his own cue. I who am 5'7" have to stand on tip toes to get elevation. Its impossible when the cue ball is in the middle of the table. The jump cue makes it even.

Ban the jump shot because of a height dis/advantage? C'mon now, let's get realistic. Tell Lennox Lewis not to use his reach advantage, tell Shaq not to use his strength advantage...it doesn't make much sense. Whenever physical skills are involved, someone might have a natural advantage over another, and you just have to deal with it. Banning jump shots with a full length cue takes a lot of creativity out of the game, imo.
 

catscradle

<< 2 all-time greats
Silver Member
instroke said:
Mr. Annigoni,

I suppose that I am one of those "patrimonious" manufacturers that you speak of and I am more than willing to debate you on this topic. What better public place than this forum which is read daily by thousands and perhaps millions of billiard enthusiasts? Furthermore, everything written here is part of the record.

A little later I will quote your letter and disect it point for point.

Sincerely,

John Barton
former manufacturer of jump cues and patron of the cuesports.

What better place? How about face to face? Then there can be a little give and take without all the flame wars that these discussions always wind up being via posts.
I'm not expressing an opinion on the main topic here, just one on how it would best be discussed.
 

deadstroke32

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
catscradle said:
What better place? How about face to face? Then there can be a little give and take without all the flame wars that these discussions always wind up being via posts.
I'm not expressing an opinion on the main topic here, just one on how it would best be discussed.

Sometime a go jump q's were band on the pro tour . Some of things people were come up with was jus nuts .So bannig jump q'z form events it good and it is bad .Most people can't jump with a whole cue. But can with a short jump cue. So now back to the table to work on jumping with a whole cue agian..What is next can't use super hard tips to break????? :rolleyes:
Some day it will get better.
 

Mungtor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
yobagua said:
If you are going to ban the jump cue then you must ban the jump shot. I have a friend who is 6'2". He jumps balls easy with his own cue. I who am 5'7" have to stand on tip toes to get elevation. Its impossible when the cue ball is in the middle of the table. The jump cue makes it even.

So having a shorter cue helps you reach the middle of the table? I'm not quite sure that I understand that (but then, I'm 6'3 and don't jump).

If you find it that much of an advantage, play with a 50" cue all the time. I'm sure that you could adjust to it and jump. You've gotta weigh the pros and cons.

I don't have a real problem with anybody jumping if they play with one cue.

edit - 04/06/04

The alternative if you don't want to be stuck playing with a short cue all the time, just don't jump.
 
Last edited:

Tom In Cincy

AKA SactownTom
Silver Member
Duck Farting under water

instroke said:
Mr. Annigoni,

I suppose that I am one of those "patrimonious" manufacturers that you speak of and I am more than willing to debate you on this topic. What better public place than this forum which is read daily by thousands and perhaps millions of billiard enthusiasts? Furthermore, everything written here is part of the record.

A little later I will quote your letter and disect it point for point.

Sincerely,

John Barton
former manufacturer of jump cues and patron of the cuesports.

John,

You've voiced your opinion quite often about this subject, all against the 'ban' of jump cues. Your 'professional expertise' about how jump cues work and how you can train and give exhibitions is very well documented.

I've just one question.

All the years you've been in the Pool industry, all the players that use your product, all the times you've given exhibitions, all the teachings about how to use Jump cues, all of these pool related aspects;

HOW MUCH Money (CASH) have you given back to the game that you say you are a PATRON, in the form of ADDED money (CASH) in a tournament?

The USPPA averages about $70,000 a year of ADDED Money (CASH) for it's tournaments for the players. The Sands in Reno contributes a lot of that.

When another pool industry PATRON, wants to match that, maybe, just maybe, that voice might be heard.

Until then, it's like a duck farting under water...

Tom Suarez
Tournament Director
Hard Times Billiards Sacramento, CA.
916-332-8793
 

gwvavases

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can someone explain why jump CUES are being banned but not jump SHOTS? I don't jump and don't have a jump cue, so I'm really just an observer about this. I first played this game over 30 years ago, and jumping was unheard of back then (except by trick shot artists). It seems to me that if anything is going to be banned, it should be the SHOT that is banned, not the cues. The argument seems to be that jump shots can potentially damage the table/cloth. Well...is that damage more or less likely with a regular cue than with a jump cue?
 

Purdman

Banned
Jump Cues

I honestly think the game should go back to the way it was in the sixtys. No jump cues, no ball in hand, no BS. Get back behind the line.
Don P. :cool:
 

Troy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tap, tap, tap........

Troy
Tournament Director
Campbell Billiards
Various USPPA Events

Tom In Cincy said:
John,

You've voiced your opinion quite often about this subject, all against the 'ban' of jump cues. Your 'professional expertise' about how jump cues work and how you can train and give exhibitions is very well documented.

I've just one question.

All the years you've been in the Pool industry, all the players that use your product, all the times you've given exhibitions, all the teachings about how to use Jump cues, all of these pool related aspects;

HOW MUCH Money (CASH) have you given back to the game that you say you are a PATRON, in the form of ADDED money (CASH) in a tournament?

The USPPA averages about $70,000 a year of ADDED Money (CASH) for it's tournaments for the players. The Sands in Reno contributes a lot of that.

When another pool industry PATRON, wants to match that, maybe, just maybe, that voice might be heard.

Until then, it's like a duck farting under water...

Tom Suarez
Tournament Director
Hard Times Billiards Sacramento, CA.
916-332-8793
 
I

instroke

Guest
Tom In Cincy said:
John,

You've voiced your opinion quite often about this subject, all against the 'ban' of jump cues. Your 'professional expertise' about how jump cues work and how you can train and give exhibitions is very well documented.

I've just one question.

All the years you've been in the Pool industry, all the players that use your product, all the times you've given exhibitions, all the teachings about how to use Jump cues, all of these pool related aspects;

HOW MUCH Money (CASH) have you given back to the game that you say you are a PATRON, in the form of ADDED money (CASH) in a tournament?

The USPPA averages about $70,000 a year of ADDED Money (CASH) for it's tournaments for the players. The Sands in Reno contributes a lot of that.

When another pool industry PATRON, wants to match that, maybe, just maybe, that voice might be heard.

Until then, it's like a duck farting under water...

Tom Suarez
Tournament Director
Hard Times Billiards Sacramento, CA.
916-332-8793


Before I answer your question let me ask you where the "added" money comes from? Does the USPPA have a magic fountain of money that the added money comes from? Or does it come from the players contributions? Or does it come from sponsors? If it comes from sponsors then what do the sponsors get out of it? The warm and fuzzy feeling? It is obvious what the Sands gets out of adding a little money, relatively speaking, when the players are trapped in their hotel and gambling establishment. I have never seen the Sands ship money to any other tournament but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Now to answer your question, Instroke has donated well over $350,000 in product and cash to billiard leagues, tournaments and players during the last 13 years in business. Instroke's mail is full of testimonials from satisfied league ops, tournament directors and players who were thrilled with our contributions. Now, that's not much during a 13 year period but it certainly isn't chickenfeed either and it's what our budget would bear.

Mr. Annigoni was the one who used the word patronizing, not I. Perhaps he should choose his words more carefully before he jumps on the soapbox.

John Barton
 
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