Custom cuemakers use spliced forearms: either purchased blanks or made in house. Joss made em this way for about 12 years and then go inlaid. Schon spliced them for the first 8 years and then inlays. Ever notice the spliced Joss and Schons are still collectible. Many say the early models plain hit better. Was the purpose of change stictly due to increasing production amounts. Lets face it make a $200 profit per one cue and turn out 1000 yearly. Now turn out 10 thousand and make 200 per cue. Quite some difference. I know either company can and will make a custom cue as per customers request. So the no how is still there. Even a few custom makers have pretty much gone Cnc.The old saying you get what you pay for. Any comments ??
Schon- Joss, spliced forearms ???
- Thread starter hotrod
- Start date
Schon-Joss spliced forearms ???
Dick thanks for the comment. Maybe I should have left out the word collectible. Question is about constuction techinues. Was referencing why the 2 companies would suddenly change a proven performer. Was saying Bushka and Szams never saw the need to change.
Dick thanks for the comment. Maybe I should have left out the word collectible. Question is about constuction techinues. Was referencing why the 2 companies would suddenly change a proven performer. Was saying Bushka and Szams never saw the need to change.
hotrod said:
There's always lots of arguments for both sides of this issue. As far as Balabushka and Szmboti are concerned, both had already departed before CNC had been introduced to cue construction, so, we don't know how they would stand but since Gus was an actual machinist and rather fanatical over precision, I feel he would have jumped on CNC, but, that is just my opinion.
Half and full splice cues have sharp points and can have veneers but, I feel, are more time consuming to build and more difficult maintaining even points and of coarse, can only be made in a triangular design. CNC, flat bottomed points, on the other hand are much more cost efficient as the machine is busy cutting pockets and inlays while the builder can be working on something else. There is much less loss caused by human error when CNC is employed as once the program has been wrote and tested, every piece will be the same size and fit perfectly. CNC type points are always the exact same length and indexed perfectly and can be other shapes other than triangles but they will have radiused points the same size as the cutter that produced the pocket.
All in what you want in a cue, more of a hand made cue with some slight human imperfections or more of a machine produced cue but usually built closer to the blueprint.
Dick
The word collectible is alright but it could easily be substituted with 'desirable'.
CNC as it applies to forearms made the process of doing points light years quicker. Well, in a factory setting, that makes them cheaper to do, hence, greater profits. Time is money. The minutes it takes to do CNC points (in a production setting) is nothing compared to the days it takes to do conventional hand spliced points.
Dick is correct, design options are limited with hand-splice. You can go longer, shorter, wider, thinner and it pays to have a good grasp of color combinations but that's about it. With CNC, you're only limited by your imagination and your programming skills.
CNC has changed cue making. There's no way to deny it. It has given the industry another dimension to the cue building process. Considering that CNC is still in it's infancy, where do you all see it heading? At what point does the CM turn over the reins to his machines?
CNC as it applies to forearms made the process of doing points light years quicker. Well, in a factory setting, that makes them cheaper to do, hence, greater profits. Time is money. The minutes it takes to do CNC points (in a production setting) is nothing compared to the days it takes to do conventional hand spliced points.
Dick is correct, design options are limited with hand-splice. You can go longer, shorter, wider, thinner and it pays to have a good grasp of color combinations but that's about it. With CNC, you're only limited by your imagination and your programming skills.
CNC has changed cue making. There's no way to deny it. It has given the industry another dimension to the cue building process. Considering that CNC is still in it's infancy, where do you all see it heading? At what point does the CM turn over the reins to his machines?
KJ, you can cnc v-points now too.KJ Cues said:
The thing about flat-points/inlays though is you can mill them after the cue has been assembled. Hence much cheaper.
CNC imo does not help in the hit of cues though ( directly ).
So any maker today can make all the fancy cues he wants but if his hit does not get famous, he won't command much price for his cues imho.
I have to agree with Joey on this one for sure. I would rather play with a noce hitting $400 cue rather than a fancy $2000 cue that has a less than desirable hit.
Or you can be like Gina & have both worlds 
I agree that inlayed points does not contribute to playability, don't think they were ever intended to do so, though. Spliced points were intended to offer stability & add spine to the cue, and looking good was nothing more than a pleasant byproduct of genius construction technique. Points look good, whether inlayed or spliced.
I agree that inlayed points does not contribute to playability, don't think they were ever intended to do so, though. Spliced points were intended to offer stability & add spine to the cue, and looking good was nothing more than a pleasant byproduct of genius construction technique. Points look good, whether inlayed or spliced.
Craig Petersen. :smile:qbilder said:Or you can be like Gina & have both worlds
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dave sutton
Banned
i have to disaree with the posters statement. the round point joss cues of the 80's are no where near as collectable/desireable as the sharp point cues of the 1970's. same with the runde era schons and todays schons. fact is there are really a few makers that have great success with cnc/flat bottom points like jw and gina. there are alot of makers that have switched or use that technique that some collectors wont touch. when i collected i would only buy v cut pointed cues. i dont like rounded points or inlays. i dont care how sharp they say you can get them its still not the same. alot of collectors feel the same. while i respect ernie and bill for their legacy their cues just dont appeal to me
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Before I went CNC I got a little bored with putting in v-groove points and diamonds. So I started making patterns from scratch to make other shapes besides diamonds to go with my v-groove points. Then I started making fancy points with a manual inlay machine and at first they sold for double what the v-grove points were selling for. Then CNC got popular and less skilled cuemakers could all of a sudden make just as fancy of floating points and inlays as it took me years to master with a pantograph type machine.
But many of these newer cuemakers never learned v-groove point work so they came back into popularity. But even this can just be another phase. With so many jigs and such being made available they have now become common place in most cue shops. Just like leather wraps. Now that there are fixtures that make leather installation much easier, most shops do leather wraps. So the leather wrap craze is slowing down.
I have seen a recent trend toward people demanding the cues to play well with very little adornment. So this is actually making the upcoming cuemakers have an easier time getting into the low end cue market. What is highly sought after today may not be what is highly sought after later. So who knows what will be desirable or collectible later.
But many of these newer cuemakers never learned v-groove point work so they came back into popularity. But even this can just be another phase. With so many jigs and such being made available they have now become common place in most cue shops. Just like leather wraps. Now that there are fixtures that make leather installation much easier, most shops do leather wraps. So the leather wrap craze is slowing down.
I have seen a recent trend toward people demanding the cues to play well with very little adornment. So this is actually making the upcoming cuemakers have an easier time getting into the low end cue market. What is highly sought after today may not be what is highly sought after later. So who knows what will be desirable or collectible later.