Danny DiLiberto Lesson Update

W

Williebetmore

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Silver Member
Just a shameless (though unasked for and unpaid for) plug for Danny D. from a grateful student. The week before DCC I was fortunate to have Danny D. back in Indy for an entire day (and night) of straight pool. My wife even convinced him to cook one of his famous dinners - it was superb.

I was once again struck by his obvious love of the game, by his very entertaining personality, and by his incredible knowledge of the finer points of straight pool. For those aspiring players interested in short cuts to obtaining the knowledge of the masters (in straight pool, one-pocket, and nine ball); you should look up Danny D. As we played about 10 or 12 hours of straight pool, he would continuously analyze every shot (his and mine), explaining the WHY of every shot. Why he selects it, why he hits it a certain speed, what position he hopes to obtain, what part of the pocket to aim at, what safety features can be built into any shot, where to find the hidden English in combo-caroms, how to minimize your risk with every pattern that you choose, how to find the hidden carom/billiard/combo's that most players don't see, how to find the relatively easy "split shots" and unusual billiards that most players don't know (but will often save your run), why to hit each break shot with its own proper speed, why it is important to play intentional scratches in certain situations (and know what EXACTLY you hope to accomplish with these intentional scratches). As I mentioned in my post after the last lesson ("All Hail to ZigZagMaster"), I am still amazed by what can be found in the pack (WAY MORE than you might think, whatever your level of play).

I was struck by his openness in communicating these principles when he has spent his whole life learning them the hard way (ie. supporting his family through pool and gambling for 40 years). He criticized the great players of the mid-1900's who jealously guarded their knowledge and "secrets"; in his opinion damaging the game and preventing more widespread enjoyment of the game (as players find this fabulous game they will play for a while, and when proficiency eludes them through lack of knowledge will give it up in frustration). In lessons with other top professionals I have noticed that many have trouble communicating their knowledge, or just have to concentrate so much while they are playing that they can't talk and play at the same time - this was NOT a problem for Danny.

If I hadn't learned anything about pool playing, I would still have been fascinated by tales of his experiences. He has played most of the greats in the last half-century, and has interesting stories about Cicero, Willie, Luther, the Miz, Irving, Hopkins, Balsis, Rempe - all players I have admired for a long while.

I think he has led a tough, but interesting life. He is certainly having some trouble now with his vision. My advice is that the next time you see him at a tournament - spring for dinner or a lesson and soak up some of this knowledge first hand from one of the greats.

If I ever achieve even mediocrity in straight pool, I am running directly to Danny to start on that one-pocket game to which everyone here keeps referring (Efren wants a spot from him :) :) ).
 
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Willie,

You are way to modest about your game...and I have never met you, or seen you hit a ball.

Sounds like you had a couple great weeks between your lesson and time spent with DD, and the DCC. The game of pool needs more enthusiasts like you.

I play a lot of 1 Pocket but never had the patience for Straight Pool...figure that one out. My ability to read the pack is weak, and that is a result of not playing much Straight Pool. I know I could raise my 1 Pocket game a ball or two by learning to read the pack better. Any books or videos you can recommend until I can set up a lesson from a legend?
 
Williebetmore said:
I am still amazed by what can be found in the pack....
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i'm with you on this one.......as i've just recently in the last few months started playing more straight pool, and i have to say the biggest improvement in other games because of it is one pocket. its amazing how much your game improves when you can pick a dead ball out of the stack.

i was playing a friend the other day and he left me dead in the jaws of my pocket, a few balls down table and the stack. i thought i was going to have to send the cue ball up the table..........then i saw it, a dead ball in my corner.......all i had to do was hit the other side of the stack.......so to his bewilderment, i kick of the oppossite long rail, hit the stack and the ball goes in my pocket, spreading the rest for an easy 8 and out run..........all thanks to playing straight pool.

to me the two shots that are my favorite in all of pocket billiards to see is (in no order) a perfectly played kick safety, and a perfectly played stack shot in 14:1.

thanks
 
Worminator said:
I play a lot of 1 Pocket but never had the patience for Straight Pool...figure that one out.
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That's real hard ot figure. I believe the thought processes and level of concentration required are quite similar in the two games. These are the thinking man's games, in which pateince, discipline, finess and creativity are at a greater premium than in other games. Accomplished players who love one game usually love the other, but there are many exceptions.

I recall asking former World One Pocekt champion and 300 ball runner Johnny Ervolino to compare the two games. His answer was memorable. He said "the most interesting game played on a pool table is straight pool but the most difficult game played on a pool table is one pocket." That response has always fascinated me.
 
I would love to spend all day with anybody, with the skills of DD, having them explain everything that goes through their head. That day would certainly unlock many new doors for me and elevate my game.

I play with guys better than me that want to teach me but when it comes down to it, they say they just step up and shoot :( Every so often, they throw me a bone and let me see the inner workings of their mind :)

DD sounds like a top notch fellow. Imagine having him as a next door neighbor :)

Williebetmore said:
supporting his family through pool and gambling for 40 years
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I thought he was an accountant /shrug
 
Hooked said:
I thought he was an accountant /shrug
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Hooked,
To my knowledge, Danny D. has NEVER had a 9-5 job (but of course I haven't read his book yet, perhaps I just misinterpreted what he told me).
 
Worminator said:
I know I could raise my 1 Pocket game a ball or two by learning to read the pack better. Any books or videos you can recommend until I can set up a lesson from a legend?
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Worm-man,
I think I have read and studied about every book there is on pool, but haven't really found anything good on learning "the stack." Probably Ray Martin's book comes the closest with it's multitude of tricky shots. I would just say that a couple of hours with Danny D wouldn't hurt - he says that ability to read the pack is what sets the best one-pocket players apart from the rest. It is this ability that allows you to turn the tables on players that think they have you in a trap. If you see something they don't, your advantage is HUGE. The best one-pocket players will study the rack and make sure they disturb it if there is something in there that could benefit their opponent - that is just as important as knocking a ball away from their hole.

An interesting story that Danny told me about Jimmy Rempe and Ralf Souquet: When Ralf came to Jimmy for straight pool lessons years ago (before Ralf was famous, and before a major straight pool tournament), Jimmy would send Ralf out of the room, set up a complicated "out-of-the-pack" shot, then let Ralf come back in the room and try to find it. Not as easy as it sounds, but a GREAT way to learn.

P.S. - I can't emphasize strongly enough that I'm not talking about dead balls out of the pack that anyone can see - there are a lot more options that are hidden. You can see them and learn them - but unless you try them often in practice it is difficult to get a feel for them. I find that when I make such shots in the league, I hear either, "I didn't see that", or , "I wasn't sure that would go" from my opponent. When we play straight pool in my basement we generally try EVERY SINGLE out-of-the-pack shot that we see (even if balls elsewhere are wide open, even if there are safer ways to break the pack, even if we are not quite sure it will go), there's no better way to learn (though it will often end your run - at my house ego's are checked at the door).

Nothing is worse at the end of a long straight pool match than seeing a ball that in Jimmy Rempe's words is "almost dead" and then agonizing over whether to shoot it with the match on the line. Nothing is better than shattering the rack wide open on a hidden rack shot after your opponent thinks he's played a great safety on you at the end of a close match.
 
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Williebetmore said:
Nothing is better than shattering the rack wide open on a hidden rack shot after your opponent thinks he's played a great safety on you at the end of a close match.
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This is an excellent thread willie. Along the lines of above, I had an opponent freak on me at the end of a 9 Ball league match. At hill-hill, he played 'safe' on the 6 hiding it behind a couple of balls. The trouble was that the couple of balls were the 7-9, and the were almost wired for a corner bank on the 9. I kick at the 6, drive it onto the proper side of the 7, and bank the 9 into the heart of the pocket. As I mentioned, my opponent went a bit crazy, but my friend Joey who was watching said to me after "you saw that too, eh ?" :) I'll remember that one for a while, very satisfying. I'm not great at finding these, but like willie says, you gotta try lots in practice, which is what I do.

Dave
 
DaveK said:
I'll remember that one for a while, very satisfying. I'm not great at finding these, but like willie says, you gotta try lots in practice, which is what I do.

Dave
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Dave,
The other thing about these shots that can't be overstated, is their effect on the opponent. It is VERY hard to feel good about your chances when your opponent is shattering the rack with a shot you didn't see (or making a nice combo/bank like yours). I will often try for the spectacular shots against weaker opponents, just for the demoralizing effect.

P.S. - When I make these shots against my professional opponents they just think I'm lucky - their ego is quite strong enough to resist any negativity.
 
Great thread WBM!!!! I too am a fan of Danny after I saw him in the 60's play in tournaments and on the road. I am fortunate to have met him and his son Zach. From time to time Danny will call and we will talk. He is a true champion. After reading your posts all these years I want to say you are a great role model. I work and support my family but try to keep up my game. I dont bet high on my game but still want to play the best. Hopefully I will be able to play with you someday. My high run is a puny 42. So I dont know if that would pose you a challenge. I hope someone will create a 14.1 site like New Hampshire Steve did for one pocket. Yours Yoba!
 
yobagua said:
Great thread WBM!!!! I too am a fan of Danny after I saw him in the 60's play in tournaments and on the road. I am fortunate to have met him and his son Zach. Hopefully I will be able to play with you someday. My high run is a puny 42. So I dont know if that would pose you a challenge. Yours Yoba!
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Yoba,
I'm glad someone else has a similar opinion - I really enjoy hanging out with Danny. If you are ever in Indy, we can play. High run is of NO significance in choosing an opponent, only level of enthusiasm counts (yours seems to be high). My basement is somewhat of a Mecca for straight pool junkies, come and visit sometime.

P.S. - My high run is a magnificent 45 (ball pocketing still a little weaker than desirable) in the 2 1/2 years since I started playing seriously. I only keep track in match play (races to 100 on tight pockets), so I'm really not sure what I'm capable of on looser equipment where safety play is not a concern. In our league the better players will TROUNCE me if I leave an open table on a miss. Therefore I pass up some definitely makeable shots in favor of a safety if it appears that the reward for making the shot is small. My lifetime goal is 100, but I'm starting to think 50 might be more realistic.
 
Williebetmore said:
Yoba,
I'm glad someone else has a similar opinion - I really enjoy hanging out with Danny. If you are ever in Indy, we can play. High run is of NO significance in choosing an opponent, only level of enthusiasm counts (yours seems to be high). My basement is somewhat of a Mecca for straight pool junkies, come and visit sometime.

P.S. - My high run is a magnificent 45 (ball pocketing still a little weaker than desirable) in the 2 1/2 years since I started playing seriously. I only keep track in match play (races to 100 on tight pockets), so I'm really not sure what I'm capable of on looser equipment where safety play is not a concern. In our league the better players will TROUNCE me if I leave an open table on a miss. Therefore I pass up some definitely makeable shots in favor of a safety if it appears that the reward for making the shot is small. My lifetime goal is 100, but I'm starting to think 50 might be more realistic.
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I don't play much straight pool, so correct me if I'm wrong, doesnt anything over about 35 balls indicate that a 100 might be possible for that player. I pick 35 as a number because you would have to break at least 2 times in that run, you could get lucky and do it 2 more times in a row, and maybe 2 more after that for a 85 ball run. Anyone that doesn't fluke a 35 ball run (can make a 35 ball run 1 in 10 trys) has the potential to run 100. I am a straight pool moron though, this is just my opinion.
 
fxskater said:
I don't play much straight pool, so correct me if I'm wrong, doesnt anything over about 35 balls indicate that a 100 might be possible for that player. I pick 35 as a number because you would have to break at least 2 times in that run, you could get lucky and do it 2 more times in a row, and maybe 2 more after that for a 85 ball run. Anyone that doesn't fluke a 35 ball run (can make a 35 ball run 1 in 10 trys) has the potential to run 100. I am a straight pool moron though, this is just my opinion.
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fxskater,
I hope you are correct!!! I have heard such a line of reasoning before, including in some reputable books. I personally don't want to just run a hundred - I want (in the words of Jimmy Rempe) to "rain hundreds." :) :) After all, what good are goals if they are not completely unrealistic?

Of interest, I ran 35 and 41 when I was fairly new to pool - total flukes where the racks just exploded into extremely easy layouts - certainly not in any way consistent with my rather low level of skill. I'm a hundred times better player now (I know it sounds ridiculous, but I think it's true), but high run is just 45 - but I'm raining 20's and 30's, and in competitive play it seems to be quite effective. I am regularly keeping up with several players whose high run's are in the 70's (beat them about as often as they beat me). I still see tremendous room for improvement in my game, especially in the area of ball-pocketing and stroke repeatability. Once I'm able to make everything I shoot at with perfect position every time I should be able to run a few balls. My problem is that I compete fairly regularly with some very proficient professionals on some extremely tight tables, and it irks me that I can't give them more of a challenge. I'm just hoping to get good enough so that SJM won't hurt himself laughing when we finally get to play.

So we don't get completely off topic; Danny D. told me that within 6 months of picking up a cue for the first time, he ran 96. I always thought I was a fast learner, but 96 in 6 months is SICK!!!!!!
 
fxskater said:
doesnt anything over about 35 balls indicate that a 100 might be possible for that player. I pick 35 as a number because you would have to break at least 2 times in that run, you could get lucky and do it 2 more times in a row, and maybe 2 more after that for a 85 ball run. Anyone that doesn't fluke a 35 ball run (can make a 35 ball run 1 in 10 trys) has the potential to run 100.
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In his book, Continuous Hi-Runs, Johnny Holiday uses a 31 ball run as a cut-off point, and says that with 31, you have to execute at least 2 break shots, even if your opponent leaves you a 14 ball gift on the table.

Dennis
 
Williebetmore said:
Just a shameless (though unasked for and unpaid for) plug for Danny D. from a grateful student. The week before DCC I was fortunate to have Danny D. back in Indy for an entire day (and night) of straight pool. My wife even convinced him to cook one of his famous dinners - it was superb.

I was once again struck by his obvious love of the game, by his very entertaining personality, and by his incredible knowledge of the finer points of straight pool. For those aspiring players interested in short cuts to obtaining the knowledge of the masters (in straight pool, one-pocket, and nine ball); you should look up Danny D. As we played about 10 or 12 hours of straight pool, he would continuously analyze every shot (his and mine), explaining the WHY of every shot. Why he selects it, why he hits it a certain speed, what position he hopes to obtain, what part of the pocket to aim at, what safety features can be built into any shot, where to find the hidden English in combo-caroms, how to minimize your risk with every pattern that you choose, how to find the hidden carom/billiard/combo's that most players don't see, how to find the relatively easy "split shots" and unusual billiards that most players don't know (but will often save your run), why to hit each break shot with its own proper speed, why it is important to play intentional scratches in certain situations (and know what EXACTLY you hope to accomplish with these intentional scratches). As I mentioned in my post after the last lesson ("All Hail to ZigZagMaster"), I am still amazed by what can be found in the pack (WAY MORE than you might think, whatever your level of play).

I was struck by his openness in communicating these principles when he has spent his whole life learning them the hard way (ie. supporting his family through pool and gambling for 40 years). He criticized the great players of the mid-1900's who jealously guarded their knowledge and "secrets"; in his opinion damaging the game and preventing more widespread enjoyment of the game (as players find this fabulous game they will play for a while, and when proficiency eludes them through lack of knowledge will give it up in frustration). In lessons with other top professionals I have noticed that many have trouble communicating their knowledge, or just have to concentrate so much while they are playing that they can't talk and play at the same time - this was NOT a problem for Danny.

If I hadn't learned anything about pool playing, I would still have been fascinated by tales of his experiences. He has played most of the greats in the last half-century, and has interesting stories about Cicero, Willie, Luther, the Miz, Irving, Hopkins, Balsis, Rempe - all players I have admired for a long while.

I think he has led a tough, but interesting life. He is certainly having some trouble now with his vision. My advice is that the next time you see him at a tournament - spring for dinner or a lesson and soak up some of this knowledge first hand from one of the greats.

If I ever achieve even mediocrity in straight pool, I am running directly to Danny to start on that one-pocket game to which everyone here keeps referring (Efren wants a spot from him :) :) ).
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Sounds like a wonderful lesson. What does a lesson with DD cost?

I had a short two hour session with a local named Tom Karabotsos, where after we shot for awhile, I asked him to just keep shooting and tell me what he was doing and why he was doing it. A lot went over my head, but I could see that good players know exactly where they are going to break the balls and where the broken balls and the cue ball are going. Fundamental, I guess, but I had been playing a little sloppier, "hit 'em and hope" kind of shapes.

Dennis
 
I had the pleasure of standing by Danny as he critiqued a pro match. It sure does help to know what the pros are thinking when they approach a ball.

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to be inside a pro's head as he is running a table? To know what he is thinking on every shot.

That is why I like to see the announcers on TV try and predict what options a player has.

Jake
 
jjinfla said:
I had the pleasure of standing by Danny as he critiqued a pro match. It sure does help to know what the pros are thinking when they approach a ball. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to be inside a pro's head as he is running a table? To know what he is thinking on every shot.
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Danny is one of the old masters. To me, it sounds like your giving the pros of today too much credit. Though Danny, in theory, would often be relating what the pro whose play he is critiquing IS thinking, in practice he would often be relating what THEY SHOULD be thinking.

That's why we must hold on tight to the old masters still in our midst. The new generation of "old masters" includes guys like Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Buddy Hall, Ray Martin and so many other supergurus of life over the glorious green felt. We best listen when any of them talk.
 
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