Please Identify... Intresting Unkown... Vintage Custom?

sfmc-x1

sfmc-x1

I Sell Out.
Silver Member
This cue is now for sale!
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=259482





First post...

Hello.

I've owned this cue since 1997, it was recommended as a upgrade from a Meucci I was playing with at the time. I've picked the game back up after an 11 year break, and I'm very interested in knowing my cue's origin. Bought used from another player in San Francisco, CA.

After having the tip replaced, I chatted with the shop-keep, he took an impressed look and believed it may have been an old Tex Zimmerman from Whitehead & Zimmerman Billiard Co. in SF, based on the tip of the joint pin. Apparently those were the one’s Tex used at the time, also assuming the cue originated in the bay area.

What stands out as the most unique feature of the cue is the mated 3/8 joint which he did not recognize. That, and the use of brown phenolic at the joint and butt, and the patina on the wood from play, made for a rough guess that the cue could have been made as early as the 70's. The cue does not have a ornate butt, just the phenolic cap/sleeve. The original bumper fell out some time ago. the hole at the bottom of the cue is tapped 3/8x16. No weight bolt, only a 5mm Allen head screw approx 6" deep inside.

Unknown if it was a Brunswick conversion, the shop-keep thought not, he was certain it was a full splice custom blank. Other details include 11mm tip, 1 1/4" capped ferrule (original?), 7/8' at the joint, 1 1/4" at the butt, 57" long, approx 18oz, brown and white specked linen wrap.

I'm in love with the hit of the cue, and prefer it over many known custom cue makers, and higher end production cue makers. The Joint was cleaned prior to photo's taken for better definition.
 

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additional pic's.

Thanks.

Eric
SF, CA.
 

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Doesn't look that old to me. It's likely not much older than when you got it. The blank looks like a common Valley Supreme do to the longer splice. The lack of hard finish allows smoke, chalk, grime, etc. into the wood to give it that patina. It doesn't take long for that to happen. Nice looking cue, overall. Those old big pin Valley conversions make some awesome players.
 
I agree with both the previous comments. The pin and work at the joint/butt look pretty new, so I don't think it's very old at all. I do think it would be a good player. I also would like some of that phenolic!
 
sfmc-x1 said:
First post...

Hello.

I've owned this cue since 1997, it was recommended as a upgrade from a Meucci I was playing with at the time. I've picked the game back up after an 11 year break, and I'm very interested in knowing my cue's origin. Bought used from another player in San Francisco, CA.

After having the tip replaced, I chatted with the shop-keep, he took an impressed look and believed it may have been an old Tex Zimmerman from Whitehead & Zimmerman Billiard Co. in SF, based on the tip of the joint pin. Apparently those were the one’s Tex used at the time, also assuming the cue originated in the bay area.

What stands out as the most unique feature of the cue is the mated 3/8 joint which he did not recognize. That, and the use of brown phenolic at the joint and butt, and the patina on the wood from play, made for a rough guess that the cue could have been made as early as the 70's. The cue does not have a ornate butt, just the phenolic cap/sleeve. The original bumper fell out some time ago. the hole at the bottom of the cue is tapped 3/8x16. No weight bolt, only a 5mm Allen head screw approx 6" deep inside.

Unknown if it was a Brunswick conversion, the shop-keep thought not, he was certain it was a full splice custom blank. Other details include 11mm tip, 1 1/4" capped ferrule (original?), 7/8' at the joint, 1 1/4" at the butt, 57" long, approx 18oz, brown and white specked linen wrap.

I'm in love with the hit of the cue, and prefer it over many known custom cue makers, and higher end production cue makers. The Joint was cleaned prior to photo's taken for better definition.
Click to expand...


The only thing that looks old to me on the cue is the Phenolic, which I wish I had some of right now. The pin is a standard 3/8-10 pin you could by from Prather today, the linen used for wrap is common and still used, in fact I have a 1 lb roll of it on hand. The construction techniques are also still used and have been commonly used for many years, the only one I am not familar with is the way the joint is piloted which I have never seen before.

The reason the wood looks old is because it has no finish and it has picked up allot of dirt, chalk dust, and oil from your hands, it appears that the phenolic at the joint and the butt cap have been cleaned up.

Can you provide a photo of the cues bumper and weight bolt?

JIMO
 
qbilder said:
Doesn't look that old to me. It's likely not much older than when you got it. The blank looks like a common Valley Supreme do to the longer splice. The lack of hard finish allows smoke, chalk, grime, etc. into the wood to give it that patina. It doesn't take long for that to happen. Nice looking cue, overall. Those old big pin Valley conversions make some awesome players.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't rule out the cue being a Valley either. As for grime/lack of finish you may have a strong point. The cue is very pourous. Possibly from the maker removing the original finish to remove the logo. If it is a Valley.

manwon said:
The only thing that looks old to me on the cue is the Phenolic, which I wish I had some of right now. The pin is a standard 3/8-10 pin you could by from Prather today, the linen used for wrap is common and still used, in fact I have a 1 lb roll of it on hand. The construction techniques are also still used and have been commonly used for many years, the only one I am not familar with is the way the joint is piloted which I have never seen before.
The reason the wood looks old is because it has no finish and it has picked up allot of dirt, chalk dust, and oil from your hands, it appears that the phenolic at the joint and the butt cap have been cleaned up.

Can you provide a photo of the cues bumper and weight bolt?

JIMO
Click to expand...

Correct. I did a once over on the cue with a wet sponge and a dry rag, attention focused on the joint and butt. Cleaner than ever before since I've owned it. The pictures do the cue too much justice, and its a lot darker in real life, which is the reason I was suspecting an old Brunswick/Tru-Balance? A search into the archives looking for mated or stepped joints, conversions, brown fabric phenolic, etc, revealed little to nothing. I believe Harris, Blevins, Schuller all used 3/8x10 phenolic joints... But I'm certain they we're all flat faced.

The bumper fell off a few seasons ago leaving the portion of rubber that threaded inside behind. "No weight bolt". Underneath it all is a 5mm allen head bolt about 6 or 7" deep inside the butt of the cue. The bumper, if it means anything... bottom was shaped like like a Meucci, but the threaded portion was just smaller than a Joss. 3/8" check the description.





Pool Hall Paul said:
there is a good possibility that is an Alex Brick cue.

Pool hall Paul.
Click to expand...

Putting a name to the cue is whats important to me. Thanks for the responses so far.
 
Lexicologist71 said:
It isn't a Ray Schuler. I've played with his cues since 91 and own 4 of them now. Schuller, I don't know.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected.

Interesting joint design.

If anything, its got to be the signature of the maker.

I really would like to find out.

Thanks for the responses so far.
 
I could be way off here but it could possibly be an OLD Lambros hustler cue. He was always anal about piloted joints in his cues and this got me to thinking that maybe.....
Problem is, everyone who took wood shop in high school has tried making cues and they all did house cue conversions in the beginning. Chances are, unless you happen to get lucky, you'll never know for sure who made it.
 
cuesmith said:
I could be way off here but it could possibly be an OLD Lambros hustler cue. He was always anal about piloted joints in his cues and this got me to thinking that maybe.....
Problem is, everyone who took wood shop in high school has tried making cues and they all did house cue conversions in the beginning. Chances are, unless you happen to get lucky, you'll never know for sure who made it.
Click to expand...


Some kid in wood shop... that's an interesting thought.


I've never seen a pre-ultra joint Lambros cue. If fancy, intricate, or obscure piloted joints are his thing does anyone have a pic to reference?
 
Another distinguishing feature of this cue is no butt sleeve. The wrap area was extended all the way down to what is basically an extended butt cap. Could be the hallmark of a particular maker, or could be that the original owner wanted it made that way...
 
This cue without a doubt is an early Guido Orlandi cue. I know this because I own one and have seen multiple cues of his with that exact joint and solid phenolic butt cap configuration.
 
Just for reference Guido Orlandi is a cue repair guy that has been around for years at the BCA tournament in Vegas and I'm sure many other tournaments.
 
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