Quitting Winner

D

Drater

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Despite having been playing pool for about 15 years, I'm probably a "B" player at best. I have enough "pool knowledge" to generally know what to shot to take, what pattern to run, etc, but sometimes fail in execution due to lack of regular table-time. RealLife tends to get in the way.

That said, I've played a lot of pool in my time, in a lot of different places, against a lot of different people. Never have I encountered someone that quit winner on me, until this past weekend. In fact, two different individuals, in two different bars, in two different towns.

A buddy and I drove to a neighboring town to gamble with a kid we had come across before. We started out racing to nine for $100 (9 ball, even). I was down two sets (9-4, 9-7), so I double the bet. I lose again 9-3. So I'm down $400 and he asks me to pay up -- I do.

In my mind, we play about even. We might as well just flip coins all night, but at this point he's beating me pretty bad so I ask for a spot. He won't give anything up, so just to get something happening in my court I stipulate 1) no jump cues, and 2) call the 9-ball. He agrees and we get ready to play another set for $200.

At this point my buddy realizes I'm in a losing situation and starts trash talking in an effort to goad my opponent into playing him. After 5 or so minutes of back-n-forth "I'll give you the 7 & 8 for $500/set" and "f-you!" we start what would become our final set for $200, for a potential loss of $600.

I win 9-1. He was obviously rattled, but I had finally settled into the unfamiliar environment and table. My opponent pays up the $200 and quits. Keeping the other $200 for himself. He then suggests that he "lost money too". He goes on to complain that my buddy "got in his head" by talking smack between sets and that he was too rattled to continue playing. I suggested he take 10 minutes, get some fresh air, and come back to finish playing, but he didn't want any part of it.

I admit that my buddy probably took things too far w/ the trash talk, but I just don't see that as an excuse to quit winner. *I* had nothing to do with it and my opponent *let* the trash talk get to him. Pool is a mental game and this kid needs to learn to deal with it. I wasn't playing my best when we started yet I stuck it out despite a $400 deficit.

By no means do I want to come across like a crybaby. I could give a rats ass about $200 and I most definitely had $200 worth of entertainment, but I just don't understand the mentality that quitting winner is a good thing. This kid lost a customer for life.

Two days later I'm at my regular hangout playing races to 7 for $50. Other than the normal activities at the pool hall there were no outside influences. After a few hours, my opponent, who is up 3 sets ($150), decides he's too drunk/tired to continue. He does forfeit the last set (I was up 4-3), but he keeps the hundred bucks.

I don't get it. By now I'm sure it's obvious that I'm a loser yet am willing to donate. Why quit before you break me?
 
Maybe people are tired of beating up on you....and I'd keep your trash talking friend out of the game...
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If your body started to trash talk, was being threatening, or pissed me off I would not play you either. Those things can get out of hand. Now if I was with bunch of friends, hehe.... (just kidding). The kid was right to walk away. You play or quit when you have to or want to.

Of course I don’t gamble for the sake of making money. I do it to sharpen my concentration and add a little excitement.
 
From the sound of it you are not the type I would want to match up with either. Switching games? No jump cues? Call 9 ball? Your buddy yapping away? NO THANKS!:)
 
I definitely would have quit if I sinced there was a possibility of the situation getting out of control. On the other hand it sounds like you were playing both on their turf.
I would be upset if someone started talking smack (threatening comments)to me whether it be the player or his traveling buddy. Just play and let your cue do the talking. Because no matter how you figure it the guy just got sharked. By all means talk it up before getting into the game but once it starts let the cue take over.
On another note you may be making bad games. Unless you are trying to hustle the guy into playing for more money. My suggestion to you is to go back and play the first guy without your buddy. And then see how you come out.
My rule of gentleman gambling is as follows: if I come to play you I will play until you quit or I have lost enough money; whichever comes first.
If you come to play me I have the option to quit anytime I want-win or lose. This is just my thoughts on being 'gentlemanly'.
 
I think quitting winner or loser is a choice the opponent has the right to make, unless an agreement was made before hand (how many sets minimum...etc.)

Will you go to a casino if they only let you walk away when you do not make any money off the house?

Besides, you guys were playing for only a few hundred dollars, he may have something better to do, somewhere to go to, want to just take a break because he was tired, lost interest in playing with you, or may be he really just did not feel comfortable with your buddy around. I do not see why he is obligated to keep playing when he did not want to.
 
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KY BOY said:
I definitely would have quit if I sinced there was a possibility of the situation getting out of control. On the other hand it sounds like you were playing both on their turf.
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Yeah, we were in their house. And we were both acutely aware of that fact. I don't think things got out of control by any means. We never spoke during the sets, stayed in our "corners", and generally left the other alone. It was between sets that the trash talk started up. However I think you (and everyone else thus far) are right... my buddy should have stayed quiet and/or I should have shut him up.

To respond to Harvywallbanger: sure, I was being a jerk by stipulating no jump cues and calling the 9. He pissed in 3 money balls in one set and I was trying to eliminate a bit of the luck factor. I can't control luck during a match, but I saw an opportunity between matches to put the luck in check.

KY BOY said:
My rule of gentleman gambling is as follows: if I come to play you I will play until you quit or I have lost enough money; whichever comes first.
If you come to play me I have the option to quit anytime I want-win or lose. This is just my thoughts on being 'gentlemanly'.
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Which are good rules. I've never encountered someone quitting winner, let alone twice in a weekend. I see the kid's perspective, but then to encounter it again under a very "gentlemanly" match just had me puzzled.
 
X Breaker said:
What is wrong with quitting while you are ahead?
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I don't know that I have an answer. It's honestly not something I've encountered before. The times I've been up and got bored or whatever I just slacked off until things get even and then quit. I'm not suggesting that this makes me a better person or anything, but it's just never occurred to me to quit winner. I've never put any thought into it until this weekend.

X Breaker said:
I do not see why he is obligated to keep playing when he did not want to.
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When you put it like that, I suppose I don't either.
 
Like I said, you should go back and play him again and specify maybe a time period to play or a # of sets to play. I don't like someone to quit on me either. But, if I come to beat up on them then they have the option, IMO, to quit whenever they want. All be it they may undrestimate their ability to win even more money but you know, whatever. If they come to beat up on me I feel I can do what I want.

And playing in a casino is an entirely different story. Besides, you only have the option to go to them wherever they may be. That is not comparable to this situation.

It is obvious to me that the player who quit sensed that you were going to come back on him and wanted to walk away with some dough!
 
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KY BOY said:
Like I said, you should go back and play him again and specify maybe a time period to play or a # of sets to play. I don't like someone to quit on me either. But, if I come to beat up on them then they have the option, IMO, to quit whenever they want. All be it they may undrestimate their ability to win even more money but you know, whatever. If they come to beat up on me I feel I can do what I want.
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I'm unconvinced that it's worth my time to visit again. Win or lose, my buddy and I have probably ruined any chance of having an enjoyable time in the future. :(

KY BOY said:
And playing in a casino is an entirely different story. Besides, you only have the option to go to them wherever they may be. That is not comparable to this situation.
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No joke. Caesars, Atlantic City *loves* when I visit them.

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KY BOY said:
It is obvious to me that the player who quit sensed that you were going to come back on him and wanted to walk away with some dough!
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Well, of course. Like I said before, I think he and I play about even and either could win at any moment. I guess youse guys made me realize that the trash talk hastened his departure.
 
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well the first one, if it'd been me I'd of probably of quit at the start of the talk from your buddy or played one last set and quit. And I don't know if I've ever quit on someone in 20 years unless it was just a time factor and I told them I had to go at a certain time (if that is the case I tell them before I ever start playing). Of course I wouldn't of changed the rules either for someone I didn't know and wasn't friends with.

The other it just sounds like someone was tired of playing and odds are you'll play again so does it really matter?
 
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First off I would not want to be young and feel threatened between matches even in my home room. It take some weathering to keep your mind right while gambling much less while being threatened.

I agree if you quit winner you might loose your customer but some people are not in the business of pool so they do not think they are wrong by quitting and if bets are all payed up then I do not see that as wrong.

If you are down 2 sets and want to change the game there is no reason for the winner to keep playing yor new game even if your buddy is not woofing at him. You said yourself it was an even game and he got lucky some. If you are trying to take out some of the ways he won those sets then he might be thinking it is no longer a good game for him.

If I am playing some cheap sets and I get up then I do not feel obligated to play all night if I have something else to do, now granted I would tell someone I am playing I have to take off at X:XX time but I do not think that is required.

When I loose cash and someone puts it in there pocket then that is their cash. I cannot be assured of a chance to getting a shot at "MY" cash because it is no longer my cash.

I know I have lost some cash back to people in the past who appeared to me they were going to be "Bad Loosers" then I would quit when it got even. I know in those situations it would have the wrong place to quit winner.

If you are a good game for someone and there is something there to win then I think most people would keep on playing. If people start quitting winner you might have to look at each situation to see if something else is common in the situation where you being quit on after getting stuck.

I think you should try the kid some more by yourself

Good Luck
 
I honestly don't understand this mentality. I seen a few of these threads come up and it never makes a whole lot of sense to me. Are you supposed to only quit when you are even or broke?

As far as this kid in the story is concerned, he was up $200, he had just lost a set 9-1 and his opponents friend was sharking him. It sounds like a perfect time to quit.
 
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I have no problems with people trash-talking, I often do it myself, but it all depends on the situation. If there is much $$ on the game, I normally keep quiet and I ask my opponent to do so too if he starts to shark. If he doesn't respect that, I quit after the set, and tell him why.

The best thing to do is to always agree that you will have to play 3 set. Then a break, and you can play more sets if both are willing to.
 
elvicash said:
First off I would not want to be young and feel threatened between matches even in my home room. It take some weathering to keep your mind right while gambling much less while being threatened.
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I never used the word "threatened" and didn't mean to suggest the kid was being threatened. He was being goaded. I'm 5'7 and 120lbs when wet. I'm not about to threaten anyone, esp. in their house! (When I say "kid", I mean "young man in his early 20's")

You're right that some weathering is required. I even told the kid that in 5 years he'd look back and realize that while he was sharked, it was he who allowed himself to be (and to remain) sharked.

I wished then, and I wish now, that the sharking had not happened, but it did and the kid chose to deal with it by quitting. Had he chosen to take a few minutes to collect himself he very well may have earned some more money *and* learned a valuable lesson about pool. Instead, he chose to take his $200.

By this time my buddy was off playing someone else and it was just my opponent and I. We weren't going to be bothered anymore.

elvicash said:
If you are down 2 sets and want to change the game there is no reason for the winner to keep playing yor new game even if your buddy is not woofing at him. You said yourself it was an even game and he got lucky some. If you are trying to take out some of the ways he won those sets then he might be thinking it is no longer a good game for him.
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Fair enough.

elvicash said:
When I loose cash and someone puts it in there pocket then that is their cash. I cannot be assured of a chance to getting a shot at "MY" cash because it is no longer my cash.
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I hear what you're saying, but it's much easier said than done. When I walk into a bar with $XXX and leave with $XXX-200, I've lost. The person that has the $200 won. This point *is* comparable to a casino. You lose $5000 playing blackjack and you know full and well that the casino has *your* money and you want *your* money back! :)

elvicash said:
I know I have lost some cash back to people in the past who appeared to me they were going to be "Bad Loosers" then I would quit when it got even. I know in those situations it would have the wrong place to quit winner.
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Oh sure, we've all been in this situation.

elvicash said:
If you are a good game for someone and there is something there to win then I think most people would keep on playing. If people start quitting winner you might have to look at each situation to see if something else is common in the situation where you being quit on after getting stuck.
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Haha, all I can see common is me! :(
 
Ten years ago quitting winner with no advanced warning was a big No-No.

It would get you labeled as bad action and a nit.

The only times I have ever known to be acceptable to quit winner are...

When both players agree before the contest starts that at such & such time one of the players has to leave.

When both players agree to only play a certain amount of sets for that day.
 
Drater,

I don't really consider either of them exactly "quitting winners". The first guy you changed the bet and he didn't like it anymore. Since he quit after you changed the bet, he quit losers.

The other guy gave you a bonus and walked. He quit ahead but forfeited the last match, which could have easily gone his way too. That one you could have probably set up to be continued the next night. But he gave you three good sets and tried to play a forth. He was probably telling the truth, tired and done.

Not everyone gambles frequently and believes in the same etiquette as you. I hate it when someone thinks they own my future because I'm ahead on them. I'll give them 3 or 4 hours, but after that I'm not into a marathon either.

You should probably consider playing 10 ahead for $200 (and post up the money) or something along those lines. Don't get upset if your opponent wins and walks out with your $200. A match like than can last an hour or all night.

Chris
 
Cameron Smith said:
I honestly don't understand this mentality. I seen a few of these threads come up and it never makes a whole lot of sence to me. Are you supposed to only quit when you are even or broke?
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I can only assume it's like this in other areas, but around here, be it tournaments or action hunting, you see the same players. Word gets out if you quit winner, then soon your action dries up. Just like word gets out if you suck (like me!) -- you get a lot of action.

Cameron Smith said:
As far as this kid in the story is concerned, he was up $200, he had just lost a set 9-1 and his opponents friend was sharking him. It sounds like a perfect time to quit.
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I suppose you're right.
 
Drater said:
Despite having been playing pool for about 15 years, I'm probably a "B" player at best. I have enough "pool knowledge" to generally know what to shot to take, what pattern to run, etc, but sometimes fail in execution due to lack of regular table-time. RealLife tends to get in the way.

That said, I've played a lot of pool in my time, in a lot of different places, against a lot of different people. Never have I encountered someone that quit winner on me, until this past weekend. In fact, two different individuals, in two different bars, in two different towns.

A buddy and I drove to a neighboring town to gamble with a kid we had come across before. We started out racing to nine for $100 (9 ball, even). I was down two sets (9-4, 9-7), so I double the bet. I lose again 9-3. So I'm down $400 and he asks me to pay up -- I do.

In my mind, we play about even. We might as well just flip coins all night, but at this point he's beating me pretty bad so I ask for a spot. He won't give anything up, so just to get something happening in my court I stipulate 1) no jump cues, and 2) call the 9-ball. He agrees and we get ready to play another set for $200.

At this point my buddy realizes I'm in a losing situation and starts trash talking in an effort to goad my opponent into playing him. After 5 or so minutes of back-n-forth "I'll give you the 7 & 8 for $500/set" and "f-you!" we start what would become our final set for $200, for a potential loss of $600.

I win 9-1. He was obviously rattled, but I had finally settled into the unfamiliar environment and table. My opponent pays up the $200 and quits. Keeping the other $200 for himself. He then suggests that he "lost money too". He goes on to complain that my buddy "got in his head" by talking smack between sets and that he was too rattled to continue playing. I suggested he take 10 minutes, get some fresh air, and come back to finish playing, but he didn't want any part of it.

I admit that my buddy probably took things too far w/ the trash talk, but I just don't see that as an excuse to quit winner. *I* had nothing to do with it and my opponent *let* the trash talk get to him. Pool is a mental game and this kid needs to learn to deal with it. I wasn't playing my best when we started yet I stuck it out despite a $400 deficit.

By no means do I want to come across like a crybaby. I could give a rats ass about $200 and I most definitely had $200 worth of entertainment, but I just don't understand the mentality that quitting winner is a good thing. This kid lost a customer for life.

Two days later I'm at my regular hangout playing races to 7 for $50. Other than the normal activities at the pool hall there were no outside influences. After a few hours, my opponent, who is up 3 sets ($150), decides he's too drunk/tired to continue. He does forfeit the last set (I was up 4-3), but he keeps the hundred bucks.

I don't get it. By now I'm sure it's obvious that I'm a loser yet am willing to donate. Why quit before you break me?
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sounds nitty to me
 
TATE said:
I don't really consider either of them exactly "quitting winners". The first guy you changed the bet and he didn't like it anymore. Since he quit after you changed the bet, he quit losers.
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I see what you're saying, however I can assure you that he quit because of the sharking alone. His diatribe after the last set was solely focused on my buddy. It's unfortunate, yes, but after starting this thread I can now see that as a good reason to quit, but he did indeed quit winner.

TATE said:
The other guy gave you a bonus and walked. He quit ahead but forfeited the last match, which could have easily gone his way too. That one you could have probably set up to be continued the next night. But he gave you three good sets and tried to play a forth. He was probably telling the truth, tired and done.
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You're probably right. And as someone suggested upthead, he and I are very likely to play again. It was just the second time in as many days and I was very puzzled.

TATE said:
Not everyone gambles frequently and believes in the same etiquette as you. I hate it when someone thinks they own my future because I'm ahead on them. I'll give them 3 or 4 hours, but after that I'm not into a marathon either.
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It's nice to set those groundrules upfront, however. I suppose in the latter situation that's as much my fault as my opponent's.

TATE said:
You should probably consider playing 10 ahead for $200 (and post up the money) or something along those lines. Don't get upset if your opponent wins and walks out with your $200. A match like than can last an hour or all night.
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Geez, I hope I haven't come off like a "sore loser", because I'm really not. I started this thread in the hopes to get some clarity.

I suppose, in my mind, there's an expectation when playing races that the session goes on until the loser decides otherwise. It's obvious now that that expectation needs to be made clear upfront.
 
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