I'm So Sick of 9-Ball

D

drivermaker

Banned
I feel like a drug addict when it comes to 9-ball...first of all I'm bored to death going around the table in quick circles day after day with somebody racking every couple of minutes, and it's made me lose my skills in other games. But it's an habit that I've got to break. Having seen the different threads on straight recently have refueled my interest in the game, even though you can't find anyone to play straight, but I want to go back to my roots of how I learned to play. Unfortunately, I can't play for shit any more and it's really disgusting. I can't spot patterns like I used to...I'm not planning ahead properly...and I'm sure as hell not leaving myself with the proper angles on many balls, especially the last one to break the racks open.

It's going to take time so the first thing I wanted to do was just get back in tune to where I can spot patterns and plan ahead. I'll get back into angles for breaking the rack in due time along with the strategizing. So I pulled out this Q-Skill Challenge that Allen Hopkins came up with that's kind of an off-shoot to Equal Offense or Fargo. It also gives you a way to rate or rank yourself. So here are the rules:

1. Rack fifteen balls on the Foot Spot, in any order, and place the cue ball ON the Head Spot. Break the balls. If you miscue or miss the cue ball completely, it is a foul. Re-Rack, break again and subtract one from your score. If you miscue and contact the rack, you may choose to continue shooting, leaving the balls where they lie and not take a foul.

2. If you scratch on the break, it is a minus 1, unless the cue ball goes off the table, then it is a minus 2. After a scratch on the break, you may place the cue ball on either the Head Spot of Foot Spot and shoot any ball on the table, or place the cue ball anywhere behind the Head String and shoot any ball above the Head String. On the break, if you scratch or the cue ball goes off the table, all balls made on the break stay down but do not count as points. If you do not scratch on the break, then all balls made on the break count as one point each.

3. After the break, if you do not have a shot or do not like the shot you have, you may choose one of three options. (a) Place the cue ball anywhere behind the Head String and shoot any ball above the Head String. (b) Place the cue ball on either the Head Spot or the Foot Spot and shoot any ball.
(c) Place the rack over the cue ball (where it lies) and move the cue ball anywhere inside the rack and shoot any ball. All of the options noted above are a penalty and incur a minus 1.

4. After the break, whether you made a ball or not, proceed to shoot, calling each shot. Try to run the table, shoting the ball in any order UNTIL THERE ARE FIVE BALLS REMAINING. If you do pocket ten balls, then the last five balls must be shot IN ROTATION (in numerical order starting with the lowest number ball). If you MISS A SHOT, the rack is OVER. There are no second chances or mulligans! The first ten balls score 1 point each, and the last five balls score 2 points each. On each rack you can score a MAXIMUM of 20 points.

5. When there are six balls on the table and you pocket two or more balls in one shot, they all stay down and are each worth 1 point. Shoot the remaining balls in rotation, in which each ball is worth 2 points each.

6. Ten racks comprise a session. In one session you can score a maximum of 200 points. The score from TEN SESSIONS (100 racks) determines your Official Rating. The highest possible Official Rating is a perfect score of 2000 points.

Here is the Rating System:

0-300 - Recreational Player
301-600 - Intermediate Player
601-900 - Advanced Player
901-1200- Developing Pro
1201-1600 - Semi-Pro
1601-1800 - Pro
1801-2000 - Touring Pro

You'll have to keep a running scorecard of each game and each session (10 games) for 10 sessions (100 games)

I feel like I have a lonnnnggg way to go yet because I've only been able to get into the mid-high range of Semi-Pro. I'm still making stupid ass mistakes and not planning properly on those last five balls, (along with just f*#king up on some easy shots within the first 10 to bring my game scores down. Besides this Rating System, I'd like to see DeadAim do it as well as some of you die hard better straight pool players and list your scores to give me something to shoot at. Give it a try, it's quite interesting, sometimes frustrating, and reveals your strengths and weaknesses. Remember...no mulligans and cheating.
 
drivermaker said:
...Remember...no mulligans and cheating.
Click to expand...

Of course ! This is pool, not golf :) Who cheats at pool or self-measurement ? :rolleyes:

This looks like an interesting test, I'll give it a go this evening and post how bad I am ...

Dave
 
drivermaker said:
I feel like a drug addict when it comes to 9-ball...first of all I'm bored to death going around the table in quick circles

So I pulled out this Q-Skill Challenge that Allen Hopkins came up with .
Click to expand...

D'maker,
A pro friend of mine has actually played a similar game, also developed by Allen Hopkins. In their version the first 9 balls are your choice (1 point apiece), the last 6 are in rotation (2 points apiece) - 21 points possible, but a 9 point bonus for sinking all 15 balls = 30 points max per rack. They were playing 10 rack sets, maximum points 300 per set (Allen called it "Bowlliards"). Only top pro's could exceed 270, and then only after playing it a while. I used to play it regularly when I was just starting, I think it is a little more challenging than the Q-skill challenge.

I may be able to try your challenge over the holidays (especially if others will try it - this means you SJM); however if my score is embarrassingly low I insist on the option of lying about it (but please don't tell my wife, Morgan Fairchild).

P.S. - If you are really bored with 9-ball there are surgical options you may consider to correct the condition (ie. frontal lobotomy). Sure, it lowers the I.Q. 60 or 70 points, but you are really going to enjoy watching t.v. (especially Jerry Springer, prime time reality shows, and the WWWF). In addition, you will have a new found enthusiasm for checkers and tic-tac-toe (though they may be a little challenging if you are playing too much 9-ball). You will certainly begin to understand what a great President Bill Clinton was, though you will be outraged at the Academy continuing to snub the great acting performances of Jim Carrey and Dennis Rodman.
 
Williebetmore said:
D'maker,
A pro friend of mine has actually played a similar game, also developed by Allen Hopkins. In their version the first 9 balls are your choice (1 point apiece), the last 6 are in rotation (2 points apiece) - 21 points possible, but a 9 point bonus for sinking all 15 balls = 30 points max per rack. They were playing 10 rack sets, maximum points 300 per set (Allen called it "Bowlliards"). Only top pro's could exceed 270, and then only after playing it a while. I used to play it regularly when I was just starting, I think it is a little more challenging than the Q-skill challenge.

I may be able to try your challenge over the holidays (especially if others will try it - this means you SJM); however if my score is embarrassingly low I insist on the option of lying about it (but please don't tell my wife, Morgan Fairchild).

P.S. - If you are really bored with 9-ball there are surgical options you may consider to correct the condition (ie. frontal lobotomy). Sure, it lowers the I.Q. 60 or 70 points, but you are really going to enjoy watching t.v. (especially Jerry Springer, prime time reality shows, and the WWWF). In addition, you will have a new found enthusiasm for checkers and tic-tac-toe (though they may be a little challenging if you are playing too much 9-ball). You will certainly begin to understand what a great President Bill Clinton was, though you will be outraged at the Academy continuing to snub the great acting performances of Jim Carrey and Dennis Rodman.
Click to expand...


It sounds the same as the Q-Skill challenge with the exception of one more ball for rotation. I do like the idea of the bonus for running all 15. I kinda feel screwed when I do it without some kind of reward. Maybe I'll graduate to it after scoring high enough in the Q-Skill challenge. I don't see any reason why 2 people couldn't play this together and just alternate racks.

What I've found is that it does help to have an explosive break to spread the balls out well and CB control on the break. If you have a lousy break it'll leave too many clusters and problems areas to work around. You CANNOT let up and lose concentration for 1 second on an easy shot that you take for granted, otherwise you blow yourself out of the rack immediately. It's been helping to follow Sigel's advice that I've seen somewhere over the years and that's to divide the table into grids around all of the pockets and methodically clean one area out at a time before going to another or running all around the table and getting into trouble.

Regarding your P.S......Uhhhhh....I don't think I need the lobotomy except for the last sentence of it. For that one I might need a transplant. :eek:
 
drivermaker said:
I don't see any reason why 2 people couldn't play this together and just alternate racks.
Click to expand...

D'maker,
Actually my instructor and I have played several matches as you describe, it is fun (and when you miss the very first ball, its good to have someone watching to keep you honest).

At risk of giving away "secrets", I was told that even the top pro's did not do well at the game UNTIL they discovered the proper strategy. It is essential that after the opening break you immediately pick your last 5 (or 6 if you are playing bowlliards) "rotation balls", and then work on making the first 10 balls in any order you can so that you end up with position on your first rotation ball. If you pick correctly, the last 5 should be close to a cosmo, and then the only trick is making sure you end up with good position at the end of the first 10 balls (very similar to straight pool end game). If you do it this way you will see your scores improve considerably.
 
Hey DM, how long does this take to do 10 sessions? It sounds fun, maybe I'll give it a try soon. I've never been one to do any type of practice drills except for whatever pops into my head at the time. Oh, and Jimmy, you can't play 9 ball either so stay away from the other games, lol. Don't even try telling the story of you beating me 14 games in a row on your table at your house, I'll deny it. Wait, I just told on myself, huh? And my backspace button won't work, dammit! Oh well, the truth is out. Peace.
 
Rude Dog said:
Hey DM, how long does this take to do 10 sessions? It sounds fun, maybe I'll give it a try soon. I've never been one to do any type of practice drills except for whatever pops into my head at the time. Oh, and Jimmy, you can't play 9 ball either so stay away from the other games, lol. Don't even try telling the story of you beating me 14 games in a row on your table at your house, I'll deny it. Wait, I just told on myself, huh? And my backspace button won't work, dammit! Oh well, the truth is out. Peace.
Click to expand...


It depends on how much time you can spend at the table. In the beginning, you can go through a few games like a buzz saw because you miss early due to bad strategy and being careless and you'll be through 1 session in no time. Actually, the better you get when running full racks, the longer it takes. Hell...if you're not careful you can (and will) miss on the first ball! Which means...END OF GAME! I've played as much as two sessions at one time (20 racks) and it seems like I need a break from concentrating. Then I'll come back a number of hours later for another session or so. It'll take a number of days to get all 10 sessions in. I think you'll like it because it gives you breaking practice (very good with 15 balls), shooting practice, strategizing, precision and I do mean precise position play, and rotation like 9ball, except you're using 5 at the end. You'll be quite surprised at your scores when you first do this, you might feel like a hack.

BTW, it's more than a practice drill. It's actually a game you can play by yourself and I guess with someone else. By yourself, you would just keep score and try to get to the next category or beat your record. With someone else, you could play from $1.00 to $100.00 per point differential per game and it would REALLY get interesting.
 
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DeadAim said:
Play for a couple of days. Come back to 9 ball and see how easy it is compared to 14.1. I guarantee your 9 ball game will improve. Allen's 9 ball system is great, but I found one drawback; I THINK??? It doesn't take into account safety play, does it? Just deals with pocketing balls.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree with you more.

For me, any game over the green felt that is all offense and no defense is far less interesting than nine ball.

Finally, my experience is as yours, playing a lot of 14.1 always raises my nine ball.
 
I don't know how to play straight pool. It's something I've been meaning to learn but I haven't gotten around to it. I'm still trying to figure out how to play decent 9ball.
 
drivermaker said:
I feel like a drug addict when it comes to 9-ball...first of all I'm bored to death going around the table in quick circles day after day with somebody racking every couple of minutes, and it's made me lose my skills in other games. But it's an habit that I've got to break. Having seen the different threads on straight recently have refueled my interest in the game, even though you can't find anyone to play straight, but I want to go back to my roots of how I learned to play. Unfortunately, I can't play for shit any more and it's really disgusting. I can't spot patterns like I used to...I'm not planning ahead properly...and I'm sure as hell not leaving myself with the proper angles on many balls, especially the last one to break the racks open.

It's going to take time so the first thing I wanted to do was just get back in tune to where I can spot patterns and plan ahead. I'll get back into angles for breaking the rack in due time along with the strategizing. So I pulled out this Q-Skill Challenge that Allen Hopkins came up with that's kind of an off-shoot to Equal Offense or Fargo. It also gives you a way to rate or rank yourself. So here are the rules:

1. Rack fifteen balls on the Foot Spot, in any order, and place the cue ball ON the Head Spot. Break the balls. If you miscue or miss the cue ball completely, it is a foul. Re-Rack, break again and subtract one from your score. If you miscue and contact the rack, you may choose to continue shooting, leaving the balls where they lie and not take a foul.

2. If you scratch on the break, it is a minus 1, unless the cue ball goes off the table, then it is a minus 2. After a scratch on the break, you may place the cue ball on either the Head Spot of Foot Spot and shoot any ball on the table, or place the cue ball anywhere behind the Head String and shoot any ball above the Head String. On the break, if you scratch or the cue ball goes off the table, all balls made on the break stay down but do not count as points. If you do not scratch on the break, then all balls made on the break count as one point each.

3. After the break, if you do not have a shot or do not like the shot you have, you may choose one of three options. (a) Place the cue ball anywhere behind the Head String and shoot any ball above the Head String. (b) Place the cue ball on either the Head Spot or the Foot Spot and shoot any ball.
(c) Place the rack over the cue ball (where it lies) and move the cue ball anywhere inside the rack and shoot any ball. All of the options noted above are a penalty and incur a minus 1.

4. After the break, whether you made a ball or not, proceed to shoot, calling each shot. Try to run the table, shoting the ball in any order UNTIL THERE ARE FIVE BALLS REMAINING. If you do pocket ten balls, then the last five balls must be shot IN ROTATION (in numerical order starting with the lowest number ball). If you MISS A SHOT, the rack is OVER. There are no second chances or mulligans! The first ten balls score 1 point each, and the last five balls score 2 points each. On each rack you can score a MAXIMUM of 20 points.

5. When there are six balls on the table and you pocket two or more balls in one shot, they all stay down and are each worth 1 point. Shoot the remaining balls in rotation, in which each ball is worth 2 points each.

6. Ten racks comprise a session. In one session you can score a maximum of 200 points. The score from TEN SESSIONS (100 racks) determines your Official Rating. The highest possible Official Rating is a perfect score of 2000 points.

Here is the Rating System:

0-300 - Recreational Player
301-600 - Intermediate Player
601-900 - Advanced Player
901-1200- Developing Pro
1201-1600 - Semi-Pro
1601-1800 - Pro
1801-2000 - Touring Pro

You'll have to keep a running scorecard of each game and each session (10 games) for 10 sessions (100 games)

I feel like I have a lonnnnggg way to go yet because I've only been able to get into the mid-high range of Semi-Pro. I'm still making stupid ass mistakes and not planning properly on those last five balls, (along with just f*#king up on some easy shots within the first 10 to bring my game scores down. Besides this Rating System, I'd like to see DeadAim do it as well as some of you die hard better straight pool players and list your scores to give me something to shoot at. Give it a try, it's quite interesting, sometimes frustrating, and reveals your strengths and weaknesses. Remember...no mulligans and cheating.
Click to expand...

I'm not a super good player. My high run in straight is only 32 or so, but I'd be willing to give this a try if others do. Dennis
 
dmgwalsh said:
I'm not a super good player. My high run in straight is only 32 or so, but I'd be willing to give this a try if others do. Dennis
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Don't wait for anyone else...this is a super little game to play by yourself that builds pressure and will infuriate the hell out of you when you make a boneheaded mistake. It really does make you focus on making each shot in addition to pinpoint position and planning. Plus, it shows you where you stand and what kind of progress you're making over time with the scoring system. It sure beats just banging balls around.
 
drivermaker said:
Don't wait for anyone else...this is a super little game to play by yourself that builds pressure and will infuriate the hell out of you when you make a boneheaded mistake. It really does make you focus on making each shot in addition to pinpoint position and planning. Plus, it shows you where you stand and what kind of progress you're making over time with the scoring system. It sure beats just banging balls around.
Click to expand...

Well, I am doing things other than just banging balls around.

There is also the Rempe 15 balls out run them all without touching the rail routine that can be done.

Max Eberle suggested just throwing 15 out and seeing how many broken racks you can run just to learn how to keep the focus up.

There's equal offense.

Then there's my usual drills and maybe some straight pool practice.

But the poster mentioned seeing if others would do this and then compare notes so that's what I was posting about.

I may try this either way this weekend though.

Dennis
 
Dennis, this is a good "drill" and I think if you try it you will keep at it. I did it for a while, I will have to look up my old scores, but have been working on other things lately. I was thinking last night about getting my score sheets out and starting this up again, now I guess Ill have to :)

On a side note, I have thought about altering the game to suit straight pool. I figured 1 pt for each ball made, and 6 bonus points at the end of the rack if the last ball I pocket sends the cueball into the rack area. This would give me practice for finding the key and break balls and getting the right angle on the last ball. Any thoughts?
 
woody_968 said:
Dennis, this is a good "drill" and I think if you try it you will keep at it. I did it for a while, I will have to look up my old scores, but have been working on other things lately. I was thinking last night about getting my score sheets out and starting this up again, now I guess Ill have to :)

On a side note, I have thought about altering the game to suit straight pool. I figured 1 pt for each ball made, and 6 bonus points at the end of the rack if the last ball I pocket sends the cueball into the rack area. This would give me practice for finding the key and break balls and getting the right angle on the last ball. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I'll do it too and we can compare scores for the heckuvit. :)

Let's do it the old fashioned way so that if others have scores, we won't be comparing apples to oranges.

I practice a bit where I just throw out 5 or 6 balls near the rack and practice getting a break ball. First few times I just had a setup ball near the side of the rack and a side pocket ball and another three or four random. Now I just throw them out and see what I can do with it.

Dennis
 
Qskil

woody_968 said:
Dennis, this is a good "drill" and I think if you try it you will keep at it. I did it for a while, I will have to look up my old scores, but have been working on other things lately. I was thinking last night about getting my score sheets out and starting this up again, now I guess Ill have to :)

On a side note, I have thought about altering the game to suit straight pool. I figured 1 pt for each ball made, and 6 bonus points at the end of the rack if the last ball I pocket sends the cueball into the rack area. This would give me practice for finding the key and break balls and getting the right angle on the last ball. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

did my first ten racks. 105.

started with a 9 and screwed up looking for shape on the last 5. had two 20s. Started getting the hang of it towards the end. Dennis
 
D'maker,
I just finished my first 10 rack session. I think it might be a little too easy for the better players (NOT ME). I've played a lot of "bowlliards" with the pro's as I described above, and it seems a LOT harder - even though the rules are only slightly different. I think it is because (in your version) the extra ball in the first 10 gives you more time and opportunity to break clusters. In the "bowlliards" version I described, there is less time and opportunity to deal with clusters and problem balls, and there is a huge penalty for not finishing the runout; the extra ball in rotation definitely adds to the difficulty in planning and executing your final rotation runout. I think the pro's would all be scoring right near 200 every game (whereas in bowlliards they have great difficulty getting 250 out of 300). So far, I like your version much better - it gives me more straight pool type practice, more time to break clusters (which is my favorite part of pool), less difficulty in planning and running the rotation part (which I suck at when there are more than 6 or 7 balls - 5 balls seem much more possible for me). JMO.
 
Williebetmore said:
D'maker,
I just finished my first 10 rack session. I think it might be a little too easy for the better players (NOT ME). I've played a lot of "bowlliards" with the pro's as I described above, and it seems a LOT harder - even though the rules are only slightly different. I think it is because (in your version) the extra ball in the first 10 gives you more time and opportunity to break clusters. In the "bowlliards" version I described, there is less time and opportunity to deal with clusters and problem balls, and there is a huge penalty for not finishing the runout; the extra ball in rotation definitely adds to the difficulty in planning and executing your final rotation runout. I think the pro's would all be scoring right near 200 every game (whereas in bowlliards they have great difficulty getting 250 out of 300). So far, I like your version much better - it gives me more straight pool type practice, more time to break clusters (which is my favorite part of pool), less difficulty in planning and running the rotation part (which I suck at when there are more than 6 or 7 balls - 5 balls seem much more possible for me). JMO.
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I talked to Allen Hopkins about the Q-Skill game around a year or two ago and he felt that it was an accurate assessment of a player's skill level on the scoring that he devised. Up to that point no one had gotten a perfect 2000 score, not even he and it was tested among a good number of top pro's.

Too much can go wrong right off of the break. If you're setting the CB up on the head spot as the rules state, you have to have a really powerful break to scramble those balls and not scratch or get snookered. Unlike Equal Offense, you don't get CB in hand to start off, you MUST play it as it lies right off the break unless you want to take an one point deduction with the 3 options. Additionally, unless you're used to playing a lot of straight, thinking your way around clusters and breaking them up are a problem if you came up goofy on your break.

I haven't played this in quite a while, it's just been 9 ball...9 ball...9 ball, and that's why I started the thread. Nothing but 9 ball screws you up and it was a royal kick in the ass to find that out when I started playing this again. And I've been playing REALLY good 9 ball. Hey...I'm with you on what the game should be to determine a world champion...14.1. It's the consummate game.
 
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