Some Kind of Gambling Etiquette, Please!

crawfish

crawfish

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe I'm just old or something. This kind of sh#$ just pisses me off. Last night I played one of these league kids and gave up the nuts. He always talks about getting better and working hard, etc. After being talked into playing APA ( and I do mean talked into), I came on this kid in the match. I beat him. Played horrible, but still beat him. So.... he's over there "high fivin'" his girl and buddies about how close he came to knocking me off. Also, let's say that I am 4-0 giving this kid the six and the break. I've been down four sets and came back before with this guy. Anyway... I offered the kid the four and the break for some cheap sets. Of course he jumps up. He beats me 5-1 and has me 4-0 in the second set, and says, "I can only play until 10:30." It's 10:18 when this comes out. Man, I know I'm forty, but if I'd have done that back in the day, getting the four and the break, I'd have been laughed out of the poolroom. By the way, I had missed only one makeable ball, so let's say that the kid can play. When I've been down, I kept plugging away with him plenty of times. Maybe he needed to look good in front of his friends or something. I don't know. But, how can you look good in this situation. Plus, I'd have let him win at least four sets, and to be honest, I'd have had to outrun a losing game. This whole scenario just reminded me of why the older generation had more respect for the gambling. You'd never see someone get up on someone and just say, "I'm done." You'd get your a@@ kicked. I guess the times are a changin'. Pool is different, now. Money. Period. You hardly ever see someone want to be moved to an "A" player position. I wish some of these young kids could have seen pool in it's prime, 70's and 80's, early nineties. Okay, I'm done. I got the move put on me. I'm just plain old getting too old for this.
 
crawfish said:
By the way, I had missed only one makeable ball, so let's say that the kid can play.
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Maybe the kid saved you some money, by quitting.
Obviously, you weren't having a good night and he was.

In the long run, you will make money. The kid now believes he can beat you and he will come back for more. :D
 
It's not the cash

Rich R. said:
Maybe the kid saved you some money, by quitting.
Obviously, you weren't having a good night and he was.

In the long run, you will make money. The kid now believes he can beat you and he will come back for more. :D
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My point is that, in this day and age, pool is different. All of this ranking, has it hurt pool? Helped pool? Trust me, I wasn't worried about the cash. Just the way it was handled. If he had to leave at 10:30, shouldn't you have mentioned it at 9:45 when we started. I know he didn't sign a contract or anything (for all of you nits out there) but there is etiquette involved. Right?
 
every nits reply these days is: but i can quit any time i want, right?(DUH), this attitude is what is ruining action in most poolhalls today! all these nits get up a couple of games or sets and start defending the money, instead of trying to win, and then wonder why they never have a big score! to answer your question yes there is some sort of etiquette among real gamblers, you generally inform your opponent if you have time restraints, so he may choose his course of action, whether that be jacking it up, or just fighting down to the wire. i don't think you should even waste your time with that guy again, because obviously he's a nit and probably short barreling you anyway(YOU CAN'T WIN A NICKEL OFF HIM)!
 
ORRRR Maybe this happened. You can check my credentials with many people on this board. i am a hundred ball runner, i have gambled with the likes of many champions getting a little weight, and also won many tournaments. I love pool and in about the last 2 years i have gotten married bought a nice house and now i have things i can say or mine. i even got a real job. NOW to my point.... I play pool about once a week and still play pretty good, when i go to the pool hall i may play a buddy cheap or even an old rival but one thing for sure is when i play i am gonna quit when i want so i will be able to go to work and perform. Because if what you said was true where you played him "cheap" why would any human want to stay up all hours of the night to win "cheap". I know its gonna take about a 1000 for me to be non productive at work the whole next day or i am losing money. Secondly you are talking about a kid who plays league and you spot hhim the 4 lol that is a joke i know i can bet you play no where near my speed and if i spot somebody the four i know they cant make 2 balls in a row--- so quit crying becasue the kid probably doesnt even knwo gambling etiquette. And you said your forty and you act like this wow, trying to steal from a kid who cant make 2 balls in a row. ill tell you if you need the extra 50 bucks i will just give it to you
 
cincyman said:
ORRRR Maybe this happened. You can check my credentials with many people on this board. i am a hundred ball runner, i have gambled with the likes of many champions getting a little weight, and also won many tournaments. I love pool and in about the last 2 years i have gotten married bought a nice house and now i have things i can say or mine. i even got a real job. NOW to my point.... I play pool about once a week and still play pretty good, when i go to the pool hall i may play a buddy cheap or even an old rival but one thing for sure is when i play i am gonna quit when i want so i will be able to go to work and perform. Because if what you said was true where you played him "cheap" why would any human want to stay up all hours of the night to win "cheap". I know its gonna take about a 1000 for me to be non productive at work the whole next day or i am losing money. Secondly you are talking about a kid who plays league and you spot hhim the 4 lol that is a joke i know i can bet you play no where near my speed and if i spot somebody the four i know they cant make 2 balls in a row--- so quit crying becasue the kid probably doesnt even knwo gambling etiquette. And you said your forty and you act like this wow, trying to steal from a kid who cant make 2 balls in a row. ill tell you if you need the extra 50 bucks i will just give it to you
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I can relate to and agree with everything you just said. Personally, if I find myself in a game (rarely now), I try to collect all I can from my opponent, so quitting winner doesn't happen. But I could care less when my opponent wants to quit. They're going to be back. If you are playing someone who will not play you again, that's your mistake or misfortune.
 
Lets see

1) You only missed one ball makeable ball. This kid can play. What in the hell are you doing giving up the 4 and the breaks. If he can make 4 balls in a row, that is way too much spot. Are you a masochist?

2)Playing cheap and giving up the world will get you 1 thing. Your opponent will know your true speed on the cheap, know if he can beat you with the spot, and will come back for bigger sets in the future, and know just what to expect, so plan to lose more money in the future.

3) There is a difference between being wise and being smart. You had better learn the difference, for your pocketbooks sake.

4) There are nits everywhere today (or did they just learn not to be hustled), so cover all bases before the game starts, like noone quits without 1, 2, or 3 more sets. If you play big money, you had better stipulate this, or you could end up stuck, and mad.

5) Why would anyone force themselves into a spot that they have to outrun all the time to win? Many a player has fallen short of that goal, and better players than you. I can get 1:4 odds on a horse, why would I want to in Pool?

6) A fool and his money are soon parted.

7) He had you down 4 sets before???????????????????? Are you a masochist?

8) You got way too much ego.
 
I know the Emily Post book of gambling.
But lets just analyze WHY these "rules" came about.
Let's just say you call your bookie and put a bet down on the next basketball game. Your team covers the spread and you win. You are now up $1000. Does the bookie make you leave the money down for the next game? Hell No! He wouldn't have many "clients" if he operated this way. So ask yourself; Why does this rule apply in the pool hall? Well, it's for the hustlers. You see, if a hustler were to make a game, then beat you straight out of the gate, he loses the fish. Now if they tease you a bit by easing up on the first set or two, giving you the sensation that can only be credited to money won, they have you hooked. Once hooked it's like playing a fish (hence the term). Ease up when they try to pull away, and reel em in when they roll over for you.

So somwhere, sometime long ago, a hustler had a fish that was ready to take his money and go. When suddenly this rule was born.

"Hey buddy" he says "You can't quit winner. Everyone knows that. What are you; some sort of nit?"

"Me?" the fish says "I'm no nit" (Be it known the fish has no idea what a nit is. But he doesn't want to be one)

So the fish stays. Even though he has been up since 4am and has to be at work at 5am the next morning. Because he certainly doesn't want the nametag that says he's a "nit". Eventually the fish loses his job, his wife, his house, and the respect of his peers. He turns to the pool hall and starts gambling with every dime he can scrape up. Until one day, in walks a fella much like he was once. They play a set and our hero purposely dogs it to give his fish a taste. Then, unexpectedly, the new fish pulls up and says he must go now.


"Hey buddy! You can't quit winner. Everyone knows that. What are you; some sort of nit?"
 
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crawfish said:
He beats me 5-1 and has me 4-0 in the second set, and says, "I can only play until 10:30." It's 10:18 when this comes out.
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At this point, IMO, you should have offered to concede the second set. IF he agreed to play a third set for double the money.

I do question your spotting ability though. If you only missed one makeable ball giving up the 4 and breaks, the kid must shoot pretty good.

You’re right about ‘times have changed’ and nobody wants an even game anymore. And it isn’t just this sport but most of them IMO, society in general has changed. No respect and consideration for our fellow man.

The mighty cue, has pierced the heart of chivalry.

Rick
 
Not really a kid

cincyman said:
ORRRR Maybe this happened. You can check my credentials with many people on this board. i am a hundred ball runner, i have gambled with the likes of many champions getting a little weight, and also won many tournaments. I love pool and in about the last 2 years i have gotten married bought a nice house and now i have things i can say or mine. i even got a real job. NOW to my point.... I play pool about once a week and still play pretty good, when i go to the pool hall i may play a buddy cheap or even an old rival but one thing for sure is when i play i am gonna quit when i want so i will be able to go to work and perform. Because if what you said was true where you played him "cheap" why would any human want to stay up all hours of the night to win "cheap". I know its gonna take about a 1000 for me to be non productive at work the whole next day or i am losing money. Secondly you are talking about a kid who plays league and you spot hhim the 4 lol that is a joke i know i can bet you play no where near my speed and if i spot somebody the four i know they cant make 2 balls in a row--- so quit crying becasue the kid probably doesnt even knwo gambling etiquette. And you said your forty and you act like this wow, trying to steal from a kid who cant make 2 balls in a row. ill tell you if you need the extra 50 bucks i will just give it to you
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The guy is about 28-30 years old. I consider that a kid. I see him all of the time, and as far as how good I play, that spot really came into play. Sometimes I'll do this kind of game just to have something to play. There is only a handful of people that I can match up with even around where I live, in Raleigh. Most players have started playing poker. As far as your credentials, good for you. I wasn't necessarily bi#$&ing about this kid. But, the whole pool action scene in general. It's different. That four and the break is a world of a spot. Sometimes, you outrun outlandish spots, though. The "young man" does play pretty good. As far as me not playing near your speed, maybe. I played Rudolfo Luat with the seven and break. Cliff with the six and the break. That will gauge about where I play. I'm definitely not a world beater. My comments were that the pool world is entirely different.
 
crawfish said:
My point is that, in this day and age, pool is different. All of this ranking, has it hurt pool? Helped pool? Trust me, I wasn't worried about the cash. Just the way it was handled. If he had to leave at 10:30, shouldn't you have mentioned it at 9:45 when we started. I know he didn't sign a contract or anything (for all of you nits out there) but there is etiquette involved. Right?
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may be the older generation gamblers did not have to go to work next morning.The current generation have the jobs to go to next morning and this could be the reason your opponent wanted to leave at 10:30.I am only speculating.:cool:
 
I faired okay

BazookaJoe said:
Did you win?
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After being up two six ahead sets, I doubled up with Cliff, and he won that and we both decided to quit. Rudolfo just plain kicked like a mule. It was torture. I didn't play terrible. The guy just kept kicking balls in and playing perfect safe. I'm talking FROZEN to a ball. Much respect for that little fellow.
 
I agree will all the working people, I have to be at work at 7am, it is more important for me to be there fresh then to be a winner at 2am then go home. I ofter leave tournys still in the winner's bracket because it is getting too late, but I like to play. People can quit anytime for any reason.
Don't take it personal, life is too short. And if you have a good job, the money doesn't matter anymore any way, it certainly won't change your live style.
 
The reason the "kid" has poor pool hall etiquette is because people like you aren't teaching him the rules as I'm sure someone taught you. If you keep letting the new players get away with things like that, and never explain the proper way to handle things in a gambling situation, it will just keep getting worse. There seems to be a major problem with gambling etiquette and pool hall etiquette in general, but we all have the responsibility to help correct it. Help us all out, and explain the unwritten laws of the pool hall to this kid the next time you play him.
 
I agree

poolandpokerman said:
I agree will all the working people, I have to be at work at 7am, it is more important for me to be there fresh then to be a winner at 2am then go home. I ofter leave tournys still in the winner's bracket because it is getting too late, but I like to play. People can quit anytime for any reason.
Don't take it personal, life is too short. And if you have a good job, the money doesn't matter anymore any way, it certainly won't change your live style.
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I do have a good position, and am thankful for it. I just think it is discourteous to pull that kind of thing. Maybe he didn't realize it. I am just sad when I see the differences from now and back then. I can remember our weekly tournament had a field of 64, with names like Harold Dollar, Johnny Archer, Tony Ellin, Cliff Joyner, Roger Jackson, Joe Root, Tony Watson, Greg Brooks, Richie R., all might show up on the same night. Now, you hear "What's your rank?" more than ever. People used to want to be considered a good player, and most worked at it. I think pool has really fallen off. Maybe I'm just bitter. Now that I can finally make a ball or two, everyone switches to poker.
 
Seems to me like you gave a huge weight to a "Pretty good player" who had you 5-1 and 4-0 in ~1/2 hour of play . . . he was probably bored. :)
 
Thank you.

desert1pocket said:
The reason the "kid" has poor pool hall etiquette is because people like you aren't teaching him the rules as I'm sure someone taught you. If you keep letting the new players get away with things like that, and never explain the proper way to handle things in a gambling situation, it will just keep getting worse. There seems to be a major problem with gambling etiquette and pool hall etiquette in general, but we all have the responsibility to help correct it. Help us all out, and explain the unwritten laws of the pool hall to this kid the next time you play him.
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Thanks, that's pretty much what I was trying to get across.
 
Too much weight.

RRfireblade said:
Seems to me like you gave a huge weight to a "Pretty good player" who had you 5-1 and 4-0 in ~1/2 hour of play . . . he was probably bored. :)
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Yeah, it was torture, though I have won that way before. The guy is a seven in the APA. Whatever that means. I don't put much stock in that ranking system. He actually made two nines and three four balls on the snap in eleven games. Brutal.
 
Thoughts on gambling etiquette:

1) If there is a time-frame, state it up-front
2) Post-up
3) Suggestion can be made at anytime by either party to raise the bet, but both must agree
4) Loser can quit anytime, unless there's a freeze-out determined
5) Winner can only quit if the loser wants to quit or is broke
6) If winner wants to quit, give the person adequate time to get even or adjust it in the loser's favor.

My version of #6 is if I quit on a loser, I can't tell you how many times I've told someone to "keep it" when I quit up - maybe have them pay table time.

Am I off base? I think anything other than the above causes fights. Your thoughts?

Dave
 
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