Please Explain Your "Aiming System"?

You guys can argue "pro side" all you want... Last night I was playing a pro in a tournament and he missed that shot on the "pro side" and left me the same tough shot he had just overcut. I thought about this conversation, then sanity returned and I cleared my head and just made the thin cut right in the center and ran out to win the match.

denwhit said:

I think that every time, the person should look at the hole; #1 the thickest--- #3 the middle, and #5 the thinnest hit. My teacher does this on every shot. He aims at the portion of the pocket he wishes to hit and as he goes around the table, he'll announce it, saying where he hit the pocket. He wants me to do the same getting the target so precise. If his shape doesn't turn out, it might be because he hit the pocket to thick or to thin. I'll catch hell on AZB because nobody has ever heard of someone doing that, but it makes sense to me and I've seen him doing it time after time. And, he has trained himself to do this for the last 45+ years. A nice habit to learn. I know if anyone raises hell about that, it's because they are jealous as hell. Nothing hard about it, just a matter of practicing it and affecting the brain. Professional golfers don't just look at the green, they have a precise spot to hit the ball to. Even on the driving range, they are aiming at a yardage sign, a tree trunk, etc. Nothing just out there.

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I don't always aim for the center of the pocket, even if the full pocket is available.

It depends upon what I need the cue ball to do after I make the object ball.

"Cheating" the pockets to obtain desired angles is nothing new.

I play position to obtain the best angle (for me) to make the next shot and continue on to the next object ball. Sometimes that requires that I utilize the insides or outside portions of the pockets instead of dead center pocket.

I would think that most people who play well will aim for the portion of the pocket that will allow them to do whatever they intended on doing.

denwhit said:

No, you have to see it. The simple "stop" shot can roll up to almost a diamond away on a 9' table with varying hits into the pocket. If it is too drive the CB between two obstruction balls 6" apart, with a stop shot or a little bit of 4-6" after a stop shot (like the one I was working on in Youtube), to drive the CB to a different path. It's an amazing thing to watch this man play pool. Maybe you should come on out and see it for yourself.

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I completely get it. If RD can tweak a full table cut shot (where the ob is more than 6 or 7 ft from the table) by the mere fraction of a degree that's allowable from that distance (based on a margin of error of +/- 1 degree when shooting for center pocket), well, that is truly amazing. If he can do this type of shot 10 times and get the CB to hit within 3 or inches of a particular spot on the end rail at least 4 or 5 times (50%}, that would be near miraculous. At that distance you could cheat the pocket a perfectly and slightly hit the CB a micro too high or low or left or right, or maybe be a nearly unmeasurable amount of speed off and the CB will not hit it's spot on that rail, which means that fraction of a degree you created by overcutting or undercutting the ob served no purpose other than increasing your likelihood of missing the shot.

I don't need to see it. It's like a trick shot, and I've seen some pretty amazing trick shots. But even the trickiest ones have about a 1 out of 3 chance of going if you've already shot it several thousand times throughout a career.

Most players can become very competitive at a very high level of play simply by shooting balls into the most generous portion of the pocket and getting the CB in a good (not perfect) position for the next shot.

HawaiianEye said:

I don't always aim for the center of the pocket, even if the full pocket is available.

It depends upon what I need the cue ball to do after I make the object ball.

"Cheating" the pockets to obtain desired angles is nothing new.

I play position to obtain the best angle (for me) to make the next shot and continue on to the next object ball. Sometimes that requires that I utilize the insides or outside portions of the pockets instead of dead center pocket.

I would think that most people who play well will aim for the portion of the pocket that will allow them to do whatever they intended on doing.

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I agree with all of this, accounting for where that ob is in relation to the pocket. If it's within 4 or 5 feet then most good players can aim thick or thin as needed, if needed. Beyond 1/2 table on tight pockets, you'd surely have to be a world beater to consistently cheat the pocket on any shot that's not straight in or close to straight in. Imo

denwhit said:

I think that every time, the person should look at the hole; #1 the thickest--- #3 the middle, and #5 the thinnest hit. My teacher does this on every shot. He aims at the portion of the pocket he wishes to hit and as he goes around the table, he'll announce it, saying where he hit the pocket. He wants me to do the same getting the target so precise. If his shape doesn't turn out, it might be because he hit the pocket to thick or to thin. I'll catch hell on AZB because nobody has ever heard of someone doing that, but it makes sense to me and I've seen him doing it time after time. And, he has trained himself to do this for the last 45+ years. A nice habit to learn. I know if anyone raises hell about that, it's because they are jealous as hell. Nothing hard about it, just a matter of practicing it and affecting the brain. Professional golfers don't just look at the green, they have a precise spot to hit the ball to. Even on the driving range, they are aiming at a yardage sign, a tree trunk, etc. Nothing just out there.

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There is nothing wrong about selecting a part of the pocket to aim at. I have often taught the same thing. The theory is, aim small-miss small. The game is about precision, including aiming.

That said, in actual game time, you always give yourself the largest margin of error whenever possible. That means aim for the center of the opening available unless position off the ob dictates otherwise.

denwhit said:

I do wish we had a shape forum. How many of you can hit a replacement ball at all distances with ALL speeds? This is where the CB can take the place of the ball it hits. He was the only one that could do that in the IPAT3 test. I can do the stop plus 4"-6" inches almost everywhere at all speeds because I've worked on it https://youtu.be/fjEGe0_rP2k, on a conducive angle, this ball will run forward of the tangent stop line a few degrees, but time will not allow me to accomplish what my teacher can do. If you can give him a conducive angle, he can hit almost anything (along the paths) within a full high follow and a full draw back, which on a conducive angle, it might be 120 degrees or so. A conducive angle of 15-35 degrees or so will let him place the CB almost anywhere on the table with his ability to shift the CB around with almost everything at a vertical strike on the CB. I think you've to get started at 5 years old to learn what he can do.

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I intend no malice with my comment here. And I will not get into any 'back and forth' with you about anything.
If your teacher is this good, why in the world is he fooling around with chump change giving lessons in a hick town in Oregon?
All he's got to do is scuffle up an entry fee, enter the US Open and show these pro pool players what the game is really all about.
The way those guys wager, he could come home with 100 grand very easily for a few days work.
There's a disconnect somewhere...in my way of thinking.
:thumbup:

There is in fact a "shape forum". It's called the MAIN FORUM. Just make the title of the thread about "GETTING SHAPE". That's where everything pool related goes other than aiming.

The good thing is there are far more members who go to the main forum than the aiming forum which means TONS of responses. Probably THOUSANDS. Maybe MILLIONS and possibly even BILLIONS.

denwhit said:

I do wish we had a shape forum. How many of you can hit a replacement ball at all distances with ALL speeds? This is where the CB can take the place of the ball it hits. He was the only one that could do that in the IPAT3 test. I can do the stop plus 4"-6" inches almost everywhere at all speeds because I've worked on it https://youtu.be/fjEGe0_rP2k, on a conducive angle, this ball will run forward of the tangent stop line a few degrees, but time will not allow me to accomplish what my teacher can do. If you can give him a conducive angle, he can hit almost anything (along the paths) within a full high follow and a full draw back, which on a conducive angle, it might be 120 degrees or so. A conducive angle of 15-35 degrees or so will let him place the CB almost anywhere on the table with his ability to shift the CB around with almost everything at a vertical strike on the CB. I think you've to get started at 5 years old to learn what he can do.

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You have a very good level stroke. What kind of stick is that?

These angle shots can be straightened out to a high degree as well with the right kind of bending which I work on all the time. I also believe that what seems inconsistent can be made consistent with alignment and delivery contortion and manipulation.

Can you do those cut shots consistently with maximum side spin left and right? Also, max spin left and right and keep the cb from running up table past the side pockets?

denwhit said:

If one gets "shape" the correct way, there isn't much chance of missing the shot as this whole forum is about. Funny, that "shape" isn't included.

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What part of the memo isn't being comprehended? "Shape" doesn't require it's own forum nor any plans to create one. Start a thread in the MAIN FORUM called
"SHAPE THE CORRECT WAY". Never miss a shot. I don't see it there.

Pass this incredible wisdom of yours and Mr. Genius on to the world. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, has this kind of knowledge from books, other instructors, DVDs, or personal experience like you and he does. Bless all of us with the material.

(This guy is sounding more and more like ENGLISH especially with the # of machine gun posts per minute. Just what the forum needs again)

I sometimes just wonder...it's quite a question.

I guess when it's all said and done, each pool player takes what he/she likes or feels is good for their game and then incorporates into their playing. And if it doesn't work out, they discard it.
Pick up a little from this guy, that guy, watching this person, or learning from that player until they get a consistent game that will stand up under pressure. And then all that's really left to rely on is talent and desire and a strong work ethic.
I wonder if there really exists anything that is the "absolute best" when it comes to shooting pool. There are so many varying opinions about this and that. And often those opinions degenerate into personal attacks which, in real life at the pool room, probably wouldn't even be worth the mental energy.
:thumbup:

Low500 said:

I wonder if there really exists anything that is the "absolute best" when it comes to shooting pool. There are so many varying opinions about this and that. And often those opinions degenerate into personal attacks which, in real life at the pool room, probably wouldn't even be worth the mental energy.
:thumbup:

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In real life at the pool room it wouldn't be worth the mental energy but it would be worth the physical energy to prove who's right.

Get on the table and play for some real cash. He who loses the most Franklins better learn to STFU!

SpiderWebComm said:

In real life at the pool room it wouldn't be worth the mental energy but it would be worth the physical energy to prove who's right.
Get on the table and play for some real cash. He who loses the most Franklins better learn to STFU!

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No doubt about that, for sure.
Keep on truckin'
:thumbup:

denwhit said:

I think the difference is people that want to be better and take lessons from the professionals. look at the professional golfers, 97% of them have professional instructors on their team and they go to them quite often. That is the way I love a sport, whether it be golf, tennis or pool, I always strive to learn and learn. Most pool players just play the way they are and so be it. Maybe a money thing, but not sure about that?

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I've been fortunate enough to watch in person some of the greatest.
Some advocated aiming at 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, full ball (Mosconi)....Lassiter had a line on his ferrule that he used to refine his aim at the contact point and then slightly rotated the cue to "dial in" some English...You have your teacher who apparently can shoot 'lights out', and I have no sensible reason to think you're just making it up.....I adapted very quickly to CTE using the manual pivots and have ZERO desire to tinker around with it by doing a "Pro 1" thing....Shane and his edge of ferrule method apparently works fantastic...on and on it can go.
As for the money winning...............all I ever personally desired was that if some people won some money betting on pool games on a particular day, I just wanted to be one of them.
Capturing good information from great players and working to put it into one's own game is the deal.
I used to tell my son when he started in the music business that he was entering a world where nobody was going to pamper him. It's a world of difference between playing your instrument and singing at a family picnic for free and then performing for strangers who've paid good money. At that time, you give up all protection from being ripped to shreds and criticized. Some musicians (usually those working on a tip jar) never learn that lesson...some pool players, pool shooting writers, and pool instructors never learn that either.
*Notice my emphasis on the 'work' part*.
Keep on truckin'
:thumbup: