eyeshaft

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ronnietherocket

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has anyone tried the eyeshaft?...

the eyeshafts are BEM shafts that scott frost has been using for a while...

they came in 3 different grades of bem, the company that is making them claims they have almost zero deflection and i'm just curious about them...

http://eyeshafts.com/
 
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Never used the product. I am wary of promises of low or no deflection when ivory ferrules are offered though. That is a lot of weight to put out on the end of a shaft and expect no deflection.
 
becareful..the guy who makes them Dale Teague was prosecuted by the washington state attorneyfor ripping customers off in washington state. he sanded down chinese cheap cues and put his logo on them and sold them ebay.

He also sold cheap plastic as old westinghouse micarta. Many customers were promised cues after paying a deposit and recieved nothing.

Creigh Dumo whom is a well known player in washington state was ripped off thousands of dollars after ordering a custom cue and paying a huge deposit.

Dale moved down to Arizona to avoid jail.
 
mrinsatiable said:
becareful..the guy who makes them Dale Teague was prosecuted by the washington state attorneyfor ripping customers off in washington state. he sanded down chinese cheap cues and put his logo on them and sold them ebay.

He also sold cheap plastic as old westinghouse micarta. Many customers were promised cues after paying a deposit and recieved nothing.

Creigh Dumo whom is a well known player in washington state was ripped off thousands of dollars after ordering a custom cue and paying a huge deposit.

Dale moved down to Arizona to avoid jail.
Click to expand...

He also screwed a certain maker in WA to whom he had promised an apprenticeship. I had considered ordering from him years ago, but never got around to it, and then the news broke about his dishonest activities and he disappeared. When I see his name come up now, I just shudder.

BTW...the maker that got screwed is doing just fine without the apprenticeship...his cues are wildly popular in these parts, so he is kept pretty busy.

Lisa
 
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mrinsatiable said:
becareful..the guy who makes them Dale Teague was prosecuted by the washington state attorneyfor ripping customers off in washington state. he sanded down chinese cheap cues and put his logo on them and sold them ebay.

He also sold cheap plastic as old westinghouse micarta. Many customers were promised cues after paying a deposit and recieved nothing.

Creigh Dumo whom is a well known player in washington state was ripped off thousands of dollars after ordering a custom cue and paying a huge deposit.

Dale moved down to Arizona to avoid jail.
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That's why i ended up not ordering one
 
Does figured maple really play differently than clear maple? Seems it would only be a cosmetic physical issue....don't know tho'. Maybe the laws of physics change in figured wood.
 
sun526 said:
Does figured maple really play differently than clear maple? Seems it would only be a cosmetic physical issue....don't know tho'. Maybe the laws of physics change in figured wood.
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from what i've heard the eyes are caused by a disease in the wood
 
From his website:

"The birdseye shaft is a hard rock maple shaft, it is stabalized with hundreds of very small birdseye going through the natural grain of the wood which adds to the stiffness and the feel."

This one statement shows that he knows almost nothing about wood.

Birds eye is a disease, not a stabilizing agent.

This would be like somebody claiming they are stronger because of cancer tumors in their body.

Cross this guy off your list quickly...
 
Yes, figure in maple whether it be blister, quilt, flame, flitch, birdseye. and especially spalted are diseased maple. Beautiful yes! Stronger no! As I said the laws of physics has to stop working for his claims to be true.
 
Well I have seen the “EYE SHAFT”, and honestly like a friend said you have to ignore the stripes, or sugar spots on the shaft.

I own a shaft with sugar spots on it, and it is butt ugly but plays awesome, and it did take time to get use to the sugar sport, as when I first looked down the shaft when shooting the sugar spots made me think the shaft was warped.

I personally do not think the “EYE” or other special shaft are anything to write home to mom about from the one I have hit with, and also if some pro has put their name behind a shaft are they playing with it for money they make annually for using it, or love of the shaft?
 
Many years ago I was good friends the a sawmill owner.

He commented once that he'd never buy a BE cue, that BE was too brittle. Ive never seen a BE cue break unless slammed across the table in anger and maybe my friend didn't know the full story. But BE for a shaft? Now I'm thinking that's maybeeeee....... not. Sure would be good looking though. My favorite wood.
 
sun526 said:
Yes, figure in maple whether it be blister, quilt, flame, flitch, birdseye. and especially spalted are diseased maple. Beautiful yes! Stronger no! As I said the laws of physics has to stop working for his claims to be true.
Click to expand...

Seriously people, you need to re-think this diseased wood kick that you're on. The only diseased wood from the list presented is spalted, and that's a fungus that invades a weak and dying tree that's too weak to defend itself.

Scientists have been studying the figuring in Maple for many years and not one of them can claim to know what causes it. Each has their own theory but disease is not high on the list of possible causes.

I can just about totally disprove the disease theory just from simple logic. Let's take birdeye for example.
The upper peninsula of Michigan is known as the Birdseye Capital of the world. Most all birdseye Maple is found there and it's surrounding regions, Wisconsin, Northern Michigan, Lower Canada and over to Northern New York area. Diseases are notorious travelers. Why hasn't this 'disease' shown-up elsewhere? Michigan is loaded with Maple yet birdseye is only found up north. If birdseye is a disease, don't you think it would have found it's way to the rest of the state? Birdseye has been around forever. It's had plenty of time to make it's move, but hasn't.

Quilt is the figuring of Big Leaf Maple that is found in our Great Northwest.
Outrageously gorgeous but hardly a disease. Big Leaf is a very healthy tree and grows like a weed. Big Leaf is a soft Maple and barely in the same family as Sugar/Rock Maple. Surprisingly, no birdseye found here.

A flitch has nothing to do with figuring. It's a board that has an outside edge of the tree still intact.

I'd be very cautious of making claims that you can't substantiate. It only exposes your, let's say, weaker side.

Having been a student of wood since I was a kid, I have my own theory about what causes birdseye and in an attempt to protect my weaker side, I'll just leave you with a question and it's answer.

Q). What do all of the regions where birdseye is found have in common?
A). The Great Lakes.

It's not my intent to condemn. It just annoys the hell out of me when people try to pass off mis-information as fact. Unless you're wiser than the scientists that study this stuff, it's only a guess, isn't it?
 
One theory:

Bird's eye maple is usually a sugar maple (Acer saccharum) found in mature hemlock stands. Hemlock dominated forests create unfavorable conditions for other plant competitors by increasing soil pH and consuming a high percentage of available sun light. The swirling grain and "birds eye" features found in bird's eye maple can be attributed to hormonal responses within the maple. In an effort to capture more light during the elongation/ bud breaking period, the maple will desperately produce new shoots. Low soil pH and a sugar deficit within the maple cause the tree to abort the new growth. The aborted new growth leaves tiny knots ("bird's eyes") in the tree which become covered up by the next year's growth ring.
 
Yeah, that's a theory and I'm very glad that you presented it as such.
It's alluding to what I'm trying to present.
However, consider this. Birdseye originates in the heart-wood (the center of the tree) and emanates out to the outer surface. They are not covered-up, they continue to the outside like a beam of light. They start as a 'dot', the size of a pin head. As they progress to the outer surface, they grow in size and form the eye. I have some old-growth birdseye taken from the outer portion of the tree and the eyes are almost the size of dimes. I have some of this in my own cue.

The statement was made about BEM being brittle. I don't know if brittle was the best choice of word but I guess it's close enough. BEM is Sugar Maple. Sugar, being mostly carbon, makes wood 'harder'. It provides a pretty good 'hit'.

Thank You for your input.
 
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Dakota Cues said:
From his website:

"The birdseye shaft is a hard rock maple shaft, it is stabalized with hundreds of very small birdseye going through the natural grain of the wood which adds to the stiffness and the feel."

This one statement shows that he knows almost nothing about wood.

Birds eye is a disease, not a stabilizing agent.

This would be like somebody claiming they are stronger because of cancer tumors in their body.

Cross this guy off your list quickly...
Click to expand...

if the eyes healed more dense like scar tissue on people couldn't that make the shaft stiffer?
 
KJ Cues said:
Seriously people, you need to re-think this diseased wood kick that you're on. The only diseased wood from the list presented is spalted, and that's a fungus that invades a weak and dying tree that's too weak to defend itself.

Scientists have been studying the figuring in Maple for many years and not one of them can claim to know what causes it. Each has their own theory but disease is not high on the list of possible causes.

I can just about totally disprove the disease theory just from simple logic. Let's take birdeye for example.
The upper peninsula of Michigan is known as the Birdseye Capital of the world. Most all birdseye Maple is found there and it's surrounding regions, Wisconsin, Northern Michigan, Lower Canada and over to Northern New York area. Diseases are notorious travelers. Why hasn't this 'disease' shown-up elsewhere? Michigan is loaded with Maple yet birdseye is only found up north. If birdseye is a disease, don't you think it would have found it's way to the rest of the state? Birdseye has been around forever. It's had plenty of time to make it's move, but hasn't.

Quilt is the figuring of Big Leaf Maple that is found in our Great Northwest.
Outrageously gorgeous but hardly a disease. Big Leaf is a very healthy tree and grows like a weed. Big Leaf is a soft Maple and barely in the same family as Sugar/Rock Maple. Surprisingly, no birdseye found here.

A flitch has nothing to do with figuring. It's a board that has an outside edge of the tree still intact.

I'd be very cautious of making claims that you can't substantiate. It only exposes your, let's say, weaker side.

Having been a student of wood since I was a kid, I have my own theory about what causes birdseye and in an attempt to protect my weaker side, I'll just leave you with a question and it's answer.

Q). What do all of the regions where birdseye is found have in common?
A). The Great Lakes.

It's not my intent to condemn. It just annoys the hell out of me when people try to pass off mis-information as fact. Unless you're wiser than the scientists that study this stuff, it's only a guess, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Ok, I am not getting into a pissing match here. So here goes. The disease question HAS NOT been disproven either. When scientist finally do, then I will concede the matter, but in the books I have read and from my experience in working with it. I am not ready to give in. I live in southwest Ohio and can find quilt, flame and birdseye in trees in my area as well as in Kentucky.
Also in several circles of luthiers and wood workers "flitch" is used to describe the way figure seems to move in flamed(culry)maple. I am well aware of what "flitch" truly is, but thank you for the correct definition.
I hate to sound condemning also but it also annoys the hell out of me when someone tries sound more intelligent by trying lead others to believe what they want to think is a, let's say,....a weaker side of someone that is just giving their opinion on a subject.
 
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no deflection?

no deflection is impossible unless the cue weighs less than the cueball itself...then it might get close to zero...JS
 
sun526 said:
Yes, figure in maple whether it be blister, quilt, flame, flitch, birdseye. and especially spalted are diseased maple.
Click to expand...

That sounds pretty much like a definitive statement to me.
If you want to pass it off as fact, you should be able to substantiate
your claim. So....can you prove it?
 
Right....it is just what I have read and been taught from several lumber men, very experienced luthiers and what I have read in several periodicals. I am not an arborist, nor am I scientist. I did not not post that to say That it was the "gospel". So let me say "In my opinion from what I have experienced and been trained in the craft of building and repairing stringed instrument for 17 yrs, that figured in wood comes from a disease in the tree. Especially, spalt in maple and pink figuration and grain in box elder". I think that should cover it. You know maybe I should have abnormalities in the the wood instead of disease in the wood. As that would be more appropriate.
 
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