Official 14.1 High Runs
- Thread starter Mr441
- Start date
PoolBum said:
This is impressive. It may be the only run over 300 on a 10' table.
High Runs - "Babe" Cranfield
If we allow unofficial runs then Cranfield's 768 has to be near the top. It was witnessed by a few respected observers, including "Cue Ball" Kelly who used to referee the 14.1 World championships. THis run was quoted in Billiards Digest when he passed away, so some people believe it.
I only saw him play in person a few times but every time he was playing straight pool he ran at least 100. I also saw the end ( last 40 or 50 balls) of a 350 run with a crowd around the table. These were all done in a room in Matydale, NY, just north of Syracuse, in 1963 or 1964.
He also had 4 100 ball runs in his 1200 point challenge match against Lassiter for the World Championship in 1964.
Laurence S. Moy who co-authored his two books may have more information.
If we allow unofficial runs then Cranfield's 768 has to be near the top. It was witnessed by a few respected observers, including "Cue Ball" Kelly who used to referee the 14.1 World championships. THis run was quoted in Billiards Digest when he passed away, so some people believe it.
I only saw him play in person a few times but every time he was playing straight pool he ran at least 100. I also saw the end ( last 40 or 50 balls) of a 350 run with a crowd around the table. These were all done in a room in Matydale, NY, just north of Syracuse, in 1963 or 1964.
He also had 4 100 ball runs in his 1200 point challenge match against Lassiter for the World Championship in 1964.
Laurence S. Moy who co-authored his two books may have more information.
poolshark52 said:
Pat! It's Chris Turk. I've been trying for months to get in touch with you. I don't know if you still check in here but if you do, say hi. I come to Florida for work quite a bit and might be moving to Tampa soon. Let me know if you're around and I'll be glad to stop by next time I'm there.
Guys, I had the extreme honor to get to know Poolshark52 years ago when I was just learning to play. He was about the best straight pool player I've ever been blessed to watch. While I also have watched Mike Siegel and many of the best play, Poolshark52 played patterns as beautifully as anyone. He might not be playing like he used to but I'd be more than happy to rack for this guy any day. It's always been an honor to tell people I learned from watching him play.
By the way, the stories I could tell of this guy....
NYC cue dude
Banned
what a great old thread.
About George mikula, he was one of the greatest pool talents I have ever seen. A crumudgeon for sure. He was always nice to me and would always take the time to both play and teach me. Drinking became George's life story.
He died after falling down a flight of stairs. He is responsible in part to ginky's tremendous straight pool game and also Jonathan smith's game too.
He and ervilino traveled in the same exact circles and I got the sense George didnt like him. Johnny was a notorious gambler, George was not. During the day, George could be found either sleeping on a pool table, or propped up, passed out on a bench near the stairs.
George had a unique way of teaching, and as he would run balls, without stopping to "instruct" he would tell me his pattern or what his next ball after the present shot would be. This is how he taught me pattern play. Jonathan smith, who recently competed at the 14.1 wc, has carried on that teaching legacy with me. Not many advanced players can be bothered to talk and teach while playing
Rg
About George mikula, he was one of the greatest pool talents I have ever seen. A crumudgeon for sure. He was always nice to me and would always take the time to both play and teach me. Drinking became George's life story.
He died after falling down a flight of stairs. He is responsible in part to ginky's tremendous straight pool game and also Jonathan smith's game too.
He and ervilino traveled in the same exact circles and I got the sense George didnt like him. Johnny was a notorious gambler, George was not. During the day, George could be found either sleeping on a pool table, or propped up, passed out on a bench near the stairs.
George had a unique way of teaching, and as he would run balls, without stopping to "instruct" he would tell me his pattern or what his next ball after the present shot would be. This is how he taught me pattern play. Jonathan smith, who recently competed at the 14.1 wc, has carried on that teaching legacy with me. Not many advanced players can be bothered to talk and teach while playing
Rg
Mikula vs Ervolino
Hi,
After reading NYC Cue Dude's post I couldn't help but respond.
Firstly, thank you RG for your kind words.
George Mikula was the most generous world class player I have ever played. He would play and teach anyone he liked and never took a nickel. He had the uncommon ability to talk as he played straight pool. He would have a conversation with the balls. If you listened it was a trip to the Oracle.
When I got to be able to run more than a few racks George would talk to the balls while I was playing. I would listen and after some time I would know what the balls and George were going to say next. George would smile and enjoy my success.
Johnny Ervolino was of the school of hard knocks and tough love. He would make you pay and when you started to play well against him he would shark you. His timing for pounding the butt of his stick on the floor as you hit the cue ball rivaled the greats composer down the street at Carnegie Hall. But again, as with George, after a while he would be pleased with your progress.
To give you some idea of just how good Gorge was, Johnny wouldn't play George on a bucket and George wouldn't play Johnny on a tight table.
JS
Hi,
After reading NYC Cue Dude's post I couldn't help but respond.
Firstly, thank you RG for your kind words.
George Mikula was the most generous world class player I have ever played. He would play and teach anyone he liked and never took a nickel. He had the uncommon ability to talk as he played straight pool. He would have a conversation with the balls. If you listened it was a trip to the Oracle.
When I got to be able to run more than a few racks George would talk to the balls while I was playing. I would listen and after some time I would know what the balls and George were going to say next. George would smile and enjoy my success.
Johnny Ervolino was of the school of hard knocks and tough love. He would make you pay and when you started to play well against him he would shark you. His timing for pounding the butt of his stick on the floor as you hit the cue ball rivaled the greats composer down the street at Carnegie Hall. But again, as with George, after a while he would be pleased with your progress.
To give you some idea of just how good Gorge was, Johnny wouldn't play George on a bucket and George wouldn't play Johnny on a tight table.
JS
I remember stopping in to Chelsea's and watching Geo Makula run 240something. I had seen lots of 100's & 150's and such from Pat Howey and a few others, but had never seen a run that high. I was quite impressed.
Frankly, I only remember seeing one other run in the 200's and the was Sigel practicing, running 15 racks and stopping 'cause as he said, "that's enough."
Obviously if more guys played straight pool, you'd see higher runs. The better players I ever played only went to 100, 125 or 150, so that's all you got to see them run. They stopped when the game was over and it was a rare occasion they didn't.
Frankly, I only remember seeing one other run in the 200's and the was Sigel practicing, running 15 racks and stopping 'cause as he said, "that's enough."
Obviously if more guys played straight pool, you'd see higher runs. The better players I ever played only went to 100, 125 or 150, so that's all you got to see them run. They stopped when the game was over and it was a rare occasion they didn't.
He claimed a long run of about 720, Bud, and his co-author says that is perfectly credible. (Ohio's Tom Parker claimed a 642.) The reason that these and Eufemia's long run are not officially recognized is that no one witnessed them from beginning to end except for the player himself. And Charlie Ursitti reports that when the late Willie Mosconi was preparing for a CBS-TV competition in the late '70s - when he was in his mid-60s himself - he ran 42 racks and made the break shot for the 43rd, then quit to go to dinner! (That's 589, with the balls open.) Ursitti quotes Mosconi as saying, "See, it's no big deal to run 600 balls. GF
I know someone who witnessed Mike Eufemias run,he said it was done with a Le Pro tip.
Thank you everyone for these stories... being relatively new to pool, the history of the game is all news to me, and I am constantly floored by this game's glorious history.
Just a quick question... if today's best played 14.1 as their main game, in your opinions, would any of these old records still be intact?
Just a quick question... if today's best played 14.1 as their main game, in your opinions, would any of these old records still be intact?
CTYankee said:
There is no answer to this question due to the fact that none
of these records are 'real' records as defined in other sports/games.
Only the tournament high run stats are truly official,
Mosconi's accomplishment being reconized by Brunswick
gave it the only air of legitemacy there was in those days.
The max run-out has already been done, with the exception
of 'special' circumstances where a player can run more than the
game winning amount, but how much more does running 152-and-out
mean than running 150? - nothing, to my way of thinking.
if you do a forum search on 'Mosconi high run'
there is tons of data and opinions.
Dale
CTYankee said:
Run 526 on todays equipment. Good luck!
You could put the four best players in a room with four Diamond tables and let them shoot all day for a month, and I would bet no one will come close.
I agree with Jay, the Brunswick pockets back then were buckets and soft. I the equipment were the same today, and the players played straight pool, the records would be broken. Especially if the popularity of the game was such that the top pro's did many exhibitions. (ie - more chances)
Whenever I get to 60-80ish on a run, the balls look huge and you feel like you can't miss. But imagine what they look like when you're on 300? Like basketballs! lol I wonder how those guys concentrated for so long?
Donald
Whenever I get to 60-80ish on a run, the balls look huge and you feel like you can't miss. But imagine what they look like when you're on 300? Like basketballs! lol I wonder how those guys concentrated for so long?
Donald
cmssuits said:
No, as a matter of fact they weren't. It wasn't till the 60s and
Gold Crowns that Bruns opened up the pockets. More important than
pocket size is the geometry, I practice on a table cut like the
Bruns of the 50s and it spits balls back at you like a spoiled 2 year old.
If you know how to play the cut of the pocket on a standard
Diamond, not the one with super small pockets, the pockets are much easier than the tables of the 40s and 50s
Dale
