Ever just lost your game all of a sudden???

Mkindsv

Mkindsv

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SpiderWebComm said:
Pattern play is a real key for all games. But how about nerves? When you don't play in tournaments on a regular basis week after week or gamble, it's a situation that takes us out of the comfort zone with different expectations.

If you're playing pretty sporty just before an event and then the next day or two right after the event but like a dog during it, it's nerves, focus and mindset. High expectations and self imposed pressure causing physical and mental breakdown from the nerves.

You said the following in your first post of this thread and to me it's the key: "I placed a lot of importance on the tournament in my own mind and practiced my ass off for 4 weeks to get ready. My problem, From the minute the team arrived my pool game disappeared. I could not run a pattern, I was missing routine positions, I was even missing gimmes...which never happens. The knowledge was still there but the execution was completely gone, it's literally like someone turned off a switch and my game disappeared...weirdest thing I have ever experienced."
Click to expand...

I agree with you here, the referenced statement was about pressure, it was the first ti.e I had played in that format, with a team and had other people depending in me playing well...and it got to me. As for tournaments and gambling, I do plenty of both and almost always do really well in either.

Thanks for the feedback, I will consider it next time I am out.
 
Mkindsv

Mkindsv

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
goettlicher said:
Can you share your PSR? with us please?

randyg
Click to expand...

Randy, I have a pretty simple pre shot routine. I generally find the shot I am starting with, along with the next three balls, I will view the shot from full upright position, determine where I want my cue ball for the next shot ( usually I chalk while doing this), I then line up on the shot with my right foot on the shooting line, place my bridge hand down and the cue on the shot line (simultaneously), visualise the shot, take several large then 4- 6 micro practice strokes, employ a slow backstroke, pause and follow through.

I think it is a pretty standard PSR, sounds like a lot, bit the whole process takes like 12 - 15 seconds.
 
BilliardsAbout

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Mkindsv said:
Randy, I have a pretty simple pre shot routine. I generally find the shot I am starting with, along with the next three balls, I will view the shot from full upright position, determine where I want my cue ball for the next shot ( usually I chalk while doing this), I then line up on the shot with my right foot on the shooting line, place my bridge hand down and the cue on the shot line (simultaneously), visualise the shot, take several large then 4- 6 micro practice strokes, employ a slow backstroke, pause and follow through.

I think it is a pretty standard PSR, sounds like a lot, bit the whole process takes like 12 - 15 seconds.
Click to expand...

When do you bend your body to the table? Putting the cue down on line first, then wrapping your body around the cue, is not a good routine.
 
SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Mkindsv said:
I agree with you here, the referenced statement was about pressure, it was the first ti.e I had played in that format, with a team and had other people depending in me playing well...and it got to me. As for tournaments and gambling, I do plenty of both and almost always do really well in either.

This is very telling. It you do well in tournaments and gambling with this team format being the first time, you stepped outside of your comfort zone into a new unfamiliar element.

Don't feel bad. It seems to keep happening over and over with pro players on the US side of the Mosconi Cup. They play great all year in individual events and gambling but play sub-par throughout the team event.


Thanks for the feedback, I will consider it next time I am out.
Click to expand...

The only thing you can do is just get into more team events so you know how your mind and body will react. Drills by yourself won't do any more for it. It's about mindset and awareness of what you've been through and going through at the time mentally and physically.
 
BilliardsAbout

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Here's a psychology tip. Pretend during competition that you are not competing and have no agenda to win or lose--after all, you aren't playing to pay your mortgage like some of my friends do. Right?

Pretend instead that you every match is against a friend to play for fun. The people watching you are watching because you are both good players and showing off a bit. Try it.
 
SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
BilliardsAbout said:
Here's a psychology tip. Pretend during competition that you are not competing and have no agenda to win or lose--after all, you aren't playing to pay your mortgage like some of my friends do. Right?

Pretend instead that you every match is against a friend to play for fun. The people watching you are watching because you are both good players and showing off a bit. Try it.
Click to expand...

How effective do you think this would be for the US players to use in the Mosconi Cup? Or how about their PSR? Maybe prayer?

They're mentally and physically where they've never been before in uncharted territory with nerves, adrenaline, and neuromuscular disassociation.

If I had been on the team I would have already shat my pants multiple times on top of it all. :(

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=465192
 
BilliardsAbout

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Hi Spider,

You may have missed where I wrote "you aren't playing to pay your mortgage like some of my friends do."

This tip is for amateurs playing for MVP league honors or a trophy. I teach other techniques in lessons for players deep in competition mode, but this tip works beautifully for lower stakes play.
 
B

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mkindsv said:
I have this issue. Titleholders was last week for our TAP league. I placed a lot of importance on the tournament in my own mind and practiced my ass off for 4 weeks to get ready. I was running drills and playing the best players around as often as I could.

As a result of the drills and the practice I moved up to a 6 in my league and was shooting the best pool of my life. I was handily beating people that I often had trouble with and really excited about the tournament and ready to take no prisoners. Anyway, I showed up and laid a big fat egg. The team did really well, we finished 3rd place with a lot of big wins.

My problem, From the minute the team arrived my pool game disappeared. I could not run a pattern, I was missing routine positions, I was even missing gimmes...which never happens. The knowledge was still there but the execution was completely gone, it's literally like someone turned off a switch and my game disappeared...weirdest thing I have ever experienced.

Anyway we won every set that I lost a match in, so the team had my back, I even coached several of my teammates to victories (knowledge was still there).

So I thought maybe it was the pressure...so I went for four hours yesterday to play on some 8 footers (played on 7 footers in the tournament)...same issue, barely had a four ball run all day.

Any of you ever had this happen??? Any suggestions for remedy as there is another titleholders in a week that is our last chance for Vegas this year.
Click to expand...


I'm going to chime in here because I've been in these shoes and you can beat this if you really want to.

There's been some good advice in this thread and some not so good. But let me back up...

I'm the most nervous player you will ever meet! I thought I had a normal level of nervousness until I started talking to other decent players and I now realize that I'm off the charts. To be honest, I've even realized now -- through conversations with my wife that I even have an unhealthy level of anxiety in my everyday life. I guess I've lived with it for so long that I thought it was normal. When it comes to tournament play for me, if I got any more nervous/anxious I would probably get close to experiencing a panic attack. So it's pretty bad...

BUT

I've figured out how to deal with it. Here's my recipe.

1. Don't do any pretending. Don't picture the audience naked. Don't act like it doesn't matter. Don't picture yourself all alone in your basement playing. Instead -- embrace the nervousness. It might feel like you're falling off a weekend long cliff but at least you know you're living. The nervousness can be used to play your best pool so you really don't want to eliminate all of it.

2. Exercise and Breathing. In between racks stretch out. Go for a fast walk to the bathroom. Jump up and down. Do whatever you can do without having everybody in the facility think you're a mad man. Do this to burn off some of that nervous energy. Then focus on your breathing trying to calm down your heart rate.

3. Have realistic expectations. YOU ARE GOING TO MISS! When you do try not to let it defeat you. Learn from the mistake you made and move on.

4. PSR. This is vitally important to work on DURING your practice time before the tournament but when it comes time to play you really shouldn't be talking through your PSR every shot. Instead just focus on the most simple thing like staying absolutely still. Or have one single thought that you focus on. Think "statue" or "smooth" or some other single thought.

This really has worked for me so I felt I would share. This past weekend I played the best pool of my life and I'm hoping I finally have it figured out. I played some great pool against some National Champions and managed to win the Grand Rapids Open so these steps aren't just theories for me but I've applied them successfully in events.

Good luck.



***Edit***

Maybe you weren't even specifically talking about nerves here but I think others were.
 

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SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
BilliardsAbout said:
This tip is for amateurs playing for MVP league honors or a trophy.

I think it "may" work for some but isn't all that simple. If it's a first time situation, playing for MVP league honors, a trophy, or especially a big TEAM EVENT, is no different at this level as it is for the pros choking like dogs in the Mosconi Cup. Mental takes over the physical. The body is no longer in control.

I teach other techniques in lessons for players deep in competition mode, but this tip works beautifully for lower stakes play.
Click to expand...

Do you know what the #1 fear is for most people? The fear of public speaking with a lot of strangers in the audience. Sure, you can pretend all you want that you're talking to a small group of friends, people you know well in a social gathering, classmates or other situations. But when someone new to the situation of public speaking gets in front of a sea of strange faces while on stage for the first time, reality sets in and it's a different story.

The legs are tremulous along with the entire body, the voice quivers, and the brain doesn't work to remember what is to be said even when prepared. If unprepared or unrehearsed, it usually turns into a nightmare.

That's why most people don't put themselves there to begin with.

All you have to do is watch a pro PGA golf tournament every week on the final two days and you'll see certain players fold like a napkin all the time. And even top players do it. They flinch while putting and their coordination or balance goes all to hell when hitting drives and iron shots that get them in big trouble.

Out of curiosity, are you a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist?
 
SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
BasementDweller said:
I'm going to chime in here because I've been in these shoes and you can beat this if you really want to.

There's been some good advice in this thread and some not so good. But let me back up...

I'm the most nervous player you will ever meet! I thought I had a normal level of nervousness until I started talking to other decent players and I now realize that I'm off the charts. To be honest, I've even realized now -- through conversations with my wife that I even have an unhealthy level of anxiety in my everyday life. I guess I've lived with it for so long that I thought it was normal. When it comes to tournament play for me, if I got any more nervous/anxious I would probably get close to experiencing a panic attack. So it's pretty bad...

BUT

I've figured out how to deal with it. Here's my recipe.

1. Don't do any pretending. Don't picture the audience naked. Don't act like it doesn't matter. Don't picture yourself all alone in your basement playing. Instead -- embrace the nervousness. It might feel like you're falling off a weekend long cliff but at least you know you're living. The nervousness can be used to play your best pool so you really don't want to eliminate all of it.

2. Exercise and Breathing. In between racks stretch out. Go for a fast walk to the bathroom. Jump up and down. Do whatever you can do without having everybody in the facility think you're a mad man. Do this to burn off some of that nervous energy. Then focus on your breathing trying to calm down your heart rate.

3. Have realistic expectations. YOU ARE GOING TO MISS! When you do try not to let it defeat you. Learn from the mistake you made and move on.

4. PSR. This is vitally important to work on DURING your practice time before the tournament but when it comes time to play you really shouldn't be talking through your PSR every shot. Instead just focus on the most simple thing like staying absolutely still. Or have one single thought that you focus on. Think "statue" or "smooth" or some other single thought.

This really has worked for me so I felt I would share. This past weekend I played the best pool of my life and I'm hoping I finally have it figured out. I played some great pool against some National Champions and managed to win the Grand Rapids Open so these steps aren't just theories for me but I've applied them successfully in events.

Good luck.

***Edit***
Maybe you weren't even specifically talking about nerves here but I think others were.
Click to expand...

Now this is some good stuff and on the money. Kudos for all the honesty, especially to yourself first.

One other thing I'd like to add to it. As uncomfortable, scary, or embarrassing as it is or has been in the past, CONTINUE TO PUT YOURSELF IN THOSE SITUATIONS AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE TO GET USED TO IT AND LEARN HOW YOUR MIND AND BODY REACTS AND WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
 
N

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BasementDweller said:
I'm going to chime in here because I've been in these shoes and you can beat this if you really want to.

There's been some good advice in this thread and some not so good. But let me back up...

I'm the most nervous player you will ever meet! I thought I had a normal level of nervousness until I started talking to other decent players and I now realize that I'm off the charts. To be honest, I've even realized now -- through conversations with my wife that I even have an unhealthy level of anxiety in my everyday life. I guess I've lived with it for so long that I thought it was normal. When it comes to tournament play for me, if I got any more nervous/anxious I would probably get close to experiencing a panic attack. So it's pretty bad...

BUT

I've figured out how to deal with it. Here's my recipe.

1. Don't do any pretending. Don't picture the audience naked. Don't act like it doesn't matter. Don't picture yourself all alone in your basement playing. Instead -- embrace the nervousness. It might feel like you're falling off a weekend long cliff but at least you know you're living. The nervousness can be used to play your best pool so you really don't want to eliminate all of it.

2. Exercise and Breathing. In between racks stretch out. Go for a fast walk to the bathroom. Jump up and down. Do whatever you can do without having everybody in the facility think you're a mad man. Do this to burn off some of that nervous energy. Then focus on your breathing trying to calm down your heart rate.

3. Have realistic expectations. YOU ARE GOING TO MISS! When you do try not to let it defeat you. Learn from the mistake you made and move on.

4. PSR. This is vitally important to work on DURING your practice time before the tournament but when it comes time to play you really shouldn't be talking through your PSR every shot. Instead just focus on the most simple thing like staying absolutely still. Or have one single thought that you focus on. Think "statue" or "smooth" or some other single thought.

This really has worked for me so I felt I would share. This past weekend I played the best pool of my life and I'm hoping I finally have it figured out. I played some great pool against some National Champions and managed to win the Grand Rapids Open so these steps aren't just theories for me but I've applied them successfully in events.

Good luck.



***Edit***

Maybe you weren't even specifically talking about nerves here but I think others were.
Click to expand...

Chris, a big, fat, congratulations!!! on knocking off that tourney! :thumbup:

This year was the biggest field to date in the upper division.
 
SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Jay Helfert describes exactly what happens in one of his latest posts. Probably what happened to the OP of this thread if he honestly analyzes it in retrospect.

I can personally attest to what Jay wrote.

Jay's Post:

"To elaborate on what happened to Skylar. It can happen to any pool player when they lose their confidence, becoming fearful and having performance anxiety. Your body goes numb and you can't feel anything when you get down to shoot. Every shot becomes a challenge, even the most simple ones. Momentarily you have literally forgotten how to play. It's like being temporarily paralyzed. Same reason that some people freeze up in a crises. I feel bad for Skylar that he had to experience this at the worst possible time. I had it happen to me before (playing Petey Margo) and just wanted the match to end."
 
nobcitypool

nobcitypool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Obviously, there is a psychological side. But I think fundamentals have a ton to do with it. If you have a home brewed stroke that relies a lot on timing, you're more likely to have problems in pressure situations. Everyone is susceptible to pressure to some degree or another. The more fundamentally sound a player is including their PSR, stroke, pattern play, etc., the more likely they are to stand up under pressure.

I also think it has a lot to do with how you practice. Does your practice consist of banging balls and often rushing through the shot process or do you have structured practice where you maintain your PSR, you have drills where you measure results (creating some pressure to perform) and do you work on your weaknesses instead of your strengths?

Pool is a game of micro inches, degrees, etc.. The difference between a clean shot and a horrible miss isn't feet or even inches. Being off hitting the CB 1/4 tip vertically or horizontally can alter the outcome of the shot substantially. It doesn't take much pressure or jitters for that to happen.
 
BC21

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
nobcitypool said:
Obviously, there is a psychological side. But I think fundamentals have a ton to do with it. If you have a home brewed stroke that relies a lot on timing, you're more likely to have problems in pressure situations. Everyone is susceptible to pressure to some degree or another. The more fundamentally sound a player is including their PSR, stroke, pattern play, etc., the more likely they are to stand up under pressure.

I also think it has a lot to do with how you practice. Does your practice consist of banging balls and often rushing through the shot process or do you have structured practice where you maintain your PSR, you have drills where you measure results (creating some pressure to perform) and do you work on your weaknesses instead of your strengths?

Pool is a game of micro inches, degrees, etc.. The difference between a clean shot and a horrible miss isn't feet or even inches. Being off hitting the CB 1/4 tip vertically or horizontally can alter the outcome of the shot substantially. It doesn't take much pressure or jitters for that to happen.
Click to expand...


Excellent post. Quality of practice is very important. It should be goal-oriented, a challenge that isn't impossible to achieve, but also isn't too easy to achieve. The brain learns best when pushed toward a goal that has a realistic/good chance of being met. But when it's too easy, nothing new is being added, which means no learning is happening. When the goal is too tough, very unlikely to be achieved, your brain is learning more about failure than success. There is a sweet spot for practice where the brain gets just enough of a glimpse of success that it sees the goal and knows very well it is reachable. Once reached, set a slightly higher goal next time.

I also like the comment (I believe from Spider) about putting yourself in pressure situations more often. This seasons you up quite well. Allows you to pull yourself together when needed, like BasementDweller did in that Grand Rapids 8ball open.
 
F

fathomblue

Rusty Shackleford
Silver Member
Have you attempted to play an actual match while not worrying about the outcome?

My advice.....simply stop trying. As in, just play. Smile. Have fun. Just to see what happens. You're already losing. Why beat yourself up about it? Your inner self knows what you're capable of and have done in the past. So, just approach the table on every shot with a positive attitude. Never let that positive vibe waver, no matter what happens after every turn.

Let us know what happens.
 
Mkindsv

Mkindsv

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Had a decent week this week in league...got some good practice in beforehand. Played my 9 ball match and won 5-3 in a 5-4 race. Lost 8 ball, couldn't make a shot again, this was about two hours after the nine ball match. I have come to a conclusion as to why I am having such difficulties, or at least a large part of the reason, and it is exhaustion.

I work nights 6 pm to 6 am, Wed-Sat and then Wed-Sun the following week. I signed up for a league on Mondays, since it is in the middle of my days off, problem is, if it is my day off my wife thinks its a good idea to have me run errands from 6 am to 5 pm pretty much every single day, which is fine, but playing pool til 2 am after doing that is getting difficult.

Anyway, I have taken most of the suggestions posted here to the table,thing is, when I practice it is at a reasonable hour and I literally have no issues...it is literally night and day.

My problem previously was PRESSURE, only for one tournament, that was the reason for the original post, pretty sure my problem now is that the hours aren't numerous enough in the day to get enough rest and still play pool on Monday Nights. I am going to do an experiment and go in the next three weeks with just a ton of rest and see how much that helps.

Thanks all for your suggestions, you are all truly appreciated!!!
 
Mkindsv

Mkindsv

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
fathomblue said:
Have you attempted to play an actual match while not worrying about the outcome?

Let us know what happens.
Click to expand...

I rarely ever worry about wins or losses while playing league, the way the handicapping system is set up, if you play by the rules you are going to lose your fair share for sure. When I start going off the rails is after three or four games of not playing how I know I can play...not really anger, more befuddlement.
 
BilliardsAbout

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Sometimes I theorize on my posts, other times I'm citing what works with students.

Not every tip or technique applies to every player. Most "pretend" keys are designed to distract the verbal mind during athletic competition so the body can move well.

If "just breathing clearly" works for you, great. If not, try my tip. Then, let me know. If it doesn't work, I will give you a free lesson so we can find something that does work for you.
 
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