Just played Johnny Archer - he's good!!! Long

W

Williebetmore

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Just played Johnny Archer - he's good!!! (Long winded)

Well, I just finished getting whipped by Johnny Archer. He was making an appearance at our local billiards shop, sponsored by Ohlhausen. The manager is a good friend of mine, and arranged the 3 games with Johnny. We played 3 games of straight pool to 100 (about 3 or 4 hours) on a brand new 9 foot Ohlhausen (medium pockets, but cut fairly deep I thought).

Johnny throughout the afternoon played probably 6 or 7 games of nineball with the patrons (during the 4 hours I was there). Patron would break, make a few balls, then Johnny would run out - every single time (zero misses for the afternoon in 9-ball).

Johnny said that he hadn't played any straight pool for a long time, but I am telling you he played some of the best 14.1 I have ever seen. I've watched most of the Accu-Stats straight pool videos. I have played straight pool with some legendary players. I have watched up close Mizerak, Hopkins, and Rempe in the 70's (their prime as straight pool competitors). I've seen Irving Crane past his prime. I saw the entire Pagulayan-Schmidt match at the DCC this year. I have NEVER seen anyone play like this.

I am not talking about high runs (his high run was 56). I am talking about fabulous patterns, dissecting the racks, using insurance balls, and ABOVE ALL unbelieveable ball pocketing. Once he decided on a shot, he never took more than a few seconds over the ball, and everything went in dead center. Everyone else who played on that table jawed out a lot of balls, Johnny jawed none. He missed twice in the first game, and only once in the third game. All misses were on super tough cuts into the side or 9 foot blood tests off the rail. He had very few super tough shots (Pagulayan left himself more tough shots in 1 or 2 racks than Johnny did in 300 balls). He dissected 3 or 4 racks that looked totally impossible. He manufactured and obtained position on break balls from 2 or 3 layouts that looked totally impossible - I would have bet any amount that no human could get through those racks (good thing I didn't take the kid's college money with me, 'cause I would have lost it all). He sent the cue ball on some really dangerous and difficult paths, with perfect outcome every time. And everything was quick and seemed TOTALLY EFFORTLESS. It looks like he just assumes every ball will be pocketed, and perfect position will be obtained with every shot. There was no agonizing over the shots and positions. During the games he was eating popcorn, talking on the phone, signing autographs, and watching golf and football on television (plus he had to suffer the horror show that is my game - though my racking is getting fairly strong).

The only thing I've ever seen to compare was an old documentary with Willie Mosconi demonstrating a 50 ball run on an 8 foot table. He was talking during the shooting, playing extremely quickly, and seemed to give no thought at all to the pocketing of the balls (walking to the next shot while the cue ball is still rolling, setting up to shoot while the cue ball is still rolling towards its final destination).

I'm not sure that I would be the best person to comment, but I think I just saw straight pool played in a very classical style, by someone who could probably be the best straight pool player that ever lived - if he wanted to.

P.S - Final scores 100-2, 100-28, 100-8. I'm giving up pool immediately, there is no way I will ever be able to play like that.
 
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You are one lucky guy in having been able to play Johnny! I would have bought a table just to play him! Don;t get discouraged, not everyone can play World Class pool like Johnny.
Williebetmore said:
Well, I just finished getting whipped by Johnny Archer. He was making an appearance at our local billiards shop, sponsored by Ohlhausen. The manager is a good friend of mine, and arranged the 3 games with Johnny. We played 3 games of straight pool to 100 (about 3 or 4 hours) on a brand new 9 foot Ohlhausen (medium pockets, but cut fairly deep I thought).

Johnny throughout the afternoon played probably 6 or 7 games of nineball with the patrons (during the 4 hours I was there). Patron would break, make a few balls, then Johnny would run out - every single time (zero misses for the afternoon in 9-ball).

Johnny said that he hadn't played any straight pool for a long time, but I am telling you he played some of the best 14.1 I have ever seen. I've watched most of the Accu-Stats straight pool videos. I have played straight pool with some legendary players. I have watched up close Mizerak, Hopkins, and Rempe in the 70's (their prime as straight pool competitors). I've seen Irving Crane past his prime. I saw the entire Pagulayan-Schmidt match at the DCC this year. I have NEVER seen anyone play like this.

I am not talking about high runs (his high run was 56). I am talking about fabulous patterns, dissecting the racks, using insurance balls, and ABOVE ALL unbelieveable ball pocketing. Once he decided on a shot, he never took more than a few seconds over the ball, and everything went in dead center. Everyone else who played on that table jawed out a lot of balls, Johnny jawed none. He missed twice in the first game, and only once in the third game. All misses were on super tough cuts into the side or 9 foot blood tests off the rail. He had very few super tough shots (Pagulayan left himself more tough shots in 1 or 2 racks than Johnny did in 300 balls). He dissected 3 or 4 racks that looked totally impossible. He manufactured and obtained position on break balls from 2 or 3 layouts that looked totally impossible - I would have bet any amount that no human could get through those racks (good thing I didn't take the kid's college money with me, 'cause I would have lost it all). He sent the cue ball on some really dangerous and difficult paths, with perfect outcome every time. And everything was quick and seemed TOTALLY EFFORTLESS. It looks like he just assumes every ball will be pocketed, and perfect position will be obtained with every shot. There was no agonizing over the shots and positions. During the games he was eating popcorn, talking on the phone, signing autographs, and watching golf and football on television (plus he had to suffer the horror show that is my game - though my racking is getting fairly strong).

The only thing I've ever seen to compare was an old documentary with Willie Mosconi demonstrating a 50 ball run on an 8 foot table. He was talking during the shooting, playing extremely quickly, and seemed to give no thought at all to the pocketing of the balls (walking to the next shot while the cue ball is still rolling, setting up to shoot while the cue ball is still rolling towards its final destination).

I'm not sure that I would be the best person to comment, but I think I just saw straight pool played in a very classical style, by someone who could probably be the best straight pool player that ever lived - if he wanted to.

P.S - Final scores 100-2, 100-28, 100-8. I'm giving up pool immediately, there is no way I will ever be able to play like that.
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cut shot said:
Don't get discouraged, not everyone can play World Class pool like Johnny.
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Cut Shot,
"Discouraged" is not an accurate description. Perhaps "crushed", "suicidal", "totally broken" would be better descriptions. I've been practicing like a maniac for 2 1/2 years, and he completely demolished me - I would slam my cue into a wall, but I'm fairly certain I would miss it (the wall that is). :) :) :)
 
Wow! Fantastic, Willie. Don't let the scores bother you too much. Great players can give you some serious chair time in straight pool.

It must have been a wonderful experience, and not just for you. After all, Johnny got to shoot pool with someone having a true love of the game and its theory. I'll bet he enjoyed it and that he showed his enthusiasm to you.

It's nice to hear that Johnny managed the table well. I think the top players of today have more appreciation for straight pool than many realize. Earl Strickland has often spoken very highly of the game and speaks with reverence when he talks of the old masters that played it so brilliantly.

Next time you square off with a world champion, let Mike at AZB know, for it might make a nice Vbookie event. Allow me to add that I'm betting on you.

Thanks for sharing this wonderful expereince with me and others on the forum.
 
sjm said:
I think the top players of today have more appreciation for straight pool than many realize.

Next time you square off with a world champion, let Mike at AZB know, for it might make a nice Vbookie event. Allow me to add that I'm betting on you.

QUOTE]

SJM,
Actually I think he showed appreciation of the game by playing it the way he did. One of the store owner's (only a casual player), came up to me near the end, and said, "That was incredible, did you see how soft he hit everything?" He seemed to play everything at the perfect speed for perfect position. Only 2 or 3 times did he get a little straight on a break shot (with me sitting there thinking I'm definitely going to get to shoot again); each time he applied unbelieveable power, and got decent yield from a pack that I thought no one could spread.

As for your wager on me, thanks (I will lend you some V-cash for a V-psychiatriast - GET PROFESSIONAL HELP IMMEDIATELY). Of course there may be an alternate explanation for your gambling choices. When I asked Danny D. if there was ever a time and position when I should try to draw a break shot all the way to the head rail and out (I have heard that Gene Nagy occasionally or often does this) - Danny D. replied, "Sure there is; whenever you don't like money."
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Williebetmore said:
When I asked Danny D. if there was ever a time and position when I should try to draw a break shot all the way to the head rail and out (I have heard that Gene Nagy occasionally or often does this) - Danny D. replied, "Sure there is; whenever you don't like money."
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Boy, Willie, I have always agreed with that. A pro freind of mine, whom I'd rather not name, used to be one of those who did that, and he came third in the world straight pool championships more than twenty years ago. Still, I watched one of that friends matches with Ray Martin at my side and Ray commented that drawing all the way to the back rail on a break shot was bad form.

The turning point in a 1999 National Straight Pool Championships match between Tony Robles and Allen Hopkins was when Tony, with a pretty good lead, drew all the way into the back corner pocket off a standard break shot, an out-of-character error for Tony. To the dismay of me and other NYC locals, Hopkins ran 116 and out.
 
Super, super post Willee. It's like the commercial for the PGA Tour when they say "These guys are good". You just don't realize how incredibly good they really are until you get to see it up close and personal. You made me want to slam my cue into the wall just from reading this. :(
 
drivermaker said:
It's like the commercial for the PGA Tour when they say "These guys are good". You just don't realize how incredibly good they really are until you get to see it up close and personal. (
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D'maker,
Not to disagree, but Johnny is nowhere even close to good. He is unbelievably, otherworldly, fantastic. I bet he passed good when he was 6 years old.
 
Williebetmore said:
D'maker,
Not to disagree, but Johnny is nowhere even close to good. He is unbelievably, otherworldly, fantastic. I bet he passed good when he was 6 years old.
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Yeah...and the fact that he doesn't win or necessarily place high in everything he enters also shows the strength and depth of what's out there.
Damn you Willee, now I have to smash more than one cue.
 
Hey Willie, You know you ain't quitin' nothin. You don't play to put food on the table and that's the difference. Had you started at an early age playing to earn a living, your game would be a lot stronger. I'm not saying as strong as Johnny's, but a lot stronger. I just watched the incredible Larry Nevel last night. Right before the finals of the winners bracket match he was doing draw shots on the 9 foot Diamonds. Picture this if you can. Object ball frozen on the first diamond of the side rail by the corner on the foot spot end of the table. Cue ball is about 1 diamond out from side rail and 1 diamond from head string rail. Pockets the object ball in the corner, draws the cue ball to the head rail and all the way to the opposite corner on the foot rail. An 18 foot draw shot. It was incredible. Sam
 
satman said:
Hey Willie, You know you ain't quitin' nothin. You don't play to put food on the table and that's the difference. Had you started at an early age playing to earn a living, your game would be a lot stronger. I'm not saying as strong as Johnny's, but a lot stronger. I just watched the incredible Larry Nevel last night. Right before the finals of the winners bracket match he was doing draw shots on the 9 foot Diamonds. Picture this if you can. Object ball frozen on the first diamond of the side rail by the corner on the foot spot end of the table. Cue ball is about 1 diamond out from side rail and 1 diamond from head string rail. Pockets the object ball in the corner, draws the cue ball to the head rail and all the way to the opposite corner on the foot rail. An 18 foot draw shot. It was incredible. Sam
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C'mon Sam...did you have to tell about that? Why even bother to continue this game. Now I have to smash another cue........
 
Don't feel bad. Very few people in the world will ever draw a ball that far. I can maybe draw it to the end rail but only occasionally. We all have a talent for something in life. Just have fun and keep hittin' em. Sam
 
Willie, don't feel so ashamed of your performance. After all, you made just one mistake in three races to a hundred --- letting Johnny out of the chair.
 
satman said:
Hey Willie, You know you ain't quitin' nothin. You don't play to put food on the table and that's the difference.

Pockets the object ball in the corner, draws the cue ball to the head rail and all the way to the opposite corner on the foot rail. An 18 foot draw shot. It was incredible. Sam
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Sam,
Thanks for the input (and congratulations on the bank pool title). I guess I may have been a little hasty, I will give pool 2 more weeks. If I can't trounce Johnny by then I will reconsider. :cool: :cool: :cool:

I was very proud last year when I was finally able to draw the ball back to the head rail. I showed my instructor, and asked him how far a pro can draw it, and he produced the "Larry Nevel shot". That is some stroke. Do you think most of the pro's can do that, or is it just the flamethrowing power guys??
 
Okay, if you don't believe me, here is the position Johnny found himself in at the end of a super difficult layout (left to him by yours truly). He came up a little short after a super tough shot (left to him by yours truly). It took him only seconds to decide what to do. He cut the one, went up and down the table with perfect speed for a perfect break shot on the 3. Try it yourself. Not the hardest shot in the world, but he only thought about it for 3 seconds and shot it just like it was a hanger.
 

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Williebetmore said:
Okay, if you don't believe me, here is the position Johnny found himself in at the end of a super difficult layout (left to him by yours truly). He came up a little short after a super tough shot (left to him by yours truly). It took him only seconds to decide what to do. He cut the one, went up and down the table with perfect speed for a perfect break shot on the 3. Try it yourself. Not the hardest shot in the world, but he only thought about it for 3 seconds and shot it just like it was a hanger.
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Willee...I don't think he would have ever taken that shot against you if a title was on the line or a few jellybeans. He certainly had your runout capabilities figured out and he NEVER would have chanced it. He only tried the shot because it was an exhibition and he just got lucky. And to think, he did it with a Scorpion cue. Where's that guy again who wanted to know about the best bang for the buck in a cue? Did you look the cue over carefully for authenticity or customization?
 
drivermaker said:
Willee...I don't think he would have ever taken that shot against you if a title was on the line or a few jellybeans. He certainly had your runout capabilities figured out and he NEVER would have chanced it. He only tried the shot because it was an exhibition and he just got lucky. And to think, he did it with a Scorpion cue. Where's that guy again who wanted to know about the best bang for the buck in a cue? Did you look the cue over carefully for authenticity or customization?
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D'maker,
Yes, you are right - his shot choice was obviously one of desperation; its amazing he could even hold onto his cue at that point in such a tight match.

I was told that the butt of his cue was stock off the line. The shaft had no identifying marks, but was wood (not clad). I'm told that Johnny was asked about the shaft, but did not divulge any info.
 
Williebetmore said:
Hey, in the test area the attached images appeared as pictures, in this forum the attachments are just sitting there as links. What did I do wrong??
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Willie, the forum will show your saved image provided that you have only one file indicated in your managed attachments. Once you attach two files or more, all files are listed, rather than displayed, in your post.

To include multiple images in your post, you will have to combine your images into a single file. This can be accomplished using the "paste from" feature in Paintbrush. Bring up one of your two files in Paintbrush and use the arrows at the edge of the workspace to greatly enlarge the size of the workspace. Then use the "paste from" feature on the menu to add the other. It is possible that the second image will be placed right on top of the first, but even if that occurs, you have not lost the first image. Simply move the second image so that it no longer overlaps the first. Then save the combined image in a single JPG file. As long as the new image is 100K or less, you can embed it as a single attachment in one of your posts. In the "World Summit" post I began (on 10/2, I think), I managed to embed six wei images in a single JPG file, which is how I managed to display all of those positions from that truly classic match between Schmidt and Jones.

Let me know how you make out, Willie, or if you need further clarification.
 
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Corrected the attachments on Johnny's shot. See if you can do it yourself first try on a strange table.
 

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