Resolute or Nelsonite ?????

WheatCues

Banned
I have been hearing alot of pros and cons about both of these popular stabilizers and would like some firsthand feedback from fellow cuemakers that use either of these or what they prefer "if any" and especially thier opinions on these 2 products in particular...

My reasoning behind my questioning regarding this topic is because I want to hear the dangers, side effects and possible problems these solutions could cause to the clear coats and myself from long term direct exposure as well as the reliablilty of the products....

All feedback is greatly appreciated !!!




- Eddie Wheat
 
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WheatCues said:
I have been hearing alot of pros and cons about both of these popular stabilizers and would like some firsthand feedback from fellow cuemakers that use either of these or what they prefer "if any" and especially thier opinions on these 2 products in particular...

My reasoning behind my questioning regarding this topic is because I want to hear the dangers, side effects and possible problems these solutions could cause to the clear coats and myself from long term direct exposure as well as the reliablilty of the products....

All feedback is greatly appreciated !!!




- Eddie Wheat

Eddie, I personally do not use any stabilizer for the wood I buy. Stabilizers in my opinion are used to give wood some form of stability during the construction process. But, in reality I would rather have any problems or movment occur if they are going to happen while it is under my control. I would rather have any problems occur during the curing and building process, than to have them occur later when the cue is in the hands of the customer.

Eddie, I am not certain that wood stabilizers have a permanent effect on wood. Since even finished cues breath, I suspect that stabilizers will evaporate with time. If this is correct, as this happens whatever protective properties the stabilizer had on the wood in a cue will also disappear.

I think that by not using a wood stabilizer you will have a more consistent product, because the wood will naturally be exposed and move the way it will. If the proper techniques are used in handling the wood used to build cues, and this wood is exposed to normal environmental stresses you will have a more stable product when the cue go's to the customer.
 
manwon said:
Eddie, I personally do not use any stabilizer for the wood I buy. Stabilizers in my opinion are used to give wood some form of stability during the construction process. But, in reality I would rather have any problems or movment occur if they are going to happen while it is under my control. I would rather have any problems occur during the curing and building process, than to have them occur later when the cue is in the hands of the customer.

Eddie, I am not certain that wood stabilizers have a permanent effect on wood. Since even finished cues breath, I suspect that stabilizers will evaporate with time. If this is correct, as this happens whatever protective properties the stabilizer had on the wood in a cue will also disappear.

I think that by not using a wood stabilizer you will have a more consistent product, because the wood will naturally be exposed and move the way it will. If the proper techniques are used in handling the wood used to build cues, and this wood is exposed to normal environmental stresses you will have a more stable product when the cue go's to the customer.

great post. i dont use stabilizers either. i also am lucky to have a wood supplier in my same state about 30 mins away. i think thats a big deal bc that wood has been sitting in my climate already for a period of time
 
Joe Barringer uses these stabilizers extensively, so you might give him a call to discuss. In general though, he doesn't like to have "how to" type conversations with anyone who hasn't bought something from him. If you haven't been a customer of his, you might consider a purchase to accompany the conversation, but I'm sure that he has valuable input on the topic.
Mr H
 
It is my understanding that stabilizers are used to displace moisture.
It penetrates the wood driving out the water and drying to a crystline substance that keeps moisture from getting back in.

I have used Nelsonite and really have not had enough time to say if it works or not.
Some say it does and some say otherwise.

I have shafts I made over 7 years ago that are still straight with and without Nelsonite.
If you do choose to use it get a PVC tube and pull a vacuum to get the air out of the wood and allow the Nelsonite to replace it when you let off the vacuum.
It only takes seconds with this method and the penetration is superior to just soaking.
 
Impressive !

Thank you all for the info.

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond and sharing your knowledge and experience with this topic !!




- Eddie Wheat
 
Neither product totally stops moisture penetration. They fill the pores of the wood and slow down how fast and how much moisture the wood can take in or release. This helps stop the wood from moving when exposed to sudden climate changes, which is a shafts worst enemy. Nelsonite has higher solid content which should make it work just a little better, but very little, but Resolute has less of the bad smell. Both are bad for you. I got my hand soaked in Resolute by accident and urinated blood that night. So they need to be handled with caution and use a resprirator as the fumes though not as bad as many other chemicals are still bad for you. Always use rubber gloves when handling anything that is wet with the chemicals and avoid breathing the sanding or turning dust from treated pieces. At present I am using Resolute for some shafts and snakewood and such.
 
cueman said:
Both are bad for you. I got my hand soaked in Resolute by accident and urinated blood that night.
Holy Crap!!! I'm glad I've been using the blue nitrile gloves to handle the stuff. I know that it's not good to get skin contact, but geesh, There should be a blatent warning about that side affect printed in flourescent orange on the can.
Thanks for that heads-up Chris, hope all is well within....
Dave
 
Eddie I stopped using nelsonite a about 10 years ago because after about a year it starts bleeding out of the shaft and makes it sticky and you can sand it off with a fine sandpaper but it comes right back in about a week or so. thanks gary
 
winners07 said:
Eddie I stopped using nelsonite a about 10 years ago because after about a year it starts bleeding out of the shaft and makes it sticky and you can sand it off with a fine sandpaper but it comes right back in about a week or so. thanks gary


Thanks...

In my personal experience with nelsonite... it seems no matter how long it sits, as soon as you sand it, the smell is unbearable !!!

It's really quite nauseating....




- Eddie
 
I have not used resolute, but have used nelsonite a lot. Of all testing & using I have done, I cannot find any proof that it keeps shafts straight. In fact, I have found over the years that it's certain characteristics in the wood that is most or maybe even completely responsible for warpage. I can't find any climatic causes of warpage, except that sudden climate change can trigger movement if it's already prone. I could be totally wrong, don't know for sure yet. But it's what i'm seeing so far. This shaft stuff is tricky & is a science all it's own. But one thing for certain, I can't find any evidence of nelsonite doing any good in my cues.
 
qbilder said:
I have not used resolute, but have used nelsonite a lot. Of all testing & using I have done, I cannot find any proof that it keeps shafts straight. In fact, I have found over the years that it's certain characteristics in the wood that is most or maybe even completely responsible for warpage. I can't find any climatic causes of warpage, except that sudden climate change can trigger movement if it's already prone. I could be totally wrong, don't know for sure yet. But it's what i'm seeing so far. This shaft stuff is tricky & is a science all it's own. But one thing for certain, I can't find any evidence of nelsonite doing any good in my cues.
It displaces the water close to the outside of the wood.
Therefore it makes the wood less prone to sudden release and absorption of water.
Certainly one can make his own sauce that does close to what nelsonite does without being so dangerous to health.

Nothing beats time and prep of course.
 
I guess This isn't a good time to ask if anyone wants to buy 5 gallons of nelsonite:p :thumbup:

I have had a pail of that stuff I paid around 75 bucks for years ago to use on shafts, and It's still untouched. I bought It because everyone seemed to think It was a must have back then.
 
Cue Crazy said:
I guess This isn't a good time to ask if anyone wants to buy 5 gallons of nelsonite:p :thumbup:

I have had a pail of that stuff I paid around 75 bucks for years ago to use on shafts, and It's still untouched. I bought It because everyone seemed to think It was a must have back then.
Donate it to our military.
Have it dropped against the Talibans.:grin:
 
JoeyInCali said:
Donate it to our military.
Have it dropped against the Talibans.:grin:



LOL, I'll cut It with some of that Dupont, should knock their socks off:D
 
JoeyInCali said:
It displaces the water close to the outside of the wood.
Therefore it makes the wood less prone to sudden release and absorption of water.
Certainly one can make his own sauce that does close to what nelsonite does without being so dangerous to health.

Nothing beats time and prep of course.

You mean like sealing the shaft before ploishing???? :)
 
Hello to all...

Like anything in cue building, everything we use is toxic from the wood, glues, clear coats and to Nelsonite or Resolute. While I'm not a doctor, I can't see how immersing an arm in either Nelsonite or Resolute would cause blood in ones urination. I would seek medical care. I have, on many occasions either by choice, accident or stupidity immersed my arm in both. Up until a certain point, we'd constantly lose the hooks in the dipping tank. I would see an employee using all sorts of ingenious methods to try and retrieve the hook from the bottom of the tank. Being anal, short tempered and just liking to get things done, I've reached down into the tank with my arm (not recommended). Of course, I immediately washed off by scrubbing. I've never had any reaction to that or one that I know of.

I will say that the fumes of Nelsonite does make me sick and nauseous and has caused headaches. We don't get that feeling from the Resolute. When using the Resolute, we dip wood outside on a beautiful day and leave the wood sit outside until close of business. We then bring the wood inside to sit overnight in a well ventilated room with air filters moving the air. The next day, the wood is taken outside again to air out. It is once again brought inside where it remains for the duration. Now, when we say we're dipping wood, we are dipping 500 to 1,000 shafts at a time! Of course, if you are dipping a few or a dozen these extreme precautions may not necessarily need to be taken. Personal use and methods are best determined by one's own use, common sense and to what extent the product is being used. Of course a quick dipping need not be aired out although it can't hurt.

As the seller for Resolute, our opinion my seem one sided but we'll offer up the following information based on records and not personal preference or opinion. We sell almost 1,000 gallons of Resolute a year which amounts to almost 200 five gallon pails. Our client list reads like a who's who of cue building and we can safely say that a majority of 1st and 2nd tier cue builders are using the product. Other's are still using Nelsonite and don't care to switch. Some of the present Nelsonite users have expressed interest in using Resolute as soon as their Nelsonite supply runs out. When we came out with the Resolute many just purged their Nelsonite supply and went directly for the Resolute.

Some choose to not use anything and other's swear by it. We do. We've experienced cue building in one extreme to the other when residing in Boca Raton, then Vegas and now New Smyrna Beach. All three climates vary greatly and we can safely say that the treatment has definitely helped with stability especially if you are shipping cues into different climates.

We ran some tests when we were in Vegas with Resolute (prior to making it available). We shipped shafts to a friend in Florida and asked him to expose the wood to humidity. Some shafts were treated with Resolute and some were not; other's were just sealed with a wood sealer. Two weeks later he shipped the shafts back. Most shafts moved and some substantially. The Resolute shafts were fine. We did another test where we shipped shafts overnight; let them sit in Florida for two days and overnighted them back to Vegas. Basically the same results. If you want to test the quality and performance of your work, ship it to Vegas or Florida. I'm sure there are many similar climates but those are the ones that were available to us. Oh, and one more observation worthy of mentioning here. When we moved from Boca to Vegas we had about 1,000 purpleheart shafts in various stages. The breakdown was something like 500 squares, 250 dowels and 250 cones or tapered that were treated. When we got to Vegas and started unpacking, we threw out every single purpleheart shaft dowel. The treated cones or tapered ones were fine. The untreated squares were fine.

Resolute and Nelsonite dry to a solid so evaporation over the years in a treated product is non-existent. As far as a sticky or gummy substance bleeding out of the wood, well this is caused by stale or unmixed product. If you care for it and use it frequently, you won't have any problems.

Resolute or Nelsonite, as Chris Hightower has stated, replaces the open pores with a solid which does not allow moisture to escape or penetrate; or at least less moisture escape or penetrate which is the culprit in most woods movement.

As far as not using it and controlling the woods "destiny" while in one's shop may be great, once that product leaves the builder's shop, they no longer retain that 'control' over the finished product. One has to expect that the product (in this case a cue) will be mishandled and abused so any help in protecting the wood is a great benefit. Nelsonite and Resolute both penetrate to the core where other sealing methods do not penetrate as deep.

Resolute, in our experience has definitely helped keep wood and especially shaft wood straighter which allows for a greater majority of usable shaft wood from one's supply. And, we cut and have the supply to prove that. We have noticed that once a shaft is treated, movement is highly unlikely in most instances when properly applied. It also helps in all other aspects of cue building as well, such as: handles, fronts, sealing the end product just before clearing and we even have cue builders using it on elephant ivory.

Here's what we have determined as to who uses Nelsonite and/or Resolute. Many 1st and 2nd tier cue builders have their own shops outside of their homes. To a great extent all these cue builders use either products. Those who tinker, newbie's or part timers, most of which work from their homes, don't want the smell permeating their house choose not to use the product. Not that we have any statistical analysis to make this statement but it comes from years of experience and talking with just about every cue builder out there. Some who have shops in their homes use and like the Resolute because it doesn't smell anywhere near as bad as the Nelsonite.

So, while the majority choose to use either Resolute or Nelsonite fewer choose not to. This is strictly a matter of personal choice or experience.

I hope this helps and our best to all.
 
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