Safety Play - Where'd it go???

Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think Stu has said it the loudest and has put actions behind his words by spending time with people like myself trying to pass on both the basics and finer points of safety play.

In the 200 point finals between Appleton and Hohmann I was pretty surprised at some of the shots these guys were attempting. I was yelling at the live stream, "Shoot a safety!!!" Of course nobody played safe and in any normal match where the players weren't running on fumes, they would have paid a price for their missed shots.

I guess it is a result of their high confidence in pocketing ability, especially when playing with larger pockets. Maybe they are such good shot makers that the odds are in their favor in almost any situation.
 
Dan, the players today are the best ball-pocketers that ever played pool. You have to respect their choice when they choose offense over defense if the foul situation is even.

I think the bigger issue is how they play the moves game when they choose or are forced to do so. Actually, at the 14.1 event just completed, a few players showed exceptional defensive skills, with Dennis Hatch and Danny Barouty, each of whom reached Stage 3, two notable examples. Most entrants had a very modest command of the deeper points of defensive theory, but that's understandable in the nine ball area. There just aren't many that play competitive 14.1 year round.

I wouldn't bemoan the extent to which today's contingent of players choose offense. They have the skills to back it up.

Best to marvel in the great excellence with which they run balls. These guys are good!
 
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True, Dan. Irving Crane, as much of a champion that he was, was also known in inner circles as Mr. 14 and safe. Crane took very few chances and he would grind his way through a match, running a rack at a time and then playing safe for various reasons. Of course he was fully capable of running 100 and more, which he also did.

I remember refereeing many of the old PPPA championships and got to witness some amazing safety battles between some of the greats.

Ray Martin, my first teacher, always used to stress to me the importance of patience in 14.1 and he was definitely a man who practiced what he preached.
 
I grew up playing straight pool in the early 60's. So my game is more old school when it comes to safety play.
When i play someone who is very good at safes and we trade 10 or so safeties each and finally someone gets a shot I almost always say to my opponent "That was fun".
I like playing safes in straight pool but I hate one pocket and that is a boring safety biased game ?????????????
 
FranCrimi said:
True, Dan. Irving Crane, as much of a champion that he was, was also known in inner circles as Mr. 14 and safe. Crane took very few chances and he would grind his way through a match, running a rack at a time and then playing safe for various reasons. Of course he was fully capable of running 100 and more, which he also did.

I remember refereeing many of the old PPPA championships and got to witness some amazing safety battles between some of the greats.

Ray Martin, my first teacher, always used to stress to me the importance of patience in 14.1 and he was definitely a man who practiced what he preached.
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Too bad there was no recording technology back then like there is today. It would've been nice to have an AccuStats type library from the "Old Masters."
 
Tick Tick Tick

I suspect Irving never had microwave popcorn or maybe not McDonald's either - and that's not a bad thing. He just wasn't part of the "I want it now" generation(s). I think that is part of the difference in the game today.

tap tap tap to someone who exhibits the patience to 14 and safe through a match when they have the ability to drop a hundred.

Darren showed that a 200 point game (didn't use the word race ;) ) can absolutely be a sprint, just not too many people have that staying power. Too many ?! - only 1 has shown it so far...

200 was fantastic and mentally draining I'm sure - I believe a safe battle to be that same challenge. Maybe not to the level that 200 in the World semi-finals is but still mentally taxing.
 
I am guessing the casual pool fan would want to see more offense and less safety play.

The NFL and NBA have adjusted the rules over the years to favor the offense.
I think they figured out that while defense wins championships, offense sells tickets.

The "fans" want to see the players go for the high risk shot.

So, in the interest of growing the sport, I'm in favor of the generous pocket and offensive mentality
 
michael4 said:
I am guessing the casual pool fan would want to see more offense and less safety play.

The NFL and NBA have adjusted the rules over the years to favor the offense.
I think they figured out that while defense wins championships, offense sells tickets.

The "fans" want to see the players go for the high risk shot.

So, in the interest of growing the sport, I'm in favor of the generous pocket and offensive mentality
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I have to disagree. Encouraging offense was already taken care of when 860 Simonis became the standard cloth, which is much faster than the nap cloth. Between that and the switch to modern balls, there's plenty of opportunity for offense. We're talking about the near elimination of safety play, which would be very bad for the game. It isn't 9 ball.

I mean why not create more offense in 1-pocket by changing it to 2-pocket?
 
Let's not forget that Darren's 200 and out was preceded by a safety battle.

Leading 1-0, Francisco gambled and lost on a tricky carom shot off the rack after trading safeties with Daren.
 
sjm said:
Let's not forget that Darren's 200 and out was preceded by a safety battle.

Leading 1-0, Francisco gambled and lost on a tricky carom shot off the rack after trading safeties with Daren.
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I unfortunately missed that match. Was the carom attempt another example of too much offense, or was it his best option?
 
Dan White said:
I unfortunately missed that match. Was the carom attempt another example of too much offense, or was it his best option?
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It was a very aggressive choice, perhaps a shot that was 50/50, but Francisco liked it and that's good enough for me. There were easy safeties available had he opted for a defensive approach.
 
Dan White said:
I think Stu has said it the loudest and has put actions behind his words by spending time with people like myself trying to pass on both the basics and finer points of safety play.

In the 200 point finals between Appleton and Hohmann I was pretty surprised at some of the shots these guys were attempting. I was yelling at the live stream, "Shoot a safety!!!" Of course nobody played safe and in any normal match where the players weren't running on fumes, they would have paid a price for their missed shots.

I guess it is a result of their high confidence in pocketing ability, especially when playing with larger pockets. Maybe they are such good shot makers that the odds are in their favor in almost any situation.
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I also missed that run ! I stated in another thread that I thought the pockets were far to big for the caliber of players ,and I think a tougher table would produce more safe play IMHO
 
Dan White said:
I have to disagree. Encouraging offense was already taken care of when 860 Simonis became standard. Between that and the switch to modern balls, there's plenty of opportunity for offense. We're talking about the near elimination of safety play, which would be very bad for the game.
I mean why not create more offense in 1-pocket by changing it to 2-pocket?
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I think we do agree from a players point of view. I was just wondering about the non-players.

I took my mom to a dodger game once, and the opposing pitcher pitched a "PERFECT" game (super rare, once in a lifetime happening), she was entirely bored because there was no scoring.......... :embarrassed2:

The attention span of teens today is very short, they will change the channel before watching safety play for 5 minutes. (thats the stuff that was on my mind.....)
 
michael4 said:
The attention span of teens today is very short, they will change the channel before watching safety play for 5 minutes. (thats the stuff that was on my mind.....)
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I know what you're saying. I would just rather spend the energy on educating people and showing them the finer points than on dumbing the game down.
 
sjm said:
It was a very aggressive choice, perhaps a shot that was 50/50, but Francisco liked it and that's good enough for me. There were easy safeties available had he opted for a defensive approach.
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I understand your deference. However, I wonder if Francisco would take the same chances next time he plays Appleton.
 
Dan White said:
I understand your deference. However, I wonder if Francisco would take the same chances next time he plays Appleton.
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Perhaps not. There is another side to this coin, Dan. As well as everybody runs balls these days, the stakes are higher in every safety battle.

Fewer safety battles? Yes, but each safety battle is even more crucial now.
 
sjm said:
Let's not forget that Darren's 200 and out was preceded by a safety battle. ...
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More like a skirmish -- just one safety apiece after Bustmante made his opening shot. I agree that Bustamante's carom attempt was "a very aggressive choice."
 
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I heard Bobby Hunter doing commentary on a match about a year ago discussing this. Some shots which used to be automatic safeties today's players either don't see or choose to ignore.
 
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