Ron Vitello has convinced a skeptic

JMS said:

Today I got my first ever pool lesson, and it was with Ron Vitello. Like many people on this forum I was skeptical about aiming systems but not ignorant. I don't post things claiming it doesn't work if I've never been instructed on them, but for the longest time I just couldn't believe it could work. I'm not gonna go into a lot of detail about the sytem. The only thing I'm going to say about is that you pivot with your hip while at the same time keeping your alignement like Dave (SpyderWebbCom) has stated in his video. You don't move your backhand for the pivot. If Patrick Johnson bets against RonV I got $1000 on Ron.

Ron had me making extreme cuts that I would normally play safe or bank. I wasn't even looking at the pocket at all!!! I know with just a little bit of practice I am going to become a great shotmaker. Ron also has the BEST WAY to shot with inside english. That information right there was worth the money I paid Ron today. Ron has the best banking and kicking systems that I've seen. I hit every 2 and 3 rail kicks that he set up for me. The only problem kick I had was the 1 rail kick believe it or not. But RonV noticed that I always lined up left of center. I never knew that I did that, (so thats where the unintentional spin I get comes from). Overall I feel I improved already. Ron makes the game so much easier. I am definately going back to see him. If your skeptical like I was give Ron a call you won't be sorry. Get a lesson in person if you can. I guarentee at the end of your lesson you'll be walking out of the pool hall with a big grin on your face. Thanks Ron, I'll see you soon.

THE ONLY REGRET I HAVE IS THAT I WAITED 3 YRS TO GET A LESSON FROM RON. JUST THINKING ABOUT THAT MAKES ME GET MAD AT MYSELF, WHO KNOWS WHAT LEVEL I WOULD BE AT RIGHT NOW!

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I felt the same way after my first lesson. He fills in so many gaps. Aiming is just part of what he does. He revolutionized my kicking, banking and breaking.

JMS said:

THE ONLY REGRET I HAVE IS THAT I WAITED 3 YRS TO GET A LESSON FROM RON. JUST THINKING ABOUT THAT MAKES ME GET MAD AT MYSELF, WHO KNOWS WHAT LEVEL I WOULD BE AT RIGHT NOW!

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he just helped you shorten your learning curve. guys like ronv are hard to come by. ron is full of knowledge about this game. he learned from the best and has taught some of the top players in the world. he gives lessons over the phone for free and refunds your money for in person lessons if you aren't satisfied. the man is a class act. i wish there were more ronvs out there.

eezbank said:

he just helped you shorten your learning curve. guys like ronv are hard to come by. ron is full of knowledge about this game. he learned from the best and has taught some of the top players in the world. he gives lessons over the phone for free and refunds your money for in person lessons if you aren't satisfied. the man is a class act. i wish there were more ronvs out there.

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Exactly. Ron has so much knowledge that he loves to share. After the first time I met Ron, I left the pool room feeling like I found a million dollars on the ground.

I, personally feel lucky to know Ron and have a wealth of knowledge at my finger tips at all times.

Thanks for sharing, buddy!

JMS said:

The only thing I'm going to say about is that you pivot with your hip while at the same time keeping your alignement like Dave (SpyderWebbCom) has stated in his video. You don't move your backhand for the pivot.

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This is why the internet forums suck for things like this. It gets us further confused. Dave said the bridge doesn't move. You say you don't move your backhand for the pivot. You also say you pivot "with your hip." Obviously, to those of us who can't see what you're doing, you've described something impossible. In a pivoting rigid body, two distinct and discrete points cannot stay stationary during the pivot.

So, I (and a whole slew of reasonable people) am missing something simple and obvious. So, I'll direct this to you and only you. When you "pivot with your hip" does your bridge hand stay still? Or does it move? Do your hips move at all?

To me, if you keep your bridge hand still, and pivot with anything else, it's backhand english. If you keep the center of your hips the same, and pivot everything else, that the same as front hand english. But, apparently, it's not that simple because nobody seems to want to agree to those statements.

So, seeing would be the only way. I mean, when you get someone like me who knows a lot of systems pretty in depth and is a proponent of the various non-geometric systems, and am still confused at what the recent onslaught of aiming threads are talking about, that's pretty bad. It's almost like after all these years that we've come to some resolution at least on the definitions of pivoting, it almost sounds like you guys have some other kind of pivoting.

If Patrick Johnson bets against RonV I got $1000 on Ron.
!

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I reallly don't get this at all. I doubt anyone could agree on what was being bet on. I doubt PJ was betting on anything other than the ability to describe a system on the internet.

Fred <~~~ these thread suck for everyone.

Fred-

You caught one there... I read it so fast, I didn't catch it.

Everything moves but the bridge.

I don't wanna get into it in too much detail because I'm wore out from the other thread..... you did catch a bad sentence there, but I don't think he tried it.

The next time there's a TAR event and I'm nearby, I'll do a little demo for the world. PJ was betting you couldn't hit an object ball from 30+ " on a 90/90 alignment with a static bridge once your tip meets center ball (post pivot).

Dave

JMS said:

My bad Dave, your absouloutly right, I didn't mean to write that. Thats why everyone should see RonV or call him. Its hard to describe what to do, especially since I didn't invent this stuff. I just know what to do now. So stop reading these posts and call the man himself and you won't be confused anymore. I wasn't trying to desrcibe the system to you I just wanted to share my great experience with RonV. That man will show you things you would not believe.

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I knew what you meant. You meant your shoulder, upper torso, back arm, forearm and wrist move in one unit and not independent (i.e. not moving).

I think everyone by now knows what kind of treasure Ron Vitello is. If someone thinks they know everything, hang with RonV one time. That's all I have to say.

Cornerman said:

This is why the internet forums suck for things like this. It gets us further confused. Dave said the bridge doesn't move. You say you don't move your backhand for the pivot. You also say you pivot "with your hip." Obviously, to those of us who can't see what you're doing, you've described something impossible. In a pivoting rigid body, two distinct and discrete points cannot stay stationary during the pivot.

So, I (and a whole slew of reasonable people) am missing something simple and obvious. So, I'll direct this to you and only you. When you "pivot with your hip" does your bridge hand stay still? Or does it move? Do your hips move at all?

To me, if you keep your bridge hand still, and pivot with anything else, it's backhand english. If you keep the center of your hips the same, and pivot everything else, that the same as front hand english. But, apparently, it's not that simple because nobody seems to want to agree to those statements.

So, seeing would be the only way. I mean, when you get someone like me who knows a lot of systems pretty in depth and is a proponent of the various non-geometric systems, and am still confused at what the recent onslaught of aiming threads are talking about, that's pretty bad. It's almost like after all these years that we've come to some resolution at least on the definitions of pivoting, it almost sounds like you guys have some other kind of pivoting.



I reallly don't get this at all. I doubt anyone could agree on what was being bet on. I doubt PJ was betting on anything other than the ability to describe a system on the internet.

Fred <~~~ these thread suck for everyone.

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Finally, a statement we all concur with.

Cornerman said:

Fred <~~~ these thread suck for everyone.

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Fred, I agree for three reasons.
1. Too much info is not forthcoming in deference to Hal, et al. C'est la vie.
2. These threads would be much improved if posters knew what they were actually doing physically with their alignments and strokes and could accurately describe it. It seems to me that the systems people can't do this too well at all.
3. The last step of the shot process is always omitted.
"Now subtly, perhaps even subconsciously, align/stroke it so the ball goes in the hole." :smile:

These would make it better for the geometrical crowd.
What would make it better for the system aimers?

Easy as 1 -2-3

Skeezicks said:

Fred, I agree for three reasons.
1. Too much info is not forthcoming in deference to Hal, et al. C'est la vie.
2. These threads would be much improved if posters knew what they were actually doing physically with their alignments and strokes and could accurately describe it. It seems to me that the systems people can't do this too well at all.
3. The last step of the shot process is always omitted.
"Now subtly, perhaps even subconsciously, align/stroke it so the ball goes in the hole." :smile:

These would make it better for the geometrical crowd.
What would make it better for the system aimers?

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It really amazes me that the people who are most interested in knowing precisely how RonV's system works, have not called him to spend time on the telephone with him or even God forbid, meet him in person.

If I am not mistaken he has offered his telephone number to anyone interested in his systems.

Why would people with so many questions about RonV's aiming systems, not invest their time getting their questions answered from the source?

If I am not mistaken, he has helped several AZBers with their game over the telephone.

JoeyA

JoeyA said:

It really amazes me that the people who are most interested in knowing precisely how RonV's system works, have not called him to spend time on the telephone with him or even God forbid, meet him in person.

If I am not mistaken he has offered his telephone number to anyone interested in his systems.

Why would people with so many questions about RonV's aiming systems, not invest their time getting their questions answered from the source?

If I am not mistaken, he has helped several AZBers with their game over the telephone.

JoeyA

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Joey, I think people just want to disagree. Instead of figuring out why something works, they want to figure out why it doesn't.

I've got a whole lot of emails and PMs from people thanking me for putting just half of this system up. Its working for people who need it. Regardless of the math involved, it works. There are things that most people do daily and do not understand exactly how they work. Like the computer you are reading this on... most do not understand everything involved in getting what I type, on your screen. But they use it.

I started driving when I was 16 years old, but to this day, I couldnt tell you how a transmission works. As long as its working, I dont care. Same is true with a system is pool. If its not broke, there is no need to fix it.

The thread I started got a lot of attention and maybe 4-5 people stepped up to argue about why it doesnt work, but I dont think any of them gave it a fair shake before saying it doesnt work.

But I think I helped more people than hurt. Like I said, Ive gotten emails
and PMs from all over the world asking me to explain the rest of the system because the little they have seen... they loved.

cleary said:

Joey, I think people just want to disagree. Instead of figuring out why something works, they want to figure out why it doesn't.

I've got a whole lot of emails and PMs from people thanking me for putting just half of this system up. Its working for people who need it. Regardless of the math involved, it works. There are things that most people do daily and do not understand exactly how they work. Like the computer you are reading this on... most do not understand everything involved in getting what I type, on your screen. But they use it.

I started driving when I was 16 years old, but to this day, I couldnt tell you how a transmission works. As long as its working, I dont care. Same is true with a system is pool. If its not broke, there is no need to fix it.

The thread I started got a lot of attention and maybe 4-5 people stepped up to argue about why it doesnt work, but I dont think any of them gave it a fair shake before saying it doesnt work.

But I think I helped more people than hurt. Like I said, Ive gotten emails
and PMs from all over the world asking me to explain the rest of the system because the little they have seen... they loved.

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Some of us did test the advice you kindly provided and it just didn't work.

If you told me to push the accelerator and my car slowed down, I'd ask for more information.

Kudos to you presenting information that seemed useful to some. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for all. It's human nature to enquire why?

Colin

Colin Colenso said:

Some of us did test the advice you kindly provided and it just didn't work.

If you told me to push the accelerator and my car slowed down, I'd ask for more information.

Kudos to you presenting information that seemed useful to some. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for all. It's human nature to enquire why?

Colin

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Colin,
I know you are in Australia and don't expect you to call RonV for a long distance conversation about his systems but the rest of the inquiring minds SHOULD CALL HIM and attempt to have similar positive results as the other individuals who claim success.

The reason may or not be as simple as the system gets the individuals in the ball park and the eyes, brain and muscles take over from there. I think it may be more than this but my experience is limited.

This squabbling and name calling and condescension is the result of not inquiring and learning from the source. Too many questions and not enough answers...

I'm starting to wonder if some of the AZBers are right and that inquiring minds simply want to win debate arguments and prove why something doesn't work or doesn't work the way people say it works.

The truth is that people are using RonV's systems (and other aiming systems) and having postive results.

If the inquiring minds won't go to the source of the information and learn there, then it's becoming more apparent that this is just a game being played at the expense of and to the detriment of AZ Billiards.

JoeyA

Colin,

I think I already mentioned this in many of my posts in the other thread.....you guys will not have an answer. You are trying to proving something geometrically perfect in theory when the geometric system doesn't work in real life. Theory vs Reality....PJ and Yourself are basing your assumptions that your geometric model work in real life..but it doesn't so how are you guy ever going to answer your own questions when you can't even acknowledge this fact.

Here's an answer for your guys...the hand bridge is fixed but the pivot on your closed or open bridge changes. If this mean to you that the bridge hand moved....well news for you...it never going to be stationary or perfectly still like in your theory. Technically, your bridge is never stationary especially when you are shooting...it move very slightly. However, for us guys in this real realm it's fixed. In your perfect realm...maybe it's a different story. . Man, how can you guys account for all these unknown elements (force, pressure of your hand on table, cue variables, sweat, mindset, etc,etc, that are not factored in your perfect little geometric explanation.

It's really hard and next to impossible to use theorize system or concept to account for human activities (real situation)....scientific explanation has it place in this world and it amazing but for pool I think we should just stick with the real world because what your geometric formula is telling you is that everything needs to be perfect for your formula to be correct. A perfect system based on derived formulas will not work in real life for a number of reason. I remember learning the clock system from little Joe but than an old hustler tells me to is good to know the system but you have to account for variable that a perfect system can not foresee.

An example is with diamond system: If you shoot the three rails shot to the corner pocket...depending on the table or condition (humind, etc)..each table will have two different set of results. The formula and diagram for this shot is perfect...but in real life it's not. That's why...PLAYERS..who play for money always has to check if the table play short or long...so they will know how to adjust for the condition of the table. This is a real gem..for those who play for money. LOL!! Paul Thornley ...for those who don't know him (Alex P. mentor)..is out of Toronto,Canada and is also one of most knowledgeable trainer and player in Canada tells me this.

There is a definite different in the two pivot techniques? But somehow, you guys just can seem to acknowledge the different. I think the best thing for us to do is move on with this boring and tired argument...you guys are right in your world and we're right in the real world and just leave it at that.

If you did try this technique and it doesn't work...than it's time to consult with Ron on why and what you are guys are doing wrong. One other thing..the main reason for the hip pivot is because the BH movement will hit your body so you can't make some shots if you do not move your body. This is also the reason why some technique ask the player to move their bridge hand to compensate for this fact. Ron technique keep your bridge hand in place and give your the correct alignment for the line of aim. If you are not moving your body properly...then your alignment will be off and it won't work. After the body shift, you should be comfortable if done right...not awkward. Hope this help guys.

Regards,
Duc.

PS. Yeah Ron..got too much info in his head. He wish he could play like me though LOL...well I probably won't play back pocket nine ball with this man..(some of the shots he makes are sick!!) Heck of a nice fella...a great trainer. His lessons are definitely worth the money..plus some.

Colin Colenso said:

Some of us did test the advice you kindly provided and it just didn't work.

If you told me to push the accelerator and my car slowed down, I'd ask for more information.

Kudos to you presenting information that seemed useful to some. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for all. It's human nature to enquire why?

Colin

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Not sure what his system is or the reason for the pivot. I have played around with aiming lots and know that some pivots work. I.e. Line OB to corner and then aim full ball CB at that contact spot. Lets say that spot is a half ball hit. While aiming your cue at full ball CB and straight at contact point pivot on your bridge hand by moving your ass and back hand. You want to move until your cue tip is pointing at outside half ball. where ever the contact point is on the OB you want your cue pointing at the same spot on the CB. This works for some shots, but not all! You always need to use out side english for all the shots.

cleary said:

The thread I started got a lot of attention and maybe 4-5 people stepped up to argue about why it doesnt work, but I dont think any of them gave it a fair shake before saying it doesnt work. .

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The thread you started was a good one and was rolling along just fine until the bet came along. It just got sidetracked because of the video, the arguing and the bet between Dave and Patrick. The arguing and bet really should have gone to another thread, since Ron's system wasn't the topic of the debate at all, but I guess it happened because of the growing discord between Patrick and Dave finally reaching its breaking point. Fortunately, that's all over, and we can get back to the system at hand.

bluepepper said:

The thread you started was a good one and was rolling along just fine until the bet came along. It just got sidetracked because of the video, the arguing and the bet between Dave and Patrick. The arguing and bet really should have gone to another thread, since Ron's system wasn't the topic of the debate at all, but I guess it happened because of the growing discord between Patrick and Dave finally reaching its breaking point. Fortunately, that's all over, and we can get back to the system at hand.

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Ron Vitello's 90/90 Pivot system is IMO the best aiming system out there..CTE, ETE an Pro One all have too many adjustments for different shots. I have seen everything out there for CTE, ETE and Pro One and they are all lacking something or too many reference points that 90/90 has built in. When 90/90 is put on DVD, that will be the advanced system serious players will go to. And Ron V's Diamond system and banking and kicking systems are legendary and used by MANY pro's..far too many to list. People travel from all over the world to come to NYC and get "coached" by Ron. He is the Hank Haney and Butch Harmon of Billiard Instructors.

There no adjustment with Hals system. One shot all day all night. Ronnie is good to I got this lesson with 100 of you watching SBE few years ago. I didn't miss for about an hour or so. Hal system is better with the ability to use back hand English.