straight parts, not so straight roll

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
Gentlemen,
Just what is it that would allow the shaft and the butt to roll straight separately but when you put them together the tip flops around like a fish?
OK, maybe it's not that bad, but the butt does roll straight as far as I can tell, and I have watched it many times trying to figure this out. The shaft does have a slight (what do they call it?) - a taper roll, not much at all, maybe a small fish.
Thanks.
 

TomHay

Best Tips For Less
Gold Member
Silver Member
Could be your joint or shaft end are not faced off right.
 

Trent

Banned
Go to a cue repair man have him stick the pieces up between centers and face the butt and shaft that should fix it.

screw the cue together and hold it up to the light and look closely at where the cue goes together if you can see light between the faces or a gap then thats probably it.
 

GBCues

Damn, still .002 TIR!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I would agree that (at first blush) it sounds like the joint faces simply need to be trued up to each other.

You list your location as "Colorado" - I'm in the south Denver area and could help you out with that if my location is convenient for you.

Send me a PM if you like.

Gary
 

scdiveteam

Rick Geschrey
Silver Member
Hi,

Roll it with the wrap on the rail and watch to see if the joint bobs up and down in the air.

Rick
 

pdcue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gentlemen,
Just what is it that would allow the shaft and the butt to roll straight separately but when you put them together the tip flops around like a fish?
OK, maybe it's not that bad, but the butt does roll straight as far as I can tell, and I have watched it many times trying to figure this out. The shaft does have a slight (what do they call it?) - a taper roll, not much at all, maybe a small fish.
Thanks.

I think the gods are punishing you for rolling a cue on a pool table.
Or the rails of a pool table. Or the shipping crate of a pool table.
Or the floor under a pool table.

If it has a true taper roll, that should not make the tip end bounce.
If, however, the shaft is warped, that could do it.

Sight down the shaft like a rifle.

All will be revealed.

Dale(president of the friends don't let friends roll cues association)
 
Last edited:

Cue Crazy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LOL, no doubt. All that rolling cues seems to achieve is putting the mo jo in your head. Not good for Your game, but sometimes It's hard to ignore a serious flop.

Chances are It's in the facings, but It could be in the taper roll just the same. If the two screw together really snug, then It could be a pin or insert issue as well, but It would have to be so snug, and/or out of alignment/bent, what have ya, that It isn't letting the faces seat properly.
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
I think the gods are punishing you for rolling a cue on a pool table.
Or the rails of a pool table. Or the shipping crate of a pool table.
Or the floor under a pool table.

If it has a true taper roll, that should not make the tip end bounce.
If, however, the shaft is warped, that could do it.

Sight down the shaft like a rifle.

All will be revealed.

Dale(president of the friends don't let friends roll cues association)

Not a fan of rolling a cue to check for straightness, heh?
I agree, it's not the best method, but can be used for a quick determination of sorts.
In this particular case, the jnt. faces are suspect.
Connect the shaft & tighten. Roll the cue. It wobbles.
OK, now loosen the shaft about an 1/8 of a turn and roll it again.
If the wobble has now disappeared, it's likely that the jnt. needs faced.

People are very quick to think their pin is bent. Why, I don't know.
999 times out of 1,000 it's not the pin.
Try bending a 3" long pc of 5/16 or 3/8 stainless steel threaded rod and tell us how you make out.
You ain't going to do it by hand.

As to the pin bottoming-out and not allowing the faces to properly mate,
what CM drills the hole in the shaft the exact same depth as the length of the exposed pin?
"Oh, I'm trying to be more perfect than everyone else". Really???
And you never thought that at some point in the future, your perfect cue wouldn't need facings???

The cue in question, in this thread anyway, sounds as though the faces aren't true to one another.
A very light cut of the faces, usually .001" or less will remedy the flopping-fish syndrome.
If the cue is inspected properly, you may have to cut only one face.

KJ
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
Did the cue roll straight before ?

The shaft is a recent acquisition, within the past couple of months. The cue I've had since the mid 90's. The original shaft has always had the slightest of bows, the kind you have to get right down to "roll level" to watch. Other shafts appear to roll straight when attached to this butt - for the most part. This new shaft when attached to other butts has the same "flop" appearance, but generally less severe, sometimes hardly noticeable.
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
The shaft is a recent acquisition, within the past couple of months. The cue I've had since the mid 90's. The original shaft has always had the slightest of bows, the kind you have to get right down to "roll level" to watch. Other shafts appear to roll straight when attached to this butt - for the most part. This new shaft when attached to other butts has the same "flop" appearance, but generally less severe, sometimes hardly noticeable.

Process of elimination.
Your new shaft needs to be refaced.

KJ
 

Cue Crazy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I concur, If other shafts roll fine with the handle, then the problem sounds to be limited to the shaft. Have someone that knows their stuff try to reface It for you, and see if that helps. If nothing else, they should be able to tell you if the shaft is warped or if there's a issue with the insert. Even a minor issue that someone might not see rolling a cue out on a table will be magnified 10 fold on a lathe.
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
I bow to your obviously superior insight.
However, I'll stick to my 1 out of 1,000 ratio of the problem being a bent pin.
You've apparently encountered the one exception, in both cases.
In diagnosing a problem, I first try to rule-out the obvious/most common before looking for the exception.
Shame on me for that but it usually saves a lot of time.
So which one are you going with, bent pin or shallow hole?

KJ
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
Did I ever say a bent pin is a common problem? It's obviously a real phenomena though, or it wouldn't get discussed right?

Do you ever remember posting this:

"I can't remember ever seeing a pin bent so bad that it couldn't be straightened"

...or this:

"There's no more stress involved in straightening the pin as there was to bend it in the first place"

...or this:

"Or......You could just straighten the bent pin.
But I guess that would be too simple.
Not enough drama."


Just three examples here, but a quick search shows you've posted on the topic as much as anyone.

As far as giving advise on a cue problem, I'll post whatever the heck I want. Right or wrong KJ, it ain't your place to chastise.

You're to be congratulated for looking all that up. Thank you for not taking it out of context.
Yes, bent pins do exist and I'll admit to seeing my share. In 25 yrs of repairing cues I've seen a lot.
Please understand that I work for a rather large dealership, 7 days a week and see considerably
more work than the average repair-tec. In that 25 yrs, I've seen maybe 10 pins that were actually bent.
I'm not being cavalier in stating that bent pins are a rarity, though a lot of people think theirs is.

In post #12, the OP states: "Other shafts appear to roll straight when attached to this butt."
That does not suggest to me that the pin is bent. My suggestion of trying to bend the 3" pin by hand was to
illustrate that the pin is a lot stronger than some think.
After we established that the problem is more likely in the new shaft, you want to contradict me with:

".....add a 2ft of leverage to each side and watch how easily it'll bend."

The pin is not the problem, at least given what was presented.

I'm at a loss to find where I've chastised you in this thread. If you honestly feel that I have, I then
apologize for whatever I've written that would lead you to believe that.
No one is arguing your right to post whatever the heck you want, particularly if it's meant to help the OP.
Was your last post meant to help the OP or to contradict me?
Given your efforts at a 'search' and quoting 3 different posts of mine, I'm guessing the latter.
That will usually draw a response. You do sound upset though and you shouldn't be. Why???

KJ
 
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