Racking At The "Stone" A Joke
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
Solution, Magic Rack and Rack the 9 on the spot with 3 balls needing to pass the line. I got tired of watching the R.Morris / Ignacio match for just that reason.
Its your medication Johnny, it's slowing your brain down to where it looks like everything is in slow motion:thumbup:
Yeah, those were the days when I smoked my "medication"and the whole world slowed down. Everything W/O it is too fast. Johnnyt
I agree! If you get a GOOD break, the game is usually over without your opponent having a turn at the table. However, MANY, MANY, MANY of the players had RATHER try to manipulate the rack than PRACTICE the break. Then they COMPLAIN that they can't fade SVB's break and say he ISN'T the best player...just the BEST breaker. If they practiced the break as much as SVB they wouldn't have to manipulate the rack.
The rack manipulating and 1-Foul rules have RUINED 9-ball.
Aloha.
I think that once you get to a certain level in 9 ball, a third party to rack the balls is almost a must in an effort to have the fairest game.
Chris, what would you do if you could just "snap your fingers" and make changes?
I agree, Chris, what would you do if you could just "snap your fingers" and make changes today at TURNING STONE? Within reason of course.
I agree, Chris, what would you do if you could just "snap your fingers" and make changes today at TURNING STONE? Within reason of course.
I agree. In the TAR video Shane did on breaking he said that he felt like the magic rack didn't help him much but it was a more neutral racking option for most players because it made the rack at least a little more consistent for all players.
Note "more" neutral because I am sure there is some cute pro trick for cheating that too.
I also know that more 9 ball events with pros in them have been considering racking on the spot to reduce the wing balls going down.
And for the haters, I'm not saying Shane is always right but on the break topic I put his opinion a little higher up on the list than some others.
Don't worry, RKC. I am sure you can still staple better than Shane.
Well..,
I think that the racking argument is a totally American player thing, like most of he 9 Ball issues. I just came back form Japan and I watched tournaments and money matches everyday, no racking conflicts.
I didn't get to see any matching up when I was in Germany last year, but the tournaments I went to didn't have any of this racking BS going on either.
One foul hasn't messed up 9 Ball, the American players have. Everywhere else the players are playing by the same rules we are and mastering the game, the focus on running out and playing the game at the highest level, not tricks and gimmicks.
I think that the racking argument is a totally American player thing, like most of he 9 Ball issues. I just came back form Japan and I watched tournaments and money matches everyday, no racking conflicts.
I didn't get to see any matching up when I was in Germany last year, but the tournaments I went to didn't have any of this racking BS going on either.
One foul hasn't messed up 9 Ball, the American players have. Everywhere else the players are playing by the same rules we are and mastering the game, the focus on running out and playing the game at the highest level, not tricks and gimmicks.
Yeah, I agree its more an issue than it should be in pro matches.
I wonder how much of that is the perception that if you don't get a ball on the break EVERY time you will lose the match.
In winner breaks, I think there is a BIG perception that if you DON"T break as well as SVB, when you are playing HIM, you will LOSE.
That may or may not be true, but when players like him, Earl, Efren, etc. have plenty of 6-, 7-, 8- (and higher) PACKS from the break you get a bit "paranoid" if you aren't making one on the break.
It is the guys who rarely have BIG PACKS who are the rack manipulators from what I have observed.
I agree about the perception. I am torn on who the rack manipulators are though but that is more about my inexperience. I have heard some say "they all do it but the better players are better at hiding it" and other say "the good breakers don't need it". I honestly don't know who to believe and don't know any of those guys personally so I can't speak to their intentions.
I do feel like the magic rack probably reduces some of that though because you might be able to force a backside gap (or whatever the trick is) but its a least a little trickier probably. Also, I think on semi-final matches using a neutral person to rack seems like it would be feasible and take some of that doubt out of play.
Didn't the IPT have some guy with white gloves racking every time?
It's not "rocket science," even a 5th grader can tell when it's being done.
It's easy to see who the rack manipulators are. The can ONLY do it by touching either the back two, middle balls and/or touching the one ball after the balls are racked.
It's not "rocket science," even a 5th grader can tell when it's being done.
It's easy to see who the rack manipulators are. The can ONLY do it by touching either the back two, middle balls and/or touching the one ball after the balls are racked.
It's not "rocket science," even a 5th grader can tell when it's being done.
Your right,
Your right, but there are only so many guys that have a really big break, the kind of break that would be considered a advantage!! Think about it, most players cant name 5 guys that have really big breaks and if you can name 5 I'm sure none of them are top players over all so their break doesn't matter if they cant get out anyway.
SVB, Archer (who isn't winning anymore), Rodney Morris (isn't consistently winning). Larry Neval, Hill Billy, neither are winning anything, so are we talking about a good break or just making a ball and being able to see the next ball in rotation to run the rack?
Your right, but there are only so many guys that have a really big break, the kind of break that would be considered a advantage!! Think about it, most players cant name 5 guys that have really big breaks and if you can name 5 I'm sure none of them are top players over all so their break doesn't matter if they cant get out anyway.
SVB, Archer (who isn't winning anymore), Rodney Morris (isn't consistently winning). Larry Neval, Hill Billy, neither are winning anything, so are we talking about a good break or just making a ball and being able to see the next ball in rotation to run the rack?
Chris Bartrom breaks pretty good, and he does it without rack manipulation.
Chris Bartrom breaks pretty good, and he does it without rack manipulation.
So does Francisco Bustemante, Earl Strickland, and many of the international players.
Chris Bartrom breaks pretty good, and he does it without rack manipulation.
So does Francisco Bustemante, Earl Strickland, and many of the international players.
Thats it!
There's a poster on AZ that does a great job with keeping up with break stats of most of the tournaments that are streamed and if you read his post you will notice that the breaker wins only a small percentage more than the racker.
How many 6, 7 or 8 packs have you seen a major tournament or in a money match on TAR?
It's the players that win, Lee Van's break is just ok, anybody want to play him for the cash?
There's a poster on AZ that does a great job with keeping up with break stats of most of the tournaments that are streamed and if you read his post you will notice that the breaker wins only a small percentage more than the racker.
How many 6, 7 or 8 packs have you seen a major tournament or in a money match on TAR?
It's the players that win, Lee Van's break is just ok, anybody want to play him for the cash?
Agree for the most part, but the Niels Feijen complaints DURING the 2014 US Open showed us that the Europeans are not always above making a federal case out of how and where the balls are racked and what rules govern the 9-ball break.
This issue would make good material for study of human behavior. It goes on and on, year after year, and decade after decade.