Please Explain Your "Aiming System"?

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thicker is better than not for the many amateurs who over and again severely overcut shots.

Thats only relavant if an amateur makes a decision early in what direction of improvement level they wish to achieve. I made my decision of getting on both sides, after years of "thick", and it ingrained severe problems that made and still makes it hard to get on the other side of the cueball.

I agree though, the thick side is one of the sides that has to be mastered as well. Any way, I see things totally different as to what "is" and what is accepted. I'm often told im wasting my time and going against certain physics and grain, but then i got to hear all the hero worship from the same people about how so and so can bend shots better or like no one else OR the classic one about how one wants to get better, but they want to have fun, but they want to get better, but they want to have fun, 2+2=4, 2+2=5, 2+2=4, 2+2=5.

Heres the problem, the amateur doesnt know this decision because nobody is addressing it the same as.... heres a popsicle stick shaft that is the answer to most problems.

I go a step further in saying "missing" is NOT acceptable. I have not found one shred of evidence yet saying that it should be, regardless of the concept being unreasonable and what status quo says.

I got problems with your statement sir because you make it sound as if its ok and maybe im wrong because i dont have esp obviously but you sure as hell sound permissive.

Any way, have a nice day and i mean it, not trying to be a smart ass.
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well wait.... I thought the size of the table; 2 X 1, meant that CTE works! Meant that the balls go toward the holes (because of the 2 X 1 table gearing action). You're at the other end of the table and the 9 ball is sitting stuck to the 4 ball and into the pocket at the other end. The balls are tied up and you've got to hit the one ball toward the shot 6" away from the corner pocket into the 4 ball to sink the 9 ball. How does that happen when everything is geared toward the pockets? NOW, you're going to tell me you have to rely on your old method of aiming instead of CTE?

Ducky, is that you lol
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree with the point about showing someone where to aim doesn't mean they'll be able to do it. But the accuracy in aiming straight toward a distant aim point on the back of the OB is no less accurate than getting multiple "known" visuals on this distant OB. And then in the end, when you have a CB solution, the challenge of stroking that CB exactly down that solved line is no less challenging than aiming at the back of the OB at that distance.

There are two types of errors in a pool shot. Judgement errors and accuracy errors.

Judgement errors are introduced when the player has to guess or estimate where to aim.

Accuracy errors are introduced in the alignment and execution of the stroke. We are all familiar with how to work to develop a 'straight' stroke and good alignment. Accuracy errors are the same for *almost* every aiming system.

Judgement errors though can vary widely between aiming systems.

Shots like hitting a ball straight in or ghost ball have multiple layers of judgement errors. Center of cuestick has to be judged. Center of cueball. Contact point has to be judged. Ghost ball center has to be judged. etc...

If you're off by 1/16" estimating the center of cue tip to center of OB and then 1/16" off on the contact point and another 1/16" estimating the aim point or ghost ball center. Those errors add up. They could cancel each other out some but they all add up. If they are all on the same side you will miss the shot. If they cancel each other out you'll make the shot in spite of yourself. Which is what I think most players with poor fundamentals do. They develop aiming judgements that offset their poor accuracy. Sometimes. So they make shots almost randomly and can't figure out why they missed most of the time.

Aiming systems reduce judgement errors and some even reduce accuracy errors.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thicker is better than not for the many amateurs who over and again severely overcut shots.

You must have made a mistake in that. Watch the rank amateurs and see them hit balls thick and even thicker.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
actually i use contact point to contact point most of the time and fractions sometimes
cant wait for stan to come out with his new material so i can buy the book and watch the videos
always looking to improve and as a student of the game be knowledgeable
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
There are two types of errors in a pool shot. Judgement errors and accuracy errors.

Judgement errors are introduced when the player has to guess or estimate where to aim.

Accuracy errors are introduced in the alignment and execution of the stroke. We are all familiar with how to work to develop a 'straight' stroke and good alignment. Accuracy errors are the same for *almost* every aiming system.

Judgement errors though can vary widely between aiming systems.

Shots like hitting a ball straight in or ghost ball have multiple layers of judgement errors. Center of cuestick has to be judged. Center of cueball. Contact point has to be judged. Ghost ball center has to be judged. etc...

If you're off by 1/16" estimating the center of cue tip to center of OB and then 1/16" off on the contact point and another 1/16" estimating the aim point or ghost ball center. Those errors add up. They could cancel each other out some but they all add up. If they are all on the same side you will miss the shot. If they cancel each other out you'll make the shot in spite of yourself. Which is what I think most players with poor fundamentals do. They develop aiming judgements that offset their poor accuracy. Sometimes. So they make shots almost randomly and can't figure out why they missed most of the time.

Aiming systems reduce judgement errors and some even reduce accuracy errors.

Good post. I totally agree.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Thats only relavant if an amateur makes a decision early in what direction of improvement level they wish to achieve. I made my decision of getting on both sides, after years of "thick", and it ingrained severe problems that made and still makes it hard to get on the other side of the cueball.

I agree though, the thick side is one of the sides that has to be mastered as well. Any way, I see things totally different as to what "is" and what is accepted. I'm often told im wasting my time and going against certain physics and grain, but then i got to hear all the hero worship from the same people about how so and so can bend shots better or like no one else OR the classic one about how one wants to get better, but they want to have fun, but they want to get better, but they want to have fun, 2+2=4, 2+2=5, 2+2=4, 2+2=5.

Heres the problem, the amateur doesnt know this decision because nobody is addressing it the same as.... heres a popsicle stick shaft that is the answer to most problems.

I go a step further in saying "missing" is NOT acceptable. I have not found one shred of evidence yet saying that it should be, regardless of the concept being unreasonable and what status quo says.

I got problems with your statement sir because you make it sound as if its ok and maybe im wrong because i dont have esp obviously but you sure as hell sound permissive.

Any way, have a nice day and i mean it, not trying to be a smart ass.

No sweat, no problem. Feedback is always welcomed.

Because they may not know about collision-induced throw and etc. a lot of amateurs when they miss overcut shots by two diamonds! They need to soften up their grip and stroke in many cases and aim more thickly.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
No sweat, no problem. Feedback is always welcomed.

Because they may not know about collision-induced throw and etc. a lot of amateurs when they miss overcut shots by two diamonds! They need to soften up their grip and stroke in many cases and aim more thickly.

Amazing! Must be the West Coast vs. the East Coast. Here misses are undercuts or too thick on the cut shots. Most amateurs miss by hitting the ball too thick. You just said; "(they miss the collision-induced throw and etc.), that miss makes the OB go straighter and hit the pocket too thick. I still think you've made a mistake in the way you are describing it. In practice, I try to hit the pockets at a thinner angle and perfect is a #5 (the thinnest). On rail shots, I try to make the ball hit 3/4" outside the pocket and never hit the rail it's next to. An over cut (the thinnest). Different strokes, I guess.
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
For years, in leagues and in bars, I've noticed novice players over-cut balls quite often. They can see it's not close to straight in, and they simply over-estimate the cut angle. The same thing happens when most players try combination shots...they almost always over-cut the first ball.

Tonight is BCA league night, and if we play a lower level team I'll note the misses shots and report my findings.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
For years, in leagues and in bars, I've noticed novice players over-cut balls quite often. They can see it's not close to straight in, and they simply over-estimate the cut angle. The same thing happens when most players try combination shots...they almost always over-cut the first ball.

Tonight is BCA league night, and if we play a lower level team I'll note the misses shots and report my findings.

I'm talking about cut shots; the OB is sitting on X=1, and Y=1, and the CB is X=7, and Y=1, A nice 45 degree cut shot. In my experience most will undercut it and hit the end rail.
Maybe I'm in a different world here in Oregon.....
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm talking about cut shots; the OB is sitting on X=1, and Y=1, and the CB is X=7, and Y=1, A nice 45 degree cut shot. In my experience most will undercut it and hit the end rail.
Maybe I'm in a different world here in Oregon.....

Hmmmm.....maybe because when the CB is closer to the OB (say 10 inches) it's about a 56° shot, but from 70 inches it's about a 46° shot. Maybe you guys in Oregon play better position and keep the CB within a foot or so of the OB more often than east coast players. Lol. :wink:
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
What I see more for novice players is when they have a shot that is outside their comfort level, they get out of their routine and do what I call the give up stroke. To me that is a bigger thing to fix than aiming.


For years, in leagues and in bars, I've noticed novice players over-cut balls quite often. They can see it's not close to straight in, and they simply over-estimate the cut angle. The same thing happens when most players try combination shots...they almost always over-cut the first ball.

Tonight is BCA league night, and if we play a lower level team I'll note the misses shots and report my findings.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Amazing! Must be the West Coast vs. the East Coast. Here misses are undercuts or too thick on the cut shots. Most amateurs miss by hitting the ball too thick. You just said; "(they miss the collision-induced throw and etc.), that miss makes the OB go straighter and hit the pocket too thick. I still think you've made a mistake in the way you are describing it. In practice, I try to hit the pockets at a thinner angle and perfect is a #5 (the thinnest). On rail shots, I try to make the ball hit 3/4" outside the pocket and never hit the rail it's next to. An over cut (the thinnest). Different strokes, I guess.

I've written about this elsewhere. We know that "fixes" for throw include banging the balls hard, outside english and adding more cut. And this tends to compound errors on a miss.

At a league when I watch 50 players miss half-ball cuts into corner pockets, most hit the long rail, not the short rail.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
I've written about this elsewhere. We know that "fixes" for throw include banging the balls hard, outside english and adding more cut. And this tends to compound errors on a miss.

At a league when I watch 50 players miss half-ball cuts into corner pockets, most hit the long rail, not the short rail.

So, you are still saying; most pool players miss by over cutting? I find when someone is not sharp yet, they undercut time and time again until they get down to register it all in and then start cutting it correctly. Balls take more cut than it's apparent and it takes a few minutes for the better players to get used to it. Different worlds out there.
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
There are two sides to miss a cut shot, the pro-side and the sucker side.

Don't be a sucker.

:D
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
There are two sides to miss a cut shot, the pro-side and the sucker side.

Don't be a sucker.

:D

Here is a shot for anyone to try it 20 times and tell me what side you miss on. I try to hit it a "five" on the hole which means it hits the right hand cushion point of the pocket and a definite over cutting. The OB is on the X= 1, and Y = 2.5 diamonds, the CB is at X = 7, and Y = 1. Try it. If you over cut it, it will roll right back onto the end rail and the CB down where it is... a nice safety.
 

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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
What I see more for novice players is when they have a shot that is outside their comfort level, they get out of their routine and do what I call the give up stroke. To me that is a bigger thing to fix than aiming.

Good point. And it's obvious when it's a about to happen. They get that look on their face and in their body movements that seems to say, "Well, screw it....I'm probably going to lose anyway."
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Good point. And it's obvious when it's a about to happen. They get that look on their face and in their body movements that seems to say, "Well, screw it....I'm probably going to lose anyway."

What was your documentation as to whether people under cut or over cut their misses?
 
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