Another Small Local Tournament in ATL. More fun and $$ for you & friends!

Sharkeyes said:

Hey guys, just wanted to let fellow ATL'ers and traveling folk know that starting in January 2006, there will very possibly be another money tournament at The Pool Room in Marietta. From the looks of it, the weekly tournament will be a handicapped 9-ball event with the possibility of running a players auction. This is just to provide another opportunity for people to enjoy this growing competitive sport even more (and maybe pay off a few late bills? =P)

John and I are looking to run it on Wednesday or Friday night (not sure yet) with a great big possibility of additional cash added! If any of you players have any suggestions or simply want to impart some wisdom about the idea, please respond because we want to make this the best running weekly tournament ever! Hope to hear from you guys!

My Best,

Angelo

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Well you definently need a players auction and a handicapped tournament will be great for the local players, since there is not a local tournament that is handicapped except for Cues. $15 entry fee and the house adding $50 to $100. Wednesday night will be great but your going to have to stop the poker tournament to get more players. If you have it on Friday than you will have to stop that poker tournament as well. You will also have to pass out flyers to make it a ligetimate tournament for all of Atlanta. Just not the local Pool Room players.

Friday makes the most sense, since Wednseday is a heavy league night that many of the weekend tournament regulars participate in...imo.

Oh and Angelo, like I said, give me the 8 and I'll play ya for $20 ;-)!

cuechick said:

Friday makes the most sense, since Wednseday is a heavy league night that many of the weekend tournament regulars participate in...imo.

Oh and Angelo, like I said, give me the 8 and I'll play ya for $20 ;-)!

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Who will be doin the handicapin ??

Sharkeyes said:

We're going to put up some flyers and banners for the tournament as I already have a sample one done. It just needs to pass inspection with John for it to be legit. I'm still leaning heavily on having a player auction with a $5 starting fee to bid on players. But everything is transpiring pretty well, and hopefully we can get as many people as possible out here on our inaugural run. Many props to John for his support of the idea. Now I just need the rest of the community to pitch in and have some fun!

Regards,

Angelo

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Hey Angelo I can do the handicapping. I know everybody lol. I see everything! Appreciate your congrats. My heart pumps oil baby!


Im like a Marlboro Red,

Call me the cowboy killer lol

Sharkeyes said:

Hey guys, just wanted to let fellow ATL'ers and traveling folk know that starting in January 2006, there will very possibly be another money tournament at The Pool Room in Marietta. From the looks of it, the weekly tournament will be a handicapped 9-ball event with the possibility of running a players auction. This is just to provide another opportunity for people to enjoy this growing competitive sport even more (and maybe pay off a few late bills? =P)

John and I are looking to run it on Wednesday or Friday night (not sure yet) with a great big possibility of additional cash added! If any of you players have any suggestions or simply want to impart some wisdom about the idea, please respond because we want to make this the best running weekly tournament ever! Hope to hear from you guys!

My Best,

Angelo

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Angelo, just for the record. IMO, handicapped events have destroyed pool in many regions. The Atlanta are, is currently one of the best regions for pool in the US. Please don't contribute to it's demise in the area by running HCP events.

I suggest holding open events that anyone can play in or only restricting them to non-pro or no top players allowed events with low entry fees.

HCP events always, ALWAYS lead to players being discouraged because they may feel the HCPs are wrong. It also promotes sandbagging.

Open events encourage players to play their best and to try harder which leads to wanting to play more. This is better for tournaments, players and pool room owners.

If I can help you in any way please don't hesitate to call me.

Respectfully,

Mj

Hey Mike,
The Poolroom already has several 'open' weekly events, that get a good turnout. I think the HC tournament idea is a good addition. Cues II has held a Monday night HC tournament for a while that is very popular and easily gets 30 or more players a week, with an auction.
Pool has so many levels and having events where C and D level players do nothing but donate to the pot for the 'experience' can wear on the soul of any diehard. A well run HC tournament, like the tri state tour in NY or the small weekly at Cues, gives anyone the chance to cash.
What Angelo is talking about is mostly a known quantity of local players...and I think will be popular and fun.
I would suggest that any unknown player must start as a B...this is what another popular weekly in Queens has always done and it has done well.
Cheers!

cuechick said:

Hey Mike,
The Poolroom already has several 'open' weekly events, that get a good turnout. I think the HC tournament idea is a good addition. Cues II has held a Monday night HC tournament for a while that is very popular and easily gets 30 or more players a week, with an auction.
Pool has so many levels and having events where C and D level players do nothing but donate to the pot for the 'experience' can wear on the soul of any diehard. A well run HC tournament, like the tri state tour in NY or the small weekly at Cues, gives anyone the chance to cash.
What Angelo is talking about is mostly a known quantity of local players...and I think will be popular and fun.
I would suggest that any unknown player must start as a B...this is what another popular weekly in Queens has always done and it has done well.
Cheers!

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CueChick, if they start doing HCP events at the pool room the Open events participation will decrease drastically over time.

One of the best ways to get better at this sport is to constantly be challenged by playing better opponents. Playing in open events is a cheap and great way to learn and develop your skills. When you play better opponents it will strengthen your game. You will start to understand the importance of safeties, pattern play and precision. Over time you will learn by experience and be a better player for it.

Speaking of NY. Several years ago there was a tour called The Empire State Tour (exact name?). It was totally awesome. All the events were open to any player. Somewhere in it's history they moved it to a HCP tour. As a result of this, almost every open event in the region disappeared. Then all events started to get smaller and smaller fields. It completely destroyed good tournament competition in the region for several years. It took Mike Zuglan with the Joss Tour quite some time to get things going again.


Mj

Tournament

bigsamho said:

Well you definently need a players auction and a handicapped tournament will be great for the local players, since there is not a local tournament that is handicapped except for Cues. $15 entry fee and the house adding $50 to $100. Wednesday night will be great but your going to have to stop the poker tournament to get more players. If you have it on Friday than you will have to stop that poker tournament as well. You will also have to pass out flyers to make it a ligetimate tournament for all of Atlanta. Just not the local Pool Room players.

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I think that the house adding $50 to $100 is cheap, especially if $15 entry with 16 players (you didn't say maximum allowed) would be $225 and 50% at least should be added. Adding less than 50% and not being right with handicaps will not draw the best players, and the tournament will relegate itself to being a tournament that doesn't pay much, and geared towards the 'lower to middle' players. I understand that participation is a factor, and lessor players get tired of donating to the pot, but that is their 'station' in Pool since they have not put the time and effort in their game that better players have. We have a Pool room here that ALWAYS matches the pot, so 200% is paid out, and given a choice, the smart players will play for a 200% payback rather than a 100-125% payback. Directors of tournaments do not realize
the extent that some Pool players use tournament money to help subsidize
their financial position in life, more so than they think. Many players think of
a tournament as only being fun when they pay well.

MikeJanis said:

Angelo, just for the record. IMO, handicapped events have destroyed pool in many regions. The Atlanta are, is currently one of the best regions for pool in the US. Please don't contribute to it's demise in the area by running HCP events.

I suggest holding open events that anyone can play in or only restricting them to non-pro or no top players allowed events with low entry fees.

HCP events always, ALWAYS lead to players being discouraged because they may feel the HCPs are wrong. It also promotes sandbagging.

Open events encourage players to play their best and to try harder which leads to wanting to play more. This is better for tournaments, players and pool room owners.

If I can help you in any way please don't hesitate to call me.

Respectfully,

Mj

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Well personally with me being from the area and have played in many of the regional tour stops, I will have to disagree with it destroying this region. Im not arguing with you about what happened in New York because I dont know, but I do believe you. Now as far as Atlanta and the Southeast region goes there has been plenty of big handicapped tournaments that have been big and never have effected the tour stops. I started playing in Tommy's tour about 3 years ago when there were big handicapped tournaments going on at that time, and those stops got more players than some of the recent ones have. Exception the Viking Tour.

Its just that The Pool Room hasnt ever held a handicapped tournament before. I know every local player there from the d players to the a players and to be honest with you there is not many local players that play in the weekly open tournaments, that The Pool Room holds, that play in regional tours. Since Ive started playing regional tours, they have always been made up of the same traveling A players from the same states.

I personally know many d and c players that currently play in the local open tournaments and they get fed up with them. Many of them are my friends. They have no shot at winning and Ive seen a bunch of d players play that tournament every week just to improve their skill and it does nothing for them. So how is giving lower rated players a chance to actually win some money and have the thrill they've never had before bad? These players dont play in regional tours. If the player is truly a pool player and loves the game he or she wouldnt stop playing regional tours. Anyways, there is hardly any tours that come through Atlanta anymore. The Viking Tour was huge and a great event but SE Open's have dissapeared and the Viking comes through maybe 1 or 2 twice a year. The Fury tour in my opinion is a bust. How is it

With Respect,

Sammy Williams

Snapshot9 said:

I think that the house adding $50 to $100 is cheap, especially if $15 entry with 16 players (you didn't say maximum allowed) would be $225 and 50% at least should be added. Adding less than 50% and not being right with handicaps will not draw the best players, and the tournament will relegate itself to being a tournament that doesn't pay much, and geared towards the 'lower to middle' players. I understand that participation is a factor, and lessor players get tired of donating to the pot, but that is their 'station' in Pool since they have not put the time and effort in their game that better players have. We have a Pool room here that ALWAYS matches the pot, so 200% is paid out, and given a choice, the smart players will play for a 200% payback rather than a 100-125% payback. Directors of tournaments do not realize
the extent that some Pool players use tournament money to help subsidize
their financial position in life, more so than they think. Many players think of
a tournament as only being fun when they pay well.

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Oh definently know what your saying Scott. The reason for adding just a small amount is to get it kicked off good. The Pool Room already had 3 more healthy sized tournaments every week for the players who would like to boost their income or get some extra money.

Please do not HCp an event !!!

With that said, here are a few solutions to help maintain and grow a weekly event without using HCP's.

Sharkeyes said:

a lot of lower leveled players feel that it is very unfair for 2 or 3 players to consistently win week after week. Since its mainly the average players that make up the field for these tournaments.
For example, the Pool Room in Marietta used to run a even-race 9ball tournament every monday night but over time you could start to see the decline in participants and those who dropped out of the competition had the same reasons: "I can't play even with that guy! They're just robbing this tournament for $100+ every week!"

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To help combat this you can have the winner of the event sit out 1 week or even 1 month. Anything along those lines is acceptable. This can also be done with the players that finish 1st-4th. Exampls: 1st place sits out 4 weeks, 2nd sits out 3 weeks, 3rd sits out 2 weeks, 4th sits out 1 week.

Another way or in addition to the above you could simply not allow any PRO or TOP players into the event.

Sharkeyes said:

Since then, they switched the tournament to even-race 8-ball which makes it slightly fairer.

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Shorter races !!! If you want to give players a great chance at a coin flip just as a 100% true HCP event would be. Have a very short race for your event. Race to 1 or 2.
We used to have an event here in the Cleveland area every Sunday night. It was a $10 entry fee, race to 2, 9-ball tourney. We consistantly had over 100 players every week. The only reason it stopped is because the place closed.

In addition to the above mentioned, there are many things than can make a tournament better without HCPing the events.

#1. Have a knowledge of your players. From the caibur of players you are talking about they don't seem to be die hard pool players. They appear to be people that love to play pool and have a good time (league type players).

#2. Cater to your players expectations. Let them have FUN while playing pool and give them a reason to stay and come back week after week.

This can be accomplished in many ways. Here are some more suggestions.
Actually they are more than suggestions, they should be required during the type of event you are talking about.

Please make sure to do some or all of these every week as part of your event.

BREAK CONTEST - $5 for 3 breaks, highest ball count wins, scratches = 0, 9 on break = 2pts, other balls = 1pt. At the end of the night the player with the most balls gets the dough. Players can try it as many times each night as they want. I also suggest that the racker or house gets $1 from every $5 put in. It will help pay for the cloth and the racker.

BREAK and RUN CONTEST - Take $1 or $2 from the entry fee and put it in a side pot and let it accumulate each week. Then at the beginning of every event randomly draw 2 players that wiil get a chance that week to try to Break and run-out. The first person to do it gets the dough. I have seen these pots get to over $5,000. This is always a good draw for events.

RAFFLES - Get a pool stick to raffle off. Something good like a VIKING ! Sell tickets each week and when you get enough to cover the cost of the cue + a little profit raffle it off.

MONTHLY CHAMPIONSHIP EVENT - !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This has always worked well for me.
Each month have an event for the players that played at least 3 times the last month. THOSE PLAYERS ONLY !!!!!
Make this a $$$$ ADDED event. It will increase your weekly participation and give your players a reason to be at your event each week.


ANYONE CAN RUN A TOURNAMENT ! A MONKEY COULD RUN THE CHART AND DO THE DRAW but it takes someone with skill, commitment and ambition to run a good tournament.

OK folks, that's the end of the TOURNAMENT DIRECTORS CLASS for today. Please send your payment to:

Mike Janis
POB 111135
Cleveland, OH 44111


Respectfully,

Mj

P.S. If for some reason you still feel a need to run handicapped events please call Dickie Cappoto, he is the owner of CAP's CUE CLUB in Syracuse, NY. Dicky has one of the absolute best systems I have ever seen for running HCP events. (However, I'm sure he will even tell you that nothing is flawless and the players still complain every week.) The phone # at Cap's is 315-701-0101. I HOPE YOU DON'T CALL !

gelo...you got my vote........

da' 6

Sharkeyes said:

I have yet to see reasons why this idea would fail badly.

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I don't think it will fail either. What I am saying is it will help to destroy open events in your area. Here is a scenario of how and why.

The pool room starts doing HCP events on Fridays and they become successfull then they start doing them on another day with the same success. The other locations in the area try to compete and start doing HCP events in their rooms. Then all of a sudden it seems that most events in your area are doing them. At the same time this trend is booming the participation in open events dwindles down, then they start to die out.

Then the next time the pool room wants to do a larger open event nobody wants to play because they don't want to try and compete with better players.
Now the pool room owner is discouraged with open events and doesn't want to hold them anymore and neither will anyone else in the area.

Hence, the demise of open events and larger money added events in your region.

I can hear the story now..... LET'S JUMP 5 YEARS INTO THE FUTURE.

Yeah, I remember when pool used to be good around here in ATLANTA.
There were plenty of good tournaments and many with big money added but then they started doing these HCP events.................

It's the same old story. I've heard and even witnessed it several times.

Right now, pool is awesome in your region ! Please try to capitalize on it by hosting better or more interesting styles of events. NOT by having handicapped events. It's an extremely great possibillity that pool will get even better in your region in the future if you follow the lessons learned from other areas.

Mj