Low deflection isn't always a good thing

softshot

softshot

Simplify
Silver Member
a player in a lower leauge asked me for help tonite..they had a problem with long... along the rail shots. and asked for my advice....

I told them it depends on which side of the side pocket the object ball is.. they complained about the side pocket "tits" I told them shooting long shots down the long rail it depends on which side of the side pocket your OB is on.. if its on the far side of the side pocket shoot inside english deflect the cueball away from the tits and and let the english pull it back towards your OB.. if its on the close side of the side pocket shoot outside english and let the transfered spin on the OB pull it away from the "tits"

they nailed it every time on the close side shooting with my method

they caught the tit every time when it was on the far side.

at first I couldn't understand it... so I shot it 5 times I made every one

they tried 5 times and didn't make it once... then I noticed the "cat" on their shaft..

I counted on deflection to make the shot.

but their big money shaft wouldn't let them make that shot....


I still say knowing your shaft is worth more than the money you spent on it.

low deflection isn't always a good thing.




they missed because their cue wouldn't let them make the shot.
 
Really?

I'm probably the last person that should say this and surely someone else will explain this but I think they didn't make it because they were not able to.

Ciao.
 
well, let me ask just for the sake of argument what if there was a no deflection shaft. now couldn't they just aim right where your shaft deflects to and get the same result??

i just dont see how having a low deflection shaft makes it so they cant make the ball. in other words their shafts would let them make it, they just had to aim it right.
 
enzo said:
well, let me ask just for the sake of argument what if there was a no deflection shaft. now couldn't they just aim right where your shaft deflects to and get the same result??

i just dont see how having a low deflection shaft makes it so they cant make the ball. in other words their shafts would let them make it, they just had to aim it right.
Click to expand...

there might be some truth to that..but given all the players on the forum that have a new shaft every Friday.. the minor compensations required for each shaft could plague their game forever.

Stick to your stick.

learn how your chunk of wood plays and master it. it will do your game more good that another $200 investment ever will...

learn what you have....don't buy something new to compensate for every time you have the money.

I think that is sound advice....
 
crappoolguy said:
That is sound advice, but low deflection will always be better if you are used to it.
Click to expand...


I don't buy that.. you can get used to any shaft if you give it enough time.

I'll give you this proposition. hypothetically

I'll give you a reasonable quality butt ... with a "new and improved" low deflection shaft that you haven't played with before.

I take my shaft that I have played with for years.

given equal skill

who wins?
 
CB Deflection Adjustment

enzo said:
well, let me ask just for the sake of argument what if there was a no deflection shaft. now couldn't they just aim right where your shaft deflects to and get the same result??

i just dont see how having a low deflection shaft makes it so they cant make the ball. in other words their shafts would let them make it, they just had to aim it right.
Click to expand...

I agree. The player must make the adjustment for the loss of CB deflection on the LD shaft.

"they missed because their cue wouldn't let them make the shot."-softshot

I think they missed the shot because they didn't know how to execute the shot correctly with the low deflection shaft.

A small adjustment would make it possible to make the shot. Adding a little low english with the side english and/or a little elevation in the cue while aiming a hair away from the rail will simulate the CB deflection that is symptomatic of a regular shaft.

BTW: If the CB and OB are frozen to the rail, then....if the table is set up right....then dead center CB should work, but it requires near perfect mechanics.

If the table cloth is worn or dirty near the rails, then the balls could be getting table roll.
 
softshot said:
I don't buy that.. you can get used to any shaft if you give it enough time.

I'll give you this proposition. hypothetically

I'll give you a reasonable quality butt ... with a "new and improved" low deflection shaft that you haven't played with before.

I take my shaft that I have played with for years.

given equal skill

who wins?
Click to expand...



I said that if you are USED to it, a low deflection shaft will be better. If the player is used to the low deflection shaft, and he is of the same skill as you, then I'd say that it would be pretty even but player A would definately have the edge.
 
okinawa77 said:
I agree. The player must make the adjustment for the loss of CB deflection on the LD shaft.

"they missed because their cue wouldn't let them make the shot."-softshot

I think they missed the shot because they didn't know how to execute the shot correctly with the low deflection shaft.

A small adjustment would make it possible to make the shot. Adding a little low english with the side english and/or a little elevation in the cue while aiming a hair away from the rail will simulate the CB deflection that is symptomatic of a regular shaft.

BTW: If the CB and OB are frozen to the rail, then....if the table is set up right....then dead center CB should work, but it requires near perfect mechanics.

If the table cloth is worn or dirty near the rails, then the balls could be getting table roll.
Click to expand...


I understand what you are saying up to a point...but adding elevation to your cue makes it harder every single time.

level cue= predictable shot

elevated cue = luck needed

they can't make the shot as it is elevating the cue just complicates things.
 
crappoolguy said:
I said that if you are USED to it, a low deflection shaft will be better. If the player is used to the low deflection shaft, and he is of the same skill as you, then I'd say that it would be pretty even but player A would definately have the edge.
Click to expand...

better to who? we have reached a moot point. given equal skill I'm better with my shaft.. your better with the shaft your used to.

learning your low deflection shaft or learning my normal shaft. it still comes down to learning YOUR shaft.

you bought the hype and bought the shaft,,,I took a normal shaft

given equal skill and equal time to learn the shaft... its a wash

so why spend the extra money on low deflection?

just learn the shaft you have.
 
take this example..I have mastered a normal shaft... you have mastered your low deflection shaft.... we are in a situation where neither of us have our cues...who has the advantage???
 
softshot said:
they missed because their cue wouldn't let them make the shot.
Click to expand...


They missed because of a flaw in their mechanics. To make the ball go into the pocket, they have to properly have the cue ball make contact with the object ball at the precise contact point. The player didn't make the shot because he failed to do that.

It has nothing to do with the shaft, and everything to do with the player.

If their is an issue with low deflection shafts, the player needs to make the adjustment.

I spoke with John Schmidt about this topic when he switched to the OB-1 shaft. He had a hell of a time making the adjustment, but eventually he figured it out enough to run 403 balls in straight pool. For a while, John couldn't spin a shot in to save his life. It wasn't the shaft at all, it was the way John was trying to make the shots. With the proper adjustments in alignment and compensating for the deflection that he was used to, he has persevered and he loves his OB-1 shaft. Just ask him!

Myself, I practice those same exact rail shots every single day for about 20 minutes - I am using a Predator Z Shaft - and I make these shots. When I miss them, its because I failed, not because the shaft failed.

This weekend I will be trying out a new OB-1 and I guarantee you that if I miss anything, it'll still be MY fault.
:p
 
softshot said:
better to who? we have reached a moot point. given equal skill I'm better with my shaft.. your better with the shaft your used to.

learning your low deflection shaft or learning my normal shaft. it still comes down to learning YOUR shaft.

you bought the hype and bought the shaft,,,I took a normal shaft

given equal skill and equal time to learn the shaft... its a wash

so why spend the extra money on low deflection?

just learn the shaft you have.
Click to expand...

I agree. The key to executing shots successfully lies in the hands of the beholder......not necessarily what lies in what is in the hands of the beholder. I used to play with house cues, and you know wants fun about house cues...almost every one of them plays differently. So, if you don't mind losing the first few games in order to get used to the cue and make adjustments, then so be it. But sticking with one playing cue will enable a player to play more consistently, for the simple fact that you already know how your cue plays.

I also agree with your statement about people getting new cues/shafts every week. Going back and forth from low deflection and/or changing equipment can really screw up your game. Unless you have the adjustments down pat, but who wants to have to make tons of adjustments by changing shafts.
 
Softshot:
why spend the extra money on low deflection?
just learn the shaft you have.
Click to expand...

There is an objective advantage to making a smaller aim adjustment for squirt - it's more accurate for everybody that's willing to get used to it.

If your rifle sights are off so that you have to aim 1/2 inch to the right of your target, that's worse than if your sights are dead on because you have to estimate where 1/2 inch is. And if your sights are off so that you have to aim 12 inches to the right, that's even worse yet, because it's harder to estimate 12 inches precisely than it is to estimate 1/2 inch precisely. The farther off your sights are, the less accurate you can be, even if you're used to it.

That's what squirt does to aiming in pool, and why it's inherently better (that means for anybody) to have less. So if you're just starting out in pool, it's always better to have as little squirt as possible. The only reason you might want more squirt is if that's what you're used to and you don't want to change. But you'll be at a disadvantage compared to somebody who's used to a low squirt cue - probably a small disadvantage, but not zero.

pj
chgo
 
Predator vs. OB1

Blackjack said:
Myself, I practice those same exact rail shots every single day for about 20 minutes - I am using a Predator Z Shaft - and I make these shots. When I miss them, its because I failed, not because the shaft failed.

This weekend I will be trying out a new OB-1 and I guarantee you that if I miss anything, it'll still be MY fault.
:p
Click to expand...

Blackjack,

I am curious as to know what you think between the 2 shafts. I have a 314 that I use off and on.
And I am just curious if you see a difference between the OB1 and Predator.
Please let us all know your opinions after you have worn out that OB1.
 
Good perspective

Patrick Johnson said:
There is an objective advantage to making a smaller aim adjustment for squirt - it's more accurate for everybody that's willing to get used to it.

If your rifle sights are off so that you have to aim 1/2 inch to the right of your target, that's worse than if your sights are dead on because you have to estimate where 1/2 inch is. And if your sights are off so that you have to aim 12 inches to the right, that's even worse yet, because it's harder to estimate 12 inches precisely than it is to estimate 1/2 inch precisely. The farther off your sights are, the less accurate you can be, even if you're used to it.

That's what squirt does to aiming in pool, and why it's inherently better (that means for anybody) to have less. So if you're just starting out in pool, it's always better to have as little squirt as possible. The only reason you might want more squirt is if that's what you're used to and you don't want to change. But you'll be at a disadvantage compared to somebody who's used to a low squirt cue - probably a small disadvantage, but not zero.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

That is a good perspective. I didn't think of it that way. You make an interesting and valid point.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
There is an objective advantage to making a smaller aim adjustment for squirt - it's more accurate for everybody that's willing to get used to it.

If your rifle sights are off so that you have to aim 1/2 inch to the right of your target, that's worse than if your sights are dead on because you have to estimate where 1/2 inch is. And if your sights are off so that you have to aim 12 inches to the right, that's even worse yet, because it's harder to estimate 12 inches precisely than it is to estimate 1/2 inch precisely. The farther off your sights are, the less accurate you can be, even if you're used to it.

That's what squirt does to aiming in pool, and why it's inherently better (that means for anybody) to have less. So if you're just starting out in pool, it's always better to have as little squirt as possible. The only reason you might want more squirt is if that's what you're used to and you don't want to change. But you'll be at a disadvantage compared to somebody who's used to a low squirt cue - probably a small disadvantage, but not zero.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

that may be true if there was a zero deflection shaft but it doesn't exist.. so you still have to compensate. the amount of compensation doesn't really matter because it will vary from shaft to shaft even between two "identical" predators.

you have to learn your compensation the same way I learned mine by sinking a bunch of balls.

you may have a small advantage at the beginning of that process because you start closer to the final goal.. but once I dial mine in I am equally as accurate as you are. the difference being If I am using a house cue.. my compensation for that night is vastly different than yours. its much less.

how many times have you seen a predator hanging on the wall?
 
Me:
If your rifle sights are off so that you have to aim 1/2 inch to the right of your target, that's worse than if your sights are dead on because you have to estimate where 1/2 inch is. And if your sights are off so that you have to aim 12 inches to the right, that's even worse yet, because it's harder to estimate 12 inches precisely than it is to estimate 1/2 inch precisely. The farther off your sights are, the less accurate you can be, even if you're used to it.

Softshot:
that may be true if there was a zero deflection shaft but it doesn't exist...
Click to expand...

You seem to have missed the point. Oh well, others will get it.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
You seem to have missed the point. Oh well, others will get it.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...


I didn't miss your point.. I just see it differently... you are saying that for a novice they can become decent faster with a LD shaft. because they can hit closer to the aim point. and that is true.

I am saying that for their overall game in many different situations taking the time to learn a standard shaft. will serve them better for the long haul. dealing with house cues and such. they will have a game that can adapt much more easily to the current playing conditions than someone who is born and bred on LD.
 
softshot said:
better to who? we have reached a moot point. given equal skill I'm better with my shaft.. your better with the shaft your used to.

learning your low deflection shaft or learning my normal shaft. it still comes down to learning YOUR shaft.

you bought the hype and bought the shaft,,,I took a normal shaft

given equal skill and equal time to learn the shaft... its a wash

so why spend the extra money on low deflection?

just learn the shaft you have.
Click to expand...



I DIDN'T buy a low deflection shaft, I never said I did. I play with an 11mm tip ash cue (which has little to no deflection) and I would never change cues if someone payed me to, because I love it. Even though I don't have a low deflection shaft, I still think that the player with the low squirt shaft will have a slight edge over the player who doesn't if they have equal skills.
 
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