---After much deliberation I have decided to post this thread. I fully expect to get flamed for it. However I believe the members of the billiards community should be made aware of my experience with Bob Griffin.
---I want to state first that Bob and I had very cordial relationship going until the last email I received from him. We talked many times on the phone and via email about the projects at hand as well as many other topics. There were at times some long gaps in communication.
---I am fully aware of his health issues and was not looking for my cues to be finished quickly. So I made allowances for the amount of time he was taking. I still wish him the best in getting control of his health as nobody should have to go through what he has and possibly still is.
---In 04 I sent Bob a National cue to convert. He had a lot of good ideas and I gave him his lead to build the cue. A deposit was sent. I got several updates saying things were going well. In March of 05 he apparently had the entire cue assembled and it was ready to be turned. At this point he discovers a problem with the points and the veneers. He tells me the indexing is off on the points. His inlays in the sleeve and points are not lining up. And that the points were 18 degrees out. He offered to send the cue back to me for inspection and to send me pics. He did neither. I suggested saving the handle and sleeve sections and replacing the forearm. He seemed to turn a deaf ear to the idea. The cue is toast by 3/11/05.
---In a phone conversation Bob tells me he has managed to recover a large portion of the materials and he would prefer not to ship the remains of the cue to me.
---I took all of this at face value at the time. I am well aware that converting cues can be problematical and told him so. I told him that I understood that some times things go awry. Taking Bobs word as gospel I offered him another shot at a second cue. I had a Titlist that had been disassemble and was ready to go and an old BBC Berger cue. We also discuss my original deposit of which I was not willing to give up.
---On 3-16-05 I ship both cues to him. He selects the BBC cue. We go over the details of the new project. One of which was to specifically leave the cue full spliced at all possible costs. I send him the specs I want the cue built to. To my knowledge the cue sits for quite a while untouched.
---This latest cue was to be relatively simple. Bob had thrown in a black center cut lizard wrap and was allowing another 100.00 in labor and materials for free due to the problems with the National cue. It was to have a Hoppe ring and an ebony sleeve. There was the possibility of some other ornamentation as well. I had also agreed to use the 3 shafts that were to come with the National conversion. I was only loosing 100 on my original deposit. I felt that was a fair deal.
---Jan 18-06 I asked Bob to ship the cues back to me as I believed that between his heath probs and backlog I didn't think he will be able to get to the conversion any time soon. He then convinced me not give up on him and to let him convert the cue. I begin discussing some possible ornamentation for the cue. Bob thinks I am changing the specs and says he has had to stop multiple times. He never indicated he was working on the cue. In one communication it appears he has cut the forearm off the butt. This turned out not to be the case.
---I once again clarify exactly what I want. And explain to him that his typing style, lack of proper grammar and punctuation at time make interpreting his emails difficult. The above occurs between Feb and March of 06 During this time I ask for pics of the cue. I never receive any. On feb 26-06 he says want s to get rolling on the cue as he has 2 other conversion going. He states he will be finished in 3 months.
---8-4-06 I hear hear from him. His health has prevented him from working on the cues for 4 months. He states his son is working on it.
---On or about 11-17-06 I get word from another party that due to health issues he may have closed his shop and I send out an inquiry and ask him to ship my cue back to me if this is the case. On 11-19-06 I receive a blistering response, with a promise that my property would be returned. It never was.
---That was my last communication.
---I would also like to state that in between this span of time Bob did a great restoration on a Scruggs Hustler cue and sold me a nicely crafted ziricote cue for a reasonable price. So my experience was not totally negative and were some of the reasons I stuck with him.
---I have made many overtures to Mr. Griffin by phone, email and PM. The most recent was last week. I have received no responses. I am not quite sure what has occurred. When taking into consideration the fact that he has serious health problems it was not unreasonable for me to conclude that it was a possibility he had to close his business. Jim Ward has done so for that very same reason.
---I have since discovered that Bob and our mutual friend had had a falling out. I have never inquired as to what occurred and to this date do not know. I get the distinct impression that I have been somehow drawn into something not of my making and am being punished for it.
---On the National cue, I have since made several inquires about what was described to me. I can neither confirm or deny that the cue actually had the problems as described to me. However I will give Bob the benefit of the doubt that something was amiss. However based on the information I have received since, I also believe that there may have been builder error involved as well.
---Unless I have grossly misinterpreted what was described to me I believe the problems with the forearm should have been noticeable if there had been a few passes made in the lathe to clean it up prior to it being mounted on the new handle. Points being 18 degrees out as stated on the email I reviewed should be noticeable to the naked eye. However I am willing to be corrected on this point.
---The cue building industry depends on a trusting and honest relationship with its customer base. We as customers are sending out cues and money to the craftsman with out so much as a contract. In todays day and age that requires an extreme amount of confidence in the individuals we are dealing with. Mr. Griffin has breached the trust of his client base. This should be a concern to everybody involved in the industry. Without our trust you don't have a business.
---Saying I am rather incensed about this situation would be an understatement. I have done my best not to castigate Bob in this thread and hope he will offer his side of the story. I for one would like an explanation. More over I would like to have my property and deposit back. Or the completed product so that we may finish out business.
---At the end of the day. Not matter what opinions are expressed on this thread I still have been unjustly wronged. I have lost time, money and cues dealing with Bob and I have not been offered and explanation as to why. I have dealt in good faith and I believe have made far more allowances than most would.
---Unless and until a suitable explanation is provided by Mr. Griffin and I receive that which is rightfully mine I would caution any body considering doing business with him to be exceedingly vigilant.
Sev
---I want to state first that Bob and I had very cordial relationship going until the last email I received from him. We talked many times on the phone and via email about the projects at hand as well as many other topics. There were at times some long gaps in communication.
---I am fully aware of his health issues and was not looking for my cues to be finished quickly. So I made allowances for the amount of time he was taking. I still wish him the best in getting control of his health as nobody should have to go through what he has and possibly still is.
---In 04 I sent Bob a National cue to convert. He had a lot of good ideas and I gave him his lead to build the cue. A deposit was sent. I got several updates saying things were going well. In March of 05 he apparently had the entire cue assembled and it was ready to be turned. At this point he discovers a problem with the points and the veneers. He tells me the indexing is off on the points. His inlays in the sleeve and points are not lining up. And that the points were 18 degrees out. He offered to send the cue back to me for inspection and to send me pics. He did neither. I suggested saving the handle and sleeve sections and replacing the forearm. He seemed to turn a deaf ear to the idea. The cue is toast by 3/11/05.
---In a phone conversation Bob tells me he has managed to recover a large portion of the materials and he would prefer not to ship the remains of the cue to me.
---I took all of this at face value at the time. I am well aware that converting cues can be problematical and told him so. I told him that I understood that some times things go awry. Taking Bobs word as gospel I offered him another shot at a second cue. I had a Titlist that had been disassemble and was ready to go and an old BBC Berger cue. We also discuss my original deposit of which I was not willing to give up.
---On 3-16-05 I ship both cues to him. He selects the BBC cue. We go over the details of the new project. One of which was to specifically leave the cue full spliced at all possible costs. I send him the specs I want the cue built to. To my knowledge the cue sits for quite a while untouched.
---This latest cue was to be relatively simple. Bob had thrown in a black center cut lizard wrap and was allowing another 100.00 in labor and materials for free due to the problems with the National cue. It was to have a Hoppe ring and an ebony sleeve. There was the possibility of some other ornamentation as well. I had also agreed to use the 3 shafts that were to come with the National conversion. I was only loosing 100 on my original deposit. I felt that was a fair deal.
---Jan 18-06 I asked Bob to ship the cues back to me as I believed that between his heath probs and backlog I didn't think he will be able to get to the conversion any time soon. He then convinced me not give up on him and to let him convert the cue. I begin discussing some possible ornamentation for the cue. Bob thinks I am changing the specs and says he has had to stop multiple times. He never indicated he was working on the cue. In one communication it appears he has cut the forearm off the butt. This turned out not to be the case.
---I once again clarify exactly what I want. And explain to him that his typing style, lack of proper grammar and punctuation at time make interpreting his emails difficult. The above occurs between Feb and March of 06 During this time I ask for pics of the cue. I never receive any. On feb 26-06 he says want s to get rolling on the cue as he has 2 other conversion going. He states he will be finished in 3 months.
---8-4-06 I hear hear from him. His health has prevented him from working on the cues for 4 months. He states his son is working on it.
---On or about 11-17-06 I get word from another party that due to health issues he may have closed his shop and I send out an inquiry and ask him to ship my cue back to me if this is the case. On 11-19-06 I receive a blistering response, with a promise that my property would be returned. It never was.
---That was my last communication.
---I would also like to state that in between this span of time Bob did a great restoration on a Scruggs Hustler cue and sold me a nicely crafted ziricote cue for a reasonable price. So my experience was not totally negative and were some of the reasons I stuck with him.
---I have made many overtures to Mr. Griffin by phone, email and PM. The most recent was last week. I have received no responses. I am not quite sure what has occurred. When taking into consideration the fact that he has serious health problems it was not unreasonable for me to conclude that it was a possibility he had to close his business. Jim Ward has done so for that very same reason.
---I have since discovered that Bob and our mutual friend had had a falling out. I have never inquired as to what occurred and to this date do not know. I get the distinct impression that I have been somehow drawn into something not of my making and am being punished for it.
---On the National cue, I have since made several inquires about what was described to me. I can neither confirm or deny that the cue actually had the problems as described to me. However I will give Bob the benefit of the doubt that something was amiss. However based on the information I have received since, I also believe that there may have been builder error involved as well.
---Unless I have grossly misinterpreted what was described to me I believe the problems with the forearm should have been noticeable if there had been a few passes made in the lathe to clean it up prior to it being mounted on the new handle. Points being 18 degrees out as stated on the email I reviewed should be noticeable to the naked eye. However I am willing to be corrected on this point.
---The cue building industry depends on a trusting and honest relationship with its customer base. We as customers are sending out cues and money to the craftsman with out so much as a contract. In todays day and age that requires an extreme amount of confidence in the individuals we are dealing with. Mr. Griffin has breached the trust of his client base. This should be a concern to everybody involved in the industry. Without our trust you don't have a business.
---Saying I am rather incensed about this situation would be an understatement. I have done my best not to castigate Bob in this thread and hope he will offer his side of the story. I for one would like an explanation. More over I would like to have my property and deposit back. Or the completed product so that we may finish out business.
---At the end of the day. Not matter what opinions are expressed on this thread I still have been unjustly wronged. I have lost time, money and cues dealing with Bob and I have not been offered and explanation as to why. I have dealt in good faith and I believe have made far more allowances than most would.
---Unless and until a suitable explanation is provided by Mr. Griffin and I receive that which is rightfully mine I would caution any body considering doing business with him to be exceedingly vigilant.
Sev
